Catholic Bishops: More Exorcists Needed... SMFH

[JoltinJoe]

I agree with your concept of God as "what is" 100%.

This is precisely the name God revealed in the Old Testament: "I am what is." "Yahweh."

Joe,
There are some cool things about making peace with that concept...
It allows for a huge measure of acceptance in my life - instead of resistance - just by coming to peace with that simple concept it allows me to experience happiness in almost any situation and be non-judgmental


Now of course I fail pretty regularly - but - I'm getting better at being in acceptance and in a state of peacefulness

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I think perhaps our outward expressions of this faith may be different, but at the core, we are experiencing the same peace which comes from accepting that there is something "That Is." When there are challenges in life, it helps to see them as something intended to test us and makes us a better, more sympathetic, or understanding person.

[JoltinJoe]

If God is just "what is" and the devil is just evil. What about heaven and hell and purgatory? Are they real? What happens to our souls after we die?

What do you think happens? Because that is probably what will happen to YOU ...

I have no idea what heaven or hell or purgatory are like, other than heaven is the place where we find ourselves in the presence of God and hell is the place where we find ourselves alienated from God. If you are alienating yourself from God, that force "which is," and you are essentially choosing that existence for yourself. I doubt hell is literally a place of fire and torture. I believe that the pain associated with hell is that you now reap the consequences of alienating yourself from God -- i.e., you are alienated from God, or that force "which is," but now you are conscious of the consequences of your alienation.

You're a young guy, Sky. All I can say is be like Cleets, accept your existence as a gift from that "which is," and see where that leads you.

On a theological note, I believe that God's grace can hear even the most inarticulate call to be one with What Is.

[JoltinJoe]

See, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. Evil is not within us; it is a force from outside which corrupts us.

I look at my two sons, and they were not born with an evil thought in their mind.

They were born, too, without a religious thought in their minds, Joe. Religion is forced on them as they grow up and it corrupts them. That's where they get the idea of this "Devil" foolishness - same place they got the "God" foolishness.

Poor kids are hamstrung from the beginning with all that baggage, just like you and I were. Difference? I escaped, very happily.

I disagree again. I believe people are born with an innate sense of their spirituality. It is the forces outside us which seek to deprive us of that sense.

[Cap'n Cat]

They were born, too, without a religious thought in their minds, Joe. Religion is forced on them as they grow up and it corrupts them. That's where they get the idea of this "Devil" foolishness - same place they got the "God" foolishness.

Poor kids are hamstrung from the beginning with all that baggage, just like you and I were. Difference? I escaped, very happily.

I disagree again. I believe people are born with an innate sense of their spirituality. It is the forces outside us which seek to deprive us of that sense.

Well, we disagree, then. Again, I admire religious people for being able to find comfort in those beliefs of theirs. Still love ya and I know your kids, like mine, will grow up to be happy, contributing citizens.

Do me a favor and say a prayer for Cap'n Cat and Lt. Cat's safe travels to Western Illinois this weekend. Maybe I'll call from the tailgater.

[JoltinJoe]

I disagree again. I believe people are born with an innate sense of their spirituality. It is the forces outside us which seek to deprive us of that sense.

Well, we disagree, then. Again, I admire religious people for being able to find comfort in those beliefs of theirs. Still love ya and I know your kids, like mine, will grow up to be happy, contributing citizens.

Do me a favor and say a prayer for Cap'n Cat and Lt. Cat's safe travels to Western Illinois this weekend. Maybe I'll call from the tailgater.

You bet. Enjoy the game and hope to hear from you.

PS -- Where's that brother of yours. Haven't seen him here or even on Facebook. Everything ok?

[Chizzang]

You're a young guy, Sky. All I can say is be like Cleets, accept your existence as a gift from that "which is," and see where that leads you.

On a theological note, I believe that God's grace can hear even the most inarticulate call to be one with What Is.

