Bye Bye Villanova?

[DJH]

And to think, that this is basically the top of the mountain for Uconn. They will probably never achieve greater success than this. The best that they can possibly do is lose a million dollars by playing in a meaningless BCS bowl game.

Meaningless BCS game? Kinda relative, right?

A lot more people chose to tune into that game than the 2005 UNI - App game that was the pinnacle of UNI's success. I-AA championship game probably more meaningless to a lot of people.

Yes, but A) that UNI game was played for a national title, and B) it didn't cost UNI millions of dollars to go lose that game.

I could care less if people care about the FCS title. What does winning a BCS game mean exactly? Nothing. And it cost uconn millions of dollars just to go get stomped.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Meaningless BCS game? Kinda relative, right?

A lot more people chose to tune into that game than the 2005 UNI - App game that was the pinnacle of UNI's success. I-AA championship game probably more meaningless to a lot of people.

Yes, but A) that UNI game was played for a national title, and B) it didn't cost UNI millions of dollars to go lose that game.

I could care less if people care about the FCS title. What does winning a BCS game mean exactly? Nothing. And it cost uconn millions of dollars just to go get stomped.

on the other hand... 10.8 MILLION people watched the Fiesta Bowl - that's an assload of exposure.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... -for-espn/

just a hunch... the audience for the FCS title game wasn't NEARLY that good - especially when you consider that 5.9 million were watching the Cotton Bowl at the same time... (can't find exact figures for the FCS game anywhere online - so if someone else can... thanks)

[dbackjon]

Yes, but A) that UNI game was played for a national title, and B) it didn't cost UNI millions of dollars to go lose that game.

I could care less if people care about the FCS title. What does winning a BCS game mean exactly? Nothing. And it cost uconn millions of dollars just to go get stomped.

on the other hand... 10.8 MILLION people watched the Fiesta Bowl - that's an assload of exposure.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... -for-espn/

just a hunch... the audience for the FCS title game wasn't NEARLY that good - especially when you consider that 5.9 million were watching the Cotton Bowl at the same time... (can't find exact figures for the FCS game anywhere online - so if someone else can... thanks)

Enough positive exposure to make up for the losses, embarassment on the field?

[Skjellyfetti]

Enough positive exposure to make up for the losses, embarassment on the field?

They could have declined the invite if they didn't think it was worth it.

[DJH]

Yes, but A) that UNI game was played for a national title, and B) it didn't cost UNI millions of dollars to go lose that game.

I could care less if people care about the FCS title. What does winning a BCS game mean exactly? Nothing. And it cost uconn millions of dollars just to go get stomped.

on the other hand... 10.8 MILLION people watched the Fiesta Bowl - that's an assload of exposure.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... -for-espn/

just a hunch... the audience for the FCS title game wasn't NEARLY that good - especially when you consider that 5.9 million were watching the Cotton Bowl at the same time... (can't find exact figures for the FCS game anywhere online - so if someone else can... thanks)

First of all, they weren't watching Uconn. They were watching Oklahoma.

Are all those people watching that game going to chip in a dollar each to make up for the big hole in Uconn's wallet?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

on the other hand... 10.8 MILLION people watched the Fiesta Bowl - that's an assload of exposure.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/0 ... -for-espn/

just a hunch... the audience for the FCS title game wasn't NEARLY that good - especially when you consider that 5.9 million were watching the Cotton Bowl at the same time... (can't find exact figures for the FCS game anywhere online - so if someone else can... thanks)

Enough positive exposure to make up for the losses, embarassment on the field?

4 hours on ESPN + the ESPN hype machine in the days leading up, across all platforms... had to be worth 10 million dollars.

when you consider NDSU estimated the hype from making the tournament in 2009 at $650k...

[Skjellyfetti]

Again, UConn could have declined the invite if they didn't think it was worth it. They felt it was worth it.

"[UConn athletic director] Jeff Hathaway and the university were up front and honest in December when we talked about finances and nothing is different now than we thought it would be or that we said it would be," Enright said. "We said the bowls are not going to make money, but we feel the residual effects of the bowl game are well worth it."

