Confederate Flag

[BDKJMU]

Most weren't brought here with the sanction of the United States. Most were brought here while we were still a colony or smuggled in later. The importation of slaves was outlawed less than 20 years after we became a country.

And, there's no way to know claims like BDK's that the "vast majority" of slaves involved in the African slave trade were captured by other Africans. Stating that as fact is bullshit.

You're right, "vast majority" is highly exaggerrated.
I'm not familiar with the number, and it's probably highly debatable, but AFricans were catching and selling other Africans to the Dutch and English. It's insane. What's even crazier is that the largest slaveowner in South Carolina was a black man.

I remember when I was doing commercial real estate, we did the history of a black church. What we found was that from 1823-1865, the church paid taxes on 10 slaves.

You responded about the same time I did, but nope, it ain't exaggerated.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Do you want to start banning the political bumper stickers that are on cars at schools too? Some folks want everybody to know every pet cause/political affiliation they have by placing some momento on their vehicles in plain sight. I'm not sure how you draw a line on a confederate flag vs. a pro/against abortion sticker.

People have been drawing the line on the confederate flag for years now. This isn't something that just came up recently.

they have been, but that doesn't make it valid. it's political expression, the most sacred of all of our freedoms under the Bill of Rights.

[Chizzang]

This may shock some board conks...

this guy should have his job back.

1. he has the flag on HIS truck, not on the school bus
2. he's not a teacher, he's a fucking bus driver
3. while i find that flag and all who fly it repugnant - they, as individuals have every right to posses it and fly it without restriction by their government

Agreed... he should also be allowed to burn a flag or pee on a flag

[GannonFan]

The article said the school district owned the bus yard where he parked. If it was an independent bus service that contracted work for the school district, I could see a difference. But if you have a school district owned entity then school rules are going to apply.

Sure if it's near a school I can see that. He should just be able to park off property and solve the problem then. There must be a city street leading up to this property that he needed to make use of.

I don't think he was interested in finding a workaround solution to the problem.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

People have been drawing the line on the confederate flag for years now. This isn't something that just came up recently.

I don't disagree that it is inappropriate around children, but if he asserts First amendment rights what's to keep him from drawing the parallel I illustrated? Ban his flag but allow someone to rail on about religious/abortion/gay issues with a bumper sticker?

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

[ASUG8]

I don't disagree that it is inappropriate around children, but if he asserts First amendment rights what's to keep him from drawing the parallel I illustrated? Ban his flag but allow someone to rail on about religious/abortion/gay issues with a bumper sticker?

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

GF made the comment about having this around kids. Personally I think kids are too sheltered already and need to get exposed to things that are good/bad/indifferent because that's the world they're going to inherit. Could also be the reason I don't have any kids.....

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

GF made the comment about having this around kids. Personally I think kids are too sheltered already and need to get exposed to things that are good/bad/indifferent because that's the world they're going to inherit. Could also be the reason I don't have any kids.....

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Sure if it's near a school I can see that. He should just be able to park off property and solve the problem then. There must be a city street leading up to this property that he needed to make use of.

I don't think he was interested in finding a workaround solution to the problem.

He probably wasn't but he also shouldn't have to. With discrimination against all sorts of groups setting precedent this seems to fall in with it all.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

GF made the comment about having this around kids. Personally I think kids are too sheltered already and need to get exposed to things that are good/bad/indifferent because that's the world they're going to inherit. Could also be the reason I don't have any kids.....

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

Indeed, as it can be in any era. Sanitizing everything ugly so that the "kids can be protected" is fucking silly ass shit.

The soft little bitches everybody is so proud of raising will have to toughen up at some point. They are gonna blame you for keeping the atmosphere so sanitized anyway.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Just don't bring it to the school then - it isn't the first time that people that work for a school and around children are not permitted to do something that outside of being a school employee, on school grounds, would be fine. Just because speech is free doesn't mean there aren't circumstances where there are consequences.

Do you want to start banning the political bumper stickers that are on cars at schools too? Some folks want everybody to know every pet cause/political affiliation they have by placing some momento on their vehicles in plain sight. I'm not sure how you draw a line on a confederate flag vs. a pro/against abortion sticker.

