MEAC & the playoffs

[kirkblitz]

Is it possible that the MEAC received 2 bids this time to discourage them from dropping out of the playoffs to play their bowl game? It seems like that could be a possible reason. Thoughts?

edit: fixed poor spelling

[ToTheLeft]

They don't owe the MEAC anything, they have the Pioneer waiting in the wings to take the auto-bid the MEAC leaves on the table, should they go that route.

I guess there's a chance this happened, but I doubt it. I think the lack of losses and recent history in the playoffs were the main reasons.

[BlueHen86]

Is it possible that the MEAC received 2 bids this to discourse them from dropping out of the playoffs to play their bowl game? It seems like that could be a possible reason. Thoughts?

I think that when it came down to the last at large bid, SC States resume looked better than everyone else's.

Montana only had 6 D-I wins.

Liberty had 3 losses. No disrespect intended toward the Big South, but I don't think the Big South has proven itself to the point where a 3 loss Big South team automatically deserves a bid over a 2 loss MEAC team.

[ToTheLeft]

Is it possible that the MEAC received 2 bids this to discourse them from dropping out of the playoffs to play their bowl game? It seems like that could be a possible reason. Thoughts?

I think that when it came down to the last at large bid, SC States resume looked better than everyone else's.

Montana only had 6 D-I wins.

Liberty had 3 losses. No disrespect intended toward the Big South, but I don't think the Big South has proven itself to the point where a 3 loss Big South team automatically deserves a bid over a 2 loss MEAC team.

That's certainly true. There's no doubt that recent history played a big role in this pick. SCSU has performed well in the playoffs lately, and the MEAC as a conference has had more national success than the Big South. Combine that with only one FCS loss, and it's clear those are the things the committee stressed. I still think, if just having a good W-L record was the criteria, that Dayton and Jacksonville's was better than SCSU's, but again, that's where the bias towards the MEAC for recent performance, and since it's a conference with a little more name recognition.

[EWURanger]

Liberty should have been in, IMO........not really sure about the MEAC having 2 teams in. Guess time will tell.

[DSUrocks07]

We still need to rack up some wins...although its great that we DID get two deserving teams in



THIS MAN, will stop at nothing to garner support for his bowl game, even with a clever "divide-and-conquer" strategy. And as a former SWACKO, it is right up his alley. The only reason that it didn't happen this year was because of the outrage and public backlash over the summer by MEAC fans and Alums. Although there is still an legit argument for HAVING the game, the sticking point was whether we should still keep our AQ and send a replacement team in its place. Success in the playoffs is paramount. The only one of our schools that has one of these...



...is Florida A&M (although they probably have to bring it out of the attic and dust it off )

if SC State and BCU gets blown out...



bye bye playoffs

[aceinthehole]

Is it possible that the MEAC received 2 bids this to discourse them from dropping out of the playoffs to play their bowl game? It seems like that could be a possible reason. Thoughts?

I think that when it came down to the last at large bid, SC States resume looked better than everyone else's.

Montana only had 6 D-I wins.

Liberty had 3 losses. No disrespect intended toward the Big South, but I don't think the Big South has proven itself to the point where a 3 loss Big South team automatically deserves a bid over a 2 loss MEAC team.

I disagree, this was BS pure and simple.

- SC State had NO WINS of any value and 2 losses. Liberty had 3 losses, but they at least had a FBS win.

- The Big South was ranked above the MEAC (although the NEC was ranked above both of them).

- The undeserved high ranking in the human polls heped SCSU cause.

- A 7-4 win Montana (even with a D-II win), or a 8-3 Liberty (with an FBS win) was better resume than 9-2 SCSU, period.

[BlueHen86]

I think that when it came down to the last at large bid, SC States resume looked better than everyone else's.

Montana only had 6 D-I wins.

Liberty had 3 losses. No disrespect intended toward the Big South, but I don't think the Big South has proven itself to the point where a 3 loss Big South team automatically deserves a bid over a 2 loss MEAC team.

I disagree, this was BS pure and simple.

- SC State had NO WINS of any value and 2 losses. Liberty had 3 losses, but they at least had a FBS win.

