huthuthut wrote:Coastal has serious image problems and honestly doesn't measure up to the standards of the other SoCons. The Chants not only had several of their athletes jailed this past season for various infractions, I believe I read that the NCAA may be investigating some questionable eligibility issues. Their entrance requirements are much lower than the SoCons and their academic reputation is weak in comparison. In short Coastal is a lower tier school academically with a party school reputation and an unruly student population.
So, I'm sure you question why I'm promoting the Chants for SoCon membership.
Because I could see a great yearly rivalry football game with my alma mater, The Citadel. It would be a natural. It would easily become like the annual Carolina-Clemson game and perhaps as big! What a great shot in the arm that would be for FCS ball in the Southeast!
I could also see a basketball rivalry developing between College of Charleston and the Chants.
So what? Party school with a poor reputation academically---how about Appy? Western Carolina? It seems to me Coastal is no better, no worse than those monsters of academia!
huthuthut wrote:Coastal has serious image problems and honestly doesn't measure up to the standards of the other SoCons. The Chants not only had several of their athletes jailed this past season for various infractions, I believe I read that the NCAA may be investigating some questionable eligibility issues. Their entrance requirements are much lower than the SoCons and their academic reputation is weak in comparison. In short Coastal is a lower tier school academically with a party school reputation and an unruly student population.
So, I'm sure you question why I'm promoting the Chants for SoCon membership.
Because I could see a great yearly rivalry football game with my alma mater, The Citadel. It would be a natural. It would easily become like the annual Carolina-Clemson game and perhaps as big! What a great shot in the arm that would be for FCS ball in the Southeast!
I could also see a basketball rivalry developing between College of Charleston and the Chants.
So what? Party school with a poor reputation academically---how about Appy? Western Carolina? It seems to me Coastal is no better, no worse than those monsters of academia!
“It’s like someone found a manic, doom-prophesying hobo in a sandwich board, shaved him, shot him full of Zoloft and gave him a show.” - The Buffalo Beast commenting on Glenn Beck
“It’s like someone found a manic, doom-prophesying hobo in a sandwich board, shaved him, shot him full of Zoloft and gave him a show.” - The Buffalo Beast commenting on Glenn Beck
OL FU wrote:IF CCU has problems following the rules then they shouldn't be invited. I hate that.
While I understand the appreciation some have for the idea, I don't want to become a conference of just private schools. I know the Citadel isn't private but it certainly acts like it in many ways and feels like it in even more.
If the CAA were to bust up Richmond and or W&M would be a good choice, except they would do what I just said I don't want to do.
The problem is who do you take. We have two small private colleges within 40 miles of each other. I don't think we want to add GW 40 miles or so from Sparkle City or PC 40 miles from Greenville. There just aren't many quality larger public institutions in the footprint that make sense or would seem likely to join if invited.
W&M is not a private school, although it is a smaller, not a larger public institution.
OL FU wrote:IF CCU has problems following the rules then they shouldn't be invited. I hate that.
While I understand the appreciation some have for the idea, I don't want to become a conference of just private schools. I know the Citadel isn't private but it certainly acts like it in many ways and feels like it in even more.
If the CAA were to bust up Richmond and or W&M would be a good choice, except they would do what I just said I don't want to do.
The problem is who do you take. We have two small private colleges within 40 miles of each other. I don't think we want to add GW 40 miles or so from Sparkle City or PC 40 miles from Greenville. There just aren't many quality larger public institutions in the footprint that make sense or would seem likely to join if invited.
W&M is not a private school, although it is a smaller, not a larger public institution.
Thanks I knew that just forgot. But I think it would result in the same situation. My guess is that they have a "private" attitude, but maybe not.
The SOCON waiting on Kennesaw and getting into the Atlanta market with a public school would make the most sense.
Kallander is a joke of a commish, as you will see with the deterioration of the Big South in the next five years. I know G-W had to move due to travel costs mostly, but we should have stayed in the A-Sun at this point.
