Charlotte declines full CAA membership, wants football-only

[89Hen]

I guess we have a communication breakdown. Here's what I've read:

FSA: Any CAA school would jump at an invite to the A10.

89: I don't think you can say that with certainty. The A10 is only marginally better at bball, which is where it's supposed to hold the upper hand.

FSA: The A10 is more than bball.

89: When you factor in all sports, the A10 is actually inferior. I don't think you can say a team would jump at the offer.

FSA: It's a fact that any CAA school would jump at the offer.

you are only talking sports A10 has academic standards...

That doesn't make it the better conf over it's what 30, 40, 50 years of existence...

It also doesn't give it a better TV contract. If it continues for a longer period of time then sure a better contract will come....

A10 getting their conf tourney on CBS College and title game on ESPN w/ games thoughout the season. CAA gets a few games/ and only a title game on ESPN, less exposure/money. That's why they'd leave for the A10 if offered

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says it's not only sports, then you list a bunch of sports related things. If you want to talk academics, we can do that too.

Forbes
48 College of William and Mary
146 University of Richmond
196 Xavier University
217 University of Delaware
234 James Madison University

[∞∞∞]

We've endlessly discussed "ODU to A-10" on our boards. Nearly all our fans oppose it. The only conference our fans want is the CAA, CUSA, or a BCS conference (obviously not happening anytime soon).

As for VCU, I'd say it's like an 80/20 result in favor of staying in the CAA (total guess based on what I read at vcuramnation). Being a basketball school they do have more fans that are in favor of it, but not much.

[Fresno St. Alum]

you are only talking sports A10 has academic standards...

That doesn't make it the better conf over it's what 30, 40, 50 years of existence...

It also doesn't give it a better TV contract. If it continues for a longer period of time then sure a better contract will come....

A10 getting their conf tourney on CBS College and title game on ESPN w/ games thoughout the season. CAA gets a few games/ and only a title game on ESPN, less exposure/money. That's why they'd leave for the A10 if offered

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says it's not only sports, then you list a bunch of sports related things. If you want to talk academics, we can do that too.

Forbes
48 College of William and Mary
146 University of Richmond
196 Xavier University
217 University of Delaware
234 James Madison University

Everything matters. Money matters the most. Does the CAA pay more than A10? does CAA have a contract with CBS Coll. like A10? No. Did Richmond leave the CAA for the A10? Yes. Did Boise go to the PAC12? They're Better than Colorado at football? But they don't meet academics. Great forbes ranks, they post that on a BE board, then someone finds another set or 2 of ranks that show different. W&M has never been to the tourney so that might counter some of their academic goodness. Weigh it all. But most of all weight who gets more money.

[Fresno St. Alum]

We've endlessly discussed "ODU to A-10" on our boards. Nearly all our fans oppose it. The only conference our fans want is the CAA, CUSA, or a BCS conference (obviously not happening anytime soon).

As for VCU, I'd say it's like an 80/20 result in favor of staying in the CAA (total guess based on what I read at vcuramnation). Being a basketball school they do have more fans that are in favor of it, but not much.

You know even if all of you oppose it it doesn't mean a thing. It's up to the Prez. not you, not the coaches, not the AD.

[89Hen]

Everything matters. Money matters the most. Does the CAA pay more than A10? does CAA have a contract with CBS Coll. like A10? No. Did Richmond leave the CAA for the A10?

We don't know what the money is. I can't find this lucrative TV deal the A10 inked.

Richmond left the CAA for the A10 when the CAA wasn't anything like what it is today. You keep skipping my premise that if UR were in the CAA TODAY, would they leave? There's NOT a clear answer, no matter what your OPINION tells you.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Everything matters. Money matters the most. Does the CAA pay more than A10? does CAA have a contract with CBS Coll. like A10? No. Did Richmond leave the CAA for the A10?

We don't know what the money is. I can't find this lucrative TV deal the A10 inked.

Richmond left the CAA for the A10 when the CAA wasn't anything like what it is today. You keep skipping my premise that if UR were in the CAA TODAY, would they leave? There's NOT a clear answer, no matter what your OPINION tells you.

But we do know there are more A10 games on ESPN than CAA, we do Know that the A10 has a contract with CBS Coll. and CAA doesn't. So two major dist sports entities are putting more money in the pockets of the A10. Neither are on Vs. what about comcast sports? I don't know the deal there.