- The Big South was ranked above the MEAC (although the NEC was ranked above both of them).

- The undeserved high ranking in the human polls heped SCSU cause.

- A 7-4 win Montana (even with a D-II win), or a 8-3 Liberty (with an FBS win) was better resume than 9-2 SCSU, period.

- Liberty's FBS win was over 4-8 Ball St. All FBS wins are nice, but some are nicer than others. Beating Ball St. wasn't enough to make up for 3 FCS losses.

- Human polls are not part of the selection process.

- Montana may have an argument, but they don't have any quality wins either. They were 6-4 against FCS competition and no wins against playoff teams.

I'm sure the decision was close and I don't think it was BS. I wouldn't have had a problem with the spot going to either Montana or Liberty or SC St.

[danefan]

None of the bubble teams really deserved to get in, but I have to question whether SCST deserved it more than any others.

I certainly don't think SCST has done anything this year to show they were the best available team left and isn't that what the Committee is supposed to do?

[mcveyrl]

None of the bubble teams really deserved to get in, but I have to question whether SCST deserved it more than any others.

I certainly don't think SCST has done anything this year to show they were the best available team left and isn't that what the Committee is supposed to do?

I think it's obvious that they started with the qualifier of seven wins. Everybody else got wiped off the table.
Then, they looked at strength of schedule and wiped the PFLs off the table and anybody with seven wins in the "weaker" conferences was out too. This eliminated Jacksonville, Dayton, ODU and Liberty.

At that point, I think they had their 20.

[danefan]

None of the bubble teams really deserved to get in, but I have to question whether SCST deserved it more than any others.

I certainly don't think SCST has done anything this year to show they were the best available team left and isn't that what the Committee is supposed to do?

I think it's obvious that they started with the qualifier of seven wins. Everybody else got wiped off the table.
Then, they looked at strength of schedule and wiped the PFLs off the table and anybody with seven wins in the "weaker" conferences was out too. This eliminated Jacksonville, Dayton, ODU and Liberty.

At that point, I think they had their 20.

Except how then did they get to SCST?

Terrible SOS. No signature wins and loses to the best two teams they played. Oh and the MEAC was terrible as a league this year.

[mcveyrl]

I think it's obvious that they started with the qualifier of seven wins. Everybody else got wiped off the table.
Then, they looked at strength of schedule and wiped the PFLs off the table and anybody with seven wins in the "weaker" conferences was out too. This eliminated Jacksonville, Dayton, ODU and Liberty.

At that point, I think they had their 20.

Except how then did they get to SCST?

Terrible SOS. No signature wins and loses to the best two teams they played. Oh and the MEAC was terrible as a league this year.

SCST had eight wins. That's the ONLY way they got there, by just counting wins. Like you said on the other thread, I think in the "weaker" conferences, they resorted to a counting game. Eight D1 is greater than seven, SCST wins. Not saying it's right, but I think that's what they did.

[aceinthehole]

I disagree, this was BS pure and simple.

- SC State had NO WINS of any value and 2 losses. Liberty had 3 losses, but they at least had a FBS win.

- The Big South was ranked above the MEAC (although the NEC was ranked above both of them).

- The undeserved high ranking in the human polls heped SCSU cause.

- A 7-4 win Montana (even with a D-II win), or a 8-3 Liberty (with an FBS win) was better resume than 9-2 SCSU, period.

- Liberty's FBS win was over 4-8 Ball St. All FBS wins are nice, but some are nicer than others. Beating Ball St. wasn't enough to make up for 3 FCS losses.

- Human polls are not part of the selection process.

- Montana may have an argument, but they don't have any quality wins either. They were 6-4 against FCS competition and no wins against playoff teams.

I'm sure the decision was close and I don't think it was BS. I wouldn't have had a problem with the spot going to either Montana or Liberty or SC St.

It's not even close. Compare Liberty and SCSU head to head.