I love it...
Accepting life as a gift from that "which is" and seeing where that leads is great advice - it's open ended - and pretty easy to do and leaves one to their own interpretation of a higher power

And as you say that even the most inarticulate expressions of acceptance fairly quickly lead to experiencing some inner peace... this I can say certainly happened to me once I accepted "what is" things got much simpler

As I say to my very dear friend: I'm experiencing "Decentralized Ambient Joy" a phrase we use to describe the non-specific joyfulness of the acceptance of "What is"



Good stuff... I know to guys like Capn' and D1B it's all horsesh!t but it sure feels nice...

[CID1990]

You do realize that the Catholic Church accepts evolution?

Indeed,
The pope (can't remember which one) in about 1990 made a comment something to the effect that Evolution and Catholicism were not at odds with each other...

However: 40 some odd percent of Americans (if you can even imagine this) do not believe that Evolution and Christianity are compatible... so in effect Catholics are remarkably advanced when compared to your Average American Christian

Chizz-

I like you.

You usually make well thought out if not sometimes humorous observations.

Usually your substantive posts are supported by facts.

However, in this case I think Klean or someone else has gotten your password.

40% of Americans think that evolution and Christianity are incompatible. I think you may have misinterpreted. For instance, Capn Cat would be one of those 40%. It is not a measure of how many Christians do not belive in evolution, it is a measure of how many people do not believe that the theory and the religion can be reconciled.

I am an average American Christian (Presbyterian-Methodist) and I do not consider the creation story to be a literal truth and neither do most of the Christians I associated with while I was growing up. Even in Sunday School we talked about the allegorical truths of the Bible.

If I misread you then I apologize, but you made an uncharacteristic generalization there.

[JoltinJoe]

And as you say that even the most inarticulate expressions of acceptance fairly quickly lead to experiencing some inner peace... this I can say certainly happened to me once I accepted "what is" things got much simpler

Along these lines, one of my favorite parables is the one of the Prodigal Son. Of course, everyone knows this parable, but there is a part of it that does not get enough attention.

After the Prodigal Son has wasted all his father's gifts on his materialistic, hedonistic life style, and been reduced to the status of a beggar during a time of famine, he recognizes that even the servants in his father's house live better than him. So he decides to return to his father's house, beg for forgiveness, and ask simply to be treated as one of his father's servants.

So he starts off on his journey. As Christ tells the story, though, WHILE HE WAS STILL FAR OFF, his father learns that he is returning home, so his father sets off on foot and runs out to greet him. The Prodigal Son begins to beg for forgiveness and asks for the status of servant, but the father insists on killing the fatted calf in celebration, and fully restores his son.

The part of the story that the son is still far away when the father rushes out to meet him never gets enough or proper emphasis.

[Chizzang]

Indeed,
The pope (can't remember which one) in about 1990 made a comment something to the effect that Evolution and Catholicism were not at odds with each other...

However: 40 some odd percent of Americans (if you can even imagine this) do not believe that Evolution and Christianity are compatible... so in effect Catholics are remarkably advanced when compared to your Average American Christian

Chizz-

I like you.

You usually make well thought out if not sometimes humorous observations.

Usually your substantive posts are supported by facts.

However, in this case I think Klean or someone else has gotten your password.

40% of Americans think that evolution and Christianity are incompatible. I think you may have misinterpreted. For instance, Capn Cat would be one of those 40%. It is not a measure of how many Christians do not belive in evolution, it is a measure of how many people do not believe that the theory and the religion can be reconciled.

I am an average American Christian (Presbyterian-Methodist) and I do not consider the creation story to be a literal truth and neither do most of the Christians I associated with while I was growing up. Even in Sunday School we talked about the allegorical truths of the Bible.

If I misread you then I apologize, but you made an uncharacteristic generalization there.

Here's a few I might have misinterpreted also:

1) 2005 Scientific American poll 60% of Republicans are Creationists
2) 2005 Scientific American poll 37% of Conservatives believe in Evolution


In a stunning display of ignorance - I present to you: America as it stands today...
Results: Dumber than previously imagined

[D1B]

You're a young guy, Sky. All I can say is be like Cleets, accept your existence as a gift from that "which is," and see where that leads you.

On a theological note, I believe that God's grace can hear even the most inarticulate call to be one with What Is.