[∞∞∞]

You know even if all of you oppose it it doesn't mean a thing. It's up to the Prez. not you, not the coaches, not the AD.

At ODU, the decision comes down to the Board of Trustees unless a decision has to be made quickly (24-48 hours), which it then becomes a decision of both the President and the AD. I imagine if an offer was on the table that didn't need a quick decision, there will be open door meetings with donors, fans, and other supporters of ODU to hear what they have to say. It's been like that for every major decision at ODU, from the addition of football to the construction of dorms to raising tuition to etc.

[Fresno St. Alum]

If the Prez and the AD don't agree, it's the Prez and the board's call is it not?

I found this from 2008 for payouts

NCAA Sources
Big Ten (31,215,888)
Big East (29,949,918)
ACC (29,422,225)
Southeastern (27,662,076)
Big XII (26,381,052)
Pac Ten (25,390,456)
CUSA (18,272,537)
Mid American (12,894,716)
Mountain West (12,448,714)
Atlantic 10 (11,416,499)
Western Athletic (10,434,348)
Colonial (9,884,737)
Missouri Valley (9,531,408)
Sun Belt (9,397,222)
Horizon (6,219,609)

Total Revenue
Big Ten (280,628,952)
Southeastern (272,116,806)
Big XII (139,306,532)
ACC (126,608,527)
Pac Ten (103,053,427)
Big East (93,149,910)
Mountain West (48,022,000)
CUSA (36,081,537)
Mid American (21,279,716)
Western Athletic (19,674,348)
Atlantic 10 (12,416,499)
Sun Belt (11,912,222)
Colonial (10,109,737)
Missouri Valley (9,756,408)
Horizon (6,219,609)

plus some A10 schools get some of the total CAA rev since they play CAA fb.

I know since this was posted the MWC now has a 120 Mill deal for 10 years w/ Vs,CBSC,MTN.

[∞∞∞]

If the Prez and the AD don't agree, it's the Prez and the board's call is it not?

I'll need to re-dig up the pdf from ODU's website, but I'll get back to you on that.

[Fresno St. Alum]

If the Prez and the AD don't agree, it's the Prez and the board's call is it not?

I'll need to re-dig up the pdf from ODU's website, but I'll get back to you on that.

Don't worry about looking. I don't know any school where the AD has more say than the Prez. If they disagree. Then they probably go to the board and state their cases for both sides. Usually they would be on the same page since the Prez is the boss of the AD.

[∞∞∞]

I'll need to re-dig up the pdf from ODU's website, but I'll get back to you on that.

Don't worry about looking. I don't know any school where the AD has more say than the Prez. If they disagree. Then they probably go to the board and state their cases for both sides. Usually they would be on the same page since the Prez is the boss of the AD.

I found it and you're right. The President has the last decision if there's a disagreement or if the AD is unavailable.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Don't worry about looking. I don't know any school where the AD has more say than the Prez. If they disagree. Then they probably go to the board and state their cases for both sides. Usually they would be on the same page since the Prez is the boss of the AD.

I found it and you're right. The President has the last decision if there's a disagreement or if the AD is unavailable.

It's a boss employee thing. Prez hired the AD, if the Prez is hell bent on going, the AD's opinion will go in 1 ear and out the other. Then Only the board could stop him but I don't know if a board has ever stopped a school from switching conf. or Div. I'm going over my head because I can't recall every move over the years.

[∞∞∞]

I found it and you're right. The President has the last decision if there's a disagreement or if the AD is unavailable.

It's a boss employee thing. Prez hired the AD, if the Prez is hell bent on going, the AD's opinion will go in 1 ear and out the other. Then Only the board could stop him but I don't know if a board has ever stopped a school from switching conf. or Div. I'm going over my head because I can't recall every move over the years.

I'm sure if both disagree, this is exactly how the conversation would go:

Prez: "I want us to move to this new conference."
AD: "No, this is a bad move and I completely disagree."
Prez: "We need to make a decision fast."
AD: "I can't support this. Sorry."
Prez: "There's gonna be a nice little pay raise if you go along with my decision in public."
[pause]
AD: "I completely support your decision."
Prez:

[Fresno St. Alum]

It's a boss employee thing. Prez hired the AD, if the Prez is hell bent on going, the AD's opinion will go in 1 ear and out the other. Then Only the board could stop him but I don't know if a board has ever stopped a school from switching conf. or Div. I'm going over my head because I can't recall every move over the years.

