NOT ONE FUCKING PENNY

[BDKJMU]

.

Firstly I was agreeing that due to the war well over 100K civilians have been killed...
Civilians not Iraqi military - Civilians like your mom and dad and your kids
It is estimated that is 11 X more than Sadam was on pace for even in his most brutal days of house cleaning

We've done a bad thing
The whole thing was a terrible terrible decision (period)

and your blind defense of this ridiculous war is sad and weird (at best) and also very telling...

BS.

Are you referring to hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by the US-provided, backed, trained, and armed, despot, or to the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by US air power? Just so we can keep up.

Not surprised that you would falsely accuse the brave men & women of our Air Force, Navy, Marine and Army Air of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, when in fact the majority of of Iraqi civilians killed 03'-10' have been Iraqi on Iraqi.

Not according to the Red Cross...
and not according to anybody "not in the US Military"

It doesn't matter now - because that's just what war is...

Again, you were agreeing with houndog's assertion that hundreds of thousands had been killed by US airpower and were clearly disagreeing that the majority of Iraqi civilians killed had been due to Iraqi on Iraqi violence.

[BDKJMU]

Houndog made the bogus statement that hundred of thousands of Iraqi civilians were killed by US airpower.
You agreed with the bogus statement, and added another bogus one that the red cross stated it so, and then when called out on it, failed to back it up.

1st of all, the majority of the civilian killed estimates for the war were granted over 100k, but not in the hundreds of thousands.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But that is beside the point. None of them claim that "US Airpower killed hundreds of thousands of civilians" as you and houndog claim.

If you and houndog don't think that the majority of Iraqi civilians killed during the war were due to Iraqi on Iraqi violence, and want to continue to believe you're little fantasy that US airpower killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians,then go right ahead.

You seem very defensive about all this for a guy who knows everything about how everybody got killed during the Iraq decade...

Firstly I was agreeing that due to the war well over 100K civilians have been killed...
Civilians not Iraqi military - Civilians like your mom and dad and your kids
It is estimated that is 11 X more than Sadam was on pace for even in his most brutal days of house cleaning

We've done a bad thing
The whole thing was a terrible terrible decision (period)

and your blind defense of this ridiculous war is sad and weird (at best) and also very telling...

Using 100-150k civilians killed in 7 years would = roughly about 15-20k civilians killed a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

During Saddam's 24 year reign from 1979-2003 estimates on civilians killed range from 150k-340k, an avg of about 6-14k per year. Thats a ratio from about 1 to 1 to 3 to 1, no where remotely close to 11 to 1.
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chizzang]

Using 100-150k civilians killed in 7 years would = roughly about 15-20k civilians killed a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

During Saddam's 24 year reign from 1979-2003 estimates on civilians killed range from 150k-340k, an avg of about 6-14k per year. Thats a ratio from about 1 to 1 to 3 to 1, no where remotely close to 11 to 1.
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

[D1B]

Hey BDSHITFORBRAINS, George W = born again Christian.

[kalm]

Using 100-150k civilians killed in 7 years would = roughly about 15-20k civilians killed a year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

During Saddam's 24 year reign from 1979-2003 estimates on civilians killed range from 150k-340k, an avg of about 6-14k per year. Thats a ratio from about 1 to 1 to 3 to 1, no where remotely close to 11 to 1.
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

Maybe bdk's numbers from 1979-2003 also included civilian deaths from the Iraq-Iran war?

Just tryin to help.

[Chizzang]

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

Maybe bdk's numbers from 1979-2003 also included civilian deaths from the Iraq-Iran war?

Just tryin to help.

Indeed they do,
They include every military endeavor during Saddam's Reign - but that's not what this is about It's about how many people Saddam "had killed" and that number is VERY different than the number he's throwing around from his own site

But really it's a - who cares argument...

