Showdown In Wisconsin

[bluehenbillk]

Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year
[Milwaukee, Wisconsin] MacIver News Service – For the first time in history, the average annual compensation for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public School system will exceed $100,000.

That staggering figure was revealed last night at a meeting of the MPS School Board.
The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.

MacIver’s Bill Osmulski has more in this video report.
http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/03/ave ... -100kyear/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I certainly don't side with the teachers on this whole debate, but this stat is SOOOO bogus. You could make the same argument for any person's jobs where the person receives benefits. Put it this way, take your salary off your W-2 & multiply by at least 1.5 and that's the # they can say they pay you. Depending on where you live it can be higher than 1.5.

[kalm]

This.

I think it's absolutely adorable how the conk champions of the "free market" and money = free speech are shocked! shocked! I tell ya about teachers greasing the skids of state lawmakers to pass favorable compensation. Cause, you know, the bankers and the defense contractors and the energy producers and the realtors associations don't ever do that. No, when it comes to teacher compensation the all powerful Baldy and Bronco should set the scale and public workers free speech shouldn't matter.

I'm beginning to admire the teachers, cops, and firefighters as much as Lloyd Blankfein. They've worked the system to perfection.

Why wouldn't you admire them? Government employee unions contribute almost exclusively to Donks, and half of the Obama administration transferred to the White House from Goldman Sachs.

Nice try Baldy, but I've been pretty clear all along concerning GS and Obama's economic team. btw, GS has been a favorite of both parties. Bloated salaries and pensions aren't the issue here anyway. And I could give a shit which campaigns the teachers donate to.

[1842BullDog]

As if busting all the unions would make a difference?
The prima donnas (who average $100K in compensation per year) would still be in the streets whining about having to pay their own way instead of hitching a ride on the backs of the taxpayers.

1. State employees "averaging" 100k??? I don't know what state you live in, but it sure as hell isn't true in Wisconsin. Most public servants make less in the public sector than they would in the corporate world for similar jobs. The reasons they stay in the public sector? Generally much more stable, better benefits and the prospect of helping your state.

2. "hitching a ride"? These people work for a living. They repair your roads, teach your kids, clean your water, and PROTECT YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP. They aren't asking for a **** handout - they work for a living. They want their right to bargain collectively with their employer to be respected.

in fact - the head of AFSCME in Wisconsin (I believe, might be SEIU) has said if the Governor is willing to negotiate in good faith, the public employees believe a compromise, wherein they cover more of their pensions and benefits as a means of helping stem the budget crisis would be appropriate. (provided their right to bargain collectively is respected)...

doesn't seem unreasonable - waiting to hear what Walker has to say to that.

Labor laws have been implemented thoughout the decades that combat the problems that were the early target for unions. Low pay, unsafe conditions, the work week, all are regulated. I see no reason why unions need to exist. They aren't striking because of unsafe conditions or because 9 year olds are getting caught in the machines. They want more money and want to pay less WHILE the state is having to trim the fat and cut the budget. I agree that teachers, law enforcement personnel and emergency workers should be paid better but...

[houndawg]

1. State employees "averaging" 100k??? I don't know what state you live in, but it sure as hell isn't true in Wisconsin. Most public servants make less in the public sector than they would in the corporate world for similar jobs. The reasons they stay in the public sector? Generally much more stable, better benefits and the prospect of helping your state.

2. "hitching a ride"? These people work for a living. They repair your roads, teach your kids, clean your water, and PROTECT YOU WHILE YOU SLEEP. They aren't asking for a **** handout - they work for a living. They want their right to bargain collectively with their employer to be respected.

in fact - the head of AFSCME in Wisconsin (I believe, might be SEIU) has said if the Governor is willing to negotiate in good faith, the public employees believe a compromise, wherein they cover more of their pensions and benefits as a means of helping stem the budget crisis would be appropriate. (provided their right to bargain collectively is respected)...

doesn't seem unreasonable - waiting to hear what Walker has to say to that.