G-W in the SOCON would be a dream come true, but realistically, it will never happen.
LeadBolt wrote:
W&M is not a private school, although it is a smaller, not a larger public institution.
Thanks I knew that just forgot. But I think it would result in the same situation. My guess is that they have a "private" attitude, but maybe not.
I'm not sure what a "private" attitude is, but it might be hard to go back to a conference W&M left once before, even though it has changed quite a bit. We are compatible with Davidson on the SAT scores posted in the link above, perhaps that gives us the "private" attitude. Size wise we are larger than your private schools and smaller than your state schools, with the exception of The Citadel, with 5,850 undergraduates and 7,750 total students, more or less.
OL FU wrote:
Thanks I knew that just forgot. But I think it would result in the same situation. My guess is that they have a "private" attitude, but maybe not.
I'm not sure what a "private" attitude is, but it might be hard to go back to a conference W&M left once before, even though it has changed quite a bit. We are compatible with Davidson on the SAT scores posted in the link above, perhaps that gives us the "private" attitude. Size wise we are larger than your private schools and smaller than your state schools, with the exception of The Citadel, with 5,850 undergraduates and 7,750 total students, more or less.
I am not sure what private attitude is either. We will have to ask some of the public fans in the SoCon that hate the private schools and think they run the conference. But I assume it is a concern for schools joining the conference that (a) don't measure up academically (that is kind of broad, but it would certainly be one of the complaints about CCU joining as you have already read) and (b) schools that are looking for a launching pad to bigger conferences.
The Citadel is public but I would imagine on issues that divide the private and public schools, the Citadel tends to side with the private schools. Just my guess.
BTW, I am knowledgeable about your academic strengths. But I didn't realize that W&M was that large. I, too, doubt seriously the W&M would rejoin the SoCon and my comments were more my desires than anything practical. I probably should have only included Richmond in the comment about privates. Sorry, hope I didn't offend.
LeadBolt wrote:
I'm not sure what a "private" attitude is, but it might be hard to go back to a conference W&M left once before, even though it has changed quite a bit. We are compatible with Davidson on the SAT scores posted in the link above, perhaps that gives us the "private" attitude. Size wise we are larger than your private schools and smaller than your state schools, with the exception of The Citadel, with 5,850 undergraduates and 7,750 total students, more or less.
I am not sure what private attitude is either. We will have to ask some of the public fans in the SoCon that hate the private schools and think they run the conference. But I assume it is a concern for schools joining the conference that (a) don't measure up academically (that is kind of broad, but it would certainly be one of the complaints about CCU joining as you have already read) and (b) schools that are looking for a launching pad to bigger conferences.
The Citadel is public but I would imagine on issues that divide the private and public schools, the Citadel tends to side with the private schools. Just my guess.
BTW, I am knowledgeable about your academic strengths. But I didn't realize that W&M was that large. I, too, doubt seriously the W&M would rejoin the SoCon and my comments were more my desires than anything practical. I probably should have only included Richmond in the comment about privates. Sorry, hope I didn't offend.
No offense taken. W&M played in the Southern when I was there, and it was a good fit. I like being in the CAA, but assume it will break up. I would like to be in the SouCon if that happens, and would love to preserve the rivalry with UR. Just puzzled about the private school issue.
OL FU wrote:
I am not sure what private attitude is either. We will have to ask some of the public fans in the SoCon that hate the private schools and think they run the conference. But I assume it is a concern for schools joining the conference that (a) don't measure up academically (that is kind of broad, but it would certainly be one of the complaints about CCU joining as you have already read) and (b) schools that are looking for a launching pad to bigger conferences.
The Citadel is public but I would imagine on issues that divide the private and public schools, the Citadel tends to side with the private schools. Just my guess.
BTW, I am knowledgeable about your academic strengths. But I didn't realize that W&M was that large. I, too, doubt seriously the W&M would rejoin the SoCon and my comments were more my desires than anything practical. I probably should have only included Richmond in the comment about privates. Sorry, hope I didn't offend.
