Villanova football invited to Big East

[BDKJMU]

Just one thought in regard to the "saving basketball by moving up football notion." A lot of folks in this thread have questioned how does moving up football "save" 'Nova's basketball program. Especially when considering that if current Big East football powers like WVU and Pitt leave. I believe the best answer is that by having 'Nova football up to the FBS/BCS level it puts 'Nova overall in a position of strength.

All of the expansion revolves around football. So even if the Big East falls apart, 'Nova can then market itself to other conferences as a full athletic program with great basketball tradition. Not just a basketball program with great tradition. This will better position to 'Nova to make a lateral move instead of having to "go down." (See Charlotte going from C-USA to the A-10 as an example.) In the mean time 'Nova gets to use the Big East to subsidize its transition to FBS/BCS football. If in a few years the Big East falls apart, 'Nova now has a FBS/BCS program bought and paid for.

Just my 2 cents.

It would take tens of millions of $ for Nova to move up (44 more schollies a year (22 FB, 22 womens'), 4? more FB coaches a yr, several more women's sports coaches a year, a massive amount of $ spent on facilities, etc.

These 8 other Big East football schools just going to pony up tens of millions out of their own budgets?

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Just one thought in regard to the "saving basketball by moving up football notion." A lot of folks in this thread have questioned how does moving up football "save" 'Nova's basketball program. Especially when considering that if current Big East football powers like WVU and Pitt leave. I believe the best answer is that by having 'Nova football up to the FBS/BCS level it puts 'Nova overall in a position of strength.

All of the expansion revolves around football. So even if the Big East falls apart, 'Nova can then market itself to other conferences as a full athletic program with great basketball tradition. Not just a basketball program with great tradition. This will better position to 'Nova to make a lateral move instead of having to "go down." (See Charlotte going from C-USA to the A-10 as an example.) In the mean time 'Nova gets to use the Big East to subsidize its transition to FBS/BCS football. If in a few years the Big East falls apart, 'Nova now has a FBS/BCS program bought and paid for.

Just my 2 cents.

It would take tens of millions of $ for Nova to move up (44 more schollies a year (22 FB, 22 womens'), 4? more FB coaches a yr, several more women's sports coaches a year, a massive amount of $ spent on facilities, etc.

These 8 other Big East football schools just going to pony up tens of millions out of their own budgets?

I guess so. Isn't that what the Big East proposal consists of?

[GA St. MBB Fan]

It would take tens of millions of $ for Nova to move up (44 more schollies a year (22 FB, 22 womens'), 4? more FB coaches a yr, several more women's sports coaches a year, a massive amount of $ spent on facilities, etc.

These 8 other Big East football schools just going to pony up tens of millions out of their own budgets?

I guess so. Isn't that what the Big East proposal consists of?

I remember reading something that said the Big East would help fund the transition to FBS for Villanova or something of that matter. I did a search however, and all I could find was this:

To help offset Villanova's transition costs, sources said one way the Big East could help is to schedule home games against the Wildcats that would include guaranteed payouts.

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/201 ... z133WZG6zZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I don't know...if it'll be enough...but you add in money from their distribution of Bowl Money...and they might have it.

[GannonFan]

I guess so. Isn't that what the Big East proposal consists of?

I remember reading something that said the Big East would help fund the transition to FBS for Villanova or something of that matter. I did a search however, and all I could find was this:

To help offset Villanova's transition costs, sources said one way the Big East could help is to schedule home games against the Wildcats that would include guaranteed payouts.

Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/201 ... z133WZG6zZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So I don't know...if it'll be enough...but you add in money from their distribution of Bowl Money...and they might have it.

And that's the thing - they'll be given the money to get by initially, but long term, will nova football generate enough money on their own to be sustainable, especially if their ultimate destination is some division in the ACC if the Big East gets poached and falls away. Being a ward of the Big East while the Big East tries to survive is one thing, being a viable, self-sufficient, pulling your own weight member of a solid conference later is something else entirely.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

I remember reading something that said the Big East would help fund the transition to FBS for Villanova or something of that matter. I did a search however, and all I could find was this:


So I don't know...if it'll be enough...but you add in money from their distribution of Bowl Money...and they might have it.

