Appalachian State to CUSA?

[dbackjon]

Quinn, you know as well as I do that if CUSA loses UCF, they'll probably go after FIU or FAU or Temple. Don't be afraid to feel the hate from the stong App fan base. You know damn well even if ECU, Marshall, UAB wanted App over the others, they are just 3 of 11 votes. You also know G'town & Prov have no desire to play BE football. If G'town was Nova like in it's FCSness then they'd be on the table as well. Taking Nova over UCF shows that they basically have to take the school already in conf. over the school that is already FBS. It would be nice if they took both but I see 10/17 over 11/18. They still may have an ultimate goal of 12/20.




Dback, I think Montana outdrew Nevada and Nevada was 12-1. It's just a small factor. Montana's stadium, is much prettier than Nevada's too. You gotta earn your stripes.

Other than access to florida, what does FIU/FAU bring? Do you think if either were in a better league, they could draw above 20K?

[JMUpurplehazed]

MidTenPhiKapp - I agree, not slamming the Sunbelt...all I'm saying is that if JMU moves it can't be to the Sunbelt. JMU has a lot of state rivalries in the FCS and many would take those rivalries over "at least it's FBS"... Gotta be an explainable move is all...

[Fresno St. Alum]

Quinn, you know as well as I do that if CUSA loses UCF, they'll probably go after FIU or FAU or Temple. Don't be afraid to feel the hate from the stong App fan base. You know damn well even if ECU, Marshall, UAB wanted App over the others, they are just 3 of 11 votes. You also know G'town & Prov have no desire to play BE football. If G'town was Nova like in it's FCSness then they'd be on the table as well. Taking Nova over UCF shows that they basically have to take the school already in conf. over the school that is already FBS. It would be nice if they took both but I see 10/17 over 11/18. They still may have an ultimate goal of 12/20.




Dback, I think Montana outdrew Nevada and Nevada was 12-1. It's just a small factor. Montana's stadium, is much prettier than Nevada's too. You gotta earn your stripes.

Other than access to florida, what does FIU/FAU bring? Do you think if either were in a better league, they could draw above 20K?

Access to Fla, TX, CA is huge for college sports. USF really deserve to be in the BE? No but they needed to replace Miami and USF has been decent in fb since moving.

There's the ladder. Boise had to earn it's stripes in the Big West then the WAC before getting to the MWC. I can't think of 1 FCS/I-AA school since all this movement started back with Penn St. to the Big 10 that didn't start in the Big West, MAC, SBC and now the new bottom conf. of the FBS WAC? Even almighty Marshall spent time in the MAC first.

The only exceptions were schools that were already in the conf. that basically had to be taken. UConn, UAB, USF.
I can't remember but were UAB and USF Indy at first which doesn't even put them at the UConn level?

About drawing more, I don't know. It wouldn't hurt. I'm sure FIU people would rather watch them vs ECU over ULM

[MTPiKapp]

MidTenPhiKapp - I agree, not slamming the Sunbelt...all I'm saying is that if JMU moves it can't be to the Sunbelt. JMU has a lot of state rivalries in the FCS and many would take those rivalries over "at least it's FBS"... Gotta be an explainable move is all...

A perfectly understandable perspective, that said, I think it would short sighted for any school in the basic established footprint with FBS aspirations to turn down a Sun Belt offer because "it's the Sun Belt". The unfortunate thing is, your administration couldn't sell the move to the fans as a "stepping stone" because you'd be burning bridges on your way in. Even though we all know the Sun Belt is a stepping stone and there's not a school in the conference currently that doesn't have aspirations of moving on to a better conference, it's just not something you can say publicly, at least not anyone from the administration.

The Sun Belt is far from anyone's dream conference, but if you're in FCS currently and have FBS aspirations, it can't be viewed as a step back. Unless someone like CUSA establishes a practice of dipping into FCS, which I don't think they will, anyone in FCS with FBS aspirations will pretty much have to swallow their pride and play in the Sun Belt, MAC or WAC.

