America is Center Left

[SuperHornet]

761 military bases.

There's your budget solution right there.

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

[Chizzang]

OK. The 2010 elections were about absolutely nothing. The GOP gained 63 seats in the House and several more in the Senate for no apparent reason. Obama's political sails furled to the left and unfurled to the right. Voters said that they wanted spending cuts, lower taxes, and balanced budgets.

Now, the poll gives Americans the chance to show that they remain conservative in the macro sense, while "kicking the can" (a trite, overused phrase that I hate) in the micro sense. Soak the rich! Cut the military! Don't touch my entitlements! "Don't tax me, don't tax thee, tax the man behind the tree!" Nothing new under the sun. At some point, some President -- not the current gutless empty suit -- will have to tell the citizenry that the "Holy Trinity" of SS, Medicare and Medicaid will have to be drastically overhauled, and soon, or the whole country will go under. The MSM and the cable networks are making this point, but the politicos are in full retreat, and the voters (bless 'em) are sticking their collective heads in the sand. That's how I read this Godforsaken poll. Thank you.

Potential Post of the Year candidate...

[kalm]

OK. The 2010 elections were about absolutely nothing. The GOP gained 63 seats in the House and several more in the Senate for no apparent reason. Obama's political sails furled to the left and unfurled to the right. Voters said that they wanted spending cuts, lower taxes, and balanced budgets.

Now, the poll gives Americans the chance to show that they remain conservative in the macro sense, while "kicking the can" (a trite, overused phrase that I hate) in the micro sense. Soak the rich! Cut the military! Don't touch my entitlements! "Don't tax me, don't tax thee, tax the man behind the tree!" Nothing new under the sun. At some point, some President -- not the current gutless empty suit -- will have to tell the citizenry that the "Holy Trinity" of SS, Medicare and Medicaid will have to be drastically overhauled, and soon, or the whole country will go under. The MSM and the cable networks are making this point, but the politicos are in full retreat, and the voters (bless 'em) are sticking their collective heads in the sand. That's how I read this Godforsaken poll. Thank you.

Or we could vote in a real leader like Reagan who wasn't afraid to raise taxes 11 times in order to pay for at least part of the shit he was selling us. In other words there's no need to encourage Ivy, so sit yer conk ass down cleets!


Potential Post of the Year candidate...

[Baldy]

Feel free to enlighten us with your own interpretation of the poll results.

OK. The 2010 elections were about absolutely nothing. The GOP gained 63 seats in the House and several more in the Senate for no apparent reason. Obama's political sails furled to the left and unfurled to the right. Voters said that they wanted spending cuts, lower taxes, and balanced budgets.

Now, the poll gives Americans the chance to show that they remain conservative in the macro sense, while "kicking the can" (a trite, overused phrase that I hate) in the micro sense. Soak the rich! Cut the military! Don't touch my entitlements! "Don't tax me, don't tax thee, tax the man behind the tree!" Nothing new under the sun. At some point, some President -- not the current gutless empty suit -- will have to tell the citizenry that the "Holy Trinity" of SS, Medicare and Medicaid will have to be drastically overhauled, and soon, or the whole country will go under. The MSM and the cable networks are making this point, but the politicos are in full retreat, and the voters (bless 'em) are sticking their collective heads in the sand. That's how I read this Godforsaken poll. Thank you.

Word.

[Chizzang]

761 military bases.

There's your budget solution right there.

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

[TwinTownBisonFan]

761 military bases.

There's your budget solution right there.

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

Incorrect. All of it.

We have 761 military bases not because we need them. We have 761 military bases because DOD has become very savvy at self-preservation. It's a technique learned, oddly enough, from defense contractors looking to keep contracts whether we actually need what they are making or not.

spread the wealth.

put a base in as many districts and states as you can think of, thus making each one a part of a states economy, thus making them a special interest that their reps and sens got to bat for when the BRAC says "we really don't need this"

however - the blame doesn't entirely land at the feet of DoD... the bases themselves have become, in some cases, boondoggles unto themselves...