I'm sure if both disagree, this is exactly how the conversation would go:

Prez: "I want us to move to this new conference."
AD: "No, this is a bad move and I completely disagree."
Prez: "We need to make a decision fast."
AD: "I can't support this. Sorry."
Prez: "There's gonna be a nice little pay raise if you go along with my decision in public."
[pause]
AD: "I completely support your decision."
Prez:

Pretty much. The AD at UN-Omaha was behind the move to D-I and dropping football. It was his plan, he got the prez on board. The coaches were against it, obviously They are awaiting final approval from the UN board, if they haven't been approved already. My guess would be most ADs would be pushing for the "better" conf. they probably have to get the Prez on board more times than the other way. Just a guess though.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Another thing I thought about. Temple has turned down full membership in the MAC an FBS conf so they could keep other sports in the A10. If the MAC is scared to say all or nothing with Temple and UMass, they must know there's something there in the A10 that will keep them from leaving unless a CUSA or better invite comes. Charlotte also said no to a full CAA invite. There's a reason why all of these things fall into place like this. Probably many reason none of us will ever know about.

Richmond left for the A10 in 2001, Navy left for the PL in 1991, American left for the PL in 2001, ECU left for CUSA in 2001.

The PL has never been a better bball league even when CAA was kinda down, but those 2 left to be with like academic schools? ECU was easy move.

[dbackjon]

Another thing I thought about. Temple has turned down full membership in the MAC an FBS conf so they could keep other sports in the A10. If the MAC is scared to say all or nothing with Temple and UMass, they must know there's something there in the A10 that will keep them from leaving unless a CUSA or better invite comes. Charlotte also said no to a full CAA invite. There's a reason why all of these things fall into place like this. Probably many reason none of us will ever know about.

Richmond left for the A10 in 2001, Navy left for the PL in 1991, American left for the PL in 2001, ECU left for CUSA in 2001.

The PL has never been a better bball league even when CAA was kinda down, but those 2 left to be with like academic schools? ECU was easy move.

2001 vs 2011 is ancient history. You know that FSA.

1991 is REALLY ancient history.

[Fresno St. Alum]

Another thing I thought about. Temple has turned down full membership in the MAC an FBS conf so they could keep other sports in the A10. If the MAC is scared to say all or nothing with Temple and UMass, they must know there's something there in the A10 that will keep them from leaving unless a CUSA or better invite comes. Charlotte also said no to a full CAA invite. There's a reason why all of these things fall into place like this. Probably many reason none of us will ever know about.

Richmond left for the A10 in 2001, Navy left for the PL in 1991, American left for the PL in 2001, ECU left for CUSA in 2001.

The PL has never been a better bball league even when CAA was kinda down, but those 2 left to be with like academic schools? ECU was easy move.

2001 vs 2011 is ancient history. You know that FSA.

1991 is REALLY ancient history.

the money thing you over looked was 2008. Are we gonna pretend that doesn't exist. I asked Quinn to find the most updated #s. Also is there anything to refute my point? No one has went the other way. Only Richmond to the A10. Only Charlotte declining, if they were the same why would Charlotte turn down an invite unless it was thought of as a step down and lesser money over having a home for all sports. Why did Temple turn down a full invite to the MAC, there could have been a risk of losing fb only membership, but didn't.

[collegesportsinfo]

Homer talk. I am sure. I'm not defending Charlotte or any other A10 school. just stating the conf ladder "rules". I don't have a dog in the fight and I follow conf. movement.

Not sure if ODU or VCU would leave. And mid-major confernce rankings are fluid. A-10 may historically better, but the CAA is catching up and may well pass them.














(good lord, can't beleive I am defending the CAA)...

There is never going to be a dispute that any conference has the ability to pass another conference over time. The key is momentum and progressing each season. Mason made the Final 4 and it's not like the CAA got even a single at large bid every year since them. They've had a total of 3 at-large bids since that Mason run while the A10 has had 10 at-large bids. Bids = money and of course wins = money.

This year is the all-time high for the Colonial Athletic conference with 3 bids. Note that the success in the games is great for those teams (and creates league revenue via shares) but it has to carry over to be beneficial. There have been plenty of other conferences outside the Big 6 that have had 3 bids in a given year...but if they don't get 3 bids every year, it's a step back from momentum. We've seen conferences with good representation before like the MVC and Big West, and the same optimism is there "they're on the cusp of joining the top conferences". But it hasn't happened for them. Nor the Horizon despite Butlers back to back success. MWC is taking a step back with Utah and BYu leaving too.