The conference is not as bad as the public perception anymore, but public perception is tough to beat. That's one reason that selfishly I'm rooting for the WAC to survive, but barely. Without really pulling something miraculous, in another five years, the WAC will be the one constantly be written about as the worst conference in FBS. Nothing against any of those programs, we just need to shed that perception.

Personally I'm hopeful that we don't go the FCS route anymore in the Sun Belt, at least not for awhile. Nothing against any current FCS programs and there are some that I would be okay with, but there's not one out there that I believe makes us a dramatically better football or men's basketball(let alone a candidate that does both) conference from day one and honestly that's all we need to be looking for now, otherwise it's just another mouth to feed.

[catamount man]

First of all, C-USA has WAAAAY too many teams spread out as it is. I could see C-USA west adding Louisiana Tech and another team to have their own 8 team conference, new SWC of sorts.

C-USA east could change their name to something else and even if UCF bolts to the Big East, you'd have:

Memphis, Southern Miss, UAB, East Carolina, Marshall and then add Appalachian St, James Madison and even Georgia Southern. THAT'S A HELL OF A CONFERENCE!!!

fau and fiu offer NOTHING other than nice real estate.

[AppMan]

Terry Holland is a big advocate of ASU being admitted to CUSA. I honestly think he would be thrilled to see the Texas schools break away and do their own thing. UAB, Memphis, Tulane, and So Miss are all within close proximity of each other and not that far from Houston. They could all be a part of the break away. It appears UCF is a lock for the BE. If they leave the closest conference school to ECU & Marshall would be UAB and that is quite a haul. Next closest is Memphis which is basically Arkansas. MTSU and possibly Troy could be involved, which would open a door for Jax State in SunBelt, if a large shake up took place. The reality is, but will not happen due to ego's, is ECU and Marshall need to get involved with ASU, JMU, Delaware, ODU, Charlotte, and Ga State. Fairly close to each other with UD to GSU the exception.

Agree Appman... but $$$ along with Egos will be the deal breaker. If the east schools are going to break off it will have to be more than ECU/Marshall. ASU, ODU, JMU (in that order) would be my first choices if bringing in FCS schools but Memphis, USM, and UCF(assuming the BE doesn't pick them up) are necessary components from a tv $ and perception slant - UAB is a leach so they can be let go. Picking up at least 1 more Florida school would have to happen as well (FIU or FAU) for a new east centric conference to happen.

My ego comment was directed at the Texas schools which have seen their stock in a steady decline since the Southwest Conference days. Rumors say SMU owns the rights to the SWC name and may use it to form another conference. The question is where USM, Tulane, Memphis and UAB (if the rest would even want them) go. My guess, as in most issues, is they would follow the money. Toss in N Texas or La Tech and they have a nice compact (by Texas standards) league.


Adding UCF and Villanova the Big East goes to 11 football and 19 basketball schools, 1 short of their goal for 12 and 20 which would allow for two divisions. My first thought was Nova would jump at the football invite, but now I’m not so sure. Basketball is king at Nova and they will do nothing to upset that. Is Holland banking on the long rumored breakup of the BE? The exit of DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Notre Dame, Providence, Seaton Hall, St Johns, and Villanova (who I believe is the key) to form their own basketball league leaves the BE at 10 football schools and a much better opportunity for the Pirates. There has been some noise out of Marshall they are considering expanding their stadium to 50,000. Obviously that isn’t needed right now, but they may have their eye on a BE spot. That is a lot of dominos which must fall into place and it could take years to unfold. In the meantime Holland realizes CUSA in its current form is not sustainable. ECU needs a relatively close group of schools that will not destroy the budget. I would agree with you on the Florida schools if it didn't get away from his desire for a regional conference. Even if ECU was in a league with a few FCS move ups and Sun Belt teams the Pirates could still schedule big name regional football teams to appease their fans. ASU, Charlotte, ECU, Ga State, JMU, Marshall, MTSU, ODU and UAB make a lot of sense. With a geographic center of Charlotte (a prime location for conference tournaments) all the schools are a 7 hr drive or less. My fear is even though that particular alignment reaches into some of the largest TV markets in the Southeast, can it generate enough $'s for a sufficient TV contract? Holland is highly respected and has a ton of influence in college athletics. If anyone can secure a good TV deal for that group of schools he would be the man.

