Villanova will announce it will move its football program to

[MALVES21]

http://brynmawr.patch.com/articles/more ... east-bound

The Wildcats would begin Big East play possibly by 2014.
By Joseph Santoliquito | Email the author | March 11, 2011

As April approaches, the news seems more and more imminent that Villanova will announce it will move its football program to the Football Bowl Subdivision level (Division I-A) and join the Big East in football, possibly for the 2014 season.
So far, what is known is that Villanova will be building a football support building where the east end zone is located.
A number of Big East sources have confirmed that Villanova is the leading contender to make the Big East a 10-team conference in football. The Big East is currently the smallest Bowl Championship Series (BCS) conference in the country.
Secondly, Villanova itself has been trying to drum up support from alumni for the program and the new football support building. According to a recent story in the Sporting News, “members of the athletic administration held a meeting for 'major boosters' at the Syracuse basketball game. That meeting included a speech from Villanova coach Andrew Talley as well as pledges from some donors. VUhoops.com also reported that ‘prominent’ Board of Trustees members have been ‘telegraphing’ their votes to major donors.”
The Big East has been looking to expand in football to strengthen the conference in fear of the league being raided by the Big Ten and Atlantic Coast conferences, with prime Big East candidates Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Rutgers as possible departures. If any two, or all three, of those schools left the conference, it would weaken the Big East in basketball, too.
If Villanova, which currently plays at the Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) level and won the 2009 FCS national title, entered its football program in the Big East Conference that already includes all other Villanova sports, it would bolster the conference and maybe prevent a raid from another conference.
Right now, with Villanova’s basketball team struggling, the prospect of the Wildcats joining the Big East in football is one of the more positive sports news items on the Radnor campus. The shame of it is, if Villanova does make the move, it won’t affect anyone currently on the team.
“To be honest, I’m not that informed on the subject and I’m kind of indifferent since I’m out of the program,” said Villanova’s massive senior offensive lineman Ben Ijalana, a possible first-round NFL draft choice in late-April and 2010 Maxwell Club honoree. “Right now, I’m working independently and working toward my degree in criminal justice. But Villanova has been good to me, and anything that helps the school, I’m for. During the season, we heard things, but we didn’t talk too much about it. Our focus was on winning games. It’s something we never really looked that deeply into, since I really don’t think it effects any of the current players, or players like me who are about to graduate.”
And though Talley isn’t permitted to openly comment on the possible move, some sources close to the program do admit that he’s very much behind the move, evident in not only the new level of players Talley recruited this past season, but in how hard he’s been banging the drum to alumni.
“Coach Talley is very much behind this,” said one Villanova source close to the program. “This is like his baby. I can understand why, with the chance to revamp the whole program and all the time he’s put into the program. The fact that he’s won the national title and could make Villanova a winner at the [FBS] level is a big deal to him, and the alumni. It looks like it’s a move they have to make, and with everything they’ve put into the studies and reaching out to the alumni and the area residents, it looks more and more like a move they will make.”

[bluehenbillk]

Talley has been on record for wanting to move up since the 90's. I don't know what will happen, but if you put a gun to my head I think by a narrow vote they decide to move up. I believe that because I think the other option just is a known loser.

[GannonFan]

I agree - a vote not to move up would be shocking - they bleed money galore now, at least moving up hold out the potential that one day they'll bleed less money. Interesting thing about Talley, though, is you wonder if he'll coach long enough to make nova a winner at the FBS level (assuming that nova ever becomes a winner at that level). He'll be 71 years old in 2014. Tubby was 75 when he retired - not sure nova's going to be a winning program in just 5 years in the Big East.

[andy7171]

Still don't get what they'll do for a stadium.

There ain't shit for space anywhere near larger enough to build a Navy Marine Corp mid size stadium. I don't even think if they played else where a couple years and tore down and built up where the current stadium is, would it fit.

[mainejeff]

Something just doesn't sit right about the whole Big East thing..........TCU? Villanova?......the conference is obviously getting desperate to save itself, which I think in the end (about 5 years from now) will be an exercise in futility. The Big Ten, SEC and ACC will ultimately all end up with 16 conference members which means 12 schools will be moving in or out from somewhere. I think that this is how it ends up:

Big Ten adds:

Rutgers
Syracuse
Missouri
Kansas

SEC adds:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

ACC adds:

UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
Louisville

[clenz]

Where does K state and Iowa State end up?

