Rafael Soriano to Yankees

[GannonFan]

So? Howard's got a career OPS+ of 140 and you've already dismissed him as a "mistake hitter prone to K's". I'm not going to miss the .139 BA with 2 outs and runners in scoring position. That gave Werth an sOPS+ of 89 in that category last year.

Howard may have a career OPS+ over 140, but he is not the same hitter he was a few years ago, when he hit well over .300 and had nearly 60 dingers.

He's a .260-.270 guy now, and that was with Werth supporting him. Pitchers are getting Howard more and more to chase the pitcher's pitch.

He's almost always been a .260-.270 guy (only hit under .260 once though) - the only time he hit .300 was in '06 (when Werth wasn't even there yet). And really, he had an OPS+ of 141 in '09 so it's not like that's ancient history or something. And the last two years pitchers started to see that they could pitch around Howard and not be burned because Werth was starting to be all Bobby Abreu-like and focus on boosting numbers like walks so that guys like you could talk on message boards about how good his OPS numbers were. It didn't help last year as well that Werth started to mysteriously not be able to hit LHP anymore, especially for power. His right handed stick was supposed to support Howard in that regard - however, it became apparent that lefties didn't need to fear Werth as the year went on. Werth was certainly a good player, no doubt about it, but his game had some significant holes in it, especially as of late.

[JoltinJoe]

What I said before is Ws are the most important factor in Cy Young voting.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought we were talking about something else here.

Now you're just covering your losses - sure, it was in the context of Cy Young voting that you talked about wins and the value to judging a pitcher, but you were very clear that a pitcher should be judged, Cy Young or not, by the ability for them to help their team win, whether they give up 0 runs or 10 - you were the Al Davis equivalent in that regard - "just wins baby". Now, since Glavine and Maddux both have losing records in the postseason, you are suddenly abandoning the idea that wins are the true measure of a pitcher's worth and are now falling back on things like run support and things like that. Trying to have your cake and eat it too apparently.

Nope, we're still talking about the same thing - you think the Phils are the 2011 version of the 90's Braves, while trying to prop up Maddux and Glavine as "great" post season pitchers, of course, with losing records. Maddux and Glavine were good post season pitchers, nothing more. Heck, Maddux's stats were much worse in the postseason than regular season and Glavine about the same. That's not "great" postseason pitchers. Look at Smoltz, Schilling, Lee, Halladay, et al - now those are truly "great" postseason pitchers. Heck, the Phils have two of them, and that's not even including WS MVP Hamels and Oswalt. Hmmm.

Look, you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that Felix Hernandez was not an excellent pitcher. I only said that he won 13 games and that's not good enough for Cy Young. I even agreed that he suffered from a lack of run support, but that's the way it goes. He pitched well enough that he should have won more games, but he didn't.

That was the fate of Maddux and Glavine in post-season play. The gave their teams solid outings but their offense wasn't good enough for post-season competition. And I predict that's what will happen this post-season to the Phillies. The offense just isn't there. In the post-season, a good team will force enough games into the bullpens, and the Phillies will lose most of those games.

[Gil Dobie]

Look, you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that Felix Hernandez was not an excellent pitcher. I only said that he won 13 games and that's not good enough for Cy Young. I even agreed that he suffered from a lack of run support, but that's the way it goes. He pitched well enough that he should have won more games, but he didn't.

Felix was good, but his Mariners scored more runs than the 1972 Phillies when Steve Carlton was 27-10 with a better era and over 300 K's.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't see the Yankees or Phillies winning the world series this year. I don't see the starting pitching in NY or the relief pitching in Philly. Giants have a pretty good rotation and bullpen, and as you can see from last year, just need enough offense to score 1 more run than the opponent.

[free7694]

You know the old saying, any time you can give up a 1st-round pick and $35 million for a setup man with no other offers, you have to do it.

Good job, Yankees, you just paid a setup man more per year than the Rockies paid Carlos Gonzalez.

[JoltinJoe]

I don't see the Yankees or Phillies winning the world series this year. I don't see the starting pitching in NY or the relief pitching in Philly. Giants have a pretty good rotation and bullpen, and as you can see from last year, just need enough offense to score 1 more run than the opponent.

Gil, it's a long season. The Yankees will get that starter when he becomes available.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't see the Yankees or Phillies winning the world series this year. I don't see the starting pitching in NY or the relief pitching in Philly. Giants have a pretty good rotation and bullpen, and as you can see from last year, just need enough offense to score 1 more run than the opponent.

Gil, it's a long season. The Yankees will get that starter when he becomes available.

To misquote Pink Floyd, "Hello, is there anybody out there". Who will be available, Felix, Jiminez, Santana, Verlander, really not a lot of great pitchers, maybe someone in the Carl Pavano mold, or Carl Pavano

[ToTheLeft]

The Rays signed Kyle Farnsworth.

Hmmm, the Rays picking up a reliever from Atlanta on a one year deal... where do I remember that from.

Next season expect a ton of hooplah for "Kyle Farnsworth back to the Yankees" on a 3 year 35 million dollar deal.

But seriously, I like a couple of the moves the Rays have made this offseason. I think we'll be just as competitive as ever. The Sox and Yanks will always be stacked. It's just part of the game for us. The AL East is going to be nuts this season.

[JMU DJ]

Phillies had the second best offense in the NL last season... losing Werth takes away some of that offensive production, but as we know, baseball is a team sport and he wasn't the only player on that team. Francisco has come into his own and there are Brown and Mayberry who had good showings last year. I'd expect one of them to fit in nicely around Howard and Utley.