And that's the thing - they'll be given the money to get by initially, but long term, will nova football generate enough money on their own to be sustainable, especially if their ultimate destination is some division in the ACC if the Big East gets poached and falls away. Being a ward of the Big East while the Big East tries to survive is one thing, being a viable, self-sufficient, pulling your own weight member of a solid conference later is something else entirely.

I guess it just depends then on how long the Big East can stay together. If 'Nova joins in 2014 and the Big East stays together only for a year or two longer...then yeah 'Nova will have problems. But if 'Nova joins in 2014 and the Big East stays together longer...maybe 3 to 5 years...then by then maybe 'Nova could have built support that will have allowed it to be a viable, self-sufficient, pulling your own weight member of a future conference.

[GannonFan]

And that's the thing - they'll be given the money to get by initially, but long term, will nova football generate enough money on their own to be sustainable, especially if their ultimate destination is some division in the ACC if the Big East gets poached and falls away. Being a ward of the Big East while the Big East tries to survive is one thing, being a viable, self-sufficient, pulling your own weight member of a solid conference later is something else entirely.

I guess it just depends then on how long the Big East can stay together. If 'Nova joins in 2014 and the Big East stays together only for a year or two longer...then yeah 'Nova will have problems. But if 'Nova joins in 2014 and the Big East stays together longer...maybe 3 to 5 years...then by then maybe 'Nova could have built support that will have allowed it to be a viable, self-sufficient, pulling your own weight member of a future conference.

And that's the crux of this whole argument - nova's ability to build such support. Read through the whole thread, there's plenty of reasons to surmise that they won't be able to do that (tough market, limited fanbase, no place to call home, etc).

[jstclmet]

[quote="GannonFan] And that's the crux of this whole argument - nova's ability to build such support. Read through the whole thread, there's plenty of reasons to surmise that they won't be able to do that (tough market, limited fanbase, no place to call home, etc).[/quote]

How's this for an option?? Since you and others (mostly UD, well maybe all UD fans) have a problem with where we play our home games, how bout we use the "TUB"?? Do you think we could fill it?? Of course, UD would have their 6 home games on the dates of their choosing as a first priority, and the Big East and Nova could schedule 5 or 6 Mondays/Thursdays/Saturdays around UD's schedule. It's been mentioned that PPL is not big enough, and we would not be welcomed at the LINC, and FF is too old, and the Phillies are still playing @ CBP through Oct/Nov.

But the TUB has some open dates that would fit just fine in a BE schedule. Afterall, after UD was snowed in at UNI in 07, Nova did allow UD to use the Nova facilites for film study and some other playoff preparation. Seems only fair.

Hopefully you can see I'm just kidding.

I would think UD fans would be supportive of Nova jumping to FBS. I know your coaching staff is hoping we go, so the domino can fall in UD land, and UD can follow. As has been said before, the landscape of College football is changing.

[GannonFan]

[quote="GannonFan] And that's the crux of this whole argument - nova's ability to build such support. Read through the whole thread, there's plenty of reasons to surmise that they won't be able to do that (tough market, limited fanbase, no place to call home, etc).

How's this for an option?? Since you and others (mostly UD, well maybe all UD fans) have a problem with where we play our home games, how bout we use the "TUB"?? Do you think we could fill it?? Of course, UD would have their 6 home games on the dates of their choosing as a first priority, and the Big East and Nova could schedule 5 or 6 Mondays/Thursdays/Saturdays around UD's schedule. It's been mentioned that PPL is not big enough, and we would not be welcomed at the LINC, and FF is too old, and the Phillies are still playing @ CBP through Oct/Nov.

