http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/a ... 002e0.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;HELENA — With each bill, newly elected tea party lawmakers are offering Montanans a vision of the future.
Their state would be a place where officials can ignore U.S. laws, force FBI agents to get a sheriff's OK before arresting anyone, ban abortions, limit sex education in schools and create armed citizen militias.
It's the tea party world. But not everyone is buying their vision.
Some residents, Democratic Gov. Brian Schweitzer and even some Republican lawmakers say the bills are making Montana into a laughingstock. And, they say, the push to nullify federal laws could be dangerous.
"We are the United States of America," said Schweitzer. "This talk of nullifying is pretty toxic talk. That led to the Civil War."
A tea party lawmaker said raising the specter of a civil war is plain old malarkey.
"Nullification is not about splitting this union apart," freshman Rep. Derek Skees said. "Nullification is just one more way for us to tell the federal government: 'That is not right."
Some of their bills are moving through the legislature. Others appear doomed: an armed citizen militia, FBI agents under the thumb of the sheriff and a declaration that global warming is good for business.
Whatever their merits, the ideas are increasingly popping up in legislatures across the nation, as a wave of tea party-backed conservatives push their anti-spending, anti-federal government agenda.
Arizona, Missouri and Tennessee are discussing the creation of a joint compact, like a treaty, opposing the 2010 health care law. Idaho is considering a plan to nullify it, as is Montana.
In Montana, the GOP gained a supermajority in the Montana House in last year's election, giving Republicans control of both legislative chambers. Half of the 68 House Republicans are freshman, many sympathetic to the new political movement.
Over the first 45 days of the new legislature, they have steadily pushed their proposals. Some have moved out of committee.
Examples include a bill making it illegal to enforce some federal gun laws in the state, and another aimed at establishing state authority over federal regulation of greenhouse gasses.
Schweitzer is watching, describing many of the proposals from the new majority as simply "kooky," such as a plan to make it legal to hunt big game with a spear.
Hardly a day goes by, however, that the merits of "nullification" aren't discussed.
Proponents draw on Thomas Jefferson's late 18th-century argument that aimed to give states the ultimate say in constitutional matters and let them ban certain federal laws in their borders.
Supporters are not dissuaded by the legal scholars who say the notion runs afoul of the clause in the U.S. Constitution that declares federal law "the supreme law of the land."
Backers of nullification say they can get the federal government to back down off a law if enough states band together against it.
They point to the REAL ID act — a Bush-era plan to assert federal control over state identifications as a way to combat terrorism. The law has been put in limbo after 25 states adopted legislation opposing it.
The nullification debate reached a fever pitch this week when tea party conservatives mustered enough votes in the House to pass a 17-point declaration of sovereignty.
"States retain the right of protecting all freedoms of individual persons from federal incursion," the measure in part reads. Now, it heads to the Senate, where ardent states' rights conservatives have less influence and its fate is less certain.
House Minority Leader Jon Sesso stood in the House Chamber, exasperated. He peppered Republicans with questions: Who decides if the federal government is acting unconstitutionally?
"Who among us is making these determinations that our freedoms are being lost?" he asked, an incredulous expression on his face as he eyed the Republican side of the chamber.
Republican Rep. Cleve Loney rose. A man of few words, the tea party organizer replied: "I don't intend us to secede from the union. But I will tell you it is up to us. We are the people to decide."
The political movement that caught Democrats by surprise at the ballot box also caught them flat-footed at the Legislature.
At first they rolled their eyes, but now they are quickly ramping up their opposition, even recycling a slogan once leveled by conservatives against liberals protesting the Vietnam War.
"I say to you: 'This is America: Love it or leave it,'" shouted Rep. William McChesney, during the sovereignty declaration debate.
Some Republicans have turned against the more aggressive tea party ideas.
"You are scaring the you-know-what out of them with this kind of talk," veteran Republican lawmaker Walt McNutt said. "This needs to stop and stop now. Stop scaring our constituents and stop letting us look like a bunch of buffoons."
Democrats are resigned to losing many of the votes and in some cases have urged Republicans to trot the ideas out for floor debates for the public to see. And surprised residents are taking notice, especially of the nullification push.
"It would be hard for anyone to top what is going on here in terms of the insanity of it all," said Lawrence Pettit, a retired university president and author living in Helena. "One could be amused by it, except it is too dangerous."
Schweitzer, meanwhile, is getting ready for the bills that may arrive on his desk. On Wednesday, he got a new cattle brand from the state livestock agency that reads "VETO." A branding iron is being made.
"Ain't nobody in the history of Montana has had so many danged ornery critters that needed branding," he said.
Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
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hank scorpio
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Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
These are the people Ol' Hank Scorpio has been dealing with for the last two months.
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hank scorpio
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Also, I like the Governor's zeal, but seriously? Welcome to Montucky, Yeeha!
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kalm
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
This is what you get when you elect anti government people to...govern.
Pst, T-party. You had one good election and are dominating one side of the aisle. Might not want to over-reach.
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hank scorpio
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I have already had one person in my office to get a recall petition going for one of them. It really wont make any difference as the person is in the House and the session ends relatively soon. I guess it at least creates bad publicity for the 2012 election.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I contend we need to treat nullification like we did the last time... ask South Carolina how that ended up...
take their damn highway funds a build a giant statue of General Sherman on capitol grounds in Helena with Article VI Clause 2 of the Constitution inscribed on it.
take their damn highway funds a build a giant statue of General Sherman on capitol grounds in Helena with Article VI Clause 2 of the Constitution inscribed on it.
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Vidav
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Makes me embarrassed to be from Montana.
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hank scorpio
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
HELENA — Inspired by a recent editorial cartoon, Gov. Brian Schweitzer has registered an ornamental brand with the state Livestock Department that says “VETO.”