This was UConn's first trip to a BCS bowl, so the program gained more exposure than at any point in its history.

"We've always believed that going to a bowl game like this helps all areas of the university," Enright said. "We always think we're a front door for the university, helping in many areas, especially admissions and development."

"I also think there is an economic residual affect that results in more sales for local merchants, the local economy — something that a spreadsheet can't capture."

When asked about schools losing money in bowl games, Hathaway told The Courant in December that the publicity generated for the university and athletic department eventually pays off in fundraising efforts.

"You can bet that it's significant for the UConn Foundation as the primary fundraising arm of the university," Hathaway said before the bowl game. "They're using this as a sense of pride and a rallying point, just as the UConn Alumni Association is. So, this is a significant piece of history."

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 5541.story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




Ohio State lost money going to the 2009 Fiesta Bowl, Virginia Tech lost money by going to the 2009 Orange Bowl. I wonder why these teams accept invitations if it's clearly not worth it.

[89Hen]

Shame to see them leave. There must be something beneficial in the move? If its practical for them to make the move it must be practical for other schools too.

Maybe our recent record would improve over them. Hens used to beat them all the time when they were a division/classification up.

[bluehenbillk]

Shame to see them leave. There must be something beneficial in the move? If its practical for them to make the move it must be practical for other schools too.

Maybe our recent record would improve over them. Hens used to beat them all the time when they were a division/classification up.

89- If VU makes the move up I don't see the VU-UD game continuing into the future.

[kalm]

Hope the Nova folks read this before making their decision:

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootbal ... owl-030211

Not only did the University of Connecticut lose the New Year's Day Fiesta Bowl, but the cost of appearing in the game burned a $1.8 million hole in the pocket of the school's athletic department, the Daily Campus reported Wednesday.

According to financial records from the Fiesta Bowl, UConn incurred $4.3 million in expenses, while receiving a payout from the Big East of $2.5 million for making it to the prestigious Bowl Championship Series (BCS) game against Oklahoma.

The largest burden for the school was ticket costs, as the athletic department was forced to absorb a nearly $3 million charge for unused tickets. The Fiesta Bowl allotted UConn 17,500 tickets, but the athletic department only sold 2,771 of them and had to pay for the rest.

In addition, the cost of traveling to Glendale, Ariz.., for the game totaled $685,195, while UConn also spent a total of $460,941 on meals and lodging for the team, administrators, cheerleaders and the band...

UConn sold 2,771 tickets for a BCS bowl game!

I knew they were having trouble, but

[SloStang]

An FBS move for NDSU is out of the question because of our stadium. We have no upside in our revenue stream because we are in the same position as Montana. We are near sold out every week. When we moved to the FCS we had about 10,000 extra tickets every week to sell. Thats a nice brass ring. Thats not there for us if we moved to the FBS now. We need to add 10,000 seats to consider it.

Is a 10,000 seat expansion of the Fargo Dome possible or would they need to build a new stadium?

[SloStang]

--Sorry, double post,--

[Trapped in CA]

Is a 10,000 seat expansion of the Fargo Dome possible or would they need to build a new stadium?

Anything is possible with enough $$, but I think it would cost less to just build a new place. It's not like acquiring 10 acres would be tough to do in Fargo - its not the SF Bay area.

[BDKJMU]

Which is exactly why I've never once questioned a Nova move to the Big East. That is an easy move for anybody to see a school making.

Makes a ton of sense - only question (probably answered already elsewhere) will they play at the Linc? upgrade their current home? rent Franklin Field?

-Expansion of their current 12k on campus stadium not practical- its hemmed in by buildings & Rt 30 on 2 sides, and very wealthy Radnor Township would never allow it (similar problem UR faced with their very wealthy surrounding neighbors when putting their stadium on campus).

-60k Franklin Filed is a relic with no parking. Would likely take 10s of millions in upgrades to make it BCS level, along with UPenn willing to share it.

-LINC ISN'T an option. The Eagles hate allowing Temple to play there, but that was part of the deal for the state of PA to cough up a bunch of millions in funding for the LINC. Not a snowballs chance in hell the Eagles will also let Nova play there.