Labor laws have been implemented throughout the decades that combat the problems that were the early target for unions. Low pay, unsafe conditions, the work week, all are regulated. I see no reason why unions need to exist. They aren't striking because of unsafe conditions or because 9 year olds are getting caught in the machines. They want more money and want to pay less WHILE the state is having to trim the fat and cut the budget. I agree that teachers, law enforcement personnel and emergency workers should be paid better but...

Sounds good on paper, Bdog, but thirty-nine miners burned to death not too long ago in a coal mine in WV that continued to operate in spite of a horrible safety record. About a dozen more burned to death on the BP oil rig, another outfit known for it's safety record.

The work week increases, wages are down in real terms, and the middle class is getting beaten into non-existence. Where do you work at that you don't see this on a daily basis, Bdog?

[1842BullDog]

Labor laws have been implemented throughout the decades that combat the problems that were the early target for unions. Low pay, unsafe conditions, the work week, all are regulated. I see no reason why unions need to exist. They aren't striking because of unsafe conditions or because 9 year olds are getting caught in the machines. They want more money and want to pay less WHILE the state is having to trim the fat and cut the budget. I agree that teachers, law enforcement personnel and emergency workers should be paid better but...

Sounds good on paper, Bdog, but thirty-nine miners burned to death not too long ago in a coal mine in WV that continued to operate in spite of a horrible safety record. About a dozen more burned to death on the BP oil rig, another outfit known for it's safety record.

The work week increases, wages are down in real terms, and the middle class is getting beaten into non-existence. Where do you work at that you don't see this on a daily basis, Bdog?

I work with a Fortune 500 company that implements strict safety guidelines, implements the 4 day 10 hour workweek, promotes telecommuting and pays well. Yes, raises and bonuses aren't as nice as they were 4 years ago, but salary increases have occured. Insurance has risen slightly. Tell me, why would you work for someone that takes advantage of you? I guess some people don't get (or take advantage) of the opportunities of education and have to work in the mines, but that does not mean that a company in the 21st Century can take advantage.

[Col Hogan]

Labor laws have been implemented throughout the decades that combat the problems that were the early target for unions. Low pay, unsafe conditions, the work week, all are regulated. I see no reason why unions need to exist. They aren't striking because of unsafe conditions or because 9 year olds are getting caught in the machines. They want more money and want to pay less WHILE the state is having to trim the fat and cut the budget. I agree that teachers, law enforcement personnel and emergency workers should be paid better but...

Sounds good on paper, Bdog, but thirty-nine miners burned to death not too long ago in a coal mine in WV that continued to operate in spite of a horrible safety record. About a dozen more burned to death on the BP oil rig, another outfit known for it's safety record.

The work week increases, wages are down in real terms, and the middle class is getting beaten into non-existence. Where do you work at that you don't see this on a daily basis, Bdog?

Nice use of history at deflection, dawg...when was the last time a teacher was burned to death in the classroom...please tell us about all the parks department workers maimed using weed wackers...

This is about one thing and one thing only...keeping the nest feathered at the expense of the tax paying public...

The union says they'll accept the pay cuts if the collective bargaining language is removed...because the unions know they can turn around and reverse the pay cuts using that same language...nice scam if you can get it...

[houndawg]

Sounds good on paper, Bdog, but thirty-nine miners burned to death not too long ago in a coal mine in WV that continued to operate in spite of a horrible safety record. About a dozen more burned to death on the BP oil rig, another outfit known for it's safety record.

The work week increases, wages are down in real terms, and the middle class is getting beaten into non-existence. Where do you work at that you don't see this on a daily basis, Bdog?

I work with a Fortune 500 company that implements strict safety guidelines, implements the 4 day 10 hour workweek, promotes telecommuting and pays well. Yes, raises and bonuses aren't as nice as they were 4 years ago, but salary increases have occured. Insurance has risen slightly. Tell me, why would you work for someone that takes advantage of you? I guess some people don't get (or take advantage) of the opportunities of education and have to work in the mines, but that does not mean that a company in the 21st Century can take advantage.

There are some coal mines and oil companies that badly need your services, safety wise, as noted above in response to your comment about the unnecessary unions. Forget the 4/10 shifts, productivity goes in the crapper after 2pm on the day shift.

