Chasing History: Derek Sanderson Jeter

[AZGrizFan]

The Jeter is overrated thing is pretty thin.

We're talking about the third youngest guy ever to 3,000 hits. This guy was a hitting machine in his prime, good for 200 hits a year. If you've watched the Yankees every day over the years, the image of Jeter going with a pitch perfectly and striking a single (to any field, depending on pitch location) is locked into your mind. There have been only a handful of such sweet, technically perfect hitters in MLB history.

Now, is he overpaid? Yes. He's pretty much the best paid singles hitter ever.

He is over-hyped outside baseball, re: endorsements, appearances in celebrity tabloids, etc.? Yup. Yankee superstar + good-looking guy who has dated many of the Maxim 100 + celebrity endorsement opps upp the ass = the best known baseball player in America, better known even than Albert Puljols.

But don't confuse over-hyped and overpaid with overrated. So many baseball fans have blurred the concepts of over-hyped and overrated that Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game. Jeter, is in his prime, could turn around any of the best stuff thrown at him into a hit. He was, in his best years, a technically perfect hitter.

Key words: "In his prime"..."in his best years"....

[JoltinJoe]

The Jeter is overrated thing is pretty thin.

We're talking about the third youngest guy ever to 3,000 hits. This guy was a hitting machine in his prime, good for 200 hits a year. If you've watched the Yankees every day over the years, the image of Jeter going with a pitch perfectly and striking a single (to any field, depending on pitch location) is locked into your mind. There have been only a handful of such sweet, technically perfect hitters in MLB history.

Now, is he overpaid? Yes. He's pretty much the best paid singles hitter ever.

He is over-hyped outside baseball, re: endorsements, appearances in celebrity tabloids, etc.? Yup. Yankee superstar + good-looking guy who has dated many of the Maxim 100 + celebrity endorsement opps upp the ass = the best known baseball player in America, better known even than Albert Puljols.

But don't confuse over-hyped and overpaid with overrated. So many baseball fans have blurred the concepts of over-hyped and overrated that Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game. Jeter, is in his prime, could turn around any of the best stuff thrown at him into a hit. He was, in his best years, a technically perfect hitter.

Key words: "In his prime"..."in his best years"....

I'd say the same things about you...

Give the guy his due. He is one of the best pure hitters in MLB history, and that's why he's going to be the third youngest guy to reach 3,000 hits.

[dbackjon]

makes me wonder - had Ichiro played in MLB from say 22 years old... would he have been able to break Rose's hit record? I feel like the answer is yes.

Add up Ichiro's Japanese and AMerican records.....not even close.

Japan - nine seasons: 1278 hits
US - ten plus seasons: 2293 hits

Total - 3571 - would be fifth all time. Less then 700 behind record of 4256. Even using his lowest hit total for a year, 206, Ichiro would need 4 seasons to break it. Easily doable

[GannonFan]

... Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game.

See, and that's why people don't throw you a bone too often. You take a compliment, and then you drive it so far off the cliff into hyperbole that the same person who backed you before now needs to do a 180 and go the other way. Saying that Jeter is the "most underrated player in the game" is one of the single most absurd comments I have ever heard on any forum maybe in my life. Shame on you.

[grizzaholic]

... Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game.

See, and that's why people don't throw you a bone too often. You take a compliment, and then you drive it so far off the cliff into hyperbole that the same person who backed you before now needs to do a 180 and go the other way. Saying that Jeter is the "most underrated player in the game" is one of the single most absurd comments I have ever heard on any forum maybe in my life. Shame on you.

You have read Cap'n's posts..right?

[JoltinJoe]

... Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game.

See, and that's why people don't throw you a bone too often. You take a compliment, and then you drive it so far off the cliff into hyperbole that the same person who backed you before now needs to do a 180 and go the other way. Saying that Jeter is the "most underrated player in the game" is one of the single most absurd comments I have ever heard on any forum maybe in my life. Shame on you.

Stop it, you're going off the deep end.

The fact that you even responded like this proves my point. Because Jeter's social fame outside of baseball has become so prevalent, baseball fans now consistently call him overrated. He has, in fact, become underrated as a result.

He is one of purest hitters in MLB history. If you won't say that, you will have again proven my point.

[GannonFan]

See, and that's why people don't throw you a bone too often. You take a compliment, and then you drive it so far off the cliff into hyperbole that the same person who backed you before now needs to do a 180 and go the other way. Saying that Jeter is the "most underrated player in the game" is one of the single most absurd comments I have ever heard on any forum maybe in my life. Shame on you.