-18.5k soccer stadium in the ghetto in Chester 17 miles from Nova's campus is the option most talked about. I believe the stadium can be expanded to 23k. Regardless, either way not big enough to host a OOC BCS game. The only OOC NOVA would be able to get to come to PPL would be I-AA and non BCS (MAC) teams. Is Nova's wealthy fan base going to want to go to Chester to tailgate and watch football?

-Citizens Bank Park would only be an option for Nov after baseball is over.

I'm just wondering how Nova makes $ on this. On the one hand they will have the
-Big East TV and share of Bowl revenue,
-increased home ticket revenue (despite a very weak fan base and what will be by far the smallest BCS stadium), along with incresed revenue from parking, concessions, merchandising, corporate sponsors, etc
-As far as 2 away OOC games, they already have one away $ game a yr (last 2 years and next 2 is slated to be Temple at the LINC). @ Temple @ the LINC could be one of their 2 away OOC games every year, and NOVA could trying to have the remaining away OOC a big $ game at a BCS every year.

On the other hand:
-44 more schollies (22 men, 22 women),
-2? more assistant FB coaches (and probably a few more womens' too if another womens' sport is added),
-exponentially higher salaries for all the FB coaches (look at the avg BCS salaries).
-millions in facilities upgrades
-possibly not being able to host big OOC games
etc, etc,

The 2 other teams that went straight from I-AA to BCS enrollments), both to the Big East:
-Uconn:public university, state flagship school with an enrollement of about 28k, had a $91 million (in 93') stadium built, paid for mostly by the state of CT,
-USF: public university, enrollment about 47k, had an NFL stadium to use, is in college football crazed FL.

Nova: medium sized private school, enrollment about 9,500, (what looks like) will be the smallest BCS stadium, in a city where as far as football goes if its not Eagles green they don't care.

The last time Nova went I-A in the late 70s they ended up losing $ hand over fist and dropped football for 4 years (81'-85'). Sure if I was Nova I'd make the move, I'm just skeptical as to how successful it will be. The ? is is do they still lose $, and if so, do they lose even more than they are losing now?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

An FBS move for NDSU is out of the question because of our stadium. We have no upside in our revenue stream because we are in the same position as Montana. We are near sold out every week. When we moved to the FCS we had about 10,000 extra tickets every week to sell. Thats a nice brass ring. Thats not there for us if we moved to the FBS now. We need to add 10,000 seats to consider it.

Is a 10,000 seat expansion of the Fargo Dome possible or would they need to build a new stadium?

1. a new stadium

2. moving up would also require some other things, namely:

- about 100,000 more people to move to Fargo and give a shit.
- better youth and high school football programs to produce enough FBS level recruits to stock the one FBS program in the region as it is (Minnesota), much less a second
- a state university with about 5,000 more undergrads (pushing 20k instead of the 15k we're at)
- at least 10-20 members of our alumni base to either a)hit the lottery or b)find gold and/or oil somewhere so we could have the donations required to support such a program

in other words, not. gonna. happen. ever.

[MALVES21]

UMASS is next!!!

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Makes a ton of sense - only question (probably answered already elsewhere) will they play at the Linc? upgrade their current home? rent Franklin Field?

-Expansion of their current 11k on campus stadium not practical- its hemmed in by buildings & Rt 30 on 2 sides, and very wealthy Radnor Township would never allow it (similar problem UR faced with their very wealthy surrounding neighbors when putting their stadium on campus).

-60k Franklin Filed is a relic with no parking. Would likely take 10s of millions in upgrades to make it BCS level, along with UPenn willing to share it.

-LINC ISN'T an option. The Eagles hate allowing Temple to play there, but that was part of the deal for the state of PA to cough up a bunch of millions in funding for the LINC. Not a snowballs chance in hell the Eagles will also let Nova play there.