[GannonFan]

Still don't get what they'll do for a stadium.

There ain't **** for space anywhere near larger enough to build a Navy Marine Corp mid size stadium. I don't even think if they played else where a couple years and tore down and built up where the current stadium is, would it fit.

They'll never build their own stadium. Never. You're right, there's no land anywhere to build one near/on campus, and really, there's no land even in the county to build one. And to make it worse, nova's a private school so there's little to no chance they'll get local or state money to build one, and even mighty UConn needed the state to basically build them a stadium. And the Linc will be forever out of their reach too - the Eagles don't want to share it with anyone (and don't need to financially) and they only have to suffer Temple renting it (even for which they have a jacked up rental fee for Temple) because the city put up so much money and Temple is in the city (nova is not a city school as Radnor is clearly not part of Philly).

The best they can hope for is to expand PPL park. But that's co-owned by the county (Delaware County) and MLS (if not the league, then the team). The place cost $120M to build and even though they built in somethings to make expansion to 30k possible (from the current 20k), that itself would cost at least another $50k, and that number is probably lowballed.

People have pooh poohed the stadium angle, but a 20k seat stadium will never let them bring in a big name OOC team (Penn St, Notre Dame, etc). nova's going to be forced to go the Rutgers route and bring in MEAC teams as OOC home games. Granted, that may draw considering the games will be in Chester, but it's interesting that nova's home OOC schedule will probably be worse in FBS than it is today in FCS.

[GannonFan]

Something just doesn't sit right about the whole Big East thing..........TCU? Villanova?......the conference is obviously getting desperate to save itself, which I think in the end (about 5 years from now) will be an exercise in futility. The Big Ten, SEC and ACC will ultimately all end up with 16 conference members which means 12 schools will be moving in or out from somewhere. I think that this is how it ends up:

Big Ten adds:

Rutgers
Syracuse
Missouri
Kansas

SEC adds:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

ACC adds:

UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
Louisville

I agree, although I would change some of the teams around and put them elsewhere. The Big East is grabbing at straws to hang on and probably won't survive long term. Conferences like the Big Ten and the SEC are bringing in media revenue that's almost 10-20 times more per school than the Big East can do - eventually, year after year, that will spell the end to the Big East. nova's hope is that if they put their foot in the water with football maybe they'll be swept up into another conference. Frankly, I think there could be a few basketball-centric schools (Kansas for instance) that also get left out in the cold and there'd be a decent national basketball conference out there for the likes of nova to be a part of. I don't think FBS football does anything, positive or negative, for their basketball program. That will stand on its own anyway when all is said and done.

[BDKJMU]

If Nebraska is leaving the Big 12 for the Big 10 er Big 11, and Colorado is leaving the Big 12 for the Pac 10, I don't get why the Big 12 didn't offer TCU. Fits right in the Big 12's geographic footprint. Who else is the Big 12 gonna get instead?

TCU and the Big East are going to spend a massive amount of travel $ throughout the year with 20 or so varsity sports teams...

[mainejeff]

Where does K state and Iowa State end up?

Good question.......if the changes happened like I presented, there wouldn't be a lot of options for them conference wise for football + all sports. The Mountain West would seem to be the best option for them if they even wanted them. The list of leftover FBS schools could be quite an interesting hodge podge:

From East to West:

Villanova
South Florida
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas State
Baylor
Texas Tech
TCU

The Mountain West stands at 10 for football (Hawaii - football only......minus the 3 that are leaving and adding Boise State, Nevada, and Fresno State). They could do a total power play and add the leftovers from the Big 12 + TCU/BYU (ouch!) which would make the MWC look something like this:

Kansas State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas Tech
New Mexico
Wyoming
BYU

Boise State
Colorado State
Air Force
Nevada
UNLV
Fresno State
San Diego State
Hawaii (football only)

[mainejeff]

Villanova could have an outside shot at the ACC but their football aspirations are such a crapshoot at this point. There's no doubt in my mind that if Villanova had a solid FBS football program that the ACC would take them over West Virginia in a heartbeat (and they may take them regardless).