A cartoon by staff artist Denny Lester in Sunday’s Helena Independent Record shows the Democratic governor holding a branding iron that says “VETO” as he prepares to brand some calves depicting controversial Republican bills. Schweitzer’s border collie, Jag, stands ready to herd the cattle.

Schweitzer has said many times that he is prepared to veto a number of bills coming from the Republican-controlled House and Senate unless they are related to creating jobs.
He told reporters this week about registering
the brand.
“Actually, if you call the Department of Livestock you’ll see that Brian Schweitzer has registered a brand,” the governor told the Gazette State Bureau. “I have a few brands. There’s a new brand that is VETO that is registered to one Brian Schweitzer.”
Schweitzer paid $100 to register the brand, said Steve Merritt, Department of Livestock public information officer. As an ornamental brand, it can’t be used to brand livestock, the
official said.
Schweitzer said he hasn’t had the branding iron made yet.
“It costs money to make those danged things,” he said with a laugh. “I’m going to have to raise some big cattle to get four letters branded on them. You can’t brand a calf with four letters.”
Schweitzer said he’ll talk to a blacksmith and figures the branding iron will cost about $140, or $35 a letter.
He said it’s not “a lazy veto (brand), just a straight across veto, left to right.”

A cartoon by staff artist Denny Lester in Sunday’s Helena Independent Record shows the Democratic governor holding a branding iron that says “VETO” as he prepares to brand some calves depicting controversial Republican bills. Schweitzer’s border collie, Jag, stands ready to herd the cattle.