As was already mentioned:
Bush can't even go to Europe - he had to cancel his trip to Switzerland for fear of being tried in court as a War criminal, the world is on to his bullsh!t war... hell the CIA even said there was no reason to go to war

and that's what this is ultimately about = Why start this war..?
That's the real War Question that nobody seems to be able to answer

[houndawg]

Are you referring to hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by the US-provided, backed, trained, and armed, despot, or to the hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by US air power? Just so we can keep up.

Not surprised that you would falsely accuse the brave men & women of our Air Force, Navy, Marine and Army Air of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, when in fact the majority of of Iraqi civilians killed 03'-10' have been Iraqi on Iraqi.

Perhaps you'd like to share with us which source you believe provides the correct figure? After you recover from the spanking Cleets administered, of course.

[Appaholic]

Not surprised that you would falsely accuse the brave men & women of our Air Force, Navy, Marine and Army Air of killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, when in fact the majority of of Iraqi civilians killed 03'-10' have been Iraqi on Iraqi.

Perhaps you'd like to share with us which source you believe provides the correct figure? After you recover from the spanking Cleets administered, of course.

[Wedgebuster]

Could we please move this thread to another forum so that it can be more widely viewed?

Mods, do we have a "Hysterical Forum" or at least an entertainment/general comedy section??

[houndawg]

Could we please move this thread to another forum so that it can be more widely viewed?

Mods, do we have a "Hysterical Forum" or at least an entertainment/general comedy section??

It's calmer since Cleets spanked BDKJMU and sent him to his room without supper.

[BDKJMU]

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

The only area where my reading comprehension failed was I greatly undercounted the # of Iraqis killed during Sadam's reign as did you.

You left off the 150-340k Iraqis killed during the Iran-Iraq war.
"Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War."

Also you left off the 100k Kurds
"Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared"."

Add on the 60-150k dissidents and Shia:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000."
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thats 310k to 590k killed under Sadam in 24 years in power, an avg of about about 13k-25k killed per year.

Using the civilian casualty figures of the AP, Wiki Leaks Classified Iraqi War Logs, Iraq Body Count Project, and Iraq Family Health Survey, you have from under 100k to about 150k.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Divide that by the 7 years covered and that comes out to a range of about 14k-22k per year killed during the war, which is about the same as when Sadam was in power.

Besides that the fact that the overwhelming majority of those civilians killed were Iraqi on Iraqi (mainly Sunni vs Shia) a large chunk of the rest weren't "innocent" civilans, but were insurgents taking up arms against coalition forces.

But go ahead and believe that our military killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. I don't care.

Oh, and as far as Bush Sr being to blame for the claim of international trade sanctions killing 500k Iraqi children, the sanctions were started by the UN in Aug 1990 after Sadam invaded Kuwait. They continued with the backing of the Clinton admin 93'-01', including the disasterous food for oil program was started 05'. Can't lay all the blame on Bush Sr for that

[D1B]

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

The only area where my reading comprehension failed was I greatly undercounted the # of Iraqis killed during Sadam's reign as did you.

You left off the 150-340k Iraqis killed during the Iran-Iraq war.
"Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War."

Also you left off the 100k Kurds
"Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared"."

Add on the 60-150k dissidents and Shia:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000."
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thats 310k to 590k killed under Sadam in 24 years in power, an avg of about about 13k-25k killed per year.

Using the civilian casualty figures of the AP, Wiki Leaks Classified Iraqi War Logs, Iraq Body Count Project, and Iraq Family Health Survey, you have from under 100k to about 150k.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Divide that by the 7 years covered and that comes out to a range of about 14k-22k per year killed during the war, which is about the same as when Sadam was in power.

Besides that the fact that the overwhelming majority of those civilians killed were Iraqi on Iraqi (mainly Sunni vs Shia) a large chunk of the rest weren't "innocent" civilans, but were insurgents taking up arms against coalition forces.

But go ahead and believe that our military killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. I don't care.

Yeah, just hang em up big guy. You'll pass Cleets' penny loafer in a couple days. One day if you use Ex-Lax.





ahhh....live to fight another day....

[BDKJMU]

Maybe bdk's numbers from 1979-2003 also included civilian deaths from the Iraq-Iran war?

