UW clinic to offer second trimester abortions!!!

[Appaholic]

All the more reason you keep the governments nose out of it. It's no one else's business. And I don't want to hear that crap about "stopping a murder or rape on the streets" from the hardliners...if it was only about precious human life, you'd be marching on Washington DEMANDING we stop bombing Iraq....

In every war, probably since the dawn of time, there have been civilian (and children) casualties. They are minimized, but really can't be avoided. ESPECIALLY in a war like that being fought in Iraq, where they hide behind their children, hide in their mosques, hide among their women. Yeah, it sucks Appy, but we can be as precise as possible and it's STILL going to happen.

I agree and I am not trying to persecute our military. Rather, I mean to persecute those lost souls who claim moral superiority, feign outrage and try to legislate others with regards to abortion while not making a peep about waging war on the one's who made it out of the vaginal tunnel intact.....I know and respect your position as it is consistent and not hypocritical....

[D1B]

This source says about 30% of pregnancies end in miscarriage:

http://www.healthsquare.com/fgwh/wh1ch27.htm

Good source, jon...thanks...

I don't know about you, but I would not consider 30% to me any where close to a majority...

Great, 30%, I've heard upwards of 80%. You got your strawman, now answer my question? Using 30%, that makes your god the single greatest abortionist in history. Why does your god abort so many fetuses and how can we stop him?

[D1B]

Then your god is worst murderer in history. Majority of pregnancies end up aborted by god.

Yup. You heard it hear first...D1B, Graduate of the Global Warming School of Research, informs all that "the majority" (that means "most") of all pregnancies are aborted by God. Dataset? or...

YOUR god performs abortions on an industrial scale. What are we going to do about it?

The only one performing abortions on an "industrial scale" are the murderers conducting assembly-line abortions at the clinics whose atrocities are so heinous, there is a specific class of medical malpractice law to handle the extreme frequency of occurrance. I would challenge you to find a post operative survey result that shows more victims who felt the procedure was "what they expected" or better, than victims who felt the procedure and outcome was "unsatisfactory".

One answer would be not to ban it. It's a women's health issue. Child bearing enslaves them and subjects them to dependence on fools like you and Tman.

This is good...you gotta be drunk...

First, the overwhelming majority of women have abortions for elective reasons, i.e., they don't want to disrupt their lifestyle, NOT FOR HEALTH REASONS.
http://www.pregnantpause.org/numbers/whyabort.htm

Second, child bearing only enslaves women who would be dumb enough to hook up with someone as irresponsible as yourself. Name calling; inability to control their temper; drug and alcohol dependencies; basically someone who has underachieved and now "takes out their self-hate" by redirecting towards others? Really, be honest with yourself. I can't imagine any other poster on these boards who more closely matches the profile of the stereotypical wife-beater.

As for myself...to save your wasted effort attempting to attack my credibility, I am still close friends with both of my ex-wives, having drinks with my first ex on a frequent basis (just last weekend, in fact), and as of a few weeks ago, was advised by my second wife she is filing for divorce from her current husband and would like to try and "work things out" and get back together. I'll bet you a small house in northern CA that if you ask either of them, they'd tell you our having children IN NO WAY induced a feeling or fear of subjugation or loss of identity or empowerment. I'll also wager AZGriz's house on his behalf, that if you asked the world famous Mrs. AZGriz, she'd also confirm having children did not diminish her or place her in fear of being "subjected" by her husband (...come to think of it, it's possible that AZGriz was in fear of being subjected...naw...probably shouldn't go there... ). So, you can give up trying to attack those who still have their heads screwed on and understand that murdering children for the sake of convenience or to "get back" at the father, is amoral and logically indefensible: Most understand a relationship is a continuous demonstration of altruism and sacrifice, but that altruism is always a two way street...and that's one requirement of a healthy relationship regardless of any other mutually agreed upon dynamic. If you have to be asked to give of yourself, you don't have a relationship.

In 90+ percent of all infanticide, "abortion" is merely a method whereby a small percentage of women with f(ked up values get to hurt the child's father via proxy murder. Period.

Tman, you are a seriously fukced up person.