-18.5k soccer stadium in the ghetto in Chester 17 miles from Nova's campus is the option most talked about. I believe the stadium can be expanded to 23k. Regardless, either way not big enough to host a OOC BCS game. The only OOC NOVA would be able to get to come to PPL would be I-AA and non BCS (MAC) teams. Is Nova's wealthy fan base going to want to go to Chester to tailgate and watch football?

-Citizens Bank Park would only be an option for Nov after baseball is over.

I'm just wondering how Nova makes $ on this. On the one hand they will have the
-Big East TV and share of Bowl revenue,
-increased home ticket revenue (despite a very weak fan base and what will be by far the smallest BCS stadium), along with parking, concessions, apparel.
-As far as 2 away OOC games, they already have one big OOC away BCS $ game a yr, so not sure how much increase they'll get from that.

On the other hand:
-44 more schollies (22 men, 22 women),
-2? more FB coaches (and probably a few more womens' too if another womens' sport is added),
-higher salaries for all the FB coaches
-millions in facilities upgrades
-possibly not being able to host big OOC games
etc, etc,

The 2 other teams that went straight from I-AA to BCS enrollments), both to the Big East:
-Uconn:public university, state flagship school with an enrollement of about 28k, had a $91 million (in 93') stadium built, paid for mostly by the state of CT,
-USF: public university, enrollment about 47k, had an NFL stadium to use, is in college football crazed FL.

Nova: medium sized private school, enrollment about 9,500, (what looks like) will be the smallest BCS stadium, in a city where as far as football goes if its not Eagles green they don't care.

The last time Nova went I-A in the late 70s they ended up losing $ hand over fist and dropped football for 4 years (81'-85'). Sure if I was Nova I'd make the move, I'm just skeptical as to how successful it will be.

depends too on just how much money a potential comprehensive TV package with ESPN (or someone else i suppose) would bring in... plus their own network... my guess is that the amount of $ for a "full member" would be significantly greater.

as for Franklin Field -parking schmarking, philly has great transit. the real problem would be the distance from campus and alumni resistance to playing at UPenn's field.

as for the Linc - the advantage is to Nova there... the Iggles can bitch and moan, but the Linc is a public facility... renting the football stadium and collecting parking revenues for another full season of games will be coveted by the stadium authority...

not saying they'll draw flies at first - but, given their presence in the BE, and the recruiting hotbed that is the Philly Burbs... they could make a go of it.

[BDKJMU]

-Expansion of their current 11k on campus stadium not practical- its hemmed in by buildings & Rt 30 on 2 sides, and very wealthy Radnor Township would never allow it (similar problem UR faced with their very wealthy surrounding neighbors when putting their stadium on campus).

-60k Franklin Filed is a relic with no parking. Would likely take 10s of millions in upgrades to make it BCS level, along with UPenn willing to share it.

-LINC ISN'T an option. The Eagles hate allowing Temple to play there, but that was part of the deal for the state of PA to cough up a bunch of millions in funding for the LINC. Not a snowballs chance in hell the Eagles will also let Nova play there.

-18.5k soccer stadium in the ghetto in Chester 17 miles from Nova's campus is the option most talked about. I believe the stadium can be expanded to 23k. Regardless, either way not big enough to host a OOC BCS game. The only OOC NOVA would be able to get to come to PPL would be I-AA and non BCS (MAC) teams. Is Nova's wealthy fan base going to want to go to Chester to tailgate and watch football?

-Citizens Bank Park would only be an option for Nov after baseball is over.

I'm just wondering how Nova makes $ on this. On the one hand they will have the
-Big East TV and share of Bowl revenue,
-increased home ticket revenue (despite a very weak fan base and what will be by far the smallest BCS stadium), along with parking, concessions, apparel.
-As far as 2 away OOC games, they already have one big OOC away BCS $ game a yr, so not sure how much increase they'll get from that.

On the other hand:
-44 more schollies (22 men, 22 women),
-2? more FB coaches (and probably a few more womens' too if another womens' sport is added),
-higher salaries for all the FB coaches
-millions in facilities upgrades
-possibly not being able to host big OOC games
etc, etc,

The 2 other teams that went straight from I-AA to BCS enrollments), both to the Big East:
-Uconn:public university, state flagship school with an enrollement of about 28k, had a $91 million (in 93') stadium built, paid for mostly by the state of CT,
-USF: public university, enrollment about 47k, had an NFL stadium to use, is in college football crazed FL.