Bdog, it may be different in your area but there lots of college degrees working in the mines around here.

[houndawg]

Sounds good on paper, Bdog, but thirty-nine miners burned to death not too long ago in a coal mine in WV that continued to operate in spite of a horrible safety record. About a dozen more burned to death on the BP oil rig, another outfit known for it's safety record.

The work week increases, wages are down in real terms, and the middle class is getting beaten into non-existence. Where do you work at that you don't see this on a daily basis, Bdog?

Nice use of history at deflection, dawg...when was the last time a teacher was burned to death in the classroom...please tell us about all the parks department workers maimed using weed wackers...

This is about one thing and one thing only...keeping the nest feathered at the expense of the tax paying public...

The union says they'll accept the pay cuts if the collective bargaining language is removed...because the unions know they can turn around and reverse the pay cuts using that same language...nice scam if you can get it...

So jaded and cynical.....

Colonel, if you're trying to say this thing in Wisconsin is about wages and benefits then you're the grandaddy of all deflectors. This is about one thing and one thing only...busting the unions. The stuff I mentioned has happened in the past two years, colonel, history my azz.

Teacher burned to death in the classroom? How about gunned down at VaTech and other schools?

And you'll be the first to praise those brave union men and women who assure your safety while you sleep at night, right?

[Thumper 76]

Nice use of history at deflection, dawg...when was the last time a teacher was burned to death in the classroom...please tell us about all the parks department workers maimed using weed wackers...

This is about one thing and one thing only...keeping the nest feathered at the expense of the tax paying public...

The union says they'll accept the pay cuts if the collective bargaining language is removed...because the unions know they can turn around and reverse the pay cuts using that same language...nice scam if you can get it...

So jaded and cynical.....

Colonel, if you're trying to say this thing in Wisconsin is about wages and benefits then you're the grandaddy of all deflectors. This is about one thing and one thing only...busting the unions. The stuff I mentioned has happened in the past two years, colonel, history my azz.

Teacher burned to death in the classroom? How about gunned down at VaTech and other schools?

And you'll be the first to praise those brave union men and women who assure your safety while you sleep at night, right?

Man dawg, you are really reaching with the VaTech thing. Thats like saying people working in high rises should be fearing for thier lives because of 9/11 like that was something that occurs all the time. And the good Col is correct. Its not about busting unions. Its about the fact that the teachers and gov't workers in WI don't give two shits about the public or what they have to pay, as long as they keep getting a yearly raise dammit. The worst part will be all of the students that suffer if this passes because the teachers will give 0 effort at teaching them anymore. I've seen it happen in my hometown when they wouldn't pass a reforendum to pay for the teachers to get a raise.

[houndawg]

So jaded and cynical.....

Colonel, if you're trying to say this thing in Wisconsin is about wages and benefits then you're the grandaddy of all deflectors. This is about one thing and one thing only...busting the unions. The stuff I mentioned has happened in the past two years, colonel, history my azz.

Teacher burned to death in the classroom? How about gunned down at VaTech and other schools?

And you'll be the first to praise those brave union men and women who assure your safety while you sleep at night, right?

Man dawg, you are really reaching with the VaTech thing. Thats like saying people working in high rises should be fearing for thier lives because of 9/11 like that was something that occurs all the time. And the good Col is correct. Its not about busting unions. Its about the fact that the teachers and gov't workers in WI don't give two shits about the public or what they have to pay, as long as they keep getting a yearly raise dammit. The worst part will be all of the students that suffer if this passes because the teachers will give 0 effort at teaching them anymore. I've seen it happen in my hometown when they wouldn't pass a reforendum to pay for the teachers to get a raise.

Sorry. Thumpster, it's union-busting pure and simple, the union has already agreed to pay part of their pension and renegotiate their wages and raises. The governor wants an end to collective bargaining. What he really needs to do is to learn how to negotiate better.

Teachers get hurt at work all the time. Ted Strelezki beat his prof to death with a hammer over his thesis. PE teacher at my kids high school was shot in the leg at a basketball game. Ask the teachers in the inner-city schools in Chicago and NYC and LA how safe they feel at work.