You have read Cap'n's posts..right?

Cappy posts absurd stuff on purpose - I don't think JJ can differentiate between absurd and reality when it comes to the Yankees.

[JoltinJoe]

You have read Cap'n's posts..right?

Cappy posts absurd stuff on purpose - I don't think JJ can differentiate between absurd and reality when it comes to the Yankees.

I know things I say about the Yankees are absurd. Like when I say they've won 27 world series. How absurd is that? Imagine-- A team winning the world series 27 times! Ridiculous.

[andy7171]

... Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game.

See, and that's why people don't throw you a bone too often. You take a compliment, and then you drive it so far off the cliff into hyperbole that the same person who backed you before now needs to do a 180 and go the other way. Saying that Jeter is the "most underrated player in the game" is one of the single most absurd comments I have ever heard on any forum maybe in my life. Shame on you.

He argues with D1B all the time, you can't really blame him.

[AZGrizFan]

Add up Ichiro's Japanese and AMerican records.....not even close.

Japan - nine seasons: 1278 hits
US - ten plus seasons: 2293 hits

Total - 3571 - would be fifth all time. Less then 700 behind record of 4256. Even using his lowest hit total for a year, 206, Ichiro would need 4 seasons to break it. Easily doable

Well, Rose got roughly 1200 of his hits AFTER age 37, but exceeded 140 only twice after age 38, and he played until he was 46....Not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't see Ichiro playing that long....hard to say though...he hasn't shown too many signs of slowing down.

[JoltinJoe]

Japan - nine seasons: 1278 hits
US - ten plus seasons: 2293 hits

Total - 3571 - would be fifth all time. Less then 700 behind record of 4256. Even using his lowest hit total for a year, 206, Ichiro would need 4 seasons to break it. Easily doable

Well, Rose got roughly 1200 of his hits AFTER age 37, but exceeded 140 only twice after age 38, and he played until he was 46....Not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't see Ichiro playing that long....hard to say though...he hasn't shown too many signs of slowing down.

Why only 1278 hits in 9 seasons in Japan? How many games do they play?

[AZGrizFan]

Well, Rose got roughly 1200 of his hits AFTER age 37, but exceeded 140 only twice after age 38, and he played until he was 46....Not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't see Ichiro playing that long....hard to say though...he hasn't shown too many signs of slowing down.

Why only 1278 hits in 9 seasons in Japan? How many games do they play?

He was eventually moved to the leadoff spot for the Blue Wave, where his immediate productivity dissolved any misgivings about his unconventional swing. He set a Japanese single-season record with 210 hits, the first player ever to top 200 hits in a single season. (Three players have since done so. Ichiro's record was eventually surpassed in 2010 by former major leaguer Matt Murton, who had 211 hits in a 142-game season. Ichiro's 210 hits had come in a 130-game season.)

And according to Wikipedia, it was only 7 FULL seasons, with the first two being spent going back and forth between their major and minor leagues.

[JoltinJoe]

Why only 1278 hits in 9 seasons in Japan? How many games do they play?

He was eventually moved to the leadoff spot for the Blue Wave, where his immediate productivity dissolved any misgivings about his unconventional swing. He set a Japanese single-season record with 210 hits, the first player ever to top 200 hits in a single season. (Three players have since done so. Ichiro's record was eventually surpassed in 2010 by former major leaguer Matt Murton, who had 211 hits in a 142-game season. Ichiro's 210 hits had come in a 130-game season.)

And according to Wikipedia, it was only 7 FULL seasons, with the first two being spent going back and forth between their major and minor leagues.

That explains a lot. But you'd still expect him to be over 1400 hits in 7 seasons, the way he has played in the US.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Well, Rose got roughly 1200 of his hits AFTER age 37, but exceeded 140 only twice after age 38, and he played until he was 46....Not saying it couldn't be done, but I don't see Ichiro playing that long....hard to say though...he hasn't shown too many signs of slowing down.

Why only 1278 hits in 9 seasons in Japan? How many games do they play?

also - they play 144 games.

[AZGrizFan]

Why only 1278 hits in 9 seasons in Japan? How many games do they play?

also - they play 144 games.

32 less games a year.....x 7 full years = 224 less games, which is about a season and a half so it's really 1278 hits in about 5 1/2 seasons....not too shabby.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

... Jeter has become, in the eyes of baseball fans, perhaps the most underrated player in the game.

Jeter = underrated? are you fucking kidding?

Is he an HOFer? of course and without question.