But the TUB has some open dates that would fit just fine in a BE schedule. Afterall, after UD was snowed in at UNI in 07, Nova did allow UD to use the Nova facilites for film study and some other playoff preparation. Seems only fair.

Hopefully you can see I'm just kidding.

I would think UD fans would be supportive of Nova jumping to FBS. I know your coaching staff is hoping we go, so the domino can fall in UD land, and UD can follow. As has been said before, the landscape of College football is changing.[/quote][/quote]

Hey, I only comment since I'm a Philly sports fan, have a nova alum for a wife, live closer to nova than I do Delaware, and probably have just as much, if not more feel for the subject than many nova fans on here.

As to if they move, it doesn't affect me one bit. I'll still likely drive by whatever venue they're playing in on my way to UD games in the Fall. And really, it has just a minor impact on where UD plays in the future - nova's move isn't going to tip the scales of the college football landscape one way or the other, and if and when UD is faced with a college landscape that does change significantly when the big BCS conferences move, what nova does or doesn't do now won't impact where UD goes. nova is just one domino of a lot of other, bigger ones.

[putter]

I think Nova has the best opportunity. They get to move directly into a BCS conference...with the potential for BCS money! Compare that to Montana....they are being courted to the WAC. A WAC WITHOUT Boise. Nevada. And Fresno so no BCS money, very little TV money with the big 3 gone. Yes Montana has better FB facilities and fan following but I would take Nova's situation in a heartbeat it I was seriously looking to move up.

[93henfan]

Another Philly Inquirer Q&A. The sources are ambiguous but the answers sound logical and well-informed. Not much new, but posting for the benefit of anyone interested. The article does say that Nova will likely play a CAA slate in 2011 regardless of their decision:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2 ... guys_.html

How can 'Nova play football with the big guys?

By Mike Jensen
Inquirer Staff Writer
Villanova honchos have an important decision on their plate - the future of their athletic programs. They are deciding whether to play Big East football, to move up from what used to be called Division I-AA, to move out of Villanova Stadium and find a bigger place for their ambitions.

Here are some questions and answers to consider as they finish up their assessment:

Question: Can Villanova be a big-time football school?

Answer: This decision isn't really about that. The smart guys know that this is a basketball decision as much as anything. Villanova doesn't want to be left on the outside if BCS schools break from the schools that don't play big-time football. That's the biggest issue here.

Q: Is the Big East big-time football?

A: Not from what we've seen on the field this year, not at all. But the quality of play isn't as important as the quality of the checks delivered and the likelihood that they will continue to be sent. As long as it is associated with the BCS, the Big East is big time.

Q: Will the Big East keep its BCS status?

A: That's the multimillion-dollar question for Villanova, one the school can't afford to be wrong about. The Big East can easily withstand losing a Rutgers to the Big Ten, but if the Big Ten does more poaching, grabbing two or three schools, and then the ACC grabs another couple of schools, Big East football could fall apart. Villanova would have spent a lot of money to go big time without actually ending up in the big time.

Q: Has the Big East been pressuring Villanova for an answer?

A: Not yet, we're told, but that pressure starts now, since the announcement earlier this month that the Big East is committed to expanding from eight to 10 football schools. Villanova makes sense for the league since it already plays in the Big East for all other sports. The league will quickly move on from 'Nova (possibly to Temple) if the answer is no. Villanova has a board of trustees meeting scheduled for December. As of now, there is not expected to be a formal vote about football at that meeting. Word from the Main Line is that Villanova might not have an answer until early next year. It will be interesting to see if the Big East waits that long.

Q: There have been some reports that Villanova has already told the Big East it is coming. True?

A: False. Villanova has made its interest clear and doesn't want the door closed. But it hasn't walked through the door yet or even telegraphed its entrance. The school is in what might be termed the "engagement of donors" phase of its fact-finding.

Q: Can Villanova make money playing Big East football?