The leftovers if you include Big East castoffs, Conference USA, possible CAA FBS wannabes + UMass, Temple & Charlotte:

UMass
Temple
Villanova/West Virginia
Marshall
JMU
ODU
Charlotte
East Carolina
Cincinnati
Memphis
Georgia State
Central Florida
South Florida
UAB
Southern Miss

Should be enough to cobble together a decent "poor man's" Big East. I just don't see Villanova in that conference, so let's say that Villanova weasels their way into the ACC.......the West Virginia is part of this group.......I think that this is what you end up seeing for a new 12 team all-sports FBS league:

UMass
Temple
Cincinnati
West Virginia
JMU
ODU

Charlotte
East Carolina
Memphis
Georgia State
Central Florida
South Florida

[Wedgebuster]

Pretty much been carved in the stone up on snob hill, if KU thinks they are going somewhere, they better plan on bringing their little brothers KSU along with them, or it will be a no go. I have no idea about the Iowas, but I do know this to be true about KU and KSU.

[UNI88]

Something just doesn't sit right about the whole Big East thing..........TCU? Villanova?......the conference is obviously getting desperate to save itself, which I think in the end (about 5 years from now) will be an exercise in futility. The Big Ten, SEC and ACC will ultimately all end up with 16 conference members which means 12 schools will be moving in or out from somewhere. I think that this is how it ends up:

Big Ten adds:

Rutgers
Syracuse
Missouri
Kansas

SEC adds:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

ACC adds:

UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
Louisville

I don't think Kansas is even on the Big10's radar. As I mentioned earlier this is about tv sets and Kansas football doesn't bring enough of them. The Big10 is or would consider 2-3 of Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn & Maryland because they give them penetration into east coast tv markets plus their departure puts the Big East on shaky footing. Missouri is a possibility because of better penetration into St. Louis (there are a fair number of Illinois alumni in St. Louis) and into Kansas City. IMO, they ultimately want to gut the Big East and force Notre Dame to make a decision to join. If the Big East falls apart, Notre Dame either joins the Big10 or stays independent in football and joins a pseudo all catholic conference with Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Marquette, etc. for all other sports.

The Big10 isn't interested in Pitt because Penn St already delivers the majority of the tv sets in Pittsburgh and surrounding areas. West Virginia is also a reasonably good geographic fit for the Big10 but they don't bring enough tv sets.

Despite it's basketball program, Kansas would likely be stuck with Iowa St and Kansas St and looking at either the Mountain West, Conference USA or whatever's left of the Big East.

Texas wants to be the big dog in a conference and I don't think they're going to be able to demand enough influence in the SEC so I don't think that will happen. IMO, their most likely long-term home if the B12 falls apart is the PAC. It is possible but unlikely that Texas A&M breaks with Texas and goes to the SEC.

TCU was never a serious consideration for the B12 because Texas and Texas A&M already deliver a majority of tv sets in the state of Texas.

Did I emphasize the fact that it's all about tv sets? I believe that Indiana makes more money (around $20 million off the top of my head) than Notre Dame because of the Big10 Network and other tv deals. Other conferences and schools have all caught onto this and are looking to catch up while the Big10 is looking to maximize its revenue.

[GannonFan]

Agree, Kansas was the obvious one I saw that would be without a home, and there was a very real threat of that too when the most recent conference reshufflings were being bandied about. Great basketball program, but the football program doesn't do anything for anyone and football drives the car - bball is a sideshow money-wise. And yes, money of course is what will dictate things - conferences that can't come close to what the Big Ten is bringing (basically $20M per year per school) won't be around for long, and right now, the Big East is bringing something like 10-20 times less than that to each school. That won't get it done.

[mainejeff]

I don't think Kansas is even on the Big10's radar. As I mentioned earlier this is about tv sets and Kansas football doesn't bring enough of them. The Big10 is or would consider 2-3 of Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn & Maryland because they give them penetration into east coast tv markets plus their departure puts the Big East on shaky footing. Missouri is a possibility because of better penetration into St. Louis (there are a fair number of Illinois alumni in St. Louis) and into Kansas City. IMO, they ultimately want to gut the Big East and force Notre Dame to make a decision to join. If the Big East falls apart, Notre Dame either joins the Big10 or stays independent in football and joins a pseudo all catholic conference with Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Marquette, etc. for all other sports.

The Big10 isn't interested in Pitt because Penn St already delivers the majority of the tv sets in Pittsburgh and surrounding areas. West Virginia is also a reasonably good geographic fit for the Big10 but they don't bring enough tv sets.

Despite it's basketball program, Kansas would likely be stuck with Iowa St and Kansas St and looking at either the Mountain West, Conference USA or whatever's left of the Big East.

