CEO Pay Up 27% While Worker Pay Stalls...

[blueballs]

Chizzie pretty much nailed it, everybody lined up on two sides... one defending the CEO's as achievers and the other flush with wealth envy.

What almost everybody- especially the media- has failed to consider is that there are two basic types of companies- public and private.

In a public corporation the job of the CEO is to maximize shareholder value. Maximizing shareholder value has everything to do with maximizing profit through lowering costs of goods sold- which includes labor- and making the company more efficient and desirable to the public. If he is successful he will be paid accordingly.

In the case of a private corporation more times than not the CEO has a substantial ownership interest and in that case the CEO's job is to maximize the income to the owners- of which the CEO often is.

Employees are only useful as they allow the CEO to achieve the two objectives outlined above. Period. In my case I am half owner of a mortgage company. My job isn't to make my employees rich. Their job is to make me rich and enrich themselves through the incentive based employment parameters I have given them- although the federal reserve is trying their best to change that.

[AZGrizFan]

There is no solution...
If I'm a CEO and I get to write my own contract I'd do the same damn thing
on the other side - if you create a program designed around helping the honest person build from the bottom - the lazy will corrupt it and break it down...

The poor in America are getting more and more effective at doing less and extracting more
While the Elite Wealthy are doing the same thing - and what's so funny is how both sides (behaving identically) hate each other with a passion...

I guess we really are what we hate

Here's my solution: Re-arrange the deck chairs on the titanic I want a great view while it lasts

Politics is the subtle art of obtaining rich peoples' money and poor peoples' votes.

And democrats perform this magical feat by buying poor people's votes with rich people's money.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Politics is the subtle art of obtaining rich peoples' money and poor peoples' votes.

And democrats perform this magical feat by buying poor people's votes with rich people's money.

and republicans do it by convincing poor whites that it's minorities who are keeping them poor instead of the CEO's...

[native]

And democrats perform this magical feat by buying poor people's votes with rich people's money.

and republicans do it by convincing poor whites that it's minorities who are keeping them poor instead of the CEO's...

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

[kalm]

and republicans do it by convincing poor whites that it's minorities who are keeping them poor instead of the CEO's...

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

Yeah! Hear that Soros and Buffett?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

and republicans do it by convincing poor whites that it's minorities who are keeping them poor instead of the CEO's...

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

wow... just... wow.

[native]

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

wow... just... wow.

There is a stronger middle class in Texas and other right-to-work, pro-business, low-tax states than in either New York or California, which are run by high-tax pro-union liberal elites. No matter how strongly we "feel," the historical fact is that "progressive" nostrums cause more socio-economic problems than they cure.

I am not knocking your sincerity, and I enjoy the intellectual tools you and others bring to the table. But it is obvious that you, kalm, maybe cleets and some others completey buy into the liberale lite "progressive" version of "truth" that I just as obviously eschew.

You imply with your "just ... wow" remark that you think I am out of touch with reality. But I share the same grip on middle class reality common outside the beltway that is lost on "progressives." How many juries have elected you foreman? How many non-political professional and non-profit associations have elected you president? These are all non-partisan, middle-class institutions whose members have consistently entrusted me with positions of responsibility over the past 30 years because we share values and ideals. What do you think you know that 65% of America and 85% of fly-over America can't seem to understand in your eyes?

[kalm]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks. CEO's of really big companies, the kind that outsource jobs or receive bailouts or next to zero interest loans from the FED need to be compensated well. Not everyone has the neccessary lack of conscientiousness to steal from the public like that. Shrewd, multibillion $ business sense is the new sociopathy.

[native]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks. CEO's of really big companies, the kind that outsource jobs or receive bailouts or next to zero interest loans from the FED need to be compensated well. Not everyone has the neccessary lack of conscientiousness to steal from the public like that. Shrewd, multibillion $ business sense is the new sociopathy.

Unions have destroyed so many industries and jobs in the US that we can't manufacture many things anymore. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford had the right ideas and the freedom to make them come alive, not only for themselves but for the well paid workers they employed.