You might want to add that anyone that shows up on school property in a union made vehicle should be banned as well. Lets keep this fair and balanced.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I don't disagree that it is inappropriate around children, but if he asserts First amendment rights what's to keep him from drawing the parallel I illustrated? Ban his flag but allow someone to rail on about religious/abortion/gay issues with a bumper sticker?

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

Totally agree Ursus, most kids at school have bad teachers and dont know their history anyway. I am sure most kids dont even notice let alone care about somebodies flag, the "vast majority" just want to get out of school so they can go have sex, smoke some dope and play video games.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

Totally agree Ursus, most kids at school have bad teachers and dont know their history anyway. I am sure most kids dont even notice let alone care about somebodies flag, the "vast majority" just want to get out of school so they can go have sex, smoke some dope and play video games.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Totally agree Ursus, most kids at school have bad teachers and dont know their history anyway. I am sure most kids dont even notice let alone care about somebodies flag, the "vast majority" just want to get out of school so they can go have sex, smoke some dope and play video games.

It's good to see some things aren't changing isn't it?

[Vidav]

Agree, but I can't even see how it's inappropriate around children. History is what it is but history is not inappropriate and could be a good learning tool for them. Kids only think things are inappropriate that their parents or teachers tell them to think of as inappropriate otherwise they are just willing to learn about it.

That shit wasn't inappropriate when I was growing up and it didn't matter if I saw it...ever.

Totally agree Ursus, most kids at school have bad teachers and dont know their history anyway. I am sure most kids dont even notice let alone care about somebodies flag, the "vast majority" just want to get out of school so they can go have sex, smoke some dope and play video games.

Wait, what's wrong with that?

[GannonFan]

Do you want to start banning the political bumper stickers that are on cars at schools too? Some folks want everybody to know every pet cause/political affiliation they have by placing some momento on their vehicles in plain sight. I'm not sure how you draw a line on a confederate flag vs. a pro/against abortion sticker.

You might want to add that anyone that shows up on school property in a union made vehicle should be banned as well. Lets keep this fair and balanced.

Come on man, we're talking real life here. Everyone knows that there are no more unions in the car making business.

[ASUG8]

You might want to add that anyone that shows up on school property in a union made vehicle should be banned as well. Lets keep this fair and balanced.

Come on man, we're talking real life here. Everyone knows that there are no more unions in the car making business.

....not the profitable ones anyway.

[JohnStOnge]

I don't really like the fact that they insisted on having him remove the flag but to me they should have the right to terminate him. To me the employer/employee relationship is a private relationship that either party has a right to terminate for whatever reason they have. It is not a free speech issue at all.

"Free speech" means government can't arrest you for what you say. It has nothing to do with whether or not your employer can disassociate itself with you.

The guy had a decision to make. He could decide that having his flag was more important than that particular job or he could decide the job was more important than flying the flag. He chose the flag.

[kalm]

"We're doing the best we can," Webber said of the financial hardship the loss of his job means to his family. "I must say, my 8-year-old makes me proud. She took my picture from the Mail Tribune (newspaper) to school for show and tell. She was telling the kids in her class, `This is my dad standing up for what he believes in and I'm proud of him for that."'

He should send his 8 year old to school with a confederate flag tee shirt and teach her that standing up for yer redneck convictions is sometimes about financial sacrifice.

This wouldn't happen in Northern Oregon.

[citdog]

we were right. Article X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In this case, while it sickens me to see such a sacred symbol debased as far as to be placed on a pickup truck, the bus driver in question is being lynched by the klan of political correctness.

