Islam and the Intolerance Problem

[native]

In a Real Clear Politics article, Cathy Young compares the Gifford shooting to the popular and routine state supported violent discrimination against non-muslims in muslim countries:

"While the attempted murder of an American Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, has prompted an outpouring of grief and soul-searching, the fatal shooting of a prominent elected official in another country around the same time has provoked a very different reaction. After Salman Taseer, governor of the Pakistani province of Punjab, was murdered by his own bodyguard, there was a wave of support for the murderer -- from religious figures and ordinary citizens, from several political parties, and even from a group of lawyers. The reason? Taseer had spoken out against Pakistan's blasphemy laws and in support of Aasia Bibi, a Christian woman sentenced to death for allegedly insulting the Prophet Muhammad...."

"...There is not a single majority Christian nation today that executes or imprisons people for blasphemy or apostasy. Several leading majority-Muslim countries punish these offenses with death, including Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan...."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 08638.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Appaholic]

[Vidav]

In a Real Clear Politics article, Cathy Young compares the Gifford shooting to the popular and routine state supported violent discrimination against non-muslims in muslim countries:

"While the attempted murder of an American Congresswoman, Gabrielle Giffords, has prompted an outpouring of grief and soul-searching, the fatal shooting of a prominent elected official in another country around the same time has provoked a very different reaction. After Salman Taseer, governor of the Pakistani province of Punjab, was murdered by his own bodyguard, there was a wave of support for the murderer -- from religious figures and ordinary citizens, from several political parties, and even from a group of lawyers. The reason? Taseer had spoken out against Pakistan's blasphemy laws and in support of Aasia Bibi, a Christian woman sentenced to death for allegedly insulting the Prophet Muhammad...."

"...There is not a single majority Christian nation today that executes or imprisons people for blasphemy or apostasy. Several leading majority-Muslim countries punish these offenses with death, including Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan...."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 08638.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ireland's blasphemy law:

Section 13 of the Defamation Act, 1961 prescribed penalties for blasphemous libel, but did not define the offence, which was presumed still to be the common-law offence. The new maximum penalties were seven years' penal servitude, or two years' imprisonment and a £500 fine.

New Zealand:

In New Zealand, Section 123 of the Crimes Act 1961 allows for imprisonment up to one year for anyone who publishes any "blasphemous libel".

There are others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes most aren't really enforced but they can be. . .

[Chizzang]

In America we certainly have our work cut out for us in regards to keeping the nut-balls away from our political system but all-in-all we've done a respectable job at maintaining civility...

The world works better if religion is handled publicly like a "Penis"
1) Keep it to yourself
2) Don't whip it out in public
3) Nobody really wants to see yours or talk about either

In the battle of Religion is like a Penis:
Islam is losing the battle of maintaining control over the fervor and self righteousness created by "Religion unchecked" and it seems only to be getting worse...

Now kudos to the American Religious Right for rewriting American history to bolster a political agenda - it's an old trick - and the old tricks are the best tricks

Any attentive high school student knows most of the Founders were Deists and Unitarians
Thomas Jefferson dismissed the Trinity as "incomprehensible jargon."

He and other Founders made no mention of God in the Constitution (I checked it's not in there) and took pains not to establish an official church on US soil. And yet, as various scholars have noted, disestablishment grew out of respect, not disdain, for religion, which James Madison observed "flourishes in greater purity without rather than with the aid of government."

Something the Tea Party will never understand...

[YoUDeeMan]

A thread about the intolerence of Islam, and the approved killing of Islamic political figures due to their tolerence, and somehow Jizzball ends his post with a shot across the bow of the Tea Party's religious intolerence, despite the fact that many Tea Party people don't give a crap about religion and many actually want a smaller government that stays the hell out of the people's business (including religion).

Wow.

[CID1990]

In America we certainly have our work cut out for us in regards to keeping the nut-balls away from our political system but all-in-all we've done a respectable job at maintaining civility...