Soriano puts a band-aide over the gaping wound that is the Yankees starting pitching... what if Pettitte retires Joe? You're stuck with an inconsistent Hughs, an underachieving Burnette and two young, unknown pitchers. Picking up ONE pitcher as they become available throughout the season isn't really going to help that hodgepodge out much.

[Col Hogan]

This signing is some of the best news of the off-season, so far...

Because it proves two things...the G.M. is no longer in control...that has gone back to the steinbrenner's (idiots)...and because Soriano will be a cancer in the bullpen, just like he was in Tampa...

Just two weeks before signing free agent Soriano, necessitating giving Tampa a first round draft pick, The Yankees G.M. stated he would never give up a top draft pick for a free agent...but the steinbrenner brothers wanted a big name, so the G.M. was forced to do what he said he would never do...

And Soriano was a whiney troublemaker in Tampa...openly arguing with his manager over things like pitching in a non-save situation...now, he's going to be a set-up man.....

I am thrilled by this development...

[GannonFan]

I don't see the Yankees or Phillies winning the world series this year. I don't see the starting pitching in NY or the relief pitching in Philly. Giants have a pretty good rotation and bullpen, and as you can see from last year, just need enough offense to score 1 more run than the opponent.

Gil, it's a long season. The Yankees will get that starter when he becomes available.

Yup, just like they did last year when they needed one.

[JoltinJoe]

This signing is some of the best news of the off-season, so far...

Because it proves two things...the G.M. is no longer in control...that has gone back to the steinbrenner's (idiots)...and because Soriano will be a cancer in the bullpen, just like he was in Tampa...

Just two weeks before signing free agent Soriano, necessitating giving Tampa a first round draft pick, The Yankees G.M. stated he would never give up a top draft pick for a free agent...but the steinbrenner brothers wanted a big name, so the G.M. was forced to do what he said he would never do...

And Soriano was a whiney troublemaker in Tampa...openly arguing with his manager over things like pitching in a non-save situation...now, he's going to be a set-up man.....

I am thrilled by this development...

I think he'll be fine being a set-up man. He signed onto the deal knowing what his role would be. Being the set-up man is easier to take when you're being paid closer money to do the job. This guy saved 45 games last year with a .8 WHIP and 1.7 ERA. The Yankees are going to be tough to beat if they're up after 7.

I agree that they need to fortify the middle of the rotation, but I do think having openings will allow for a assessment of whether a solution is already in the system. Too many times the Yankees don't allow a kid a chance to make the big team as a pitcher. That's not the case this year.

[Col Hogan]

This signing is some of the best news of the off-season, so far...

Because it proves two things...the G.M. is no longer in control...that has gone back to the steinbrenner's (idiots)...and because Soriano will be a cancer in the bullpen, just like he was in Tampa...

Just two weeks before signing free agent Soriano, necessitating giving Tampa a first round draft pick, The Yankees G.M. stated he would never give up a top draft pick for a free agent...but the steinbrenner brothers wanted a big name, so the G.M. was forced to do what he said he would never do...

And Soriano was a whiney troublemaker in Tampa...openly arguing with his manager over things like pitching in a non-save situation...now, he's going to be a set-up man.....

I am thrilled by this development...

I think he'll be fine being a set-up man. He signed onto the deal knowing what his role would be. Being the set-up man is easier to take when you're being paid closer money to do the job. This guy saved 45 games last year with a .8 WHIP and 1.7 ERA. The Yankees are going to be tough to beat if they're up after 7.

I agree that they need to fortify the middle of the rotation, but I do think having openings will allow for a assessment of whether a solution is already in the system. Too many times the Yankees don't allow a kid a chance to make the big team as a pitcher. That's not the case this year.

And you totally avoided the turd in the punch bowl...the steinbrenner brothers taking control over a veteran (and very good) baseball General Manager...

[JoltinJoe]

I think he'll be fine being a set-up man. He signed onto the deal knowing what his role would be. Being the set-up man is easier to take when you're being paid closer money to do the job. This guy saved 45 games last year with a .8 WHIP and 1.7 ERA. The Yankees are going to be tough to beat if they're up after 7.

I agree that they need to fortify the middle of the rotation, but I do think having openings will allow for a assessment of whether a solution is already in the system. Too many times the Yankees don't allow a kid a chance to make the big team as a pitcher. That's not the case this year.

And you totally avoided the turd in the punch bowl...the steinbrenner brothers taking control over a veteran (and very good) baseball General Manager...

Hey, Prince Hal and Hammerin' Hank are now the bosses. While I respect Cashman, I can't see paying over the No. 31 pick in the June draft as a huge issue. Yes, I know both the Sox and the Rays have tons of early picks, but the baseball draft is much more a crap shoot than any other professional sports draft. I like the pick up. The only issue is they overpaid for a set-up man, but they are really getting a closer ... and besides it's the Steinbrenner's money, so if they want to spend it, go ahead.

[clenz]

It's funny that whip and ERA were worthless to Joe when talked about the Cy Young - but now that they favor a Yankmee it is the Bible

[JoltinJoe]

Well, of course, I never said ERA an WHIP were worthless. I simply said wins were a more important factor in Cy Young consideration. It's funny how dense some people around here can be.

I also said the pitching match-ups in the Yankees-Twins series weighed heavily in favor of the Yankees, and you scoffed when I predicted a sweep.