Schweitzer has said many times that he is prepared to veto a number of bills coming from the Republican-controlled House and Senate unless they are related to creating jobs.
He told reporters this week about registering
the brand.
“Actually, if you call the Department of Livestock you’ll see that Brian Schweitzer has registered a brand,” the governor told the Gazette State Bureau. “I have a few brands. There’s a new brand that is VETO that is registered to one Brian Schweitzer.”
Schweitzer paid $100 to register the brand, said Steve Merritt, Department of Livestock public information officer. As an ornamental brand, it can’t be used to brand livestock, the
official said.
Schweitzer said he hasn’t had the branding iron made yet.
“It costs money to make those danged things,” he said with a laugh. “I’m going to have to raise some big cattle to get four letters branded on them. You can’t brand a calf with four letters.”
Schweitzer said he’ll talk to a blacksmith and figures the branding iron will cost about $140, or $35 a letter.
He said it’s not “a lazy veto (brand), just a straight across veto, left to right.”
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TwinTownBisonFan
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Love Schweitzer... my kind of people.hank scorpio wrote:HELENA — Inspired by a recent editorial cartoon, Gov. Brian Schweitzer has registered an ornamental brand with the state Livestock Department that says “VETO.”
A cartoon by staff artist Denny Lester in Sunday’s Helena Independent Record shows the Democratic governor holding a branding iron that says “VETO” as he prepares to brand some calves depicting controversial Republican bills. Schweitzer’s border collie, Jag, stands ready to herd the cattle.
Schweitzer has said many times that he is prepared to veto a number of bills coming from the Republican-controlled House and Senate unless they are related to creating jobs.
He told reporters this week about registering
the brand.
“Actually, if you call the Department of Livestock you’ll see that Brian Schweitzer has registered a brand,” the governor told the Gazette State Bureau. “I have a few brands. There’s a new brand that is VETO that is registered to one Brian Schweitzer.”
Schweitzer paid $100 to register the brand, said Steve Merritt, Department of Livestock public information officer. As an ornamental brand, it can’t be used to brand livestock, the
official said.
Schweitzer said he hasn’t had the branding iron made yet.
“It costs money to make those danged things,” he said with a laugh. “I’m going to have to raise some big cattle to get four letters branded on them. You can’t brand a calf with four letters.”
Schweitzer said he’ll talk to a blacksmith and figures the branding iron will cost about $140, or $35 a letter.
He said it’s not “a lazy veto (brand), just a straight across veto, left to right.”
North Dakota State University Bison 2011 and 2012 National Champions


- uofmman1122
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
This.Vidav wrote:Makes me embarrassed to be from Montana.
OH MY GOD, THIS!
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Hey, at least we're on the national stage!uofmman1122 wrote:This.Vidav wrote:Makes me embarrassed to be from Montana.
OH MY GOD, THIS!
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
FWIW, Yahoo! is reporting that the first of two ObamaSplatter bills has failed by a close vote in one house and the other one is expected to do similarly.

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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Really, most of the rest of the nation hasn't taken Montana seriously for decades. It's not like anything coming out of there today is considered abnormal Montana to the rest of the nation.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I dunno about that, GF. It wasn't Montana that elected a wacko ex-Navy SEAL turned wrestler as governor....GannonFan wrote:Really, most of the rest of the nation hasn't taken Montana seriously for decades. It's not like anything coming out of there today is considered abnormal Montana to the rest of the nation.

SuperHornet's Athletics Hall of Fame includes Jacksonville State kicker Ashley Martin, the first girl to score in a Division I football game. She kicked 3 PATs in a 2001 game for J-State.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Good god....Grizalltheway wrote:Hey, at least we're on the national stage!![]()
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What a stupid, stupid jackass.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Eh - that whole upper Midwest does some goofy things. I think it's just too cold for too long for those guys. Need more sun up there. I imagine that Saskatchewan is viewed in the same way by Canada.SuperHornet wrote:I dunno about that, GF. It wasn't Montana that elected a wacko ex-Navy SEAL turned wrestler as governor....GannonFan wrote:Really, most of the rest of the nation hasn't taken Montana seriously for decades. It's not like anything coming out of there today is considered abnormal Montana to the rest of the nation.
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TwinTownBisonFan
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
2003 recall of Gray Davis and subsequent campaign...SuperHornet wrote:I dunno about that, GF. It wasn't Montana that elected a wacko ex-Navy SEAL turned wrestler as governor....GannonFan wrote:Really, most of the rest of the nation hasn't taken Montana seriously for decades. It's not like anything coming out of there today is considered abnormal Montana to the rest of the nation.
a ballot that included
Gary Coleman
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Porn star Mary Carey
Gallagher
Tachikaze (a sumo wrestler)
Larry Flynt
Peter Uebberoth
Arianna Huffington
and a cantina scene from star wars of no-names and other assorted wannabes...
game. set. match. California wins the crazy ass cup.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I grant you some of those were crazy. But what the crap was wrong with Peter Ueberroth? He had more executive experience (albeit not in government) than Obama ever dreamed of having.