The world works better if religion is handled publicly like a "Penis"
1) Keep it to yourself
2) Don't whip it out in public
3) Nobody really wants to see yours or talk about either

In the battle of Religion is like a Penis:
Islam is losing the battle of maintaining control over the fervor and self righteousness created by "Religion unchecked" and it seems only to be getting worse...

Now kudos to the American Religious Right for rewriting American history to bolster a political agenda - it's an old trick - and the old tricks are the best tricks

Any attentive high school student knows most of the Founders were Deists and Unitarians
Thomas Jefferson dismissed the Trinity as "incomprehensible jargon."

He and other Founders made no mention of God in the Constitution (I checked it's not in there) and took pains not to establish an official church on US soil. And yet, as various scholars have noted, disestablishment grew out of respect, not disdain, for religion, which James Madison observed "flourishes in greater purity without rather than with the aid of government."

Something the Tea Party will never understand...

I identify more closely with the Tea Party than with the Republican Party and I don't give a sh!t about religion.

"It's the government, stupid."

[Chizzang]

I see reading comprehension is about where it was when I last logged in...

I believe I mention several points
1) Keeping religion out of Politics
2) We've done a pretty good job here in the US
3) There is a global battle being waged where the Religiosity & political are being combined
4) this combination works poorly

You guys seem a little sensitive about the nut-balls - apparently you identify with them
Frankly any political movement as closely tied to religion as the Tea Party is - I can't really take seriously - and religion comes up in every single Tea Party debate that lasts more than 3 minutes

Sorry but they are tied together (for better or worse)
The Tea Party would be more interesting to me if it were strictly a Political Movement

[kalm]

In America we certainly have our work cut out for us in regards to keeping the nut-balls away from our political system but all-in-all we've done a respectable job at maintaining civility...

The world works better if religion is handled publicly like a "Penis"
1) Keep it to yourself
2) Don't whip it out in public
3) Nobody really wants to see yours or talk about either

In the battle of Religion is like a Penis:
Islam is losing the battle of maintaining control over the fervor and self righteousness created by "Religion unchecked" and it seems only to be getting worse...

Now kudos to the American Religious Right for rewriting American history to bolster a political agenda - it's an old trick - and the old tricks are the best tricks

Any attentive high school student knows most of the Founders were Deists and Unitarians
Thomas Jefferson dismissed the Trinity as "incomprehensible jargon."

He and other Founders made no mention of God in the Constitution (I checked it's not in there) and took pains not to establish an official church on US soil. And yet, as various scholars have noted, disestablishment grew out of respect, not disdain, for religion, which James Madison observed "flourishes in greater purity without rather than with the aid of government."

Something the Tea Party will never understand...

I identify more closely with the Tea Party than with the Republican Party and I don't give a sh!t about religion.

."

Hey, me too!

[native]

I see reading comprehension is about where it was when I last logged in...

I believe I mention several points
1) Keeping religion out of Politics
2) We've done a pretty good job here in the US
3) There is a global battle being waged where the Religiosity & political are being combined
4) this combination works poorly

You guys seem a little sensitive about the nut-balls - apparently you identify with them
Frankly any political movement as closely tied to religion as the Tea Party is - I can't really take seriously - and religion comes up in every single Tea Party debate that lasts more than 3 minutes

Sorry but they are tied together (for better or worse)
The Tea Party would be more interesting to me if it were strictly a Political Movement

It's not about reading comprehension, cleets. It's about unverifiable and misleading assumptions in some of your posts.

"'The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.' "

[D1B]

I see reading comprehension is about where it was when I last logged in...

I believe I mention several points
1) Keeping religion out of Politics
2) We've done a pretty good job here in the US
3) There is a global battle being waged where the Religiosity & political are being combined
4) this combination works poorly

You guys seem a little sensitive about the nut-balls - apparently you identify with them
Frankly any political movement as closely tied to religion as the Tea Party is - I can't really take seriously - and religion comes up in every single Tea Party debate that lasts more than 3 minutes

Sorry but they are tied together (for better or worse)
The Tea Party would be more interesting to me if it were strictly a Political Movement

CID and Naive are religous nutjobs.