they are then tossed around as political chits. best example? Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota. Ellsworth could be consolidated in to Minot and Offutt AFB's - but, because at the time the closure was being debated, there was a fight for the Senate seat in SD, the Bush Administration used it as a pawn, suggesting the only way the base would stay open is if they replaced Daschle with Thune. (and no, I'm not suggesting that only GOPers do this, or things like it, it's just a good example)

Similarly, in ND - Conrad and Dorgan used every ounce of their clout to keep 3... 3! f'ing AFB's open, PLUS a reserve base in Fargo... overkill all of it. Consolidating the operations of those bases in Minot (or even Minot and GF) would not have hurt force readiness.

the cost of maintaining 761 bases is excessive... and it's a huge source of waste. and the only reason we don't do something about it is because, far more than pet spending projects on stuff like roads and bridges, this is where pork goes back to districts.

[SuperHornet]

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

[D1B]

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

Hate to break it to you SH, but our military sucks dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have great people, but we have way more fuck ups.

[Chizzang]

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

I stand by my statement...
70% of a service persons time is doing NOTHING
Yet they get paid - It's the ultimate NANNY state gig

[houndawg]

761 military bases.

There's your budget solution right there.

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

Utter nonsense.

[houndawg]

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

Anybody as out-of-touch as you must have been an officer.


I painted my share of federal buildings (barracks) and never volunteered once. Same with the swabbies painting their ships.

[SuperHornet]

You never heard of a COMREL project, HD? We had people volunteering for COMRELs both overseas and at home. We had a ton of people show up to a Habitat for Humanity deal in SD. That's not volunteering?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

You never heard of a COMREL project, HD? We had people volunteering for COMRELs both overseas and at home. We had a ton of people show up to a Habitat for Humanity deal in SD. That's not volunteering?

according to my buddy that's also called "brown nosin' time for the ambitious...

[houndawg]

You never heard of a COMREL project, HD? We had people volunteering for COMRELs both overseas and at home. We had a ton of people show up to a Habitat for Humanity deal in SD. That's not volunteering?

Officers sucking ass to get a leg up.

[SuperHornet]

You never heard of a COMREL project, HD? We had people volunteering for COMRELs both overseas and at home. We had a ton of people show up to a Habitat for Humanity deal in SD. That's not volunteering?

Officers sucking ass to get a leg up.

Um, no. I wasn't an officer. I worked for a living.

[YoUDeeMan]

"Don't tax me, don't tax thee, tax the man behind the tree!"

Ivytalk is hiding a secret.

On the outside , he is a compasionate conservative. But, behind closed doors, he writes children's books for Democrats.

[AZGrizFan]

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

70% of the time doing nothing? You must have been in a different military than I.

Oh, that's right. you were'nt IN the military.

Oh, and one more thing: many, many military personnel don't have time to pick garbage along the freeway, paint federal buildings, etc....they're too busy holding down a second job to make ends meet.

[AZGrizFan]

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

Hate to break it to you SH, but our military sucks dick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have great people, but we have way more fuck ups.

And yet you're so fucked up they wouldn't even take you.

[SuperHornet]

You realize MORE THAN 70% of the time military personnel are doing nothing and contributing nothing...
which is complete unacceptable in even in the Nanny State

Military Personnel should be building and working right here in the good old USA
Picking up garbage on the freeway
Painting Federal Buildings
Providing some service

70% of the time doing nothing? You must have been in a different military than I.

Oh, that's right. you were'nt IN the military.

Oh, and one more thing: many, many military personnel don't have time to pick garbage along the freeway, paint federal buildings, etc....they're too busy holding down a second job to make ends meet.

You wouldn't believe how many servicemembers are on welfare and food stamps because of punks like Chizzy.

[AZGrizFan]

Do you actually believe that a guy who has actually served his country is going to let this utter fiction slide? At least TTBF has a decent argument. This, however, is complete hogwash.

The entire purpose of a military is to protect the country from bad guys. That means a lot of practice to do the job. That's EXACTLY what they do, and it often includes working long weekends while YOU are kicking it with a beer in your hand. And on their off time, they do volunteer work like cleaning up freeways and painting their own buildings and ships (which ARE federal, BTW). Who do you think backs up the firefighters when an out-of-control brush fire hits? Marines and Soldiers, that's who. I've seen active duty units activated to do that.

