Pope knee deep in shit again....

[D1B]

BTW, less than 20% of the people in Africa are Catholic.

You should be proud of their work there. They build schools, secure water, ease suffering, build hospitals....you name it.

It's just sad that they were blinded by dogma and scripture and so many millions had to die. This is the problem with the church - they do some motherfucking great work, but sometimes it comes with a price.

[Ibanez]

Now says condoms are OK! ....but only for male prostitutes to prevent the spread of AIDS in Africa! Didnt that asshole just say last year, IN AFRICA,that condoms were a no no? Yep, he did.

Well good for him. Finally, sanity.

Joe - what say you? If memory serves, you vigorously defended the Pope's statements last year and are on record as one of the catholic geniuses who think abstinence will solve the AIDS epidemic in africa.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/pop ... d=12216465" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

*CHECK OUT THE PART IN THE VIDEO WHERE THE PRIEST IS ASKED WHETHER CONDOMS WOULD ALSO BE OK TO USE TO PREVENT THE SPREAD OF SYPHILLIS OR HEPATITUS.... Jesus, what a joke of a religion - after 3 decades of death and misery in Africa, they just now realize they were wrong - again.

He used the male whore as an example, he said it was accetable. Facts are an amazing thing.

[CID1990]

Lookit, D1B-

Just because Father Bob told you he was just going to 'put the tip in' when you were 6 does not mean you have to take all this sh!t out on us. Most of us here aren't particularly religious OR Catholic, for that matter. Send a PM to the three or four guys who disagree with you.

Sorry about that anal tear.

[D1B]

Lookit, D1B-

Just because Father Bob told you he was just going to 'put the tip in' when you were 6 does not mean you have to take all this sh!t out on us. Most of us here aren't particularly religious OR Catholic, for that matter. Send a PM to the three or four guys who disagree with you.

Sorry about that anal tear.

This story was in every major newspaper in the world and thus very appropriate for a POLITICAL discussion board. This development could end up saving tens of millions of lives in Africa and the third world. I applaud the pope and the growing legions of enlightened catholics who defy homicidal church dogma in favor of reason and humanism.

Ignore me. Report me if this shit shows up in the FCS Discussion. Otherwise, go fuck yourself.

[AZGrizFan]

Why is it a strawman argument? You conveniently assume they'll go against the church on one hand, but avidly follow church doctrine on the other, because it's the only way your fucked up argument works.

No, that's your lizard brained and uninformed assumption of my argument. Better luck next time.

The strawman is Joe's first sentence above, dummy. The catholic church is partially responsible for the spread of AIDS. Joe does this shit all the time to redirect.

Z, really? Catholic missions, churches and other associated aid groups in Africa only serve catholics or people who adhere to catholic dogma? They are doing some very admirable work all over the continent and most of the people they serve are not catholic. They have tremendous resources and influence there and the rest of the third world (as an ever-increasing percentage of the industrialized east and west are finally getting wise to the scam and are leaving the church) and could have been pushing safety and science versus bullshit church dogma.

Listen asshole. You left the church eons ago and don't have a dog in this fight. Stick your finger back up your ass and go back and play with the piles of dog shit in your neighbors yard. My position, and welcome reception of the pope's words is the same as practically every world-wide health and AIDS organization on the fucking planet. You are nothing.

So, in other words, you have no retort for Joe pointing out your illogical fallacy.

Got it.

[D1B]

No, that's your lizard brained and uninformed assumption of my argument. Better luck next time.

The strawman is Joe's first sentence above, dummy. The catholic church is partially responsible for the spread of AIDS. Joe does this shit all the time to redirect.

Z, really? Catholic missions, churches and other associated aid groups in Africa only serve catholics or people who adhere to catholic dogma? They are doing some very admirable work all over the continent and most of the people they serve are not catholic. They have tremendous resources and influence there and the rest of the third world (as an ever-increasing percentage of the industrialized east and west are finally getting wise to the scam and are leaving the church) and could have been pushing safety and science versus bullshit church dogma.

Listen asshole. You left the church eons ago and don't have a dog in this fight. Stick your finger back up your ass and go back and play with the piles of dog shit in your neighbors yard. My position, and welcome reception of the pope's words is the same as practically every world-wide health and AIDS organization on the fucking planet. You are nothing.

So, in other words, you have no retort for Joe pointing out your illogical fallacy.

Got it.

God, you're dumb.

This aint court Z. Millions of lives are at stake. Joe doesn't get it, but, finally, his pope does.

[AZGrizFan]

So, in other words, you have no retort for Joe pointing out your illogical fallacy.

Got it.

God, you're dumb.

This aint court Z. Millions of lives are at stake. Joe doesn't get it, but, finally, his pope does.

I'm not the one using an illogical argument to try to make my hatepoint.

