Government Shutdown 2011

[Col Hogan]

This is why you don't grasp concepts, and post 99% hyperbole, Jon. You either just don't read, or you don't comprehend what you do read. Active pilots have to maintain their currency. That means they fly almost every day while on flight status. In addition to actually being able to fight the aircraft, precision navigation is a very important cog in the machine.

Being able to arrive over an exact location within a window of just a few seconds is a very important skill in combat aviation, Jon.

And luckily, in real combat, when you calculate time on target, you don't have to adjust for Christina Aguilera throwing off your time hack by skipping a verse or two.

[Ivytalk]

I see that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, is debating a two-week extension of the deadline in exchange for a rather paltry round of budget cuts, including some "earmarks."

I propose that, if a shutdown comes, the voters of cs.com press their reps in Washington for an "earmark" allowing our friend 93henfan to keep getting paid!

[Chizzang]

I see that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, is debating a two-week extension of the deadline in exchange for a rather paltry round of budget cuts, including some "earmarks."

I propose that, if a shutdown comes, the voters of cs.com press their reps in Washington for an "earmark" allowing our friend 93henfan to keep getting paid!

It's only going to take about 6 months for the "new guys" to figure out that they can get themselves set-up for life in their new jobs... and then we'll be right where we've been (or where we were) 100 billion become 50 billion becomes 20 billion becomes added deficit spending and pet earmarks


watch this... here they come

[houndawg]

I see that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, is debating a two-week extension of the deadline in exchange for a rather paltry round of budget cuts, including some "earmarks."

I propose that, if a shutdown comes, the voters of cs.com press their reps in Washington for an "earmark" allowing our friend 93henfan to keep getting paid!

It's only going to take about 6 months for the "new guys" to figure out that they can get themselves set-up for life in their new jobs... and then we'll be right where we've been (or where we were) 100 billion become 50 billion becomes 20 billion becomes added deficit spending and pet earmarks


watch this... here they come

We must cut $100,000,000, but none of it from my district.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

i was off by 50 grand...
http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Sup ... 09249.html

So, you accept that the money was just burned...tossed out...because the military just loves wasting money...right???

That money came out of the units training budget...it was going to be spent one way or another on training...

So, what happened (and happens each and every flyover) is a training mission is planned...any number of training requirements go into the mission...and maybe in the middle, or towards the end of the mission, they "flyover" a sporting event...

And a training mission of that length could cost $450K...but what you are TOTALLY ignoring, is all the training conducted before and after the 5 - 10 seconds they fly over a target (sporting event)...

So, your anti-military media claims DOD wasted $450K on a flyover....you take it hook, line and sinker...

first of all - why is it that demanding accountability and a thorough review of DoD spending is somehow "anti-military" instead of "fiscally responsible" like it is in the rest of the damn government?

second of all - that's great that they tie it to training missions... I'm skeptical as to the "need" for it, but whatever... (personally, if you're going to do it, I'd rather see an A-10 Warthog dive low and practice a strafing run... those things are AWESOME to watch)

thirdly - this still doesn't account for the money sinks that are the NASCAR teams and the blue angels...

[TwinTownBisonFan]

And luckily, in real combat, when you calculate time on target, you don't have to adjust for Christina Aguilera throwing off your time hack by skipping a verse or two.

that's what we call "an externality"

[Col Hogan]

So, you accept that the money was just burned...tossed out...because the military just loves wasting money...right???

That money came out of the units training budget...it was going to be spent one way or another on training...

So, what happened (and happens each and every flyover) is a training mission is planned...any number of training requirements go into the mission...and maybe in the middle, or towards the end of the mission, they "flyover" a sporting event...

And a training mission of that length could cost $450K...but what you are TOTALLY ignoring, is all the training conducted before and after the 5 - 10 seconds they fly over a target (sporting event)...

So, your anti-military media claims DOD wasted $450K on a flyover....you take it hook, line and sinker...

first of all - why is it that demanding accountability and a thorough review of DoD spending is somehow "anti-military" instead of "fiscally responsible" like it is in the rest of the damn government?

second of all - that's great that they tie it to training missions... I'm skeptical as to the "need" for it, but whatever... (personally, if you're going to do it, I'd rather see an A-10 Warthog dive low and practice a strafing run... those things are AWESOME to watch)

thirdly - this still doesn't account for the money sinks that are the NASCAR teams and the blue angels...

Quite a knee-jerk you go there, TTBF...better go see a doctor for that...

Where did I say anything about being opposed to demanding accountability from ANYONE in government...civilian or military??? WHERE?????

What I demand is honesty, and the article is not honest...it leave the reader with the mistaken impression that the military spend $450K JUST FOR A FLYOVER....and that is light-years from the truth...

Now, I know its stories like this that helps you donks beat up on the military and its supporters...

Spend some time and find out how things work, so you an recognize pure KAKA DE TORO...

Finally, NASCAR, The Blue Angels, The Thunderbirds...all fall under advertising and public relations...

How would you propose the military do that???