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

As it should have been......and it should have gone like this......."well twintown that Flag is a symbol of the bravery and gallantry of a noble and righteous people who were in deadly earnest and meant to maintain their rights as they understood them and were passed down to them by the Fathers or die in the attempt. It is a symbol that some things are worth fighting for and defending. the MEN of the Confederate Army ill fed, ill clothed, unsheltered, unpaid, and with greatly inferior weapons for four tremendous years they bore The Cause of the South on the points of their shining bayonets. They won victory after victory and held at bay as powerful and well equipped invader as the world had ever seen. Seven commanders faced General Lee in the two years and ten months he led the gallant little Army of Northern Virginia. In that period this army killed, wounded, and captured 262,000 of the enemy. A number more than twice as great as the total force under his own command during that period. Of the seven officers that opposed Lee six were sent to " the scrap heap" or cashiered. The seventh, Grant, was defeated more often and more signally than the others but was allowed to hold on, in the correct belief, that overwhelming numbers and resources must finally turn the scales. When asked to name the five greatest generals of the English speaking race Lord Wolseley chose Marlborough, Wellington, Washington, Lee, and Jackson. When the questioner said, but my Lord, you do not include Grant yet you know that Grant defeated Lee. Wolseley replied "can you call a general truly great who lost more men in thirty days than his opponent had in his entire army?" In four years there were 605,000 men in the Confederate Army and Navy. In the United States Army and Navy in four years there were 2,778,000. Those Southern Men were NOT traitors or rebels but brave men and true who knew their rights and knowing dared maintain them. For loyalty is not nurtured on untruths. Distorting or suppressing the plain facts of history does not breed patriotism. The Confederates fought on and gallantly and lost. The Southern People accept the result, but long for their own Nation and Flag, without one tinge of shame or apology for them, but rather with swelling pride that in our veins flows the blood of gallant men who dared to fight for the right as God gave them the ability to see it"

[93henfan]

Whoopsy DAISY!!!

[death dealer]

I'd like to see a picture of the flag in question. I doubt very seriously if it was actually a true battle flag. Unfortunately, most publicly educated morons in this country couldn't pick out the flags flown by the Confederate States of America if their lives depended upon it.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

\

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

As it should have been... the south was treasonous and got everything coming to traitors

FIFY

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

we were right. Article X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In this case, while it sickens me to see such a sacred symbol debased as far as to be placed on a pickup truck, the bus driver in question is being lynched by the klan of political correctness.

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

As it should have been......and it should have gone like this......."well twintown that Flag is a symbol of the bravery and gallantry of a noble and righteous people who were in deadly earnest and meant to maintain their rights as they understood them and were passed down to them by the Fathers or die in the attempt. It is a symbol that some things are worth fighting for and defending. the MEN of the Confederate Army ill fed, ill clothed, unsheltered, unpaid, and with greatly inferior weapons for four tremendous years they bore The Cause of the South on the points of their shining bayonets. They won victory after victory and held at bay as powerful and well equipped invader as the world had ever seen. Seven commanders faced General Lee in the two years and ten months he led the gallant little Army of Northern Virginia. In that period this army killed, wounded, and captured 262,000 of the enemy. A number more than twice as great as the total force under his own command during that period. Of the seven officers that opposed Lee six were sent to " the scrap heap" or cashiered. The seventh, Grant, was defeated more often and more signally than the others but was allowed to hold on, in the correct belief, that overwhelming numbers and resources must finally turn the scales. When asked to name the five greatest generals of the English speaking race Lord Wolseley chose Marlborough, Wellington, Washington, Lee, and Jackson. When the questioner said, but my Lord, you do not include Grant yet you know that Grant defeated Lee. Wolseley replied "can you call a general truly great who lost more men in thirty days than his opponent had in his entire army?" In four years there were 605,000 men in the Confederate Army and Navy. In the United States Army and Navy in four years there were 2,778,000. Those Southern Men were NOT traitors or rebels but brave men and true who knew their rights and knowing dared maintain them. For loyalty is not nurtured on untruths. Distorting or suppressing the plain facts of history does not breed patriotism. The Confederates fought on and gallantly and lost. The Southern People accept the result, but long for their own Nation and Flag, without one tinge of shame or apology for them, but rather with swelling pride that in our veins flows the blood of gallant men who dared to fight for the right as God gave them the ability to see it"

Truly a pleasure to see you back in the race Citdog!

[YoUDeeMan]

When I was a kid, seeing rednecks with that flag was, for my parents and teachers a "teaching moment"

Depending on what they taught, they were either open minded parents or bigots. You seem pretty set in your ways for a self-described Liberal.

[citdog]

Whoopsy DAISY!!!

if those 15,000 men couldn't hold, because they did seize that wall, no 15,000 men ever made could have held it.