[PirateHeist]

I don't think Holland is banking on anything happening with the BE. He has been a big proponent for CUSA expanding to 16 sooner rather than later. That way, cross divisional games would be limited and regional rivalries maximized. Rivalries drive viewership --> UNC/Duke (bball), Mich/Notre Dame, Texas/Tex. A&M, etc. Most of these hugely watched games are against teams with rabid fan bases in close proximity to each other. I think that's what TH wants to build for ECU and CUSA. Obviously the BE would be a step up for ECU but I think the only way the Pirates end up in the BE is if it comes down to a football only invite. If Nova says no and the BE doesn't want to mess with BBall anymore - ECU would accept a football only candidate where I'm not sure a UCF etc. would.

[WacoKid]

2010 Football Attendance

C-USA average: 28,454

ECU: 49,665
UCF: 39,614
Houston: 31,728
Southern Miss: 29,400
UTEP: 29,350
Marshall: 27,046

APPALACHIAN STATE: 25,715

Rice: 25,571
Memphis: 23,918
SMU: 23,515
Tulane: 23,220
TUlsa: 20,374
UAB: 18,360


FIU: 19:828
North Texas: 17,718
FAU: 14,025

Keep in mind that our regular season average was 29,449 which would put us 4th. I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers. If we were playing in CUSA and had the seats we'd easily average around 35K or 40K. We already out draw the entire Sun Belt, MAC, most of the WAC, and some MWC to go along with these 9 in CUSA.

[WacoKid]

Only one Sunbelt team drew over 20K - ULM at 20,808

App's facilities are very strong - on par with most C-USA schools.

For the one sport of football, sure. Not exactly the case for other sports like hoops.

Have you ever been in our basketball arena, or our new baseball stadium, or new soccer stadium?

Basketball arena's in CUSA:

Memphis: 18K (Pro Arena)
UTEP: 12,222
UCF: 10,000
Marshall: 9,048
UAB: 8,508
Houston: 8,500
Tulsa: 8,355
App State: 8,350
Southern Miss: 8,095
ECU: 7,500
SMU: 7,457
Rice: 5,208
Tulane: 3,600

Only Memphis and UCF have arena's that are newer than ASU's. Check out a picture of the Holmes Center Below...

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?D ... =204989242

[ASUMountaineer]

For the one sport of football, sure. Not exactly the case for other sports like hoops.

Have you ever been in our basketball arena, or our new baseball stadium, or new soccer stadium?

Basketball arena's in CUSA:

Memphis: 18K (Pro Arena)
UTEP: 12,222
UCF: 10,000
Marshall: 9,048
UAB: 8,508
Houston: 8,500
Tulsa: 8,355
App State: 8,350
Southern Miss: 8,095
ECU: 7,500
SMU: 7,457
Rice: 5,208
Tulane: 3,600

Only Memphis and UCF have arena's that are newer than ASU's. Check out a picture of the Holmes Center Below...

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?D ... =204989242

[collegesportsinfo]

Quinn, you know as well as I do that if CUSA loses UCF, they'll probably go after FIU or FAU or Temple. Don't be afraid to feel the hate from the stong App fan base. You know damn well even if ECU, Marshall, UAB wanted App over the others, they are just 3 of 11 votes. You also know G'town & Prov have no desire to play BE football. If G'town was Nova like in it's FCSness then they'd be on the table as well. Taking Nova over UCF shows that they basically have to take the school already in conf. over the school that is already FBS. It would be nice if they took both but I see 10/17 over 11/18. They still may have an ultimate goal of 12/20.




Dback, I think Montana outdrew Nevada and Nevada was 12-1. It's just a small factor. Montana's stadium, is much prettier than Nevada's too. You gotta earn your stripes.