Just tryin to help.

No, the 1st time I only included those 150-340k Iraqis killed during the Iran-Iraq wars. I failed to include the 100 Kurds killed or disappeared and the 60-150 Shia and dissidents killed.

[houndawg]

Your reading comprehension is embarrassing... seriously
And thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly

Lets' use your website for the Bush numbers...
"by January 2008, between 104,000 and 223,000 violent deaths occurred in Iraq between March 2003 and June 2006."

Also from your site: Just for kicks
"On 6 October the CIA's Iraq Survey Group finally confirms that there were no weapons on mass destruction in Iraq prior to the March 2003 invasion."

Again thanks for that website it reinforces my argument greatly
So if you actually read that page you'll notice that in the 25 years under Saddam it says this:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000" - So if we take the middle say 105K killed divided by his 25 years = 4,200 a year vs. 25K killed a year during our war

From Bush Senior we have this little statistic (Nice)
"Approximately 500,000 Iraqi children dead because of international trade sanctions introduced following the Gulf War." That's from your website...

Oh and by the way Bush canceled his recent trip to Switzerland because if he was apprehended he would be tried for War Crimes in 8 different countries in Europe... Just like Saddam (they have a lot in common) Ron Paul thinks they sure do - He compares them all the time and has submitted evidence to the Senate that Bush is a War Criminal

You certainly have an opinion and I respect that...
but a whole bunch of people have a VERY different opinion

The only area where my reading comprehension failed was I greatly undercounted the # of Iraqis killed during Sadam's reign as did you.

You left off the 150-340k Iraqis killed during the Iran-Iraq war.
"Approaching two million, including between 150,000 and 340,000 Iraqi and between 450,000 and 730,000 Iranian combatants killed during the Iran-Iraq War."

Also you left off the 100k Kurds
"Over 100,000 Kurds killed or "disappeared"."

Add on the 60-150k dissidents and Shia:
"No reliable figures for the number of Iraqi dissidents and Shia Muslims killed during Saddam's reign, though estimates put the figure between 60,000 and 150,000."
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thats 310k to 590k killed under Sadam in 24 years in power, an avg of about about 13k-25k killed per year.

Using the civilian casualty figures of the AP, Wiki Leaks Classified Iraqi War Logs, Iraq Body Count Project, and Iraq Family Health Survey, you have from under 100k to about 150k.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Divide that by the 7 years covered and that comes out to a range of about 14k-22k per year killed during the war, which is about the same as when Sadam was in power.

Besides that the fact that the overwhelming majority of those civilians killed were Iraqi on Iraqi (mainly Sunni vs Shia) a large chunk of the rest weren't "innocent" civilans, but were insurgents taking up arms against coalition forces.

But go ahead and believe that our military killed tens of thousands of innocent civilians. I don't care.

Oh, and as far as Bush Sr being to blame for the claim of international trade sanctions killing 500k Iraqi children, the sanctions were started by the UN in Aug 1990 after Sadam invaded Kuwait. They continued with the backing of the Clinton admin 93'-01', including the disasterous food for oil program was started 05'. Can't lay all the blame on Bush Sr for that

Nobody said they did it on purpose, although there are some guys in Leavenworth for exactly that.

[Wedgebuster]

"God" save this thread!!

[Chizzang]

"God" save this thread!!

I know I've enjoyed the hell out of it....

[Wedgebuster]

"God" save this thread!!

I know I've enjoyed the hell out of it....

[Cap'n Cat]

of US tax dollars should be headed anywhere near Japland.

If people want to donate out of the kindness of their hearts and souls, great, go for it if it helps you get to sleep at night

In this age of the federal deficit and buget being what it is, I don't want to hear about one single fucking penny of public dollars flowing into the 3rd largest economy.

if they were some sort of 3rd world craphole, the case could be made for aid on a humanitarian basis, but this is JAPLAND we're talking about here. The 3rd largest economy on the planet. They would be more than happy to stab us in the back and OWN us if they could.

not one single penny. period.

Dayum, bwah!!!!!!!