[D1B]

One answer would be not to ban it. It's a women's health issue. Child bearing enslaves them and subjects them to dependence on fools like you and Tman.

Your god performs abortions daily on a massive scale. What should we do about it?

Killing an innocent is not a women's health issue...from the childs perspective...it's a murder warrent issued by no judge or jury, plain and simple...

Yeah, if you believe "an innocent" is real person versus a bundle of cells. According to your god, it aint. Cuz, if it was a real person then your god wouldn't be killing em. Do I have this right Col?

[Col Hogan]

Killing an innocent is not a women's health issue...from the childs perspective...it's a murder warrent issued by no judge or jury, plain and simple...

Yeah, if you believe "an innocent" is real person versus a bundle of cells. According to your god, it aint. Cuz, if it was a real person then your god wouldn't be killing em. Do I have this right Col?

No...

[D1B]

Yeah, if you believe "an innocent" is real person versus a bundle of cells. According to your god, it aint. Cuz, if it was a real person then your god wouldn't be killing em. Do I have this right Col?

No...

Then what's up?" Why does Jesus perform so many abortions? The clinic where my girlfriend gets her abortion does about 35 a week. God must do hundreds of thousands a day.

What gives? Why do you think abortion is murder, yet your god knocks any human abortionist out of the universe? You christians should be thinking abortion is a good thing seeing how Jesus is certainly a big fan.

[D1B]

Yeah, if you believe "an innocent" is real person versus a bundle of cells. According to your god, it aint. Cuz, if it was a real person then your god wouldn't be killing em. Do I have this right Col?

No...

Mr. Wizard, I don't wanna be a theologist anymoooooooore.



Drizzle, drazzle, dradle, drone - Time for this one to come home.

[Col Hogan]

D, I've never claimed to have a two-way conversation with Jesus, so I've never heard him say he performs abortions...you are the one making this claim...

The article jon linked talks about auto accidents an falls causing abortions...did Jesus cause these accidents...

You keep trying to bring religion into this arguement...I've never once offered up my religion...you are making assumptions...

Let's talk pure science for a moment...from the moment the little sperm implants itself into the little egg and starts reproducing cells, those cells have a distinctive DNA, different from the male and female "doners"...some scientists say this does not indicate a seperate life form, while some do...

I follow those scientists who believe this growing group of cells is indeed a seperate life form...

Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni, professor of pediatrics and obstetrics at the University of Pennsylvania, stated:

"I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception.... I submit that human life is present throughout this entire sequence from conception to adulthood and that any interruption at any point throughout this time constitutes a termination of human life....

I am no more prepared to say that these early stages [of development in the womb] represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty...is not a human being. This is human life at every stage."

Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard University Medical School: "It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive.... It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception.... Our laws, one function of which is to help preserve the lives of our people, should be based on accurate scientific data."

Dr. Hymie Gordon (Mayo Clinic): “By all criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

Dr. Jerome LeJeune, “the Father of Modern Genetics” (University of Descartes, Paris): “To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion . . . it is plain experimental evidence.”

Now, I'm sure you can find quotes that dispute this scientists...and that's the crux of this issue...

I've chosen my side...and you yours...

[D1B]

D, I've never claimed to have a two-way conversation with Jesus, so I've never heard him say he performs abortions...you are the one making this claim...

The article jon linked talks about auto accidents an falls causing abortions...did Jesus cause these accidents...

You keep trying to bring religion into this arguement...I've never once offered up my religion...you are making assumptions...

Let's talk pure science for a moment...from the moment the little sperm implants itself into the little egg and starts reproducing cells, those cells have a distinctive DNA, different from the male and female "doners"...some scientists say this does not indicate a seperate life form, while some do...

I follow those scientists who believe this growing group of cells is indeed a seperate life form...

Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni, professor of pediatrics and obstetrics at the University of Pennsylvania, stated:

"I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception.... I submit that human life is present throughout this entire sequence from conception to adulthood and that any interruption at any point throughout this time constitutes a termination of human life....

I am no more prepared to say that these early stages [of development in the womb] represent an incomplete human being than I would be to say that the child prior to the dramatic effects of puberty...is not a human being. This is human life at every stage."

Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth, Harvard University Medical School: "It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive.... It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception.... Our laws, one function of which is to help preserve the lives of our people, should be based on accurate scientific data."

Dr. Hymie Gordon (Mayo Clinic): “By all criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception.”

Dr. Jerome LeJeune, “the Father of Modern Genetics” (University of Descartes, Paris): “To accept the fact that after fertilization has taken place a new human has come into being is no longer a matter of taste or opinion . . . it is plain experimental evidence.”

Now, I'm sure you can find quotes that dispute this scientists...and that's the crux of this issue...

I've chosen my side...and you yours...

I think we're both on the same side. You love your god, unconditionally. He performs abortions and you are OK with that by default.

Cool with me.

[AZGrizFan]

D, I've never claimed to have a two-way conversation with Jesus, so I've never heard him say he performs abortions...you are the one making this claim...

The article jon linked talks about auto accidents an falls causing abortions...did Jesus cause these accidents...

You keep trying to bring religion into this arguement...I've never once offered up my religion...you are making assumptions...

Let's talk pure science for a moment...from the moment the little sperm implants itself into the little egg and starts reproducing cells, those cells have a distinctive DNA, different from the male and female "doners"...some scientists say this does not indicate a seperate life form, while some do...

I follow those scientists who believe this growing group of cells is indeed a seperate life form...
Now, I'm sure you can find quotes that dispute this scientists...and that's the crux of this issue...

I've chosen my side...and you yours...

I think we're both on the same side. You love your god, unconditionally. He performs abortions and you are OK with that by default.

Cool with me.

Only YOU, D, could interpret THAT as you two being on the same side.

[Col Hogan]

I think we're both on the same side. You love your god, unconditionally. He performs abortions and you are OK with that by default.

Cool with me.

Who says my God performs abortions...other than you...

[D1B]

I think we're both on the same side. You love your god, unconditionally. He performs abortions and you are OK with that by default.

Cool with me.

Only YOU, D, could interpret THAT as you two being on the same side.

Well, the Col just doesn't realize it, yet. He's caught up in the science and sides issue. Ultimately for people like him it comes down to their faith. If he's against abortion, then he does not love god unconditionally and is forced to question his faith.

However, If he loves god unconditionally, then he's got to be cool with abortions. God of course being the Joe Montana of abortionists. We're on the same side, essentially here and I do think Col is a good christian.

[Col Hogan]

Well, the Col just doesn't realize it, yet. He's caught up in the science and sides issue. Ultimately for people like him it comes down to their faith. If he's against abortion, then he does not love god unconditionally and is forced to question his faith.

However, If he loves god unconditionally, then he's got to be cool with abortions. God of course being the Joe Montana of abortionists. We're on the same side, essentially here and I do think Col is a good christian.

That is some of the most tortured logic I've ever seen...you jumped the Grand Canyon with that leap...

[D1B]

Well, the Col just doesn't realize it, yet. He's caught up in the science and sides issue. Ultimately for people like him it comes down to their faith. If he's against abortion, then he does not love god unconditionally and is forced to question his faith.

However, If he loves god unconditionally, then he's got to be cool with abortions. God of course being the Joe Montana of abortionists. We're on the same side, essentially here and I do think Col is a good christian.

That is some of the most tortured logic I've ever seen...you jumped the Grand Canyon with that leap...

Is god wrong then? That's a toughie. How could perfection be imperfect?

Where do those miscarried and aborted fetuses go? I suppose they go to heaven. Of course they haven't been baptized so the catholics might give them the business at the door.

Do they go up as fetuses? Boy, that would be a scene, everyone looking the same and all. Maybe god lets them develop up there, perhaps using angels as surrogates. Bet the catholics have a problem with that too. So they grow up in heaven where everything is cool. That would be a trip. What kind of person would result from such a life, never seeing bad or evil. How the F would you know what is good?

Inevitably, the situation will arise where they're face to face with their birth mother.