Texas wants to be the big dog in a conference and I don't think they're going to be able to demand enough influence in the SEC so I don't think that will happen. IMO, their most likely long-term home if the B12 falls apart is the PAC. It is possible but unlikely that Texas A&M breaks with Texas and goes to the SEC.

TCU was never a serious consideration for the B12 because Texas and Texas A&M already deliver a majority of tv sets in the state of Texas.

Did I emphasize the fact that it's all about tv sets? I believe that Indiana makes more money (around $20 million off the top of my head) than Notre Dame because of the Big10 Network and other tv deals. Other conferences and schools have all caught onto this and are looking to catch up while the Big10 is looking to maximize its revenue.

I know that it is all about the TV sets, but there may be 1 or 2 instances upcoming where it also becomes about politics, traditions, and "you get this if you take that too".

[collegesportsinfo]

Something just doesn't sit right about the whole Big East thing..........TCU? Villanova?......the conference is obviously getting desperate to save itself, which I think in the end (about 5 years from now) will be an exercise in futility. The Big Ten, SEC and ACC will ultimately all end up with 16 conference members which means 12 schools will be moving in or out from somewhere. I think that this is how it ends up:

Big Ten adds:

Rutgers
Syracuse
Missouri
Kansas

SEC adds:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

ACC adds:

UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
Louisville

Wow, what a HUGE stretch that is from you just from the addition of TCU and Villanova to the Big East.

I don't know how those additions seem to make you think there is some grand plan for the other conferences to expand to 16.

It could always be as simple as:
By adding TCU:

* TCU is the best non-BCS school available even remotely in the Big East footprint...top 3 programs nationally being Boise St., TCU and BYU.

* The Big East has made it clear that they want to improve their football image and power

* With the departures of Utah and BYU, the Big East has the opportunity to preserve it's BCS spot, despite the conferences poor rating, simply by adding TCU: Take the best of the MWC (the conference closest to passing the Big East) and you leave the MWC wounded.

* TCU adds the Dallas/FW market to the Big East to assist in their current TV negotiations (as well as recruiting grounds)


By adding Villanova:
* The Big East could just as well be making it clear that they expect to remain as a hybrid. Because adding Nova for football means they get their 10th member without having to add another all-sports school...which was the problem with adding UCF.

* Big East wants football in Philadelphia, access to that market. More now than ever with the escalating TV contracts.



Realy no X-files stuff. The Big East (if they do add Nova) really made the easiest moves possible to maintain their overall stability of their hybrid conference. They add 2 football programs, 1 being better than any of their current programs, and the second being a current member of the conference.

[collegesportsinfo]

Something just doesn't sit right about the whole Big East thing..........TCU? Villanova?......the conference is obviously getting desperate to save itself, which I think in the end (about 5 years from now) will be an exercise in futility. The Big Ten, SEC and ACC will ultimately all end up with 16 conference members which means 12 schools will be moving in or out from somewhere. I think that this is how it ends up:

Big Ten adds:

Rutgers
Syracuse
Missouri
Kansas

SEC adds:

Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

ACC adds:

UConn
Pitt
West Virginia
Louisville

I don't think Kansas is even on the Big10's radar. As I mentioned earlier this is about tv sets and Kansas football doesn't bring enough of them. The Big10 is or would consider 2-3 of Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn & Maryland because they give them penetration into east coast tv markets plus their departure puts the Big East on shaky footing. Missouri is a possibility because of better penetration into St. Louis (there are a fair number of Illinois alumni in St. Louis) and into Kansas City. IMO, they ultimately want to gut the Big East and force Notre Dame to make a decision to join. If the Big East falls apart, Notre Dame either joins the Big10 or stays independent in football and joins a pseudo all catholic conference with Georgetown, Providence, St. Johns, Marquette, etc. for all other sports.

The Big10 isn't interested in Pitt because Penn St already delivers the majority of the tv sets in Pittsburgh and surrounding areas. West Virginia is also a reasonably good geographic fit for the Big10 but they don't bring enough tv sets.

Despite it's basketball program, Kansas would likely be stuck with Iowa St and Kansas St and looking at either the Mountain West, Conference USA or whatever's left of the Big East.

Texas wants to be the big dog in a conference and I don't think they're going to be able to demand enough influence in the SEC so I don't think that will happen. IMO, their most likely long-term home if the B12 falls apart is the PAC. It is possible but unlikely that Texas A&M breaks with Texas and goes to the SEC.