I love it...
Accepting life as a gift from that "which is" and seeing where that leads is great advice - it's open ended - and pretty easy to do and leaves one to their own interpretation of a higher power

And as you say that even the most inarticulate expressions of acceptance fairly quickly lead to experiencing some inner peace... this I can say certainly happened to me once I accepted "what is" things got much simpler

As I say to my very dear friend: I'm experiencing "Decentralized Ambient Joy" a phrase we use to describe the non-specific joyfulness of the acceptance of "What is"



Good stuff... I know to guys like Capn' and D1B it's all horsesh!t but it sure feels nice...

Cleets, I'm fine with the god is what is stuff. It's the mountains of catholic dogma that pollute that idea (and corrupt man)that's horseshit.

[D1B]

Well, we disagree, then. Again, I admire religious people for being able to find comfort in those beliefs of theirs. Still love ya and I know your kids, like mine, will grow up to be happy, contributing citizens.

Do me a favor and say a prayer for Cap'n Cat and Lt. Cat's safe travels to Western Illinois this weekend. Maybe I'll call from the tailgater.

You bet. Enjoy the game and hope to hear from you.

PS -- Where's that brother of yours. Haven't seen him here or even on Facebook. Everything ok?

Just got back online today. My monitor went out and I shut my home system off for a while. When I got another and booted up, my shitty Vista system did not allow my modem to connect. The idiot at Charter couldn't even figure it out. After a series of "fixes", I simply did a system restore and everything is cool.

Deftly handled redirect Joe, but I'm curious though what you think about exorcism, as practiced by your church.

Good to hear from you and be back.

[JoltinJoe]

You bet. Enjoy the game and hope to hear from you.

PS -- Where's that brother of yours. Haven't seen him here or even on Facebook. Everything ok?

Just got back online today. My monitor went out and I shut my home system off for a while. When I got another and booted up, my shitty Vista system did not allow my modem to connect. The idiot at Charter couldn't even figure it out. After a series of "fixes", I simply did a system restore and everything is cool.

Deftly handled redirect Joe, but I'm curious though what you think about exorcism, as practiced by your church.

Good to hear from you and be back.

Glad to see you back. You've got to get rid of Vista. It's possessed.

As for your question, Catholicism is not the only faith that has a rite of exorcism. Indeed most mainstream Christian churches have such a rite.

I gather the Church believes instances of true adversarial demonic possession are rare.

I do believe that there is a pervasive force of evil at work in the world which seeks to corrupt us, which force is personified as the "devil." The evidence of this evil spirit surrounds us every day.

I do believe that some individuals, in rare cases, allow themselves to be possessed by evil (Hitler, Stalin). Because they have voluntarily surrendered to this possession, their possession is not adversarial and does not manifest itself as a person who is experiencing an adversarial possession.

I have heard of, but have not seen, cases in which a person is possessed in an adversarial fashion. These are the cases in which a person is said to be possessed in a violent manner and exhibits the signs of possession (speaking in languages they do not know, cursing at holy items).

I don't know whether a person can truly be possessed by evil without allowing that to happen. Many churches say it has happened and there is a rite which deals with it, although the rite is used sparingly. The fact is the job of the modern exorcist is mostly to convince faithful people that their loved one is sick, not possessed.

I have never spoken with an exorcist, but my impression is that they are universally skeptical of claims of demonic possession, based on interviews and discussions I have seen. However, on rare occasions, they do perform the ritual. Since they tend to be rational about claims of possession, the fact they do perform the ritual in rare instances certainly intrigues me.

Sorry if this isn't enough, but I think like most Catholics, I really don't know enough about those rare cases. This isn't something that gets discussed in Catholic schooling or even college-level theology classes.

[D1B]

Just got back online today. My monitor went out and I shut my home system off for a while. When I got another and booted up, my shitty Vista system did not allow my modem to connect. The idiot at Charter couldn't even figure it out. After a series of "fixes", I simply did a system restore and everything is cool.

Deftly handled redirect Joe, but I'm curious though what you think about exorcism, as practiced by your church.

Good to hear from you and be back.

Glad to see you back. You've got to get rid of Vista. It's possessed.