[JoltinJoe]

What do you mean I don't get it.

The last time we discussed this, I said that individuals should abstain from high-risk sex but, if they were going to ignore this common sense practice, of course they should use condoms. I also said that it was ALREADY the church's position that, if a party were to engage in high-risk sex in such situations, that its proscription on the use of condoms in cases in which they interfere in conception did not, in itself, create a moral issue.

What is news here is that someone discovered and reported on the more subtle aspects on the church's position.

But the point that the church has any responsibility for the spread of AIDs in Africa is silly for the reasons Z keeps highlighting.

[D1B]

What do you mean I don't get it.

The last time we discussed this, I said that individuals should abstain from high-risk sex but, if they were going to ignore this common sense practice, of course they should use condoms. I also said that it was ALREADY the church's position that, if a party were to engage in high-risk sex in such situations, that its proscription on the use of condoms in cases in which they interfere in conception did not, in itself, create a moral issue.

What is news here is that someone discovered and reported on the more subtle aspects on the church's position.

But the point that the church has any responsibility for the spread of AIDs in Africa is silly for the reasons Z keeps highlighting.

Good synopsis Joe. The worldwide attention the pope (and author) created is welcome news and will save many lives.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the your last point. First Z is an idiot and is only involved because he hates me.

Your church has billions invested in charitable endeavors in Africa. More than probably any nation, exept the United States. True to form, the catholics are predominatly dealing with the poorest of the poor - the diseased, the infected, the uneducated... if they were armed with this "clarification" 30 years ago, millions of lives could have been saved and Africa could be seeing a decline in infections today. You entered the fight with no bullets in the gun. Now you have em.

Again, the fact that the world's leading health orgs have enthusiastically welcomed this "clarification" supports my assertion that the church was helping spread AIDS through adherence to dogma.

Again...

NAIROBI, Kenya —
From clerics to AIDS activists, Africans applauded Pope Benedict XVI’s suggestion that condoms could be used in limited situations to protect partners—a shift that could make a dramatic impact in a continent that is both battling an HIV pandemic and is the fastest-growing region for the Roman Catholic church.
“I say hurrah for Pope Benedict,” exclaimed Linda-Gail Bekker, chief executive of South Africa’s Desmond Tutu HIV Foundation. She said the pope’s statement may prompt many people to “adopt a simple lifestyle strategy to protect themselves.”

In comments made public last weekend, the pope said condoms could be morally justified in some cases, such as with male prostitutes to prevent the spread of HIV. The Vatican went even further on Tuesday, saying the comments also apply to women. About 54% of those infected with HIV in Africa are women.

Reacting to the expanded statement, a senior official with the United Nations AIDS agency said: “I think it will have a very positive impact ... Catholics consider the pope infallible. He cannot err in what he’s teaching. That way, they will now be able to use condoms, and I can see further decline in the AIDS epidemic.”

Sheila Tlou spoke with The Associated Press during a meeting Tuesday in Johannesburg in which UNAIDS announced a nearly 20% drop in new HIV infections around the world over the past decade—largely due to increased condom use. Tlou, the eastern and southern Africa regional director for UNAIDS and a former Botswana health minister, said other churches should follow the pope’s lead.

More than 20 million people across Africa are infected with HIV—more than the rest of the world combined. In Sierra Leone, the director of the National AIDS Secretariat predicted condom use would now increase, lowering the number of new infections.

“Once the pope has made a pronouncement, his priests will be in the forefront in advocating for their perceived use of condoms,” said the official, Dr Brima Kargbo.

Sello Hatang, spokesman for the Nelson Mandela Foundation, applauded the pope Monday, saying “condom use is essential in the fight against HIV.

While some church leaders in Africa disagreed with the new approach and others said they are waiting for an official church communique, Bishop Valentine Seane, the leader of Botswana’s 70,000 Catholics, said he is open to the idea of condom use.

“The lesser evil is to use available means of protection,” Seane told AP.

The Catholic Church rejects the use of condoms as part of its overall teaching against artificial contraception. Senior Vatican officials have advocated fidelity in marriage and abstinence from premarital sex as key weapons in the fight against AIDS.

Seane said of the pope’s latest comments: “The intention is very important here because it is to safeguard one from viruses such as the pandemic,” and not to sanction birth control.

During a visit to Africa last year, the pope said condoms are not the answer to the AIDS epidemic and even declared that distributing condoms “increases the problem.” But in comments made public last weekend, he said using condoms could represent a first step in assuming moral responsibility “in the intention of reducing the risk of infection.”

This could have a big effect in Africa, where nearly 20 percent of the continent’s 1 billion people are Catholic. Caroline Nenguke of the Treatment Action Campaign, an advocacy group for people with HIV, said more people will now accept the use of condoms, saving lives.

