Bill O'Reilly

[kalm]

I won't deny that there is profound wisdom in other philosophy and theologies; however, it is the idea that we are drawn to something, and at least in my mind, the necessary converse that this something must also be drawn to us (and, indeed, is perfectly drawn to us) which, in a nutshell, makes the Incarnation an inevitably, in my mind. Yes, I agree, we are made of it.

I also don't think we're being tricked down here. If there is a personal, loving God, he must be manifesting himself to us in the form of a major world religion.

Wow, that's a mighty big if and an even bigger must.

Or it could be manifesting itself in some or all of the world's major religions. That's what many Muslims think about the other monotheistic religions.

[houndawg]

It's O'Reily's happy place. When backed in to a corner about god inexplicably manifesting itself in ridiculous dogma systems like catholocism, american jesus for profit clubs, and islam, he goes for "the tides'. You do the same with "god is what is". Its your safe house. Step even one toe out though, and you're toast.

Actually, you're the flip side of O'Reilly, i.e., you oversimplify for the purpose of ridicule. You just do it from a lefty's perspective.

I seem to recall a thread of about Stephen Hawking's book in which I pretty carefully dissected him using a broader grasp of metaphysics than simply saying what"God is."

I think the universe was created out of something. You, like Hawking, think that all this come out of nothing. In truth, the latter belief requires far more assumptions and much more faith that the former. But you are a "rationalist."

You're like one of those judges who rail against activist judges and then a few days later tries to strike down 150 years of settled law.

There is no such thing as "nothing". Even empty space is seething with energy at the quantum level. Energy and mass are the same thing, so everything was "created" out of something. See quantum vacuum fluctuations, m-theory, Calabi-Yau spaces, Theory of Everything.

Try a more modern approach, Joe, it doesn't preclude the existence of God.

[D1B]

Wow, that's a mighty big if and an even bigger must.

Or it could be manifesting itself in some or all of the world's major religions. That's what many Muslims think about the other monotheistic religions.

Joe's hopeful, but wrong IMO. God, as envisioned by Joe, should manifest itself with a high degree of uniformity within all the worlds religions. God is god. God is what is. Someone praying in St. Peters should see/experience god the same way as someone kneeling in a mosque in Iraq, meditating in India, or praying/paying in a drive-in church in Mississippi.

The fact that god's incarnations are so numerous and so different, to the point where we kill each other, throughout the world, is further proof it's folly to even attempt to define what is beyond nature (god) and our current attempts/religions are constructs of man.

[kalm]

Or it could be manifesting itself in some or all of the world's major religions. That's what many Muslims think about the other monotheistic religions.

Joe's hopeful, but wrong IMO. God, as envisioned by Joe, should manifest itself with a high degree of uniformity within all the worlds religions. God is god. God is what is. Someone praying in St. Peters should see/experience god the same way as someone kneeling in a mosque in Iraq, meditating in India, or praying/paying in a drive-in church in Mississippi.

The fact that god's incarnations are so numerous and so different, to the point where we kill each other, throughout the world, is further proof it's folly to even attempt to define what is beyond nature (god) and our current attempts/religions are constructs of man.

I was just trying to bait the "but it's a religion of peace guys".

Sheeesh!

[D1B]

Joe's hopeful, but wrong IMO. God, as envisioned by Joe, should manifest itself with a high degree of uniformity within all the worlds religions. God is god. God is what is. Someone praying in St. Peters should see/experience god the same way as someone kneeling in a mosque in Iraq, meditating in India, or praying/paying in a drive-in church in Mississippi.

The fact that god's incarnations are so numerous and so different, to the point where we kill each other, throughout the world, is further proof it's folly to even attempt to define what is beyond nature (god) and our current attempts/religions are constructs of man.

I was just trying to bait the "but it's a religion of peace guys".

Sheeesh!

It is a religion of peace. Unfortunately it's also a religion of death, war, misery and intolerance.

[JoltinJoe]

Actually, you're the flip side of O'Reilly, i.e., you oversimplify for the purpose of ridicule. You just do it from a lefty's perspective.

I seem to recall a thread of about Stephen Hawking's book in which I pretty carefully dissected him using a broader grasp of metaphysics than simply saying what"God is."

I think the universe was created out of something. You, like Hawking, think that all this come out of nothing. In truth, the latter belief requires far more assumptions and much more faith that the former. But you are a "rationalist."

You're like one of those judges who rail against activist judges and then a few days later tries to strike down 150 years of settled law.

There is no such thing as "nothing". Even empty space is seething with energy at the quantum level. Energy and mass are the same thing, so everything was "created" out of something. See quantum vacuum fluctuations, m-theory, Calabi-Yau spaces, Theory of Everything.

Try a more modern approach, Joe, it doesn't preclude the existence of God.