As for your question, Catholicism is not the only faith that has a rite of exorcism. Indeed most mainstream Christian churches have such a rite.

I gather the Church believes instances of true adversarial demonic possession are rare.

I do believe that there is a pervasive force of evil at work in the world which seeks to corrupt us, which force is personified as the "devil." The evidence of this evil spirit surrounds us every day.

I do believe that some individuals, in rare cases, allow themselves to be possessed by evil (Hitler, Stalin). Because they have voluntarily surrendered to this possession, their possession is not adversarial and does not manifest itself as a person who is experiencing an adversarial possession.

I have heard of, but have not seen, cases in which a person is possessed in an adversarial fashion. These are the cases in which a person is said to be possessed in a violent manner and exhibits the signs of possession (speaking in languages they do not know, cursing at holy items).

I don't know whether a person can truly be possessed by evil without allowing that to happen. Many churches say it has happened and there is a rite which deals with it, although the rite is used sparingly. The fact is the job of the modern exorcist is mostly to convince faithful people that their loved one is sick, not possessed.

I have never spoken with an exorcist, but my impression is that they are universally skeptical of claims of demonic possession, based on interviews and discussions I have seen. However, on rare occasions, they do perform the ritual. Since they tend to be rational about claims of possession, the fact they do perform the ritual in rare instances certainly intrigues me.

Sorry if this isn't enough, but I think like most Catholics, I really don't know enough about those rare cases. This isn't something that gets discussed in Catholic schooling or even college-level theology classes.

Joe, have a happy Thanksgiving. Yep Vista is headed for the shitter. What a debacle.

[kalm]

Glad to see you back. You've got to get rid of Vista. It's possessed.

[Franks Tanks]

Blow me, Monsignor. There ain't no heaven, there ain't no hell, there ain't no God and there ain't no Devil. Evil forces come from within people, not because of some ghost. Get with it, Jose'.

See, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. Evil is not within us; it is a force from outside which corrupts us.

I look at my two sons, and they were not born with an evil thought in their mind.

Seriously Joe.. evil and good are forces outside of human control? Good, Evil and what we percieve to be good and evil are constructs of the human mind. I believe nothing is fundamentally good or evil, but we percieve certain people or events as good or evil based on perception. We think dropping an A bomb on Japan was good because it saved US lives, but I assume the Japanese look at it as an evil and blood thirsty act. How can we say a person or event is evil, when the definition of that event varies based on perspective?

Your sons, or any other child, was not born good or evil. However, the series of events and upbringing of the child recieved shapes their attitude and mindset toward a certain direction. They kid that turns "evil" does so because of a number of internal and external factors. Perhaps a person has chemical imbalances or brain abnormalities that cause the person to be insane and act evil. Perhaps abuse, poverty, and other factors caused that person to last out in an evil way. Human beings can be influenced in many ways, but essentially they choose to be good or evil and are not infected by an outside force.

I think there is some sort of god like creator out there somewhere, but I dont think it cares much about our daily lives and what we do.

[Cap'n Cat]

See, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. Evil is not within us; it is a force from outside which corrupts us.

I look at my two sons, and they were not born with an evil thought in their mind.

Seriously Joe.. evil and good are forces outside of human control? Good, Evil and what we percieve to be good and evil are constructs of the human mind. I believe nothing is fundamentally good or evil, but we percieve certain people or events as good or evil based on perception. We think dropping an A bomb on Japan was good because it saved US lives, but I assume the Japanese look at it as an evil and blood thirsty act. How can we say a person or event is evil, when the definition of that event varies based on perspective?

Your sons, or any other child, was not born good or evil. However, the series of events and upbringing of the child recieved shapes their attitude and mindset toward a certain direction. They kid that turns "evil" does so because of a number of internal and external factors. Perhaps a person has chemical imbalances or brain abnormalities that cause the person to be insane and act evil. Perhaps abuse, poverty, and other factors caused that person to last out in an evil way. Human beings can be influenced in many ways, but essentially they choose to be good or evil and are not infected by an outside force.

I think there is some sort of god like creator out there somewhere, but I dont think it cares much about our daily lives and what we do.

Post of the Month.