Study: Pot Smoking Damages Brain Function

[Wedgebuster]

It's not the pot that's bad for you, it's the looking for pot that's bad for you.

[JohnStOnge]

And people who smoke cigarettes for 80 years and live to 100 doesn't mean cigarettes don't cause cancer.

Cancer is easier to study than intellect. If you still smoked you might be smart enough to understand.

Actually a cause and effect relationship between cigarette smoking and cancer hasn't been legitimately inferred either. Not if you stick to the rules. People get ridiculed for saying that but it's true. In the past I have quoted an explanation from a graduate level statistics textbook in using the idea that cigarette smoking "causes" cancer as an example of something one can't really say. The fact that people think it's been legitimately inferred that cigarette smoking "causes" cancer is perhaps the best example of how bad it's gotten with lack of discipline among scien-TISTS.

Don't get me wrong. There is a strong association between cigarette smoking and cancer and I personally believe that it does cause it. But a drug company would never be allowed to sell a drug and claim an effect based on a level of strength of evidence equivalent to the strength of evidence for the idea that cigarette smoking causes cancer. The reason is that one cannot legitimately infer cause and effect through statistical analysis of observational data and inferring cause and effect based on observational data is the cornerstone of the idea that cigarette smoking causes cancer. Again, if a drug company tried to claim a beneficial effect based on the type of evidence used to say cigarette smolking causes cancer that drug company would be prosecuted for making an unsubstantiated claim.

[JohnStOnge]

What the heck. Since I mentioned it this is a good place to paste in the discussion from the statistics textbook I referenced. I realize you may not want to take the time to read it. But it contains a pretty good discussion of what I"m talking about. Many fields, with environmental epidemiology being one of them, have totally lost sight of the subject restriction on what one can reasonably say on the basis of observational study. Note the the example used to illustrate the principle is that of the idea that cigarette smoking "causes" cancer and cardiovascular disease.

When you understand the concept articulated by the excerpt below, you understand how bad it's gotten with respect to public health zealots declaring health effects under circumstances in which cause and effect relationships have not really been shown.

Ott, R. Lyman (1992). An introduction to statistical methods and data analysis. Chapter 2. Belmont California: Duxbury Press.

Before leaving the subject of sample data collection, we will draw a distinction between an observational study and a scientific study. In experimental designs for scientific studies, the observation conditions are fixed or controlled. For example, with a factorial experiment laid off in a completely randomized design, an observation is made at each factor-level combination. Similarly, with a randomized block design, an observation is obtained on each treatment in every block. These “controlled” studies are very different from observational studies, which are sometimes used because it is not feasible to do a proper scientific study. This can be illustrated by way of example.

Much research and public interest centers on the effect of cigarette smoking on lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. One possible experimental design would be to randomized a fixed number of individuals (say 1,000) to each of two groups – one group would be required to smoke cigarettes for the duration of the study (say 10 years), while those in the second group would not be allowed to smoke throughout the study. At the end of the study, the two groups would be compared for lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. Even if we ignore the ethical questions, this type of study would be impossible to do. Because of the long duration, it would be difficult to follow all participants and make certain that they follow the study plan. And it would be difficult to find nonsmoking individuals willing to take the chance of being assigned to the smoking group.

Another possible study would be to sample a fixed number of smokers and a fixed number of nonsmokers to compare the groups for lung cancer and for cardiovascular disease. Assuming one could obtain willing groups of participants, this study could be done for a much shorter period of time.

What has been sacrificed? Well, the fundamental difference between an observational study and a scientific study lies in the inference(s) that can be drawn. For a scientific study comparing smokers to nonsmokers, assuming the two groups of individuals followed the study plan, the observed differences between the smoking and nonsmoking groups could be attributed to the effects of cigarette smoking because the individuals were randomized to the two groups; hence, the groups were assumed to be comparable at the outset.

This type of reasoning does not apply to the observational study of cigarette smoking. Differences between the two groups in the observation could not necessarily be attributed to the effects of cigarette smoking because, for example, there may be hereditary factors that predispose people to smoking and cancer of the lungs and/or cardiovascular disease. Thus, differences between the groups might be due to hereditary factors, smoking, or a combination of the two. Typically, the results of an observational study are reported by way of a statement of association. For our example, if the observational study showed a higher frequency of lung cancer and cardiovascular disease for smokers relative to nonsmokers, it would be stated that this study showed that cigarette smoking was associated with an increased frequency of lung cancer and cardiovascular disease. It is a careful rewording in order not to infer that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer and cardiovascular disease.

[AZGrizFan]

I know, Jon. Smoking doesn't CAUSE cancer. And drunk driving doesn't kill people. And fucking dogs is ok. And old enough to bleed, old enough to breed.

I have but one question for you: What fucking planet are you from?