[kalm]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks. CEO's of really big companies, the kind that outsource jobs or receive bailouts or next to zero interest loans from the FED need to be compensated well. Not everyone has the neccessary lack of conscientiousness to steal from the public like that. Shrewd, multibillion $ business sense is the new sociopathy.

Unions have destroyed so many industries and jobs in the US that we can't manufacture many things anymore. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford had the right ideas and the freedom to make them come alive, not only for themselves but for the well paid workers they employed.

Bull shit. We can manufacture anything we'd like as long as we return to some of the principles that gave rise to the strongest middle class the world has ever seen. But I'm not holding my breath.

[native]

Unions have destroyed so many industries and jobs in the US that we can't manufacture many things anymore. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford had the right ideas and the freedom to make them come alive, not only for themselves but for the well paid workers they employed.

Bull ****. We can manufacture anything we'd like as long as we return to some of the principles that gave rise to the strongest middle class the world has ever seen. But I'm not holding my breath.

Your conclusion is correct! The problem is that you do not know what those principles might be.

Here are some clues:
Right to work
Much lower taxes and much simpler tax structure
Right-sized military: strong national defense and freedom of the seas, NOT empire
Restoration of property rights to equality with the Bill of Rights
MUCH less government including privatization of most social programs
(No more unearned middle class entitlements - help only those who CANNOT help themselves)
Strong public safety, work place safety and corporate accounting regulation - did you see this one, kalm?
Fair trade (my limited definition, not your complicated progressive definition)
Empowering parents and students - NOT unions - to drive educational priorities
Eliminate subsidies and government meddling in markets in favor of investment in long range research
Stop funding the UN in favor of a commonwealth of free market democracies who play by our rules
FAST TRACK nuclear, oil, natural gas, coal and oil shale research and permits

[kalm]

Bull ****. We can manufacture anything we'd like as long as we return to some of the principles that gave rise to the strongest middle class the world has ever seen. But I'm not holding my breath.

Your conclusion is correct! The problem is that you do not know what those principles might be.

Utilize the power of our markets, natural resources, and innovation to leverage competitive trade advantages. I don't think you and I are really that far apart on this one. Even Henry Ford realized that the wages he payed his employees would increase demand for his own products.

[native]

Your conclusion is correct! The problem is that you do not know what those principles might be.

Utilize the power of our markets, natural resources, and innovation to leverage competitive trade advantages. I don't think you and I are really that far apart on this one. Even Henry Ford realized that the wages he payed his employees would increase demand for his own products.

Absolutely! We don't even need to negotiate the advantages you list. We simply need to get out of the disadvantageous trade agreements and hold firm.

[kalm]

Utilize the power of our markets, natural resources, and innovation to leverage competitive trade advantages. I don't think you and I are really that far apart on this one. Even Henry Ford realized that the wages he payed his employees would increase demand for his own products.

Absolutely! We don't even need to negotiate the advantages you list. We simply need to get out of the disadvantageous trade agreements and hold firm.

Of course the problem with this is that too many multinationals benefit from the current arrangement and they have virtually unlimited ability to finance campaigns maintain the status quo.

[JohnStOnge]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks.

You know, CEOs do work. They are "working folks."

Also, the article didn't say those you are calling "working folks" lost ground. It said CEOs gained more ground for 2010 than your "working folks" did. And it says they CEOs still, as measured by the median, don't make as much as they made in 2007.

Not that it matters anyway. Any company should be free to decide how much it should pay a person who is responsible for managing the entire company and how much it should pay for somebody standing on an assembly line putting a peg in a hole.

[native]

...

...Yeah! Hear that Soros and Buffett?

Buffet I respect the way I respect a trusted and admired colleague with whom I may disagree.

Soros I respect the way I respect a dangerous, powerful and hated enemy.

[native]

Absolutely! We don't even need to negotiate the advantages you list. We simply need to get out of the disadvantageous trade agreements and hold firm.

Of course the problem with this is that too many multinationals benefit from the current arrangement and they have virtually unlimited ability to finance campaigns maintain the status quo.

You make a great point, kalm, but progressive nostrums are often worse than the disease itself.

[kalm]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks.

You know, CEOs do work. They are "working folks."