Nova: medium sized private school, enrollment about 9,500, (what looks like) will be the smallest BCS stadium, in a city where as far as football goes if its not Eagles green they don't care.

The last time Nova went I-A in the late 70s they ended up losing $ hand over fist and dropped football for 4 years (81'-85'). Sure if I was Nova I'd make the move, I'm just skeptical as to how successful it will be.

depends too on just how much money a potential comprehensive TV package with ESPN (or someone else i suppose) would bring in... plus their own network... my guess is that the amount of $ for a "full member" would be significantly greater.

as for Franklin Field -parking schmarking, philly has great transit. the real problem would be the distance from campus and alumni resistance to playing at UPenn's field.

as for the Linc - the advantage is to Nova there... the Iggles can bitch and moan, but the Linc is a public facility... renting the football stadium and collecting parking revenues for another full season of games will be coveted by the stadium authority...

not saying they'll draw flies at first - but, given their presence in the BE, and the recruiting hotbed that is the Philly Burbs... they could make a go of it.

Dude, you're wrong. I live about 10 miles from the LINC. The Philadelphia Eagles own the LINC, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Eagles are going to let Nova play at the Linc, which would be a 3rd team playing on their grass field.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

depends too on just how much money a potential comprehensive TV package with ESPN (or someone else i suppose) would bring in... plus their own network... my guess is that the amount of $ for a "full member" would be significantly greater.

as for Franklin Field -parking schmarking, philly has great transit. the real problem would be the distance from campus and alumni resistance to playing at UPenn's field.

as for the Linc - the advantage is to Nova there... the Iggles can bitch and moan, but the Linc is a public facility... renting the football stadium and collecting parking revenues for another full season of games will be coveted by the stadium authority...

not saying they'll draw flies at first - but, given their presence in the BE, and the recruiting hotbed that is the Philly Burbs... they could make a go of it.

Dude, you're wrong. I live about 10 miles from the LINC. The Philadelphia Eagles own the LINC, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Eagles are going to let Nova play at the Linc, which would be a 3rd team playing on their grass field.

*runs to internet* *looks it up*

*feels shame*

wow - i figured for SURE that given the amount of public financing and the location in the south philly complex that it was all part of a public stadium district... I am - shocked really.

that being the case, Nova's balls are in a salad shooter... no way they'll get fans to travel all the way to Chester for a game at a soccer stadium...

[DJH]

Is a 10,000 seat expansion of the Fargo Dome possible or would they need to build a new stadium?

1. a new stadium

2. moving up would also require some other things, namely:

- about 100,000 more people to move to Fargo and give a shit.
- better youth and high school football programs to produce enough FBS level recruits to stock the one FBS program in the region as it is (Minnesota), much less a second
- a state university with about 5,000 more undergrads (pushing 20k instead of the 15k we're at)
- at least 10-20 members of our alumni base to either a)hit the lottery or b)find gold and/or oil somewhere so we could have the donations required to support such a program

in other words, not. gonna. happen. ever.

Wow, a realistic point of view from an NDSU fan. I appreciate that.

[Grizalltheway]

Dude, you're wrong. I live about 10 miles from the LINC. The Philadelphia Eagles own the LINC, and there's not a snowball's chance in hell the Eagles are going to let Nova play at the Linc, which would be a 3rd team playing on their grass field.

*runs to internet* *looks it up*

*feels shame*

wow - i figured for SURE that given the amount of public financing and the location in the south philly complex that it was all part of a public stadium district... I am - shocked really.

that being the case, Nova's balls are in a salad shooter... no way they'll get fans to travel all the way to Chester for a game at a soccer stadium...

No kidding, they can't even get them to show up for games on campus...