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TwinTownBisonFan
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I like Ueberroth - and think Cali would have been well served to put him in the govs office (since they were too short-sighted... Davis was a good governor, and the victim of one of the all-time great political rat fuckings)SuperHornet wrote:I grant you some of those were crazy. But what the crap was wrong with Peter Ueberroth? He had more executive experience (albeit not in government) than Obama ever dreamed of having.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Schwarzenegger had NOTHING to do with Davis' recall. He was merely an opportunist who pulled the wool over our eyes after a righteously indignant electorate had had enough of Davis' failures. Too bad we weren't smart enough to do the same to Ah-nold when he blew it, too.

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TwinTownBisonFan
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
dude... davis was rat-fucked... and as an operative, all i can do is applaud the thorough job done on it... it was masterful. a coordinated strike really.SuperHornet wrote:Schwarzenegger had NOTHING to do with Davis' recall. He was merely an opportunist who pulled the wool over our eyes after a righteously indignant electorate had had enough of Davis' failures. Too bad we weren't smart enough to do the same to Ah-nold when he blew it, too.
Davis was a rising star among the Dems... until Enron systematically manipulated energy market creating the artificial scarcity that led to the energy crisis. follow that up by the sustained media campaign waged by GOP operatives to tar and feather him orchestrated by Sal Russo. Throw in Darrell Issa's ambition to buy the Governors office for himself (that backfired) and spending tens of millions to finance the whole thing... then add in a nightly mouthpiece broadcasting to the nation and hyping arnold (Jay Leno, the fuckface) - it was... almost like watching a symphony the way they took him down.
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Leno? How is that credible? Leno once had a guy announce he was running for president wearing a feather boa and then never be heard from again on the topic.

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TwinTownBisonFan
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
The overall value of the time Leno gave to either a)bashing Davis or b) supporting Arnold or giving him appearances was worth tens of millions of dollars.SuperHornet wrote:Leno? How is that credible? Leno once had a guy announce he was running for president wearing a feather boa and then never be heard from again on the topic.
15 minutes a night in one form or another... on network, nationwide television...
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hank scorpio
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
Ha! I listened to the hearing on his bill. I find it hilarious that Wagner and Skees put so much weight on the fact that George Washington checked out a book written by a Swiss Diplomat who died in 1767.Grizalltheway wrote:Hey, at least we're on the national stage!uofmman1122 wrote:This.
OH MY GOD, THIS!
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Re: Tea party vision for Montana raising concerns
I like the ideas being proposed.
Things like getting local law enforcement involved would have stopped things like Waco and Ruby Ridge, but the government wanted to send messages to the US instead of dealing with it peacefully. The statement in the article is very misleading BTW.
There is no reason not to involve local law enforcement, the Feds are doing it right now with the Medical Marijuana situation. They have MHP doing extensive research into local MJ businesses, and what they are planning to do to them is going to blow up if they try it.
If its that embarrassing you can always move to a proud and self sufficient state like NY, MI or CA.
Things like getting local law enforcement involved would have stopped things like Waco and Ruby Ridge, but the government wanted to send messages to the US instead of dealing with it peacefully. The statement in the article is very misleading BTW.
There is no reason not to involve local law enforcement, the Feds are doing it right now with the Medical Marijuana situation. They have MHP doing extensive research into local MJ businesses, and what they are planning to do to them is going to blow up if they try it.
If its that embarrassing you can always move to a proud and self sufficient state like NY, MI or CA.

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