TCU was never a serious consideration for the B12 because Texas and Texas A&M already deliver a majority of tv sets in the state of Texas.

Did I emphasize the fact that it's all about tv sets? I believe that Indiana makes more money (around $20 million off the top of my head) than Notre Dame because of the Big10 Network and other tv deals. Other conferences and schools have all caught onto this and are looking to catch up while the Big10 is looking to maximize its revenue.

You're right UNi88, because they're not.

This thread jumped off a cliff real fast. I'm out of here like Mr. Belvedere.

[mainejeff]

You're right UNi88, because they're not.

This thread jumped off a cliff real fast. I'm out of here like Mr. Belvedere.

Stop being such a baby, Quinn.

You don't have a monopoly on conference expansion talk.

[ngineer]

Huge mistake for 'nova. People never learn from history. How quickly they have forgotten the 1970's that led to football's dissolution. There is not enough support, i.e. attendance, nor facility. "Higher Education's" priorities are getting more warped all the time.

[Fresno St. Alum]

You're right UNi88, because they're not.

This thread jumped off a cliff real fast. I'm out of here like Mr. Belvedere.

Stop being such a baby, Quinn.

You don't have a monopoly on conference expansion talk.

Right, I'm the other 50%

[UNI88]

I know that it is all about the TV sets, but there may be 1 or 2 instances upcoming where it also becomes about politics, traditions, and "you get this if you take that too".

Jeff, you are probably right that there will be 1 or 2 instances where politics and traditions play a part but it's pretty hard to predict where that might happen. For the Kansas/K State example: If by some piece of luck, Kansas is able to swing an invite to one of the super conferences due to the strength of its basketball program and maybe the # of tv sets in Kansas City I don't think they'll have enough pull to be able to take K State along with them. If that happens does the legislature demand that they go to the MWC, Conference USA or remains of Big East with K State or do they make the smart decision that having one school in a super conference is better than zero and let them grab the opportunity? Legislatures aren't exactly known for always making the rational decision so you never really know.

[BearIt]

Fits right in the Big 12's geographic footprint. Who else is the Big 12 gonna get instead?

I heard NDSU is a front runner.

[mainejeff]

I know that it is all about the TV sets, but there may be 1 or 2 instances upcoming where it also becomes about politics, traditions, and "you get this if you take that too".

Jeff, you are probably right that there will be 1 or 2 instances where politics and traditions play a part but it's pretty hard to predict where that might happen. For the Kansas/K State example: If by some piece of luck, Kansas is able to swing an invite to one of the super conferences due to the strength of its basketball program and maybe the # of tv sets in Kansas City I don't think they'll have enough pull to be able to take K State along with them. If that happens does the legislature demand that they go to the MWC, Conference USA or remains of Big East with K State or do they make the smart decision that having one school in a super conference is better than zero and let them grab the opportunity? Legislatures aren't exactly known for always making the rational decision so you never really know.

Exactly. There's no way that the Kansas legislature is getting K-State into the Big Ten under any circumstances. I don't see them forcing Kansas to decline the Big Ten invite if they are offered and join K-State in the Mountain West (I think that is where they will ultimately end up).

I didn't see Kansas ever getting an invite to the Big Ten either.......but I've read a few things here and there and I'm getting a "gut" feeling that they may end up there with Missouri (who I think will push hard for their inclusion along with maybe Nebraska and Iowa). On the Eastern front.......in a 16 team Big Ten, Rutgers and Syracuse are in and Pitt is out IMO. The wildcard (for Kansas) is Maryland. I know that money ultimately determines the fate of these things.......but I honestly just can't see Maryland alums and fans supporting this move. They probably get no say in it.......but something tells me that Maryland ends up staying in the ACC.

And lastly, obviously Notre Dame is the elephant in the room........if they decide to join the Big Ten, then Kansas is most definitely OUT!

[Sly Fox]

For what it is worth, Texas will never go to the SEC. UT considers itself a rather significant rung above the SEC academically and that's why the Pac-10 talks were so hot & heavy. Texas A&M showed they were quite as haughty but they are still under their big brother in Austin's thumb.

Who might the Big XII invite? There's a school in South Bend that might find having their own television network attractive. From a strictly economic perspective, it would be the best option for the Irish.

Wow, did this thread barrel off track.