I actually don't. I just don't see FIU or FAU being top options. They were not part of the last round of discussions with CUSA. I do see Temple being a real option, but I think that Temple was explored when there seemed to be a chance that CUSA could lose 2-4 schools to conferences like the BE and MWC. Nobody is leaving CUSA for the MWC now. and for the time being, only UCF is a Big East option...then Houston. So Temple makes sense if you needed to fill two spots. Maybe true for 1 spot. But come one, Philly to El Paso for a non-BCS FBS conference? That's almost as crazy as the CAA going from Boston to Atlanta as a "mid-major".

[collegesportsinfo]

I don't think Holland is banking on anything happening with the BE. He has been a big proponent for CUSA expanding to 16 sooner rather than later. That way, cross divisional games would be limited and regional rivalries maximized. Rivalries drive viewership --> UNC/Duke (bball), Mich/Notre Dame, Texas/Tex. A&M, etc. Most of these hugely watched games are against teams with rabid fan bases in close proximity to each other. I think that's what TH wants to build for ECU and CUSA. Obviously the BE would be a step up for ECU but I think the only way the Pirates end up in the BE is if it comes down to a football only invite. If Nova says no and the BE doesn't want to mess with BBall anymore - ECU would accept a football only candidate where I'm not sure a UCF etc. would.

The money isn't there for it to make sense. But I'd love to see it!

West:
UTEP
SMU
Houston
Rice
Tulsa
Tulane
USM
UAB

East:
Memphis
UCF
ECU
Marshall
App St.
JMU
Temple
UMass

[collegesportsinfo]

2010 Football Attendance

C-USA average: 28,454

ECU: 49,665
UCF: 39,614
Houston: 31,728
Southern Miss: 29,400
UTEP: 29,350
Marshall: 27,046

APPALACHIAN STATE: 25,715

Rice: 25,571
Memphis: 23,918
SMU: 23,515
Tulane: 23,220
TUlsa: 20,374
UAB: 18,360


FIU: 19:828
North Texas: 17,718
FAU: 14,025

Keep in mind that our regular season average was 29,449 which would put us 4th. I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers. If we were playing in CUSA and had the seats we'd easily average around 35K or 40K. We already out draw the entire Sun Belt, MAC, most of the WAC, and some MWC to go along with these 9 in CUSA.

Which is an interesting topic in itself when talking about even being in FCS vs FBS. People are quick to bash the bowls, but let's be real, if App St. were playing a BCS conference team in a bowl game and had 50k tickets to sell, they'd sell them all. If they were even playing Troy in a New Orleand UrinalCake.com Bowl, they'd probably still sell those 50k tickets...having a month's notice for fans to plan. But mighty App St (and Delaware) have playoff games at home, and there's more crickets than fans attending.

[Skjellyfetti]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

[mcveyrl]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

Yea, his credibility just jumped out the window with that one.

[ASUMountaineer]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

Yea, his credibility just jumped out the window with that one.

I'm hoping he accidentally typed an extra "0." I believe ASU could easily sell 5,000 tickets for the two bowl game scenarios he described.

[ASUMountaineer]

Quinn, you know as well as I do that if CUSA loses UCF, they'll probably go after FIU or FAU or Temple. Don't be afraid to feel the hate from the stong App fan base. You know damn well even if ECU, Marshall, UAB wanted App over the others, they are just 3 of 11 votes. You also know G'town & Prov have no desire to play BE football. If G'town was Nova like in it's FCSness then they'd be on the table as well. Taking Nova over UCF shows that they basically have to take the school already in conf. over the school that is already FBS. It would be nice if they took both but I see 10/17 over 11/18. They still may have an ultimate goal of 12/20.




Dback, I think Montana outdrew Nevada and Nevada was 12-1. It's just a small factor. Montana's stadium, is much prettier than Nevada's too. You gotta earn your stripes.

I actually don't. I just don't see FIU or FAU being top options. They were not part of the last round of discussions with CUSA. I do see Temple being a real option, but I think that Temple was explored when there seemed to be a chance that CUSA could lose 2-4 schools to conferences like the BE and MWC. Nobody is leaving CUSA for the MWC now. and for the time being, only UCF is a Big East option...then Houston. So Temple makes sense if you needed to fill two spots. Maybe true for 1 spot. But come one, Philly to El Paso for a non-BCS FBS conference? That's almost as crazy as the CAA going from Boston to Atlanta as a "mid-major".