A: That's not the right question. Villanova loses money now playing football in the Colonial Athletic Association at the Football Championship Series level, even as the defending national champion. The school spends almost $5 million, while taking in just $1 million in revenues. Expect the school to try to hit roughly that same mark right off the bat in the Big East, allowing for about a $4 million hit. The difference is that the school's spending will triple, but the TV and bowl shares would make up for it.

Q: What is the biggest expenditure?

A: Right off the bat, Villanova knows it can't keep housing the football offices underneath the stands at Villanova Stadium. It will need to build a facility for football like it did the Davis Center for basketball. If the Davis Center cost roughly $20 million, think more than $30 million for a football center, with offices, locker room, weight room, etc. That's outside of the yearly expenses.

Q: Any chance Villanova will upgrade Villanova Stadium for Big East play?

A: None.

Q: So what's the top stadium option?

A: There have been preliminary talks with PPL Park, the MLS facility in Chester. The fit would be fine for most games, since you can't expect a South Florida game to draw more than 18,000. But a game or two a year could go to Citizens Bank Park, Franklin Field, or the Linc.

Q: But the soccer team doesn't want football lines on its stadium. A deal-breaker?

A: An important issue but probably not a deal-breaker since lines can be scrubbed off.

Q: Is the entire Villanova community in favor of this move?

A: From what we hear, no. There are some influential figures who wonder what a Division I-A football culture would mean for the school.

Q: Would Villanova be content to be a bottom of the Big East football member?

A: That isn't the intent, obviously. The idea would be to be competitive, not just to get by.

Q: Is that a reasonable goal?

A: By adding 22 scholarships, it's a very reasonable goal. William and Mary from the Colonial was beating North Carolina two weeks ago but seemed to run out of gas. An extra 22 scholarships probably puts enough gas in the tank. The same could have been true in Villanova's game against a strong Temple team in this year's season opener. Andy Talley's Wildcats have skilled guys and some top-level linemen. They just need more of them.

Q: What are the Title IX ramifications?

A: In addition to adding 22 football scholarships, from 63 to the required 85, Villanova would be looking to add 22 scholarships to existing women's sports. However, existing programs should realize that down the road, if expenses need to be cut, it probably wouldn't be football taking the hits. At least that's the track record at other schools. West Virginia dropped a 98-year-old track program in 2003. This year, California-Berkeley announced that five sports would be dropped from intercollegiate status - three men's sports (baseball, gymnastics and rugby) and two women's sports (gymnastics and lacrosse).

Q: What's the timetable for a move to Big East football?

A: If the decision is made by very early in 2011, Villanova would stay in the Colonial for 2011, be a provisional Big East member for two years, then become a full member in 2014.

Q: How would Villanova try to make money during the transition?

A: By playing some big-time teams, getting guarantees of well over $1 million.

Q: If Villanova ends up in a basketball league with Georgetown and other schools that don't play big-time football, is that such a bad thing?

A: The fear is that the BCS leagues will gain more power in the years ahead. Real conspiracy theorists conjure up a split with the NCAA. But assuming that doesn't happen - that such a move would take the label of "amateurism" completely away - the BCS schools will call the shots and get most of the money. And if Villanova isn't competing with Louisville and Connecticut and Pittsburgh and others in basketball, it's reasonable to think it will be tougher to get to a Final Four even from a league with Georgetown, Providence, and Marquette and maybe a Xavier. The biggest-spending schools typically are the ones advancing in March.

Q: So what's the guess: Will Villanova make the move?

A: The guess is yes, that Villanova will not risk losing out on maybe its last chance to be big time in all sports. If Villanova could stop the clock right now - keeping its place in the Big East for basketball, playing one level down in football - with a guarantee that nothing would ever change, the school would not make this move. But that's not an option.

Q: Worst-case scenario, Villanova moves up, and Big East football falls apart after Villanova makes the upgrade. What then?

A: Villanova might make the case that it would be a perfect fit for the ACC. There's no reason to think the musical chairs will stop any time soon.