[ming01]

I agree, T. However, doesn't everything "extracurricular" ruin brain function? Look at alcohol, it's much worse. And, cigarettes, fvck, how many man-made chemicals from Haliburton are in those things?

BTW: http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Give me a joint and a glass of wine at 7 pm, a couple episodes of Rockford Files and I'm all set for a quiet evening. The nation isn't going to turn into a bunch of potheads with legalization. Treat it like alcohol on the streets, legal age of 21, I'm for that.

Finally, T, you know you're a toker, so this is kinda disingenuous.

Agreed Capncat. Legalize marijuana. Alcohol is worse for us anyways. And for those of you who say "marijuana is a gateway drug", give me a break!

[Gil Dobie]

The only phenomenon associated with pot that's bad in my mind, is amotivational syndrome. It's real. You smoke for a long time and you don't want to do anything but sit around and take in the blessings of our Conk-led society.

First I believe pot should be legal, and I'm not an anti-smoking advocate either. Second, if you are smoking pot, it's not good for your lungs, and can cause paranoia and pannic attacks.

[bandl]

I know, Jon. Smoking doesn't CAUSE cancer. And drunk driving doesn't kill people. And fucking dogs is ok. And old enough to bleed, old enough to breed.

I have but one question for you: What fucking planet are you from?

You forgot to mention peanut butter though.

[bandl]

The only phenomenon associated with pot that's bad in my mind, is amotivational syndrome. It's real. You smoke for a long time and you don't want to do anything but sit around and take in the blessings of our Conk-led society.

First I believe pot should be legal, and I'm not an anti-smoking advocate either. Second, if you are smoking pot, it's not good for your lungs, and can cause paranoia and pannic attacks.

That all depends on the weed. I've bought weed in Amsterdam and asked specifically for the stuff that wouldn't make me paranoid, just mellow. They knew exactly what I was talking about and were happy to oblige.

[Gil Dobie]

First I believe pot should be legal, and I'm not an anti-smoking advocate either. Second, if you are smoking pot, it's not good for your lungs, and can cause paranoia and pannic attacks.

That all depends on the weed. I've bought weed in Amsterdam and asked specifically for the stuff that wouldn't make me paranoid, just mellow. They knew exactly what I was talking about and were happy to oblige.

So what flavors do, and what flavors don't cause paranoia?

[bandl]

That all depends on the weed. I've bought weed in Amsterdam and asked specifically for the stuff that wouldn't make me paranoid, just mellow. They knew exactly what I was talking about and were happy to oblige.

So what flavors do, and what flavors don't cause paranoia?

Couldn't tell ya to be honest, I was never THAT into it. I've actually never "bought" in this country (I was always the moocher ). But if friends were offering, I'd ask them if it was the paranoid strand, and if it was, then I would pass until the next time.

The first time I ever bought in Holland I said "I only smoke occasionally and I'd like to buy some weed, but I don't want to die". They knew exactly what I was talking about and gave me some really good stuff. There are some SERIOUSLY intense strands out there that pot mortals like myself should not mess with.

[Gil Dobie]

So what flavors do, and what flavors don't cause paranoia?

Couldn't tell ya to be honest, I was never THAT into it. I've actually never "bought" in this country (I was always the moocher ). But if friends were offering, I'd ask them if it was the paranoid strand, and if it was, then I would pass until the next time.

The first time I ever bought in Holland I said "I only smoke occasionally and I'd like to buy some weed, but I don't want to die". They knew exactly what I was talking about and gave me some really good stuff. There are some SERIOUSLY intense strands out there that pot mortals like myself should not mess with.

Regulating and labeling what you are getting is another good reason to legalize pot.

Don't want anything laced with PCP etc.

[bandl]

Couldn't tell ya to be honest, I was never THAT into it. I've actually never "bought" in this country (I was always the moocher ). But if friends were offering, I'd ask them if it was the paranoid strand, and if it was, then I would pass until the next time.

The first time I ever bought in Holland I said "I only smoke occasionally and I'd like to buy some weed, but I don't want to die". They knew exactly what I was talking about and gave me some really good stuff. There are some SERIOUSLY intense strands out there that pot mortals like myself should not mess with.

Regulating and labeling what you are getting is another good reason to legalize pot.

That's where I was going with this...

Although the dutch just announced that they will no longer be selling weed to tourists.
Won't stop me from visiting again though, I love that country.

[travelinman67]

That all depends on the weed. I've bought weed in Amsterdam and asked specifically for the stuff that wouldn't make me paranoid, just mellow. They knew exactly what I was talking about and were happy to oblige.

So what flavors do...cause paranoia?

The ones sold in Chicago.

[Appaholic]

Regulating and labeling what you are getting is another good reason to legalize pot.

That's where I was going with this...

Although the dutch just announced that they will no longer be selling weed to tourists.
Won't stop me from visiting again though, I love that country.