“He has a wide following and there are some people who take his word as gospel truth,” said Nenguke, whose group is based in Cape Town, South Africa. “If condom use has more credibility, then more people will use condoms and therefore infection rates will reduce.”

Many others embraced the pope’s new stance. Melrosa Williams, a churchgoer in Sierra Leone, said: “I support what the pope has said 100 percent since prevention is better than a cure.”

The pope sought to “kick-start a debate” when he said some condom use may be justified, Vatican insiders said on Monday. For many, there is little to debate.

In Nigeria, Charles Oluwarotimi, who works in the financial field, interpreted the pope’s statements as sanctioning condom use in many risky situations, even before the Vatican amplified the remarks.

“I think it’s good as a lifesaving device, especially for married couples when one of them has HIV and they want to continue the marriage,” Oluwarotimi said. “It is also good for the youths who still indulge in sins.”

But Rev Venicious Reeves, a Pentecostal preacher in Monrovia, Liberia, disagreed with the pope’s statement about condoms and male prostitutes.

“The pope should instead encourage people he classifies as male prostitutes to get out of prostitution and live in morality,” said Reeves.

[CID1990]

Lookit, D1B-

Just because Father Bob told you he was just going to 'put the tip in' when you were 6 does not mean you have to take all this sh!t out on us. Most of us here aren't particularly religious OR Catholic, for that matter. Send a PM to the three or four guys who disagree with you.

Sorry about that anal tear.

This story was in every major newspaper in the world and thus very appropriate for a POLITICAL discussion board. This development could end up saving tens of millions of lives in Africa and the third world. I applaud the pope and the growing legions of enlightened catholics who defy homicidal church dogma in favor of reason and humanism.

Ignore me. Report me if this **** shows up in the FCS Discussion. Otherwise, go **** yourself.

I like it!

D1B seriously passionate about something.

Say hi to Father Bob and Mr. Winky for me next time you see them. Tell him I said the "pictures" were great.

[GannonFan]

Condoms can't cure ignorance. Heck, we still have too many people get AIDS here in America and we have access to every protection under the sun. We're a long, long way from solving the problem in less advanced parts of the world. Just making condoms available and getting the church's okay on it is like throwing a rock against a wave hoping to stop it.

You don't understand the role of and magnitude of influence the church and the american religious right has in Africa.

AIDS in america is non existant compared to Africa.

Even in America, with all the education, quality of life, health care, etc, and yes, condoms, we still have 56k Americans each year contract HIV. Condoms are but one small piece in a jigsaw puzzle of why people get AIDS. Yes, it will save lives, no doubt, and the Church's stance on condoms is flawed (as I've said countless times, especially considering their embrace of other birth control techniques), but even if condoms were everywhere available in Africa, it will be a small dent in the overall problem. People focus on the condum issue, potentially because of the church angle, but the problem is far more complicated than that.

[D1B]

This story was in every major newspaper in the world and thus very appropriate for a POLITICAL discussion board. This development could end up saving tens of millions of lives in Africa and the third world. I applaud the pope and the growing legions of enlightened catholics who defy homicidal church dogma in favor of reason and humanism.

Ignore me. Report me if this **** shows up in the FCS Discussion. Otherwise, go **** yourself.

I like it!

D1B seriously passionate about something.

Say hi to Father Bob and Mr. Winky for me next time you see them. Tell him I said the "pictures" were great.

Will do 90, as soon as I get my fist and forearm out of your mother's anus.

[89Hen]

AIDS in america is non existant compared to Africa.

How did I miss this gem?

So is malaria and dysentery.

Africa = 19% Catholic
USA = 24% Catholic

Oops.

[D1B]

You don't understand the role of and magnitude of influence the church and the american religious right has in Africa.

AIDS in america is non existant compared to Africa.

Even in America, with all the education, quality of life, health care, etc, and yes, condoms, we still have 56k Americans each year contract HIV. Condoms are but one small piece in a jigsaw puzzle of why people get AIDS. Yes, it will save lives, no doubt, and the Church's stance on condoms is flawed (as I've said countless times, especially considering their embrace of other birth control techniques), but even if condoms were everywhere available in Africa, it will be a small dent in the overall problem. People focus on the condum issue, potentially because of the church angle, but the problem is far more complicated than that.

Good post.

I see the magnitude of reception of this news by major health orgs as evidence it will have more than a small dent.

That aside - even a 1% (in S. Africa they experienced a 20% drop in infections after more emphasis on condom use) drop would save tens of thousands of lives.

Keep in mind too this is a new development and the prospect of a catholic army of samaratins now armed with weapons of reason holds great potential.

God bless pope Benedict!

[AZGrizFan]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the your last point. First Z is an idiot and is only involved because he hates me.

Not true, D. I feel sorry for you, I don't hate you.

[andy7171]

God bless pope Benedict!

Why the title of the thread then?

