BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

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JoltinJoe
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BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by JoltinJoe »

In the Travis-fueled euphoria over the Red Sox's acquisition of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, all of Red Sox nation seem to overlook that these acquisitions mean that neither Adrian Beltre nor Victor Martinez will be with the Red Sox next year.

While certainly the Sox traded up in this exchange, the offensive capabilities of Gonzalez and Crawford are not pure upside for the Red Sox. Beltre and Martinez combined for 48 homers and 181 RBI for the Sox in 2010, while Crawford's and Gonzalez's combined totals for 2010 are 50 HRs and 191 RBI. Any defensive advantage the Sox gained by adding Gonzalez and Crawford is more than offset by the fact that another result of these transactions is Jason Varitek will probably be the Sox No. 1 catcher.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by DJH »

They have already stated that Veritek will be the backup to Saltalamachia.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

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DJH wrote:They have already stated that Veritek will be the backup to Saltalamachia.
That's even worse.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by andy7171 »

JoltinJoe wrote:In the Travis-fueled euphoria over the Red Sox's acquisition of Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford, all of Red Sox nation seem to overlook that these acquisitions mean that neither Adrian Beltre nor Victor Martinez will be with the Red Sox next year.

While certainly the Sox traded up in this exchange, the offensive capabilities of Gonzalez and Crawford are not pure upside for the Red Sox. Beltre and Martinez combined for 48 homers and 181 RBI for the Sox in 2010, while Crawford's and Gonzalez's combined totals for 2010 are 50 HRs and 191 RBI. Any defensive advantage the Sox gained by adding Gonzalez and Crawford is more than offset by the fact that another result of these transactions is Jason Varitek will probably be the Sox No. 1 catcher.
Those two five-run homers will be against the Orioles no doubt.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by DJH »

Rumors today are that Boston may be the leader to sign catcher, Russell Martin.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by UNHWildCats »

DJH wrote:Rumors today are that Boston may be the leader to sign catcher, Russell Martin.
Ya the Sox will sign Martin which is possibly another offensive upgrade over Varitek and Salty, but thats to be determined...

What Joe does leave out is that Gonzalez is going to see a huge increase in production being out of Petco and Fenway is the perfect hitting park for both Gonzalez and Crawford. It wouldnt be a stretch to see the two combine for 70HR and 100 doubles next year. Plus crawford will add 10-15 triples and his +40 SB over Beltre and Martinez will help the offense even further...

Of course Joe is a one dimensional kinda guy... to him its all about wins for pitcher and HRs for hitter... remember folks, thats why Sabathia was going to win the CY and King Felix wasnt.... how'd that work out for him?
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

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UNHWildCats wrote: Of course Joe is a one dimensional kinda guy... to him its all about wins for pitcher and HRs for hitter... remember folks, thats why Sabathia was going to win the CY and King Felix wasnt.... how'd that work out for him?
So says the guy whose team finished in third place last year.

Back in the summer, when I mentioned the importance of Sabathia's total of innings pitched as an important consideration in the Cy Young race, and you scoffed at the importance of innings pitched, I knew right then and there you never played a day in your life. :lol:

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by Silenoz »

Beltre was only good with the bat every 6 years anyways

In fact... he may be living proof of the "contract year" theory...

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by UNHWildCats »

JoltinJoe wrote:
UNHWildCats wrote: Of course Joe is a one dimensional kinda guy... to him its all about wins for pitcher and HRs for hitter... remember folks, thats why Sabathia was going to win the CY and King Felix wasnt.... how'd that work out for him?
So says the guy whose team finished in third place last year.

Back in the summer, when I mentioned the importance of Sabathia's total of innings pitched as an important consideration in the Cy Young race, and you scoffed at the importance of innings pitched, I knew right then and there you never played a day in your life. :lol:
If IP is soo vital to Cy Young awards why have 9 closers won the award. Yes IP is a part of it... but its not anywhere near the most important.

What if some rookie comes up in late June or an injured guy comes back in late June, goes 18-1 in 154 IP with a 1.64 ERA are you telling me he doesnt deserve the award cause he only pitched 154 innings?
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by JoltinJoe »

Silenoz wrote:Beltre was only good with the bat every 6 years anyways

In fact... he may be living proof of the "contract year" theory...
Regardless Beltre put up big numbers for the Sox last year that have to be replaced.

The Sox have added two great players, but they've lost two very productive players too.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by JoltinJoe »

UNHWildCats wrote:
JoltinJoe wrote:
So says the guy whose team finished in third place last year.

Back in the summer, when I mentioned the importance of Sabathia's total of innings pitched as an important consideration in the Cy Young race, and you scoffed at the importance of innings pitched, I knew right then and there you never played a day in your life. :lol:
If IP is soo vital to Cy Young awards why have 9 closers won the award. Yes IP is a part of it... but its not anywhere near the most important.

What if some rookie comes up in late June or an injured guy comes back in late June, goes 18-1 in 154 IP with a 1.64 ERA are you telling me he doesnt deserve the award cause he only pitched 154 innings?
When some rookie does that, we'll have that conversation. I like to deal with what really happens on the field.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by Silenoz »

JoltinJoe wrote:
Silenoz wrote:Beltre was only good with the bat every 6 years anyways

In fact... he may be living proof of the "contract year" theory...
Regardless Beltre put up big numbers for the Sox last year that have to be replaced.