Ratings - Liberty
Sagarin: Liberty 155, SCSU 205
Massey: Liberty 43, SCSU 52

Strength of Schedule - Liberty
Sagarin: Liberty 215, SCSU 244
Massey: Liberty 68, SCSU 107

League Ranking - Big South
Sagarin: BS 24, MEAC 27
Massey: BS 10, MEAC 13

Best 2 wins
Liberty: at Ball State (4-8, 3-5 MAC) and vs. Stony Brook (6-5, 5-1 BS)
SC State: at FAMU (8-3, 7-1 MEAC) and vs. Hampton (6-5,5-3 MEAC)

Liberty's win over a less than average FBS team, is better than SCSU's win at FAMU for sure. Liberty's 2nd best win is about equal to SCSU's best win at FAMU, as they were both respective conference co-champs. But Hapton is SCSU 2nd best win, and that is quite weak.

Losses
Liberty: at JMU (beat Virginia Tech), at Coastal carolina (BS co-champ), and at RMU (NEC co-champ),
SC State: at Georgia Tech (BCS team) and vs. BCU (MEAC Co-champ)

SCSU's loss at Georgia Tech is a slightly "better" loss than LU at JMU, but not by much. Both teams lost to their respective conference co-champion (CCU and BCU). Liberty lost 1 additional game on the road vs non-conf co-champ. Liberty had a total of 3 losses and SCSU had only a toatl of 2.

So you really think that the 1 extra road loss on Liberty's much tougher schedule is enough to keep them vs SCSU?

[Pwns]

Why would the NCAA care if the MEAC decides to drop their autobid? if anything, they'd like the big crowds the LB would draw. On top of that, I'm sure there are many schools that would like their conference to get the MEAC's autobid should they give theirs up.

If there is a bias that hurt Liberty, it's the bias that the committee will favor teams that have been to the playoffs before over those that have not. In 2002 Wofford beat GSU and App. State (both playoff teams) in Statesboro and Boone and Eastern Illinois got chosen over them even though Wofford was in all likelihood better than EIU was that year.

[ToTheLeft]

None of the bubble teams really deserved to get in, but I have to question whether SCST deserved it more than any others.

I certainly don't think SCST has done anything this year to show they were the best available team left and isn't that what the Committee is supposed to do?

I think it's obvious that they started with the qualifier of seven wins. Everybody else got wiped off the table.
Then, they looked at strength of schedule and wiped the PFLs off the table and anybody with seven wins in the "weaker" conferences was out too. This eliminated Jacksonville, Dayton, ODU and Liberty.

At that point, I think they had their 20.

As DF said, how is the MEAC not a weaker conference?

[ToTheLeft]

Why would the NCAA care if the MEAC decides to drop their autobid? if anything, they'd like the big crowds the LB would draw. On top of that, I'm sure there are many schools that would like their conference to get the MEAC's autobid should they give theirs up.

If there is a bias that hurt Liberty, it's the bias that the committee will favor teams that have been to the playoffs before over those that have not. In 2002 Wofford beat GSU and App. State (both playoff teams) in Statesboro and Boone and Eastern Illinois got chosen over them even though Wofford was in all likelihood better than EIU was that year.

This is possible. We're unproven in a lot of ways (not that SCSU was more proven this year, but in years past they made the playoffs, as you said).

Honestly, I'm thinking that having our AD on the committee hurt us.

When they were discussing our region, he would have to leave when talking about Liberty, so if he was supportive of SCSU or Jacksonville, then his opinions on those schools helped to push Liberty down the totem pole.

[mcveyrl]

I think it's obvious that they started with the qualifier of seven wins. Everybody else got wiped off the table.
Then, they looked at strength of schedule and wiped the PFLs off the table and anybody with seven wins in the "weaker" conferences was out too. This eliminated Jacksonville, Dayton, ODU and Liberty.

At that point, I think they had their 20.

As DF said, how is the MEAC not a weaker conference?

I don't think there's any question the MEAC is weaker then the Big South, but I think the two got lumped together in the committee room. 8 wins beat 7 wins. Again, I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying that's the only way they can justify it. Nothing else makes sense.

[aceinthehole]

Why would the NCAA care if the MEAC decides to drop their autobid? if anything, they'd like the big crowds the LB would draw. On top of that, I'm sure there are many schools that would like their conference to get the MEAC's autobid should they give theirs up.