[Skjellyfetti]

AIDS in america is non existant compared to Africa.

How did I miss this gem?

So is malaria and dysentery.

Africa = 19% Catholic
USA = 24% Catholic

Oops.

Fallacy on your part as well. Not all of Africa has a problem with AIDS. Northern Africa (the least Catholic and one of the more populated areas of Africa) has better HIV/AIDS infection rates than the United States. But I assume your "Africa" includes that. So your stat is pretty misleading. Add up the % of Catholics in the countries with the worst HIV/AIDS problems.

The countries with the highest rates of HIV/AIDS are some of the most Catholic.


HIV/AIDS by population:


Hmmmm. Bit of a correlation there?

[89Hen]

How did I miss this gem?

So is malaria and dysentery.

Africa = 19% Catholic
USA = 24% Catholic

Oops.

Fallacy on your part as well. Not all of Africa has a problem with AIDS. Northern Africa (the least Catholic and one of the more populated areas of Africa) has better HIV/AIDS infection rates than the United States. But I assume your "Africa" includes that. So your stat is pretty misleading. Add up the % of Catholics in the countries with the worst HIV/AIDS problems.

The countries with the highest rates of HIV/AIDS are some of the most Catholic.


HIV/AIDS by population:


Hmmmm. Bit of a correlation there?

Yes, there is a correlation... Africa's population...

[AZGrizFan]

The countries with the highest rates of HIV/AIDS are some of the most Catholic.


HIV/AIDS by population:


Hmmmm. Bit of a correlation there?

Here's what's fucking HILARIOUS about your fucking Catholic-bashing douchebags. Africa has almost THREE TIMES as many muslims as Catholics, and muslims ALSO are against condoms for religious reasons.

Think THAT might play a factor in the AIDS rate in Africa? Any correlation there? But you motherfuckers would rather sit here on your high horses and bash Catholics....mustn't be politically incorrect and call out the Muslims.

[D1B]

The countries with the highest rates of HIV/AIDS are some of the most Catholic.


HIV/AIDS by population:


Hmmmm. Bit of a correlation there?

Here's what's fucking HILARIOUS about your fucking Catholic-bashing douchebags. Africa has almost THREE TIMES as many muslims as Catholics, and muslims ALSO are against condoms for religious reasons.

Think THAT might play a factor in the AIDS rate in Africa? Any correlation there? But you motherfuckers would rather sit here on your high horses and bash Catholics....mustn't be politically incorrect and call out the Muslims.

"They do it too" Great argument Aristotle! You so concerned about the muslims?, then start your own thread, this one is about catholics. *Of course you know if you do start one, you'll be using the same logic that you have been attempting to refute.

[AZGrizFan]

Here's what's fucking HILARIOUS about your fucking Catholic-bashing douchebags. Africa has almost THREE TIMES as many muslims as Catholics, and muslims ALSO are against condoms for religious reasons.

Think THAT might play a factor in the AIDS rate in Africa? Any correlation there? But you motherfuckers would rather sit here on your high horses and bash Catholics....mustn't be politically incorrect and call out the Muslims.

"They do it too" Great argument Aristotle! You so concerned about the muslims?, then start your own thread, this one is about catholics. *Of course you know if you do start one, you'll be using the same logic that you have been attempting to refute.

Just pointing out the flaws in YOUR logic. But that's like shooting fish in a barrel...

[JoltinJoe]

Fallacy on your part as well. Not all of Africa has a problem with AIDS. Northern Africa (the least Catholic and one of the more populated areas of Africa) has better HIV/AIDS infection rates than the United States. But I assume your "Africa" includes that. So your stat is pretty misleading. Add up the % of Catholics in the countries with the worst HIV/AIDS problems.

The countries with the highest rates of HIV/AIDS are some of the most Catholic.


HIV/AIDS by population:


Hmmmm. Bit of a correlation there?

Yes, there is a correlation... Africa's population...

Actually it can documented that the percentage of population afflicted by AIDS in Africa is LOWER in countries in which Catholicism is more prevalent -- and that's because more people in those countries are practicing abstinence.

Abstinence is 100% effective.

[CID1990]

I like it!

D1B seriously passionate about something.

Say hi to Father Bob and Mr. Winky for me next time you see them. Tell him I said the "pictures" were great.

Will do 90, as soon as I get my fist and forearm out of your mother's anus.

While you're in there, see if you can find my car keys.

[D1B]

Will do 90, as soon as I get my fist and forearm out of your mother's anus.

While you're in there, see if you can find my car keys.

[D1B]

Yes, there is a correlation... Africa's population...

Actually it can documented that the percentage of population afflicted by AIDS in Africa is LOWER in countries in which Catholicism is more prevalent -- and that's because more people in those countries are practicing abstinence.

Abstinence is 100% effective.

Show some documentation then please.