VCU expresses interest in acquiring City Stadium

[ODUalum11]

It's been said a few times on CAAzone now. Don't remember which threads but I can find them if you want.

My assumption is that they build the platform to the area on the left of this pic:


And grizalltheway, our band takes up a lot of space for some reason. See the bottom right of this pic where there's an empty space in the stands. That's roughly 500 seats.

I'm gonna be in the band next year, so I hope we get at least a semi-decent view of the game

EDIT: Remember when this topic was about VCU and City Stadium?

That came to mind as well when I heard they were going to move the band.

[GannonFan]

Well, we did draw more for playoff games that Wash-Griz Stadium did last year, correct?

You sure did, chief. It's just a shame 13,000 of your regular fans didn't get the memo that your team was still playing.

Yeah, what a bummer. So hard to make it through all those wins in the playoffs without more people around me.

[ODUalum11]

This is the perfect example of a thread getting off topic.

[∞∞∞]

EDIT: Remember when this topic was about VCU and City Stadium?

VCU sucks. Instead of using the money to expand their product, they did the complete opposite and put all their eggs in one basket. They're one bad hire, one bad decision, one bad recruiting class, or one bad violation from irrelevance...and then they would've ended up paying millions and millions of dollars thanks to something that is now simply a memory. At least with investing into multiple sports, you have something to rally the school around if one is faultering (Towson excluded of course).

So F VCU...bunch of artsy hipster wannabe sports fans. They've already been reprimanded by the state for raising the tuition by 24%, have one of the worst faculty-student ratios in Virginia, are constantly complaining about their alumni not giving money, and yet here they sit paying their basketball coach 1.3 million dollars a year (charging the students for it nontheless) and being short-sited about the future.

But I guess in the end, we'll be the one enjoying a beautiful fall afternoon with 20,000+ fellow fans while they sit at home reminiscing about a memory (albeit a great one). Memories are nice, but living in the present is even nicer.

[ODUalum11]

∞∞∞, can you explain to me in further detail what it is that VCU did? I think I have a basic idea of what they did but from what it seems like it sounds like VCU raised student tuition in order to pay Shaka Smart's salary and now the state of Virginia has punished VCU for doing so? What exactly was the punishment? Am I missing anything?

[State Line Liquors]

The good news about the attendance in the semi against GSU is that nobody could ever confuse it as a sell out, since it clearly wasn't. We'd just be blowing hot air, if we called it a sellout, since everyone knows what a sellout is. And when it's not a sellout, it would be foolish to ever call it a sellout, or make a big deal about it being a sellout, since we'd be dead wrong. And if we were foolish like that, and did call it a sellout, and puffed up our chest about it, and were wrong, then we'd probably resort to some other tactic to draw attention away from the fact that it wasn't actually a sell out.

Point is, IAmTheLiqour, you seem to be a little bitter about the fact that Delawhere doesn't draw **** for playoff games, and you're also worried that ODU might just beat the **** out of you in that facet when/if they start making the postseason.

Is that the point, SleeplessInMissoula?

Or is the point, actually, that I'd like to try spread a dose of reality amongst the welcome newcomers to FCS Fandom? I mean, if I hadn't started asking you questions, we might've actually been left to believe after watching videos of lonely Missoula from a couple years ago, that you sold out a game that you actually didn't.

Maybe ODU will sell out their playoff games. Maybe I'm right, and they won't. If their goal is to be the Montana of the East Coast, then they'd better start demolishing population centers in Hampton Roads and reducing infrastructure and other activities, because they'll have to be the only show in town to do what you all have done. And even then, if they're just like Montana, they'll end up coming up short of a sell-out anyway. Maybe they could post some videos of it.

[ODUalum11]

Point is, IAmTheLiqour, you seem to be a little bitter about the fact that Delawhere doesn't draw **** for playoff games, and you're also worried that ODU might just beat the **** out of you in that facet when/if they start making the postseason.

Is that the point, SleeplessInMissoula?