[TwinTownBisonFan]

first of all - why is it that demanding accountability and a thorough review of DoD spending is somehow "anti-military" instead of "fiscally responsible" like it is in the rest of the damn government?

second of all - that's great that they tie it to training missions... I'm skeptical as to the "need" for it, but whatever... (personally, if you're going to do it, I'd rather see an A-10 Warthog dive low and practice a strafing run... those things are AWESOME to watch)

thirdly - this still doesn't account for the money sinks that are the NASCAR teams and the blue angels...

Quite a knee-jerk you go there, TTBF...better go see a doctor for that...

Where did I say anything about being opposed to demanding accountability from ANYONE in government...civilian or military??? WHERE?????

What I demand is honesty, and the article is not honest...it leave the reader with the mistaken impression that the military spend $450K JUST FOR A FLYOVER....and that is light-years from the truth...

Now, I know its stories like this that helps you donks beat up on the military and its supporters...

Spend some time and find out how things work, so you an recognize pure KAKA DE TORO...

Finally, NASCAR, The Blue Angels, The Thunderbirds...all fall under advertising and public relations...

How would you propose the military do that???

they do plenty - notice, i'm not saying they shouldn't advertise on TV, or in magazines - or have recruiters - or offer incentives for enlistment... those are all valuable tools, and highly effective.

it's a cost/benefit thing. you'll get more mileage and recruiting value from those things than a car sponsorship and stunt planes.

[YoUDeeMan]

wow...

we haven't cut defense spending in this country since 1994... hell, we barely hold the Pentagon accountable at ALL.

we could cut defense spending very responsibly without jeopardizing force readiness, mission success or future r&d for weapons, tactics, technology or training.

imagine that - nobody is listening to a bunch of regular citizens... hardly surprising...

Citizens matter less than freshmen on a football team... you sit on the bench and learn how the game is played. some citizens are like that loud freshman who runs his mouth about how good he is and how much he knows about budgets... then they scrimmage him with the varsity and he gets it handed to him.

[OL FU]

I see that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, is debating a two-week extension of the deadline in exchange for a rather paltry round of budget cuts, including some "earmarks."

I propose that, if a shutdown comes, the voters of cs.com press their reps in Washington for an "earmark" allowing our friend 93henfan to keep getting paid!

It's only going to take about 6 months for the "new guys" to figure out that they can get themselves set-up for life in their new jobs... and then we'll be right where we've been (or where we were) 100 billion become 50 billion becomes 20 billion becomes added deficit spending and pet earmarks


watch this... here they come

You may be right and probably are, but I don't find it funny.

[houndawg]

first of all - why is it that demanding accountability and a thorough review of DoD spending is somehow "anti-military" instead of "fiscally responsible" like it is in the rest of the damn government?

second of all - that's great that they tie it to training missions... I'm skeptical as to the "need" for it, but whatever... (personally, if you're going to do it, I'd rather see an A-10 Warthog dive low and practice a strafing run... those things are AWESOME to watch)

thirdly - this still doesn't account for the money sinks that are the NASCAR teams and the blue angels...

Quite a knee-jerk you go there, TTBF...better go see a doctor for that...

Where did I say anything about being opposed to demanding accountability from ANYONE in government...civilian or military??? WHERE?????

What I demand is honesty, and the article is not honest...it leave the reader with the mistaken impression that the military spend $450K JUST FOR A FLYOVER....and that is light-years from the truth...

Now, I know its stories like this that helps you donks beat up on the military and its supporters...

Spend some time and find out how things work, so you an recognize pure KAKA DE TORO...

Finally, NASCAR, The Blue Angels, The Thunderbirds...all fall under advertising and public relations...

How would you propose the military do that???

By cutting from the advertising budget the tens of millions per year it costs to keep the blue angels, the thunderbirds, and nascar team going.

[houndawg]

This is why you don't grasp concepts, and post 99% hyperbole, Jon. You either just don't read, or you don't comprehend what you do read. Active pilots have to maintain their currency. That means they fly almost every day while on flight status. In addition to actually being able to fight the aircraft, precision navigation is a very important cog in the machine.

Being able to arrive over an exact location within a window of just a few seconds is a very important skill in combat aviation, Jon.

And luckily, in real combat, when you calculate time on target, you don't have to adjust for Christina Aguilera throwing off your time hack by skipping a verse or two.

You don't have to calculate anything, the computers do it for you.

[Col Hogan]

Quite a knee-jerk you go there, TTBF...better go see a doctor for that...

Where did I say anything about being opposed to demanding accountability from ANYONE in government...civilian or military??? WHERE?????

What I demand is honesty, and the article is not honest...it leave the reader with the mistaken impression that the military spend $450K JUST FOR A FLYOVER....and that is light-years from the truth...

Now, I know its stories like this that helps you donks beat up on the military and its supporters...

Spend some time and find out how things work, so you an recognize pure KAKA DE TORO...

Finally, NASCAR, The Blue Angels, The Thunderbirds...all fall under advertising and public relations...

How would you propose the military do that???

By cutting from the advertising budget the tens of millions per year it costs to keep the blue angels, the thunderbirds, and nascar team going.