Any new rumors? Been able to confirm anything about Charlie Cobb possibility visiting with CUSA, as Josh Buchanan reported.

[mcveyrl]

Yea, his credibility just jumped out the window with that one.

I'm hoping he accidentally typed an extra "0." I believe ASU could easily sell 5,000 tickets for the two bowl game scenarios he described.

I thought about that, but he did it twice. I agree that ASU would sell 5,000 tickets for those (or any other east coast) bowl games.

[collegesportsinfo]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

I agree, I was exaggerating. But in factoring in the important component of novelty, with App St. being new to FBS, I think don't think it's a stretch to think that they'd sell more tickets than they have for home playoff games. One of the biggest problems in FCS is that problem: some great, historic programs like App St. and UD just have no fans at their playoff games compared to some ho-hum regular season conference game against a pushover school. The fans just need more time to schedule, something even an awful nearby bowl would give them.

[ASUMountaineer]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

I agree, I was exaggerating. But in factoring in the important component of novelty, with App St. being new to FBS, I think don't think it's a stretch to think that they'd sell more tickets than they have for home playoff games. One of the biggest problems in FCS is that problem: some great, historic programs like App St. and UD just have no fans at their playoff games compared to some ho-hum regular season conference game against a pushover school. The fans just need more time to schedule, something even an awful nearby bowl would give them.

I agree with what you said, and I also think many fans just care more about the regular season.

[kemajic]

I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers.

Why would they not? A more relevant question is why playoff games kill your numbers. Maybe the regular season numbers are inflated by cheap hillside tickets, not allowed by the NCAA playoffs ticket policy.

[clenz]

I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers.

Why would they not? A more relevant question is why playoff games kill your numbers. Maybe the regular season numbers are inflated by cheap hillside tickets, not allowed by the NCAA playoffs ticket policy.

Not always.

UNI averaged 14K for the regular season, but was given a home playoff game on Thanksgiving weekend. That game dropped our average attendance about 1500-200 people because we only drew 5-6K.

[appvette]

I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers.

Why would they not? A more relevant question is why playoff games kill your numbers. Maybe the regular season numbers are inflated by cheap hillside tickets, not allowed by the NCAA playoffs ticket policy.

The point of these attendance figures is to compare App's attendance to other FBS schools. Since App wouldn't have playoff games if they moved to FBS, then the playoff attendance is NOT relevant.

The hillside tickets are the same price as regular tickets so that's definately not the reason for reduced attendance.

[dbackjon]

You're crazy if you think anyone would sell 50k tickets to the New Orleans Bowl.

Troy sold 3,500 for their trip in 2010 for comparison...

I agree, I was exaggerating. But in factoring in the important component of novelty, with App St. being new to FBS, I think don't think it's a stretch to think that they'd sell more tickets than they have for home playoff games. One of the biggest problems in FCS is that problem: some great, historic programs like App St. and UD just have no fans at their playoff games compared to some ho-hum regular season conference game against a pushover school. The fans just need more time to schedule, something even an awful nearby bowl would give them.

MTSU couldn't even sell 2K tickets for their first ever bowl game...

[ASUMountaineer]

I hate how the NCAA includes playoff games which kill our numbers.

Why would they not? A more relevant question is why playoff games kill your numbers. Maybe the regular season numbers are inflated by cheap hillside tickets, not allowed by the NCAA playoffs ticket policy.

As appvette mentioned, the price is the same for every ticket whether you're on the hill or have an actual seat. I always thought it should be less if you buy a SRO ticket, but oh well. Supply and demand...

As to why playoff games kill our numbers, that's a never-ending debate. Personally, I think it's a combination of factors including lack of planning time, the weather, time of year (holidays), and people care more about the regular season. There may be others, but that's the biggest reasons I think. This is also not an ASU-specific issue. Attendance normally drops for playoff games at most schools.


edit: because I can't spell today apparently