The Sox have added two great players, but they've lost two very productive players too.
They spend a billion dollars every year on payroll, no reason they can't grab above-average-to-good player x

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by AppGuy04 »

Sox have made themselves into an AL favorite IMO

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by Gil Dobie »

AppGuy04 wrote:Sox have made themselves into an AL favorite IMO
Sox have made themselves better. I like Martinez to Detroit. Minnesota hasn't really improved on paper, but they always come up with a good team.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by AppGuy04 »

If the Yanks don't get Lee, they are in trouble IMO.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by DJH »

AppGuy04 wrote:If the Yanks don't get Lee, they are in trouble IMO.
I agree.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by clenz »

Gil Dobie wrote:
AppGuy04 wrote:Sox have made themselves into an AL favorite IMO
Sox have made themselves better. I like Martinez to Detroit. Minnesota hasn't really improved on paper, but they always come up with a good team.
It would still be nice if the family that owns the Twins would open up their fat fucking check book and bring some help in for Mauer and Morneau rather than depending on 2 or 3 "no names" to step up every year.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by DJH »

clenz wrote:
Gil Dobie wrote:
Sox have made themselves better. I like Martinez to Detroit. Minnesota hasn't really improved on paper, but they always come up with a good team.
It would still be nice if the family that owns the Twins would open up their fat fucking check book and bring some help in for Mauer and Morneau rather than depending on 2 or 3 "no names" to step up every year.
Um, do you realize how much money it cost them just to keep Mauer and Morneau?

They really do need to find some starting pitching to be a title contender. But you cannot say that they aren't spending their money.
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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

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DJH wrote:
clenz wrote: It would still be nice if the family that owns the Twins would open up their fat fucking check book and bring some help in for Mauer and Morneau rather than depending on 2 or 3 "no names" to step up every year.
Um, do you realize how much money it cost them just to keep Mauer and Morneau?

They really do need to find some starting pitching to be a title contender. But you cannot say that they aren't spending their money.
I said it would be nice for them to spend money on players to help Mauer and Morneau.

Do you realize just how rich the Pohland family is? At the time of his death he was one of the wealthiest American at and estimated 3.6 BILLION dollars. Mr. Pohlad’s estimated net worth, at the time of his death this past year, of $3.6 billion placed him No. 102 on the Forbes 400 list of wealthiest Americans this year. The Twins have the money, even with what they spent on the M and M boys, don't kid your self


A 2009 Forbes article showed the following: Carl Pohlad (Twins) was the richest then John Malone (Braves $2.2 billion), Mike Ilitch (Tigers, $1.6 billion), and Tom Hicks (Rangers) and George Steinbrenner (Yankees, tied $1.3 billion). Since that time Hicks has defaulted on $500million so I'd drop him off. Ted Lerner (Nationals) is now on the list with 3 billion and may be the richest individual owner

The richest "owner" is Rogers Communications, owners of the Jays, the company owns the Blue Jays and is worth $16.75 billion. Or perhaps The Chicago Tribune Company which owns its namesake as well as the Cubs, the L.A. Times and 11 other newspapers, 23 TV stations, Topix, CareerBuilder

Carl Pohlad died earlier this year. The Twins are now owned by Jim Pohlad (Carl's son), not sure if it was divided or the overall wealth of the family was divided so he may not belong on the list.

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Re: BREAKING: Red Sox Lose Beltre, Martinez

Post by UNHWildCats »

clenz wrote:
DJH wrote:
Um, do you realize how much money it cost them just to keep Mauer and Morneau?

They really do need to find some starting pitching to be a title contender. But you cannot say that they aren't spending their money.
I said it would be nice for them to spend money on players to help Mauer and Morneau.

Do you realize just how rich the Pohland family is? At the time of his death he was one of the wealthiest American at and estimated 3.6 BILLION dollars. Mr. Pohlad’s estimated net worth, at the time of his death this past year, of $3.6 billion placed him No. 102 on the Forbes 400 list of wealthiest Americans this year. The Twins have the money, even with what they spent on the M and M boys, don't kid your self


A 2009 Forbes article showed the following: Carl Pohlad (Twins) was the richest then John Malone (Braves $2.2 billion), Mike Ilitch (Tigers, $1.6 billion), and Tom Hicks (Rangers) and George Steinbrenner (Yankees, tied $1.3 billion). Since that time Hicks has defaulted on $500million so I'd drop him off. Ted Lerner (Nationals) is now on the list with 3 billion and may be the richest individual owner

The richest "owner" is Rogers Communications, owners of the Jays, the company owns the Blue Jays and is worth $16.75 billion. Or perhaps The Chicago Tribune Company which owns its namesake as well as the Cubs, the L.A. Times and 11 other newspapers, 23 TV stations, Topix, CareerBuilder

Carl Pohlad died earlier this year. The Twins are now owned by Jim Pohlad (Carl's son), not sure if it was divided or the overall wealth of the family was divided so he may not belong on the list.
the problem is not very many owners are going to drastically overspend profits... they enjoy owning teams, but arent willing to lose substantially from their personal wealth season after season
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