"Uh hello"
"Hi nice to meet you"
"Do you recognize me?"
"No, I'm sorry"
"You aborted me at the Jimmy Buffet concert in 1977"
"Really, I was not aware of it, that's terrible. I didn't even know I was pregant"
"Well, you were 3 weeks pregnant"
"Okaaaaay.So how have you been and why aint there any black people here?"


It's a crazy world indeed.

[Col Hogan]

That is some of the most tortured logic I've ever seen...you jumped the Grand Canyon with that leap...

Is god wrong then?

Wrong about what?? D, you've made some statements, but have not established any facts...

[D1B]

Is god wrong then?

Wrong about what?? D, you've made some statements, but have not established any facts...

Aborting so many fetuses, Silly.

[Col Hogan]

Wrong about what?? D, you've made some statements, but have not established any facts...

Aborting so many fetuses, Silly.

But you are the ONLY one saying God aborts fetuses...

[D1B]

Aborting so many fetuses, Silly.

But you are the ONLY one saying God aborts fetuses...

I know, I'm "Mavricky"

Who is doing it then. Most spontaneous abortions happen within days of conception and the mother isn't even aware. Who is killing these innocents I ask!!!!

[travelinman67]

Tman, you are a seriously fukced up person.

Oh, no! The wife-beater, infanticide advocate thinks I'm "seriously fukced up"

Coming from you, I take it as a compliment.

[D1B]

Tman, you are a seriously fukced up person.

Oh, no! The wife-beater, infanticide advocate thinks I'm "seriously fukced up"

Coming from you, I take it as a compliment.

Get some help.

[Col Hogan]

But you are the ONLY one saying God aborts fetuses...

I know, I'm "Mavricky"

Who is doing it then. Most spontaneous abortions happen within days of conception and the mother isn't even aware. Who is killing these innocents I ask!!!!

Who is causing cancer...

Who is causing Downs Syndrome...

Who is causing crop circles...UFOs...

[travelinman67]

Most spontaneous abortions happen within days of conception and the mother isn't even aware. Who is killing these innocents I ask!!!!

Once again, you are citing as fact something that cannot be proven. Here, let me try.

You, my friend, have fathered thousands of children with teens, that were terminated by God to spare the teen the embarassment of parenting a "D1B" child!

There...see how that works

[D1B]

I know, I'm "Mavricky"

Who is doing it then. Most spontaneous abortions happen within days of conception and the mother isn't even aware. Who is killing these innocents I ask!!!!

Who is causing cancer...

Who is causing Downs Syndrome...

Who is causing crop circles...UFOs...

I know genetics has alot to do with it. Hey everyone's gonna die.

But these children? So young? Why would god design a procreation factory with at least a 30% failure rate? Who could do that? In the music industry, 30% would be stellar, but we're talkin bout children here.

[travelinman67]

Oh, no! The wife-beater, infanticide advocate thinks I'm "seriously fukced up"

Coming from you, I take it as a compliment.

Get some help.

I'm not the one advocating the murder of children, then attempting to shift the debate to some theological assessment of God's culpability for an as yet unproven "violation" of creation.

You can dance in circles day after day, J, but the fact remains, you have NO ethical footing to stand on and are too proud (foolish) to acknowledge it.

[D1B]

Most spontaneous abortions happen within days of conception and the mother isn't even aware. Who is killing these innocents I ask!!!!

Once again, you are citing as fact something that cannot be proven. Here, let me try.

You, my friend, have fathered thousands of children with teens, that were terminated by God to spare the teen the embarassment of parenting a "D1B" child!

There...see how that works

Oh Yea, Tub O' Lard?

Read it and weep:

Miscarriage refers to a pregnancy that ends at any period during the first twenty weeks of pregnancy. The medical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. While a miscarriage usually resolves without physical complications, women often experience emotional complications such as anger, grief and depression.
Spontaneous Abortion Incidence Rates
Between twenty and fifty percent of pregnancies end in miscarriage. The vast majority of spontaneous abortion cases occur during the early weeks of the pregnancy. In most cases, signs of miscarriage during the initial stages of pregnancy are undetectable, and the woman may not even be aware she was pregnant, or that she had a miscarriage

pregnancyfacts.com