Check your facts before you run off at the mouth. Better yet, check with TTBF before you run your drivel.

I stand by my statement...
70% of a service persons time is doing NOTHING
Yet they get paid - It's the ultimate NANNY state gig

Well....you stand by your statement, huh?

If we're just gonna pull statistics out of our ass, then I stand by my statement that 90% of all Harvard grads who live in Seattle are needledicked nitwits.

[houndawg]

Officers sucking ass to get a leg up.

Um, no. I wasn't an officer. I worked for a living.

You had to be. I never saw an NCO with shiit as weak as yours.

The reason we have so many troops on food stamps is because we refuse to quit building crap the Pentagon doesn't want for the Defense Welfare Industry.

[AZGrizFan]

Um, no. I wasn't an officer. I worked for a living.

You had to be. I never saw an NCO with shiit as weak as yours.

The reason we have so many troops on food stamps is because we refuse to quit building crap the Pentagon doesn't want for the Defense Welfare Industry.

Now you've totally changed your tune, Myron. Typical grunt potato-peeler. Gets talked into a logical corner and completely changes his argument. You weren't the sharpest tool in the shed at basic, were ya, 'dawg?

[Grizalltheway]

A temporary solution at best and one that invites disaster.

You either cram units into tinier and tinier spaces (and therefore reduce the training area available to each), thereby reducing effective readiness when the , or you eliminate units at the same time, thereby making for longer deployments and making it harder for the remaining units to actually do their job. Or you can just eliminate the military altogether.

The problem is that this would violate at least the Preamble of the Constitution ("to provide for the common defence") and possibly Article I, Section 8 (which grants the Congress the power to assemble and Army and Navy, to define and punish "Piracies committed on the High Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations", and the maintenance of a Militia). Given this Administration's loose interpretation of the Constitution, I could actually see this happening. But what a disaster. As soon as we dissolve our armed forces, the Commies and Moslems will swoop in and snatch our pearl a la Red Dawn.

Wouldn't you just LOVE that?

Incorrect. All of it.

We have 761 military bases not because we need them. We have 761 military bases because DOD has become very savvy at self-preservation. It's a technique learned, oddly enough, from defense contractors looking to keep contracts whether we actually need what they are making or not.

spread the wealth.

put a base in as many districts and states as you can think of, thus making each one a part of a states economy, thus making them a special interest that their reps and sens got to bat for when the BRAC says "we really don't need this"

however - the blame doesn't entirely land at the feet of DoD... the bases themselves have become, in some cases, boondoggles unto themselves...

they are then tossed around as political chits. best example? Ellsworth AFB in South Dakota. Ellsworth could be consolidated in to Minot and Offutt AFB's - but, because at the time the closure was being debated, there was a fight for the Senate seat in SD, the Bush Administration used it as a pawn, suggesting the only way the base would stay open is if they replaced Daschle with Thune. (and no, I'm not suggesting that only GOPers do this, or things like it, it's just a good example)

Similarly, in ND - Conrad and Dorgan used every ounce of their clout to keep 3... 3! f'ing AFB's open, PLUS a reserve base in Fargo... overkill all of it. Consolidating the operations of those bases in Minot (or even Minot and GF) would not have hurt force readiness.

the cost of maintaining 761 bases is excessive... and it's a huge source of waste. and the only reason we don't do something about it is because, far more than pet spending projects on stuff like roads and bridges, this is where pork goes back to districts.

Eisenhower warned us about it, but nobody listened (or cared).

[TwinTownBisonFan]

the reason we have soldiers families on food stamps (and this is straight from multiple guys who are in now, and have been over the past 10 years) is that either a) that family can't budget for shit or b) the dude won't let his wife find work (which i was surprised to hear still happened) or c) their family situation is more complicated than they're letting on

[SuperHornet]

Um, no. I wasn't an officer. I worked for a living.

You had to be. I never saw an NCO with shiit as weak as yours.

The reason we have so many troops on food stamps is because we refuse to quit building crap the Pentagon doesn't want for the Defense Welfare Industry.

Give me a freaking break, HD. I made it as far as RP1....