No offense taken. W&M played in the Southern when I was there, and it was a good fit. I like being in the CAA, but assume it will break up. I would like to be in the SouCon if that happens, and would love to preserve the rivalry with UR. Just puzzled about the private school issue.
Let me give you the history. Since you are familiar with the SoCon of the past you know that the SoCon historically has been comprised of public and private universities and colleges. A better description would be small and large since the Citadel is public but small. VMI would have fit the same description. If you look back at the modern SoCon, after the departure of the ACC schools we have typically been about 50/50 small and large. However, during the 70s and 80s we added more larger schools than smaller schools so the balance got out of line. Since the departure of Marshall the majority of the additions (at least football playing additions) have been private schools and it has upset some of the fans of the larger public institutions. They seem to feel like the smaller schools are trying to fill the conference with like size schools. Personally, I think the smaller schools are simply trying to maintain the balance that originally existed. If one looks at the overall number of schools (12 with three not playing football) the split is still close to 50/50 but the recent football additions have been Wofford and more recently Samford. It upsets the fans of the larger schools mainly due to the small fan bases of the smaller schools. The interesting thing is that I would image over the long term while ASU and GSU have maintained the advantage in attendance, the number 3 and 4 in attendance would probably be Furman and the Citadel ( Just a guess). Furman has slipped some in the last few years and I would imagine that Chattanooga passed them this year. But prior to this year and last, Chatt's attendance was abysmal.
Now as far as new members, the problem in recent years is that most of the possible candidates for growth have been smaller schools. When we look at larger schools that might join the market shrinks tremendously. You have read the problems with CCU. SC State may be a possibility if the MEAC choses the Heritage bowl over the playoffs. Jacksonville State was a possibility but with their announced intention of going FBS they were not a promising candidate. Same for Georgia state and Charlotte. EKU has been mentioned but they are out of the footprint unless we drag in some Western Virginia schools. Honestly, there a slim pickings with large schools for the SoCon unless we are willing to choose a start up like Kennesaw.
OL FU, what would you see the chances of Jacksonville U, if they chose to commit more resources to athletics, being a viable candidate for the Socon? It doesn't seem likely but they would be a worthy candidate in time, although not presently
youngterrier wrote:OL FU, what would you see the chances of Jacksonville U, if they chose to commit more resources to athletics, being a viable candidate for the Socon? It doesn't seem likely but they would be a worthy candidate in time, although not presently
Honestly, I know very little about them other than PFL football and Atlantic Sun basketball and that they are private and Joe Williams took them to the champ game against UCLA in the early 70s . What do you think?
Other than hiring Bell, have they shown any intent to upgrade fball and give scholarships.
Last edited by OL FU on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
youngterrier wrote:OL FU, what would you see the chances of Jacksonville U, if they chose to commit more resources to athletics, being a viable candidate for the Socon? It doesn't seem likely but they would be a worthy candidate in time, although not presently
Honestly, I know very little about them other than PFL football and Atlantic Sun basketball and that they are private and Joe Williams took them to the champ game against UCLA in the early 70s . What do you think?
Other than hiring Bell, have they shown any intent to upgrade fball and give scholarships.
I have no idea, but if they continue to be successful in the PFL I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to upgrade. They have a similar mold as many SoCon teams, being of about 4k students and private.
I think Jacksonville would be a wait and see. Kinda like USD with Harbaugh. They were good and they crowed alot but they couldn't beat a middle of the road Big Sky team and once Harbaugh disappeared, they have kinda fallen off the radar.
Jacksonville plays home games at DB Milne field. Question: Is this a stadium of any sort, or just a field with a few aluminum bleachers on the sidelines?
BTW, I would love to see any of the following come into (or back into) to SoCon: William & Mary, Richmond, SC State, JMU.
...and your football team sucks.... 
. What do you think?