However, several big things. 1. if he played in Milwaukee or Colorado or Houston he would be compared CONSTANTLY to Craig Biggio. (also an HOFer to be sure) 2. Also if he played in those markets he would be a blip on everyone's radar and that's about it 3. because he played in the midst of the hype machine he became "Captain Intangibles!" - a polite way of saying "overpaid singles hitter" 4. because of his near constant fellating from a gaggle of northeast-centric writers and tv hosts, he's become something more than what he is... witness the numerous undeserved gold gloves that all stem from the defensive player he was 10 years ago... when any legitimate analysis shows he's a below average glove and arm.

Point being. He's good. He's great even. However, the one thing you CANNOT say is that he is anywhere approaching "underrated"

[TwinTownBisonFan]

also - they play 144 games.

32 less games a year.....x 7 full years = 224 less games, which is about a season and a half so it's really 1278 hits in about 5 1/2 seasons....not too shabby.

umm check your math...

18 fewer games a year.

162-144 = 18

[JoltinJoe]

also - they play 144 games.

32 less games a year.....x 7 full years = 224 less games, which is about a season and a half so it's really 1278 hits in about 5 1/2 seasons....not too shabby.

So if he had 18 more games those seven seasons, you can pretty safely project another 140 hits to his overall career numbers.

[AZGrizFan]

32 less games a year.....x 7 full years = 224 less games, which is about a season and a half so it's really 1278 hits in about 5 1/2 seasons....not too shabby.

umm check your math...

18 fewer games a year.

162-144 = 18

During Ichiro's time they played 130 game seasons.

[JoltinJoe]

Still waiting for a single acknowledgment here that Jeter is one of the purest natural hitters in MLB history.

Instead, it's the usual gibberish ... "Sure, Jeter is a sure first ballot HOFer, BUT ...."

I'm still trying to identify another first-ballot lock who was so routinely put down like this by otherwise knowledgeable baseball fans.

Underrated.

[AZGrizFan]

Still waiting for a single acknowledgment here that Jeter is one of the purest natural hitters in MLB history.

Instead, it's the usual gibberish ... "Sure, Jeter is a sure first ballot HOFer, BUT ...."

I'm still trying to identify another first-ballot lock who was so routinely put down like this by otherwise knowledgeable baseball fans.

Underrated.

He has just over 2900 hits in 15 full seasons= < 200/year. Ichiro has over 2200 in 10 seasons.....

I'll take Ichiro.

[JoltinJoe]

Still waiting for a single acknowledgment here that Jeter is one of the purest natural hitters in MLB history.

Instead, it's the usual gibberish ... "Sure, Jeter is a sure first ballot HOFer, BUT ...."

I'm still trying to identify another first-ballot lock who was so routinely put down like this by otherwise knowledgeable baseball fans.

Underrated.

He has just over 2900 hits in 15 full seasons= < 200/year. Ichiro has over 2200 in 10 seasons.....

I'll take Ichiro.

I'd take Farrah Fawcett over Jaclyn Smith (likewise, in their prime).

Seriously, would it kill you just to acknowledge that Jeter is a great pure hitter?

[AZGrizFan]

He has just over 2900 hits in 15 full seasons= < 200/year. Ichiro has over 2200 in 10 seasons.....

I'll take Ichiro.

I'd take Farrah Fawcett over Jaclyn Smith (likewise, in their prime).

Seriously, would it kill you just to acknowledge that Jeter is a great pure hitter?

Dude, why must you grovel for compliments on Jeter? He's about to become the third youngest player to reach 3000 hits. Doesn't THAT speak for itself?

[JoltinJoe]

I'd take Farrah Fawcett over Jaclyn Smith (likewise, in their prime).

Seriously, would it kill you just to acknowledge that Jeter is a great pure hitter?

Dude, why must you grovel for compliments on Jeter? He's about to become the third youngest player to reach 3000 hits. Doesn't THAT speak for itself?

You would think so, wouldn't it?

But you gets guys like GF who call you absurd if you suggest that Jeter is actually under-appreciated by baseball fans.

[AZGrizFan]

Dude, why must you grovel for compliments on Jeter? He's about to become the third youngest player to reach 3000 hits. Doesn't THAT speak for itself?

You would think so, wouldn't it?

But you gets guys like GF who call you absurd if you suggest that Jeter is actually under-appreciated by baseball fans.

Not underappreciated...overhyped. Big difference. Again, if he played on ANY other team he'd be discussed in the same sentence as Craig Biggio, not Mickey Mantle.