Cutting NASCAR is pure savings...I don't know how much they spend on that, but its not tens of millions of dollars...

And since the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are still combat-coded aircraft, if you shut down both teams, the planes and people just go back into front-line squadrons and continue to fly...so you'll save a few dollars from reduced flying hours, but all in all, you lose tons of recruiting potential and gain no where near the "tens of millions" in savings...

Dawgs overall Grade on this weak attempt - C-... He tried, but didn't do his homework before he engaged his mouth...

[HI54UNI]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

[kalm]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

Spoken like a true city manager.

Gov. still needs to operate, and the employees are willing to, so perhaps it's the management (executive and congress) that doesn't get paid during this one.

[Cap'n Cat]

Boehner and Conks will have egg on their faces like Newty Gangrene and disappear for 14 years after Clinton bitch-slapped him into oblivion over the last one.

[93henfan]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

It's certainly not the case for the vast majority, but a certain percentage of us federal employees will still be working anyway. Even though I'm coded non-essential, I'd be working after a shutdown to write stop-work orders on all of my active contracts. That would take several days. If we didn't get retroactive pay I would file for overtime for the hours worked. I'm not sure if it would be granted, but I'd probably be able to get later time off as credit. My agency is pretty good to its folks that way.

[TheDancinMonarch]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

Many are paid for not working at work now. What difference will it be for them to be paid for not working at home?

[HI54UNI]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

It's certainly not the case for the vast majority, but a certain percentage of us federal employees will still be working anyway. Even though I'm coded non-essential, I'd be working after a shutdown to write stop-work orders on all of my active contracts. That would take several days. If we didn't get retroactive pay I would file for overtime for the hours worked. I'm not sure if it would be granted, but I'd probably be able to get later time off as credit. My agency is pretty good to its folks that way.

If you are still reporting to work I have no problem with you getting paid retroactively. But if a person doesn't show up for a week and do anything should they get paid? Will they get paid plus try to turn in OT because they have to work extra hours the next week to get caught up?

Again this is one of those things that isn't the workers' fault. I'm sure the politicians won't go without pay for the shutdown days.

[dbackjon]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

Many are paid for not working at work now. What difference will it be for them to be paid for not working at home?

Why do you hate the Government? ARe you a terraist?

[houndawg]

By cutting from the advertising budget the tens of millions per year it costs to keep the blue angels, the thunderbirds, and nascar team going.

Cutting NASCAR is pure savings...I don't know how much they spend on that, but its not tens of millions of dollars...

And since the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are still combat-coded aircraft, if you shut down both teams, the planes and people just go back into front-line squadrons and continue to fly...so you'll save a few dollars from reduced flying hours, but all in all, you lose tons of recruiting potential and gain no where near the "tens of millions" in savings...

Dawgs overall Grade on this weak attempt - C-... He tried, but didn't do his homework before he engaged his mouth...

How much do you think it costs to operate the angels and t-birds and nascar, colonel?

Put their shamming asses to work in those front-line units, maybe one of them can drop a bomb on bin Laden.

The so-called recruiting potential, if any, is wasted money. No recruiting is necessary to find people to fly jets.


Feeble counter, colonel, and you an officer.....

[93henfan]

Will they get paid plus try to turn in OT because they have to work extra hours the next week to get caught up?

No. That would clearly be illegal.

[93henfan]

If the government shuts down for a week should govt employees get paid if they don't work? Iowa forced their workers into unpaid furloughs last year to help balance the budget. I know it isn't the employees' fault but should they get paid for not working?

Many are paid for not working at work now. What difference will it be for them to be paid for not working at home?

As evidenced by this website, non-federal workers get paid pretty well to not work at work too.

[Baldy]

Cutting NASCAR is pure savings...I don't know how much they spend on that, but its not tens of millions of dollars...

And since the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds are still combat-coded aircraft, if you shut down both teams, the planes and people just go back into front-line squadrons and continue to fly...so you'll save a few dollars from reduced flying hours, but all in all, you lose tons of recruiting potential and gain no where near the "tens of millions" in savings...

Dawgs overall Grade on this weak attempt - C-... He tried, but didn't do his homework before he engaged his mouth...

How much do you think it costs to operate the angels and t-birds and nascar, colonel?

Put their shamming asses to work in those front-line units, maybe one of them can drop a bomb on bin Laden.

The so-called recruiting potential, if any, is wasted money. No recruiting is necessary to find people to fly jets.


Feeble counter, colonel, and you an officer.....

Considering Chrysler is basically owned, operated, and in receivership to the government, AND it paid a reported $9M on a single super bowl ad, the military is getting an enormous deal through NASCAR sponsorships. That $9M will run an entire season as being the primary sponsor for a single race team. A much better bang for the buck than a single super bowl ad.

[TheDancinMonarch]

Many are paid for not working at work now. What difference will it be for them to be paid for not working at home?

As evidenced by this website, non-federal workers get paid pretty well to not work at work too.

The question isn't whether they are working or not. The question is are they doing any work that needs to be done.