We've done a pretty good and by "We" you mean secularists, atheists, capitalists and the non-religious - then yes, we've done a pretty good job.

If the religious had their way, we'd be beheading people for blasphemy and burning witches like we used to in this country.

[houndawg]

I identify more closely with the Tea Party than with the Republican Party and I don't give a sh!t about religion.

."

Hey, me too!

Likewise!

Let's all get some beer and hold hands and sing folk songs!

[Wedgebuster]

Speaking of nutballs, I see Michelle Bachmann gets to do the loony bin version of SOTU retort tonight.


Very special.

[Gil Dobie]

We've done a pretty good and by "We" you mean secularists, atheists, capitalists and the non-religious - then yes, we've done a pretty good job.

If the religious had their way, we'd be beheading people for blasphemy and burning witches like we used to in this country.

Loughner was a non-believer, anti-religious person from what I've read on BBC, proving again wack-jobs can come from any persuasion. Nations have also executed people for being religious and not being of the same religion as the state sponsors. We are a nation that allows a person to be religious in a traditional church going way, non-religious Atheists, Pantheist, or any secular beliefs. I have no problem with members of any of these beliefs serving the people in our government as long as they don't bring their religious doctrine into play for everyone. I tend to look at a candidate and see what they want to do for the people and the country, not what they want to do for the party, money and power.

[D1B]

We've done a pretty good and by "We" you mean secularists, atheists, capitalists and the non-religious - then yes, we've done a pretty good job.

If the religious had their way, we'd be beheading people for blasphemy and burning witches like we used to in this country.

Loughner was a non-believer, anti-religious person from what I've read on BBC, proving again wack-jobs can come from any persuasion. Nations have also executed people for being religious and not being of the same religion as the state sponsors. We are a nation that allows a person to be religious in a traditional church going way, non-religious Atheists, Pantheist, or any secular beliefs. I have no problem with members of any of these beliefs serving the people in our government as long as they don't bring their religious doctrine into play for everyone. I tend to look at a candidate and see what they want to do for the people and the country, not what they want to do for the party, money and power.

Laughner didn't kill in the name of atheism.

[Gil Dobie]

Loughner was a non-believer, anti-religious person from what I've read on BBC, proving again wack-jobs can come from any persuasion. Nations have also executed people for being religious and not being of the same religion as the state sponsors. We are a nation that allows a person to be religious in a traditional church going way, non-religious Atheists, Pantheist, or any secular beliefs. I have no problem with members of any of these beliefs serving the people in our government as long as they don't bring their religious doctrine into play for everyone. I tend to look at a candidate and see what they want to do for the people and the country, not what they want to do for the party, money and power.

Laughner didn't kill in the name of atheism.

I didn't even say he was an Atheist, but if you want to claim him, go ahead.

[D1B]

Laughner didn't kill in the name of atheism.

I didn't even say he was an Atheist, but if you want to claim him, go ahead.

I beleive in a higher power.

Laughner didn't kill in the name non-believerism.

[Chizzang]

I think the point of this thread was that Islam has had poor success globally combining it's religious intolerance and Political movements...

For a country that's a bit "torn" right now I think we're doing a pretty good job of keeping the nut-balls from editing the founding paperwork... which they yearn to do

My point was:
There is a new political movement in this country that has some similar characteristics as the Islamic movements where it has become (sadly) intertwined with religion instead of remaining completely and independently a "Political" movement

[D1B]

I think the point of this thread was that Islam has had poor success globally combining it's religious intolerance and Political movements...

For a country that's a bit "torn" right now I think we're doing a pretty good job of keeping the nut-balls from editing the founding paperwork... which they yearn to do

My point was:
There is a new political movement in this country that has some similar characteristics as the Islamic movements where it has become (sadly) intertwined with religion instead of remaining completely and independently a "Political" movement

Everyone gets your point, except for the religious nutjobs here. They don't understand anything outside of total fascist theocracy.