If there is a bias that hurt Liberty, it's the bias that the committee will favor teams that have been to the playoffs before over those that have not. In 2002 Wofford beat GSU and App. State (both playoff teams) in Statesboro and Boone and Eastern Illinois got chosen over them even though Wofford was in all likelihood better than EIU was that year.

I'm sure that's what happened, but let's be real. The fact is the MEAC had an awful year and they've lost their last 10 games in the playoffs.

I just don't get how any reasonable person can say that the MEAC gets the 'benefit of the doubt" for a 2nd team, when the the MEAC AQ winner has come up short for the past decade! The entire conference didn't have a single non-conf win that suggests that a 2nd team deserves to be in the playoffs. Not to mention SCSU specifically has proven NOTHING and the hasn't beaten an AQ team in the past 4 years!

Q: Name SCSU's best non-conference win in the past 4 season?
A: Benedict (2008 & 2100), Grambling (2009), or Miss Valley St (2010).

The FACTS speak for themselves, SCSU was the least deserving "bubble team" the committe could have picked!

[aceinthehole]

Q: Name SCSU's best non-conference win in the past 4 season?
A: Benedict (2008 & 2100), Grambling (2009), or Miss Valley St (2010).

The FACTS speak for themselves, SCSU was the least deserving "bubble team" the committe could have picked!

That's was all of SC State's non-conf wins over the last past 4 years - they have just two (2) DI non-conf wins in that time! By comparison, look at what Liberty and CCSU have done over the past 4 years:

Liberty: Has won or shared the Big South title for the past 4 years!
D-I non-conf wins: St. Francis (2007 & 2010), Western Carolina (2008), Youngstown State (2008), Lafayette (2009) NC Central (2009), Savanah State (2010) and Ball State (2010).
Liberty has beaten 3 AQ conference teams and a FBS opponent in the past 4 years.

CCSU: Has won or shared the last 2 NEC titles!
D-I non-conf wins: Bryant* (2008), NC Central (2008), Delaware State (2008), Lehigh (2009), and Columbia (2009)
CCSU has beaten 2 AQ conference teams in the past 4 seasons.

(*Bryant was Indy in 2008)

[89Hen]

I disagree, this was BS pure and simple.

- SC State had NO WINS of any value and 2 losses. Liberty had 3 losses, but they at least had a FBS win.

- The Big South was ranked above the MEAC (although the NEC was ranked above both of them).

- The undeserved high ranking in the human polls heped SCSU cause.

- A 7-4 win Montana (even with a D-II win), or a 8-3 Liberty (with an FBS win) was better resume than 9-2 SCSU, period.

We're talking about the #20 team to get in, I'm not losing sleep over that one. But if you really want to get into it...

65 Delaware
70 William & Mary
76 Villanova
82 Appalachian State
84 Stephen F. Austin
85 New Hampshire
87 Eastern Washington
88 Wofford
92 Montana State
93 South Alabama
94 Sacramento State
95 Western Illinois
99 Georgia Southern
100 James Madison
102 Northern Iowa
103 Northern Arizona
111 Massachusetts
113 Chattanooga
114 Jacksonville State
116 South Dakota State
117 North Dakota State
120 Elon
121 Montana
123 Richmond
125 Pennsylvania
126 Southern Utah
129 Weber State
131 Missouri State
132 SE Missouri State
133 Furman
136 Southern Illinois
137 McNeese State
138 Sam Houston State
139 Central Arkansas
140 Robert Morris
141 Jacksonville
142 Cal Poly-SLO
143 Indiana State
144 Lehigh
146 Eastern Kentucky
147 Maine
148 UC Davis
150 Rhode Island
151 Youngstown State
152 Ball State

[aceinthehole]

We're talking about the #20 team to get in, I'm not losing sleep over that one. But if you really want to get into it...

152 Ball State

Of course you don't care because it doesn't effect UD or the CAA, but for other teams/conferences this has much more of an effect.