I think are getting this backward.

"Nothing" is Hawking's word, not mine. If you have a bone to pick, pick it with him. I agree with you that "nothing" is impossible, but when Hawking says the universe spontaneously created itself from nothing, he really means that literally.

http://www.examiner.com/creationism-in- ... om-nothing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Grizalltheway]

It's O'Reily's happy place. When backed in to a corner about god inexplicably manifesting itself in ridiculous dogma systems like catholocism, american jesus for profit clubs, and islam, he goes for "the tides'. You do the same with "god is what is". Its your safe house. Step even one toe out though, and you're toast.

Actually, you're the flip side of O'Reilly, i.e., you oversimplify for the purpose of ridicule. You just do it from a lefty's perspective.

I seem to recall a thread of about Stephen Hawking's book in which I pretty carefully dissected him using a broader grasp of metaphysics than simply saying what"God is."

I think the universe was created out of something. You, like Hawking, think that all this come out of nothing. In truth, the latter belief requires far more assumptions and much more faith that the former. But you are a "rationalist."

You're like one of those judges who rail against activist judges and then a few days later tries to strike down 150 years of settled law.

BS. Saying that "God always has been, and always will be" is based on nothing more than what a bunch of ignorant people two-thousand years ago came up with to explain their existence. It's a cop-out, plain and simple.

[JoltinJoe]

Actually, you're the flip side of O'Reilly, i.e., you oversimplify for the purpose of ridicule. You just do it from a lefty's perspective.

I seem to recall a thread of about Stephen Hawking's book in which I pretty carefully dissected him using a broader grasp of metaphysics than simply saying what"God is."

I think the universe was created out of something. You, like Hawking, think that all this come out of nothing. In truth, the latter belief requires far more assumptions and much more faith that the former. But you are a "rationalist."

You're like one of those judges who rail against activist judges and then a few days later tries to strike down 150 years of settled law.

BS. Saying that "God always has been, and always will be" is based on nothing more than what a bunch of ignorant people two-thousand years ago came up with to explain their existence. It's a cop-out, plain and simple.

I don't think you get the point of what I said.

[Skjellyfetti]

Hey Joe-- about how old do you believe the earth is?

[JoltinJoe]

Hey Joe-- about how old do you believe the earth is?

You're stupid and unemployed.

[youngterrier]

Hey Joe-- about how old do you believe the earth is?

You're stupid and unemployed.

dam lawyers

[JoltinJoe]

Or it could be manifesting itself in some or all of the world's major religions. That's what many Muslims think about the other monotheistic religions.

Joe's hopeful, but wrong IMO. God, as envisioned by Joe, should manifest itself with a high degree of uniformity within all the worlds religions. God is god. God is what is. Someone praying in St. Peters should see/experience god the same way as someone kneeling in a mosque in Iraq, meditating in India, or praying/paying in a drive-in church in Mississippi.

The fact that god's incarnations are so numerous and so different, to the point where we kill each other, throughout the world, is further proof it's folly to even attempt to define what is beyond nature (god) and our current attempts/religions are constructs of man.

God does manifest himself "with a high degree of uniformity." Whether men perceive the manifestation is the issue.

Your second paragraph doesn't really follow. Human life has proven to be cheapest in society's where there is no concept of any God allowed.

[kalm]

Joe's hopeful, but wrong IMO. God, as envisioned by Joe, should manifest itself with a high degree of uniformity within all the worlds religions. God is god. God is what is. Someone praying in St. Peters should see/experience god the same way as someone kneeling in a mosque in Iraq, meditating in India, or praying/paying in a drive-in church in Mississippi.

The fact that god's incarnations are so numerous and so different, to the point where we kill each other, throughout the world, is further proof it's folly to even attempt to define what is beyond nature (god) and our current attempts/religions are constructs of man.

God does manifest himself "with a high degree of uniformity." Whether men perceive the manifestation is the issue.

Your second paragraph doesn't really follow. Human life has proven to be cheapest in society's where there is no concept of any God allowed.

I agree with the first point and IMHO that typically has nothing to do with religion.

On the second point, I know you're fishing, but 1 billion muslims disagree as does every christian that doesn't support birth control.

[UNHWildCats]

You are just like that oaf Barney Stinson: "Newer is always better."

Not true, but people fall for it anyway....

Come on, lighten up. That clip is hysterical.

It's just a joke, not to be taken too seriously.

nothing you say should be taken seriously... especially in the sports section

[Grizalltheway]

Hey Joe-- about how old do you believe the earth is?

You're stupid and unemployed.

That's alright, Joke, I'd be pretty embarrassed if I believed in a book that says the earth is less than 10,000 years old, too.

[JoltinJoe]

You're stupid and unemployed.