[Gil Dobie]

I didn't even say he was an Atheist, but if you want to claim him, go ahead.

I beleive in a higher power.

Laughner didn't kill in the name non-believerism.

My point was wack-jobs can come from any sector.
What he killed in the name of...........is another discussion.

[Chizzang]

I beleive in a higher power.

Laughner didn't kill in the name non-believerism.

My point was wack-jobs can come from any sector.
What he killed in the name of...........is another discussion.

Right but D1B's point was that whack-jobs that are simply just insane don't go after the Constitution and don't spend their time trying to re-write our history to conform to their belief system and don't tend to be anything other than just crazy - they aren't starting a MOVEMENT

[CID1990]

I see reading comprehension is about where it was when I last logged in...

I believe I mention several points
1) Keeping religion out of Politics
2) We've done a pretty good job here in the US
3) There is a global battle being waged where the Religiosity & political are being combined
4) this combination works poorly

You guys seem a little sensitive about the nut-balls - apparently you identify with them
Frankly any political movement as closely tied to religion as the Tea Party is - I can't really take seriously - and religion comes up in every single Tea Party debate that lasts more than 3 minutes

Sorry but they are tied together (for better or worse)
The Tea Party would be more interesting to me if it were strictly a Political Movement

CID and Naive are religous nutjobs.

We've done a pretty good and by "We" you mean secularists, atheists, capitalists and the non-religious - then yes, we've done a pretty good job.

If the religious had their way, we'd be beheading people for blasphemy and burning witches like we used to in this country.

You're an idiot.

Show me where I have come out as being anything approaching religious and I'll blow you on Main Street during the Easter Parade, you fat fvck.

If I take a position that dovetails with any popular religious platform it comes from my own sense of morality and upbringing. I am an agnostic at best. Sh!t, I haven't been to church since I left the farm at 17.

[D1B]

CID and Naive are religous nutjobs.

We've done a pretty good and by "We" you mean secularists, atheists, capitalists and the non-religious - then yes, we've done a pretty good job.

If the religious had their way, we'd be beheading people for blasphemy and burning witches like we used to in this country.

You're an idiot.

Show me where I have come out as being anything approaching religious and I'll blow you on Main Street during the Easter Parade, you fat fvck.

If I take a position that dovetails with any popular religious platform it comes from my own sense of morality and upbringing. I am an agnostic at best. Sh!t, I haven't been to church since I left the farm at 17.

You're just a conk fuck/social darwinist is all. It's the morons you hang out with.

[AZGrizFan]

You're an idiot.

Show me where I have come out as being anything approaching religious and I'll blow you on Main Street during the Easter Parade, you fat fvck.

If I take a position that dovetails with any popular religious platform it comes from my own sense of morality and upbringing. I am an agnostic at best. Sh!t, I haven't been to church since I left the farm at 17.

You're just a conk fuck/social darwinist is all. It's the morons you hang out with.

...as opposed to the morons D1B hangs out with....

[Gil Dobie]

You're just a conk ****/social darwinist is all. It's the morons you hang out with.

...as opposed to the morons D1B hangs out with....

He does live in the vicinity of the People's Republic of Madison.

[Ibanez]

I think the point of this thread was that Islam has had poor success globally combining it's religious intolerance and Political movements...

For a country that's a bit "torn" right now I think we're doing a pretty good job of keeping the nut-balls from editing the founding paperwork... which they yearn to do

My point was:
There is a new political movement in this country that has some similar characteristics as the Islamic movements where it has become (sadly) intertwined with religion instead of remaining completely and independently a "Political" movement

Everyone gets your point, except for the religious nutjobs here. They don't understand anything outside of total fascist theocracy.

Stop using big words, you'll just end up dumbing it down for them.


btw, when did we behead people?