[1842BullDog]

I work with a Fortune 500 company that implements strict safety guidelines, implements the 4 day 10 hour workweek, promotes telecommuting and pays well. Yes, raises and bonuses aren't as nice as they were 4 years ago, but salary increases have occured. Insurance has risen slightly. Tell me, why would you work for someone that takes advantage of you? I guess some people don't get (or take advantage) of the opportunities of education and have to work in the mines, but that does not mean that a company in the 21st Century can take advantage.

There are some coal mines and oil companies that badly need your services, safety wise, as noted above in response to your comment about the unnecessary unions. Forget the 4/10 shifts, productivity goes in the crapper after 2pm on the day shift.

Bdog, it may be different in your area but there lots of college degrees working in the mines around here.

We don't have any coal mines here so all I know is from what Sissy Spaek and Tommy Lee Jones have shown me. Other than that, my company works with a great number of energy producing corporations, but we aren't into the safety aspect of things (at least not in great detail.) I see unions as a destructive force.

[1842BullDog]

Nice use of history at deflection, dawg...when was the last time a teacher was burned to death in the classroom...please tell us about all the parks department workers maimed using weed wackers...

This is about one thing and one thing only...keeping the nest feathered at the expense of the tax paying public...

The union says they'll accept the pay cuts if the collective bargaining language is removed...because the unions know they can turn around and reverse the pay cuts using that same language...nice scam if you can get it...

So jaded and cynical.....

Colonel, if you're trying to say this thing in Wisconsin is about wages and benefits then you're the grandaddy of all deflectors. This is about one thing and one thing only...busting the unions. The stuff I mentioned has happened in the past two years, colonel, history my azz.

Teacher burned to death in the classroom? How about gunned down at VaTech and other schools?

And you'll be the first to praise those brave union men and women who assure your safety while you sleep at night, right?

Was the VATech shooter employed at the University and part of a union. I thought we were discussing unions and their members.

[1842BullDog]

Man dawg, you are really reaching with the VaTech thing. Thats like saying people working in high rises should be fearing for thier lives because of 9/11 like that was something that occurs all the time. And the good Col is correct. Its not about busting unions. Its about the fact that the teachers and gov't workers in WI don't give two shits about the public or what they have to pay, as long as they keep getting a yearly raise dammit. The worst part will be all of the students that suffer if this passes because the teachers will give 0 effort at teaching them anymore. I've seen it happen in my hometown when they wouldn't pass a reforendum to pay for the teachers to get a raise.

Sorry. Thumpster, it's union-busting pure and simple, the union has already agreed to pay part of their pension and renegotiate their wages and raises. The governor wants an end to collective bargaining. What he really needs to do is to learn how to negotiate better.

Teachers get hurt at work all the time. Ted Strelezki beat his prof to death with a hammer over his thesis. PE teacher at my kids high school was shot in the leg at a basketball game. Ask the teachers in the inner-city schools in Chicago and NYC and LA how safe they feel at work.

So, what your saying this that the gangsters union is alive and well?

[Baldy]

Man dawg, you are really reaching with the VaTech thing. Thats like saying people working in high rises should be fearing for thier lives because of 9/11 like that was something that occurs all the time. And the good Col is correct. Its not about busting unions. Its about the fact that the teachers and gov't workers in WI don't give two shits about the public or what they have to pay, as long as they keep getting a yearly raise dammit. The worst part will be all of the students that suffer if this passes because the teachers will give 0 effort at teaching them anymore. I've seen it happen in my hometown when they wouldn't pass a reforendum to pay for the teachers to get a raise.

Sorry. Thumpster, it's union-busting pure and simple, the union has already agreed to pay part of their pension and renegotiate their wages and raises. The governor wants an end to collective bargaining. What he really needs to do is to learn how to negotiate better.

He needs to learn how to negotiate better? No, the Donks need to learn how to win elections.

dawg, you're funny.

If the teacher unions hold out harm the kids by striking to get their free healthcare and free pensions, they are good negotiators, but if the governor holds their feet to the fire to end their free ride because its too expensive, he needs to learn to negotiate.