Also, the article didn't say those you are calling "working folks" lost ground. It said CEOs gained more ground for 2010 than your "working folks" did. And it says they CEOs still, as measured by the median, don't make as much as they made in 2007.

Not that it matters anyway. Any company should be free to decide how much it should pay a person who is responsible for managing the entire company and how much it should pay for somebody standing on an assembly line putting a peg in a hole.

Thank you for the corrections Johh. They were extremely helpful. And yes, companies should have the right determine their own employee compensation, free of government intervention or taxation. As long as said companies in no way benefit from government intervention or taxation.

[kalm]

Of course the problem with this is that too many multinationals benefit from the current arrangement and they have virtually unlimited ability to finance campaigns maintain the status quo.

You make a great point, kalm, but progressive nostrums are often worse than the disease itself.

Is "progressive nostrum" the latest conk meme.

[native]

You make a great point, kalm, but progressive nostrums are often worse than the disease itself.

Is "progressive nostrum" the latest conk meme.

Do you like it, or would you prefer another?

[Grizalltheway]

Turns out, US workers were making too much money and really couldn't afford the middle class lifestyle. So this is a neccessary contracdtion back to a lower standard of living for working folks. CEO's of really big companies, the kind that outsource jobs or receive bailouts or next to zero interest loans from the FED need to be compensated well. Not everyone has the neccessary lack of conscientiousness to steal from the public like that. Shrewd, multibillion $ business sense is the new sociopathy.

Unions have destroyed so many industries and jobs in the US that we can't manufacture many things anymore. Thomas Edison and Henry Ford had the right ideas and the freedom to make them come alive, not only for themselves but for the well paid workers they employed.

Hey genius, why don't you look into how unions have destroyed Germany's manufacturing sector?

[AZGrizFan]

Your conclusion is correct! The problem is that you do not know what those principles might be.

Utilize the power of our markets, natural resources, and innovation to leverage competitive trade advantages. I don't think you and I are really that far apart on this one. Even Henry Ford realized that the wages he payed his employees would increase demand for his own products.

As long as China can produce the same product paying labor $5/day, and Americans say out of one side of their mouth they want fair wages but out of the other side of their mouth they flock to Walmart to buy billions upon billions of dollars of Chinese crap, your theory holds no water. Americans are the biggest bunch of hypocrites in the world, and union employees are the poster child.

[Baldy]

and republicans do it by convincing poor whites that it's minorities who are keeping them poor instead of the CEO's...

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

...and the government.

[JohnStOnge]

They were extremely helpful. And yes, companies should have the right determine their own employee compensation, free of government intervention or taxation. As long as said companies in no way benefit from government intervention or taxation.

I didn't say they should be free of taxation; though if it were up to me we'd eliminate the income tax approach including corporate income taxes. Otherwise, if it were up to me Federal government would not be intervening to help businesses. Of course if it were up to me government would also not be administering programs such as Medicaid, Food Stamps, etc. One reason for my outlook in that regard, among many others, is that when government spends money to help an entity people can then make the argument that government has a right to control the entity's behavior.

Having said that, I doubt that the median CEO salary would change much if CEOs of corporations that benefited from high profile loan programs such as TARP and the automaker bailout were excluded from the calculation. I think that even if corporations involved in such things had their CEOs working for free we'd still be seeing the median CEO pay up by somewhere close to that 27% number between 2009 and 2010.

[blueballs]

It's not the CEOs and its not minorities that keep so many Americans poor. It is rich white liberal elites.

...and the government.

... and popular culture and the erosion of the nuclear family, church, a true wrok ethic, and personal accountability.

America is flush with opportunity. A person can get a free public education, scholarship money to attend college, and there are plenty of jobs/opportunities available for those who wish to dedicate themselves wholly to success. Those jobs may be 100% commission based or self employment but the opportuity is there for just about every American.

The problem is most Americans aren't willing to really pay the price for success. Entrepreneurialship, hard work, and personal accountability are still traits of the successful but not so much a trait of the American workforce while a sense of entitlement is. I see way too many folks who spend more time watching Snooki (did I spell it right?) and American Idol than making the real sacrifices to "get ahead," but then they are the first to step up and blame and condemn the successful and ask the government to redistribute the wealth.