SCSU has been overhyped and overranked for the entire season. Their body of work is weak and they have no non-conf wins to show for it.

For years, you and other elitiest UD/CAA fans have posted how NEC and Big South teams have to WIN games vs playoff conferences yet you don't want to hold that same standard for MEAC teams? Why should they get a pass from you long-held criteria, especially when no one on this board can't even remember when SC State last WON a meaningful non-conference game?

And what is your point about Ball State? It is still a much better WIN than anything SCSU had this year. In fact, Dayton has a better win (vs RMU) than SC State (vs FAMU)!

The fact is there is nothing objective that says SCSU deserved this bid over a whole bunch of teams.

[89Hen]

For years, you and other elitiest UD/CAA fans have posted how NEC and Big South teams have to WIN games vs playoff conferences yet you don't want to hold that same standard for MEAC teams? Why should they get a pass from you long-held criteria, especially when no one on this board can't even remember when SC State last WON a meaningful non-conference game?

And what is your point about Ball State? It is still a much better WIN than anything SCSU had this year. In fact, Dayton has a better win (vs RMU) than SC State (vs FAMU)!

The fact is there is nothing objective that says SCSU deserved this bid over a whole bunch of teams.

Ahhh, here we go. "Elitist"...

Show me where I ever said SCSt was deserving or that the MEAC shouldn't be held to the same standards. Again, we're talking about the last one or two teams in the field. Honestly, NONE of them are deserving. The fact that you can't build a case for SCSt doesn't mean you're building a case for Liberty.

[SumItUp]

I don't think there's any question the MEAC is weaker then the Big South, but I think the two got lumped together in the committee room. 8 wins beat 7 wins. Again, I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying that's the only way they can justify it. Nothing else makes sense.

Liberty had 8 D1 wins, not 7. This was not an 8>7 argument.

[DSUrocks07]

For years, you and other elitiest UD/CAA fans have posted how NEC and Big South teams have to WIN games vs playoff conferences yet you don't want to hold that same standard for MEAC teams? Why should they get a pass from you long-held criteria, especially when no one on this board can't even remember when SC State last WON a meaningful non-conference game?

And what is your point about Ball State? It is still a much better WIN than anything SCSU had this year. In fact, Dayton has a better win (vs RMU) than SC State (vs FAMU)!

The fact is there is nothing objective that says SCSU deserved this bid over a whole bunch of teams.

Ahhh, here we go. "Elitist"...

Show me where I ever said SCSt was deserving or that the MEAC shouldn't be held to the same standards. Again, we're talking about the last one or two teams in the field. Honestly, NONE of them are deserving. The fact that you can't build a case for SCSt doesn't mean you're building a case for Liberty.

I think thats the point that we are missing in all of this here...

All the arguments this season was that with 20 teams, watering down the entire tournament was a risk that the NCAA was willing to take. And I can take a stand to say that pissing and bitching and moaning about who Team #19 and #20 are versus #21 and #22 would hold even less weight than in previous years with the last two in/out. SCSU is the three time defending MEAC champs (FWIW), they have competed VERY well in the playoffs twice @ App State, and had dominated the conference handily over that span (going 23-1), and one loss is going to keep them out of the playoffs. I don't think it should. That's what allows the 7-4 CAA/MVFC/SoCon teams to get in. Is it fair, I'm not saying it is, but it is written in the handbook that previous years success is weighed in the selections. If SC State has flipped records with DSU this season and we went 9-2 (lossing to and FBS and BCU), we wouldn't of gotten in.

[DSUrocks07]

But back to the OP...

I actually think this is a "put up or shut the f*** up" move by the NCAA, they cannot be too happy with the moves that are being speculated by the MEAC. After basically being all but shut out of the FBS by the BCS, (and be reduced to a strictly "regulatory" body), they are in the bind of losing BOTH of their premier HBCU conferences to another "bowl-like" system. They know that SC State has come out publically against the LB, and so has FAMU...and BCU's prez voiced her support for it....being that BCU's SOS was as weak as it was, I would hazard a guess that if FAMU would of won the autobid (via an SC State loss), BCU would of been on the outside looking in...