[henfan]

I'd question the anonymous writer's comments about CAA scheduling, since a verified source was not noted in the column. It should be treated as speculation until/unless a CAA official verifies.

Secondly, if VU announces reclassification prior to the 2011 season, would the NCAA not disqualify them from FCS playoff participation next season?

[89Hen]

Q: Worst-case scenario, Villanova moves up, and Big East football falls apart after Villanova makes the upgrade. What then?

A: Villanova might make the case that it would be a perfect fit for the ACC. There's no reason to think the musical chairs will stop any time soon.

The final question makes me question the validity of this whole thing.

[dbackjon]

The final question makes me question the validity of this whole thing.

As long as Villanova has great basketball teams, they would be attractive.

Plus, they could start the annual "our basketball teams outdraw our football teams" Cup with Duke

[89Hen]

The final question makes me question the validity of this whole thing.

As long as Villanova has great basketball teams, they would be attractive.

Who is the ACC kicking out?

[dbackjon]

As long as Villanova has great basketball teams, they would be attractive.

Who is the ACC kicking out?

Adding four teams

[GannonFan]

Considering that the only way that nova becomes viable for the Big East is by the Big East pretty much being a wet nurse for nova by means of completely funding the transition and financial losses, it begs the question why the ACC would do the same to carry nova along? The Big East would consider doing it as a last gasp way of preserving the conference - the ACC wouldn't be coming from such a similar point of weakness. The ACC cherrypicked what they saw as the best of the Big East before, especially from a football perspective. Why would they now pick what would appear to be the worst of the Big East from a football perspective?

It's seeming potentially possible now that nova will, amazingly, say no for a second and likely last time to the Big East. I certainly think nova would fail at the FBS level for a host of reasons (lack of stadium, fanbase, money, etc) but I never thought they would actually say no again. Apparently reality is being paid more attention to than dreaming at nova.

[mainejeff]

As long as Villanova has great basketball teams, they would be attractive.

Who is the ACC kicking out?

No one.......but they may leave on their own.

Possibilities:

Maryland to Big Ten
Clemson to SEC
Georgia Tech to SEC
Florida State to SEC
Miami to SEC

Don't shoot the messenger.......these have been well documented possibilities if the 16 team Super Conference scenario plays out.

[GannonFan]

Who is the ACC kicking out?

No one.......but they may leave on their own.

Possibilities:

Maryland to Big Ten
Clemson to SEC
Georgia Tech to SEC
Florida State to SEC
Miami to SEC

Don't shoot the messenger.......these have been well documented possibilities if the 16 team Super Conference scenario plays out.

But that assumes that the ACC would fall apart if the 16 team Super Conference came together, i.e. the Big 12 would remain. However, it's far more likely that the Big East and Big 12 are the casualties in a Super Conference scenario - those are easily the two weakest conferences in terms of finances. I don't think the ACC is going away anytime soon.

[mainejeff]

No one.......but they may leave on their own.

Possibilities:

Maryland to Big Ten
Clemson to SEC
Georgia Tech to SEC
Florida State to SEC
Miami to SEC

Don't shoot the messenger.......these have been well documented possibilities if the 16 team Super Conference scenario plays out.

But that assumes that the ACC would fall apart if the 16 team Super Conference came together, i.e. the Big 12 would remain. However, it's far more likely that the Big East and Big 12 are the casualties in a Super Conference scenario - those are easily the two weakest conferences in terms of finances. I don't think the ACC is going away anytime soon.

Agreed.......but they could certainly lose some of their current members.

They could also gain new members if some leave. Whomever the Big Ten does not take from the group of Syracuse, UConn, Pitt, Rutgers) have all been mentioned. Villanova with football becomes an attractive candidate to the ACC as well. Even ODU might be in the running by the time things actually go down.

[DKHardee]

Clemson to SEC
Georgia Tech to SEC
Florida State to SEC
Miami to SEC

would love to see that... IF or should I say WHEN the Super Conferences roll out.