Or is the point, actually, that I'd like to try spread a dose of reality amongst the welcome newcomers to FCS Fandom? I mean, if I hadn't started asking you questions, we might've actually been left to believe after watching videos of lonely Missoula from a couple years ago, that you sold out a game that you actually didn't.

Maybe ODU will sell out their playoff games. Maybe I'm right, and they won't. If their goal is to be the Montana of the East Coast, then they'd better start demolishing population centers in Hampton Roads and reducing infrastructure and other activities, because they'll have to be the only show in town to do what you all have done. And even then, if they're just like Montana, they'll end up coming up short of a sell-out anyway. Maybe they could post some videos of it.

we're already pretty much the only show in town. Nobody cares about Hampton University or Norfolk State University as much as the support that ODU gets. There's a reason why a program such as ODU is top 5 in attendance and we're only going into our 3rd year, 1st in conference.

[∞∞∞]

∞∞∞, can you explain to me in further detail what it is that VCU did? I think I have a basic idea of what they did but from what it seems like it sounds like VCU raised student tuition in order to pay Shaka Smart's salary and now the state of Virginia has punished VCU for doing so? What exactly was the punishment? Am I missing anything?

Last year, they raised tuition by 24%. While VCU had the lowest tution rate in the state (it's now higher than ODU's), they really didn't warn anyone before raising it that ridiculous amount. While now it's on par with the other state schools which is what VCU cited as the reasoning, a lot of people were upset at VCU because in this economy, many did choose to go to VCU because of the lower rates and this was certainly a shock. Their President also messed up bad about announcing it. Many thought he was about to announce football because he told people the announcement was a huge deal and something that's long overdue, and then it ended up being a 24% tuition hike.

Anyways, the governor decided to punish VCU for the sudden price hike by taking away some of their state money. I'm not really sure that was the way to go, but he did it. I think VCU did fight back though and ended up getting back some of the money lost.

ps. VCU raised tuition by 8% this year.

edit: and even now, they still have a lot of issue with a lack of faculty. I'm not sure if they've got the best accounting people at that school.

[Grizalltheway]

Point is, IAmTheLiqour, you seem to be a little bitter about the fact that Delawhere doesn't draw **** for playoff games, and you're also worried that ODU might just beat the **** out of you in that facet when/if they start making the postseason.

Is that the point, SleeplessInMissoula?

Or is the point, actually, that I'd like to try spread a dose of reality amongst the welcome newcomers to FCS Fandom? I mean, if I hadn't started asking you questions, we might've actually been left to believe after watching videos of lonely Missoula from a couple years ago, that you sold out a game that you actually didn't.

Maybe ODU will sell out their playoff games. Maybe I'm right, and they won't. If their goal is to be the Montana of the East Coast, then they'd better start demolishing population centers in Hampton Roads and reducing infrastructure and other activities, because they'll have to be the only show in town to do what you all have done. And even then, if they're just like Montana, they'll end up coming up short of a sell-out anyway. Maybe they could post some videos of it.

God, you're a twat. We could be literally one seat short of a sellout, and you'd sit here and nitpick about it. And, thank God people like you think there's nothing to do here; it might end up being a cesspool like the mid-Atlantic if too many of you moved here.

[TheDancinMonarch]

If their goal is to be the Montana of the East Coast, ...

If we aspire to be the Montana of the East Coast, which would be a noble goal footballwise, can we at least do it without the Montana weather? I think I much prefer southeastern Virginia fall weather to Montana fall weather. You may now continue the "discussion".

Oh and I forgot to say that VCU does, in fact, SUCK!

[State Line Liquors]

God, you're a twat. We could be literally one seat short of a sellout, and you'd sit here and nitpick about it. And, thank God people like you think there's nothing to do here; it might end up being a cesspool like the mid-Atlantic if too many of you moved here.

The good news for the rest of the world is that if it weren't for nitpickers like me, a 4% numerical difference might just get swept under the rug (like the difference between a stadium being at 100% capacity or 96% capacity). And if that 4% was swept under the rug, then folks like you might end up overspending on beef jerky and molasses to get you through the winter, and then not be able to afford to take your kids to the dentist come the thaw in May.