A10 has been steady with 18 at-large bids over the past 10 years. For argument sake, the CAA has had 5. Since the 2006 GMason run, A10 has had 10 at-large bids, CAA has had 3 at-large bids. I'm all for optimism, so indeed jon, the CAA could pass the A10. And the Horizon can pass the MWC, and the Big Sky could pass the Summit

[collegesportsinfo]

Homer talk. I am sure. I'm not defending Charlotte or any other A10 school. just stating the conf ladder "rules"

Opinion talk. The A10 is not the ACC. It's not the Big East. It's not the C-USA. The A10 doesn't have football. It's big draw is basketball. Such a gap.

Sagarin
9 ATLANTIC 10 = 75.29
10 COLONIAL = 74.92

RPI
9 Atlantic 10
10 Colonial Athletic

Might be best to include a larger sample pool of 5 years:

RPI:
2011: A10 = 9, CAA = 10
2010: A10 = 7, CAA = 12
2009: A10 = 8, CAA = 14
2008: A10 = 7, CAA = 13
2007: A10 = 10, CAA = 13


Like I said, I'm all for optimism, and certainly 5 years from now things could change. But 5 years ago, George Mason made it to the Final Four and so many of the same posts were made about the CAA vs the A10. Hell, it's been going on for a decade. But since that Mason final 4, the A10 has been no less than 1 spot above the CAA in RPI and no greater than 6 spots above them. The A10 has had 10 at-large bids, while the CAA has had 3. The CAA, in fact, has had less at-large bids than a number of other conference with less than the A10. Yet, due to geography, it seems the CAA fans like to look at the A10 as a goal. But like you said jon, it's fluid. Rather than focus on the A10, CAA fans should just be happy with what they have. And while every number and every stat might say that A10 is outperforming the CAA, so be it. The ACC outperforms the A10, but that doesn't stop me for enjoying the A10 product.

[Fresno St. Alum]

deleted, Quinn, you go in scrabble

[Fresno St. Alum]

Not sure if ODU or VCU would leave. And mid-major confernce rankings are fluid. A-10 may historically better, but the CAA is catching up and may well pass them.













(good lord, can't beleive I am defending the CAA)...

There is never going to be a dispute that any conference has the ability to pass another conference over time. The key is momentum and progressing each season. Mason made the Final 4 and it's not like the CAA got even a single at large bid every year since them. They've had a total of 3 at-large bids since that Mason run while the A10 has had 10 at-large bids. Bids = money and of course wins = money.

This year is the all-time high for the Colonial Athletic conference with 3 bids. Note that the success in the games is great for those teams (and creates league revenue via shares) but it has to carry over to be beneficial. There have been plenty of other conferences outside the Big 6 that have had 3 bids in a given year...but if they don't get 3 bids every year, it's a step back from momentum. We've seen conferences with good representation before like the MVC and Big West, and the same optimism is there "they're on the cusp of joining the top conferences". But it hasn't happened for them. Nor the Horizon despite Butlers back to back success. MWC is taking a step back with Utah and BYu leaving too.

A10 has been steady with 18 at-large bids over the past 10 years. For argument sake, the CAA has had 5. Since the 2006 GMason run, A10 has had 10 at-large bids, CAA has had 3 at-large bids. I'm all for optimism, so indeed jon, the CAA could pass the A10. And the Horizon can pass the MWC, and the Big Sky could pass the Summit

I remember that 1 year the Horizon got, 3 that was crazy.

Another thing The A10 is 7th all time in NCAA bids w/ 161, CAA is 16th with 58.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men%2 ... conference" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PS I like the guy that takes care of this wiki page.

[dbackjon]

UMass hasn't been to teh NCAA's since 1998? wow

[Fresno St. Alum]

UMass hasn't been to teh NCAA's since 1998? wow

That's longer than NAU! If you can't win a fair fight kick him in the nuts

[dbackjon]

Plus that table is misleading. For example, it credits the Big East with 42 tourney bids from Louisville, even though Louisville has only been in the Big East since 2005.

[dbackjon]

UMass hasn't been to teh NCAA's since 1998? wow

That's longer than NAU! If you can't win a fair fight kick him in the nuts

I might add that the Summit only has 11 bids. Clearly, Big Sky is 4 times better than the Summit