[Baldy]

Well, not quite the deflection kalm tried to make.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but if you want to have a vigorous discussion about that, be my guest and make another thread.

"start another thread' = typical cop out of the defeated.

Says the most defeated person on this forum.

[houndawg]

Sorry. Thumpster, it's union-busting pure and simple, the union has already agreed to pay part of their pension and renegotiate their wages and raises. The governor wants an end to collective bargaining. What he really needs to do is to learn how to negotiate better.

He needs to learn how to negotiate better? No, the Donks need to learn how to win elections.

dawg, you're funny.

If the teacher unions hold out harm the kids by striking to get their free healthcare and free pensions, they are good negotiators, but if the governor holds their feet to the fire to end their free ride because its too expensive, he needs to learn to negotiate.

Why thank you, balmy.

Every thing in the union contract was ratified by management.


If they don't like it they should have negotiated better.

[houndawg]

There are some coal mines and oil companies that badly need your services, safety wise, as noted above in response to your comment about the unnecessary unions. Forget the 4/10 shifts, productivity goes in the crapper after 2pm on the day shift.

Bdog, it may be different in your area but there lots of college degrees working in the mines around here.

We don't have any coal mines here so all I know is from what Sissy Spaek and Tommy Lee Jones have shown me. Other than that, my company works with a great number of energy producing corporations, but we aren't into the safety aspect of things (at least not in great detail.) I see unions as a destructive force.

You implement strict safety guidelines but you aren't into the safety aspect of things?

Probably from your office unions do look like a destructive force. If you worked in a coal mine you'd probably feel different. What was your outfits take on the recent disaster at the WV mine? Unions fault?

[Baldy]

He needs to learn how to negotiate better? No, the Donks need to learn how to win elections.

dawg, you're funny.

If the teacher unions hold out harm the kids by striking to get their free healthcare and free pensions, they are good negotiators, but if the governor holds their feet to the fire to end their free ride because its too expensive, he needs to learn to negotiate.

Why thank you, balmy.

Every thing in the union contract was ratified by management.


If they don't like it they should have negotiated better.

...and when the union caves or Walker fires the teachers, that too will be ratified by management.

[houndawg]

Why thank you, balmy.

Every thing in the union contract was ratified by management.


If they don't like it they should have negotiated better.

...and when the union caves or Walker fires the teachers, that too will be ratified by management.

....unless it's walker that caves, a la Gingrich.........

[TwinTownBisonFan]

total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

[YoUDeeMan]

total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

What point were you making?

[Thumper 76]

total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

When you look at it as a purely amount of education vs. amount of education, sure the private sector gets more money, because the people can get better paying jobs. Its not like you were comparing job to job. And the other thing is, if you go into teaching, you know your not going to make big money. Hell the biggest perks to that job though is you only work for half the year, get all of your holidays off, plus you get some vacation time. Must be rough.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

When you look at it as a purely amount of education vs. amount of education, sure the private sector gets more money, because the people can get better paying jobs. Its not like you were comparing job to job. And the other thing is, if you go into teaching, you know your not going to make big money. Hell the biggest perks to that job though is you only work for half the year, get all of your holidays off, plus you get some vacation time. Must be rough.

this is public employees - not just teachers. most public employees can make more in the private sector - they choose the public sector for a number of reasons... chief among them - stability and more reliable benefits... and many choose it because they believe in public service

btw the ignorance of what a teachers life is like is amazing...

most teachers don't "Get summer off"... most work until mid-june finishing grading and are back at it in mid august preparing for the new year. the ones who don't draw summer school generally spend a good chunk of the "summer" doing developmental work and continuing education and or working on their masters which is required by many districts.

this notion that they are hanging by the pool and dicking around is popular - but it's also almost complete bullshit (of course there are some who do precisely that... but they are exception not the rule)

[TwinTownBisonFan]

total compensation public vs. private employment by education level...

submitted without comment.

What point were you making?

just refuting the myth that public employees somehow magically make more than the private sector... not even when you factor in benefits is that the case.

[Skjellyfetti]

[youtube][/youtube]