[BDKJMU]

Another thing to elaborate on besides a I-A Nova football having to compete for attention with:
-Eagles, already mentioned
-Phillies in Sept and Oct. Have been to the playoffs the last 4 straight seasons, including 2 World Series, and are a favorite to make the Series this yr.
-Flyers: season starts about when baseball ends. Were in the last Stanley Cup and currently in 1st place in the eastern Conference & 2nd best record in the NHL.
-Sixers: season also starts about when baseball ends. (Sixers are currently mediocre)

-Union: has 4 home MLS soccer games scheduled at PPL Park on Saturdays Sept-Oct (and I assume will be the case every season). So that would be a logistical issue with playing football and soccer games on Saturdays in Sept and Oct on the same GRASS field.

-Temple crappier league but NFL stadium, Temple is about 4x as big as Nova, and have had some success the last couple of years.

Philly is a northeastern city, major pro sports town where pro sports rule. Heck, not even Penn State who sells out every game at 107k is way down on the attention scale here compared to the pro sports teams, but would still get more attention than Nova would. Nova football will be WAY, WAY, WAY down on the attention scale from the major pro sports, and will be vying for attention with Temple and the Union.

[DJH]

I think that this will be a major failure for Nova if they decide to do this. I don't see any way that this can be successful.

[GannonFan]

Other thing to keep in mind, when nova b-ball isn't a legit title contender, even their attendance suffers. This year, as nova has "only" been a top 20 team and not a likley national title contender, they have been unable to crack 20k at the South Philly Arena (currently the Wells Fargo Center but that could change at any moment) even once this year. And that's with a top 20 team playing the likes of Louisville, Maryland, St. John's, Gtown, West Virginia, and Syracuse, also all top 20 teams (save for Maryland, who isn't terrible and is local). Attendance has actually averaged 16k, with the Louisville-led Pittino team only drawing 13k.

Begs to wonder how a mediocre at best football team with no national title aspirations will fare attendance-wise in a market that is infinitely more unfriendly to college football than it is to college hoops (Philly is a big time college hoops town) and with a fanbase that already peels away in large numbers even when their team is still in the top 20 (you could've walked up to the arena last weekend and bought lower level tix to the St. John's game). Oh, and one where the games are in a soccer stadium in Chester to boot. I'm guessing that tying in season tickets for the b-ball team with a requirement to purchase some amount of football tix will yield a paid attendance at football that will be close to 10k for every game - doesn't mean there will be that many actually there, though.

When it comes down to it, nova will probably lose less money taking handouts from the Big East and playing most OOC games on the road at paydays than they will remaining in FCS, and that will be why they move.

[BDKJMU]

Other thing to keep in mind, when nova b-ball isn't a legit title contender, even their attendance suffers. This year, as nova has "only" been a top 20 team and not a likley national title contender, they have been unable to crack 20k at the South Philly Arena (currently the Wells Fargo Center but that could change at any moment) even once this year. And that's with a top 20 team playing the likes of Louisville, Maryland, St. John's, Gtown, West Virginia, and Syracuse, also all top 20 teams (save for Maryland, who isn't terrible and is local). Attendance has actually averaged 16k, with the Louisville-led Pittino team only drawing 13k.

Begs to wonder how a mediocre at best football team with no national title aspirations will fare attendance-wise in a market that is infinitely more unfriendly to college football than it is to college hoops (Philly is a big time college hoops town) and with a fanbase that already peels away in large numbers even when their team is still in the top 20 (you could've walked up to the arena last weekend and bought lower level tix to the St. John's game). Oh, and one where the games are in a soccer stadium in Chester to boot. I'm guessing that tying in season tickets for the b-ball team with a requirement to purchase some amount of football tix will yield a paid attendance at football that will be close to 10k for every game - doesn't mean there will be that many actually there, though.

When it comes down to it, nova will probably lose less money taking handouts from the Big East and playing most OOC games on the road at paydays than they will remaining in FCS, and that will be why they move.

Maybe they'll end up with their 4 OOC games, only 1 home (usually a I-AA) and 3 away: @ Temple at the Linc (which will sort of be neutral) for the city championship (current series is called the "Mayor's Cup") and 2 at BCS for big payouts. Which would leave them 5 home and 7 away every year.