That's alright, Joke, I'd be pretty embarrassed if I believed in a book that says the earth is less than 10,000 years old, too.

What book says that?

You have a pretty narrow outlook/grasp on these things. Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

[kalm]

That's alright, Joke, I'd be pretty embarrassed if I believed in a book that says the earth is less than 10,000 years old, too.

Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

Just like with the majority of peacful muslims, he's simply waiting for the silent majority of sane christians to speak out against the crazies.

[Grizalltheway]

That's alright, Joke, I'd be pretty embarrassed if I believed in a book that says the earth is less than 10,000 years old, too.

What book says that?

You have a pretty narrow outlook/grasp on these things. Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

Genesis, if you interpret it literally, which many Christians do.

http://www.pollingreport.com/science.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

You have a pretty narrow outlook/grasp on these things. Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

When you decide to skirt the question.... it certainly makes it appear you are... and that you're ashamed of it.

Perhaps if you actually answered the question... we'd know where you stand. Maybe that's why I asked it?

[D1B]

You have a pretty narrow outlook/grasp on these things. Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

When you decide to skirt the question.... it certainly makes it appear you are... and that you're ashamed of it.

Perhaps if you actually answered the question... we'd know where you stand. Maybe that's why I asked it?

Joe's a skilled lawyer, obviously. Here, you really aint gonna go anywhere substantial. He'll duck and dodge attendant dogma and stay close to his safehouse (God is what is) until you just give up and move on.

Cleets really is right here when he applauds Joe for "finding exactly what he's looking for" in life and the struggle for meaning. I'll counter with Joe didn't find anything, his religion found him and was passed down by a dominant but misguided father and scared shitless mother. Religion is no different than potty training.

Whatever, Joe is a good man and I'm proud to have him as a friend and worthy sparring parter here.

[JoltinJoe]

You have a pretty narrow outlook/grasp on these things. Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

When you decide to skirt the question.... it certainly makes it appear you are... and that you're ashamed of it.

Perhaps if you actually answered the question... we'd know where you stand. Maybe that's why I asked it?

Or maybe the tactic is when YOU get cornered, suggest that anyone who is religious is a creationist.

I didn't answer your question because you intended to insult me simply by asking it.

[JoltinJoe]

Everyone who believes in God must be a creationist?

Just like with the majority of peacful muslims, he's simply waiting for the silent majority of sane christians to speak out against the crazies.

There are about 2 billion self-identified Christians in the world. Of this number, 1.3 billion are Catholic, and the vast majority of those Catholic (nearly a billion) are Roman Catholic. Another 300,000 are Eastern Orthodox. So probably over 80% of the Christians in the world do not read Genesis literally.

[D1B]

Just like with the majority of peacful muslims, he's simply waiting for the silent majority of sane christians to speak out against the crazies.

There are about 2 billion self-identified Christians in the world. Of this number, 1.3 billion are Catholic, and the vast majority of those Catholic (nearly a billion) are Roman Catholic. Another 300,000 are Eastern Orthodox. So probably over 80% of the Christians in the world do not read Genesis literally.

Joe, all nearly 1 billion or you did though all read it literally until VERY RECENT TIMES, reluctantly too, when y'all were backed into a corner and had no recourse other than to backpeddle, admit you were wrong (Darwin, Galileo, Copernicus...) and begin the rapid and continuing dimissal of major parts of your ONLY document of knowledge about your particular god - the bible.

As I've said before, in a couple hundred years, if your religion survives, the bible will be one page containing only:

Treat people good and we'll all benefit.

The secular humanization of your religion continues....

[JoltinJoe]

There are about 2 billion self-identified Christians in the world. Of this number, 1.3 billion are Catholic, and the vast majority of those Catholic (nearly a billion) are Roman Catholic. Another 300,000 are Eastern Orthodox. So probably over 80% of the Christians in the world do not read Genesis literally.

Joe, all nearly 1 billion or you did though all read it literally until VERY RECENT TIMES, reluctantly too, when y'all were backed into a corner and had no recourse other than to backpeddle, admit you were wrong (Darwin, Galileo, Copernicus...) and begin the rapid and continuing dimissal of major parts of your ONLY document of knowledge about your particular god - the bible.

As I've said before, in a couple hundred years, if your religion survives, the bible will be one page containing only:

Treat people good and we'll all benefit.

The secular humanization of your religion continues....

The allegorical understanding of Genesis in the Catholic Church goes back to the 5th century, specifically the writings of St. Augustine.

[Skjellyfetti]

St. Augustine believed in a earth less than 6,000 years old.

Let us, then, omit the conjectures of men who know not what they say, when they speak of the nature and origin of the human race. For some hold the same opinion regarding men that they hold regarding the world itself, that they have always been... They are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of many thousand years, though, reckoning by the sacred writings, we find that not 6000 years have yet passed.