Excuse me? What are you taling about? If this is a joke, then it's cruel.....seriously....explain yourself....

[bandl]

That's where I was going with this...

Although the dutch just announced that they will no longer be selling weed to tourists.
Won't stop me from visiting again though, I love that country.

Excuse me? What are you taling about? If this is a joke, then it's cruel.....seriously....explain yourself....

What, you haven't read your latest subscription from 420 Magazine yet??

But fureal...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40238429/ns/travel-news/

You could always just befriend a local...

[JMU DJ]

Excuse me? What are you taling about? If this is a joke, then it's cruel.....seriously....explain yourself....

What, you haven't read your latest subscription from 420 Magazine yet??

But fureal...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40238429/ns/travel-news/

You could always just befriend a local...

...or you could just visit Portugal where every drug is legal.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


You could finally try to meet your dream lover Ronaldo.

[bandl]

What, you haven't read your latest subscription from 420 Magazine yet??

But fureal...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40238429/ns/travel-news/

You could always just befriend a local...

...or you could just visit Portugal where every drug is legal.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


You could finally try to meet your dream lover Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is a punk. Nani is twice the player.

Anyways, drugs are not legal in Portugal, it's just been decriminalized for users. Dealers can still be jailed/raped, etc.

[89Hen]

...or you could just visit Portugal where every drug is legal.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article ... 46,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange study by CATO. Are they really saying that once drugs were decriminalized and people were given treatment instead... "after personal possession was decriminalized, illegal drug use among teens in Portugal declined and rates of new HIV infections caused by sharing of dirty needles dropped, while the number of people seeking treatment for drug addiction more than doubled"

If it's no longer illegal and all you have to do is seek treatment, wouldn't illegal use decline and the number seeking treatment go up?

As for the HIV reduction... could it just be that more people realized that sharing needles put you at risk, so more people stopped sharing needles? I'm going to go out on a limb and say HIV cases because of dirty needles has gone down in countries where injected drugs are still illegal.

[JMU DJ]

Ronaldo is a punk. Nani is twice the player.

Anyways, drugs are not legal in Portugal, it's just been decriminalized for users. Dealers can still be jailed/raped, etc.

True on both accounts... and according to my Dutch colleague, you can still get "raped" if you get caught by the PoPo as a tourist doing drugs.



... and 89hen, I believe Portugal has a "Clean Needle" program they initiated when they decriminalized drug use... and as Tabitha mentioned, it's still illegal, just decriminalized. I misspoke.

[bandl]

Ronaldo is a punk. Nani is twice the player.

Anyways, drugs are not legal in Portugal, it's just been decriminalized for users. Dealers can still be jailed/raped, etc.

True on both accounts... and according to my Dutch colleague, you can still get "raped" if you get caught by the PoPo as a tourist doing drugs.



... and 89hen, I believe Portugal has a "Clean Needle" program the initiated when the decriminalized drug use... and as Tabitha mentioned, it's still illegal, just decriminalized. I misspoke.

Never thought that my conversation with a random bartender in Lisbon during a Sporting/Benfica match (I tried to attend, but it was sold out) about port wine and drugs in Portugal would actually come in hand one day. I had actually forgotten about that conversation entirely until now.

Which does remind me of the time that Merlin the Wizard sat next to me in a bar (not a coffee shop) in Delft and blazed himself to glory nonstop for 2 hours.

[Pwns]

Big deal. There are studies that show drinking fluoridated water can damage your brain over time. Alcohol has also been shown to weaken brain function over time as well. Should we ban those, too?

I would sooner smoke pot than use a lot of the psychiatric drugs on the market that folks are legally taking. And not to mention some analgesics like oxycontin that can have some worse side effects.

[CID1990]

Ridiculous. Pot doesn't affect brain function, in fact, marijuana actually sharpens some sens.... er... oooh! Look! Airplane!

[travelinman67]

Ridiculous. Pot doesn't affect brain function, in fact, marijuana actually sharpens some sens.... er... oooh! Look! Airplane!

"NEEEAAARRRR....ZOOOOMMMM!!!"

[native]

The only phenomenon associated with pot that's bad in my mind, is amotivational syndrome. It's real. You smoke for a long time and you don't want to do anything but sit around and take in the blessings of our Conk-led society.

Maybe it's not the only bad thing about pot, but amotivational syndrome is the worst, IMO.

[D1B]

Just read in my hometown paper the news about a 3-time DUI criminal who just killed a young boy while driving drunk. This tragedy happens in every community, every year. Everyone has a relative who is dying of alcoholism or has a severe alcohol problem.

That being said, it's sad Tman minimizes the true and horrific dangers of alcohol (his drug of choice) with these bs pieces on pot. No one has ever died of pot. I have at least 4 familiy members who have died of alcoholism.

Fuck you Tman, you alcoholic, pompous ass piece of conk shit.