[ODUalum11]

∞∞∞, can you explain to me in further detail what it is that VCU did? I think I have a basic idea of what they did but from what it seems like it sounds like VCU raised student tuition in order to pay Shaka Smart's salary and now the state of Virginia has punished VCU for doing so? What exactly was the punishment? Am I missing anything?

Last year, they raised tuition by 24%. While VCU had the lowest tution rate in the state (it's now higher than ODU's), they really didn't warn anyone before raising it that ridiculous amount. While now it's on par with the other state schools which is what VCU cited as the reasoning, a lot of people were upset at VCU because in this economy, many did choose to go to VCU because of the lower rates and this was certainly a shock. Their President also messed up bad about announcing it. Many thought he was about to announce football because he told people the announcement was a huge deal and something that's long overdue, and then it ended up being a 24% tuition hike.

Anyways, the governor decided to punish VCU for the sudden price hike by taking away some of their state money. I'm not really sure that was the way to go, but he did it. I think VCU did fight back though and ended up getting back some of the money lost.

ps. VCU raised tuition by 8% this year.

edit: and even now, they still have a lot of issue with a lack of faculty. I'm not sure if they've got the best accounting people at that school.

Gotta love how there is two totally different discussions going on in this thread.

Anyway ∞∞∞, thanks for explaining the whole situation. I thought the whole punishment that the state of Virginia handed down to VCU was recently and was in connection with VCU's Final Four run and Shaka Smart's contract extension.

It's pretty obvious that VCU puts all their eggs into one basket and thats men's basketball. You look at their success in athletics across the board and they have some mediocre athletic programs with the exception of two and thats Tennis and Baseball. With the increase in finances for men's basketball with their FF run, Smart's extension, renovations to their basketball facility, even some VCU fans think their tennis and baseball programs will head in the direction of mediocrity.

Too be honest, I think this is another reason why they need football, to help other athletic programs stay afloat and not have to rely on tuition increases every year to help fund athletics. Yeah, they will take a hit like ODU did recently to start football but it will only benefit them in the future. Right now they really only have one revenue generating sport on campus and thats Men's basketball while schools like JMU and ODU have three (men's and women's basketball, and football). Even though its a revenue generating sport at VCU, the school gets very little support for their women's program.

[BDKJMU]

Can't look up exact #s on blackberry, but JMU came close to a sellout in 08' qtr final vs Nova (close to 15k in 15.5k capacity, and sold out semi final vs Montana (close to 16k).

About 25 heads south of 16k for the semi.

I can't seem to find anything listing the actual capacity prior to the beautiful new addition, but will take your word for it, stand corrected and amend my prior statement:

'Nobody, and I mean nobody sells out a playoff game, except JMU when they were playing in a stadium about 40% smaller than their renovated stadium.'

Quick look I don't see anything online about Bridgeforth's capacity in past yrs, but this is what I have written down:
02-04': 12,800 (actually a decrease I believe from prior when had temp in both endzones before Plecker Center.
05': 13,600 (increase in temp endzone)
06'-07': 14,513 (increase in temp endzone)
08'-09': 15,500 (increase temp endzone)
10': 16,500 (1/2 way through Phase I)

I stand corrected on the 08' Qtr final vs Nova being close to 15k. Here was JMU's listed attendance for 3 playoff games, which either JMU wasn't lowballing, or if they were, was only slightly:
Wofford 1st round: 12,826 (Thanksgiving)
Nova Qtr final: 13,780
Montana semis: 15,976 (Fri night, game time temp 30 degrees, sellout, 103% capacity)

With JMU's student body growing about 3% a yr, and the alumni and football fanbase increaseing even faster than that, + with the new stadium, there's no doubt in my mind that JMU could increase those #s by around 1/3, again high teens/low 20s

The 08' regular season 6 games 15.5k capacity avg 15,946, the playoffs 14,194. Thats close to 90% attendance avg playoffs compared to regular season avg. I think JMU would do that in the new stadium on a regular season attendance avg around 20k, 95% if had a bye and didn't have to host on Thanksgiving weekend.

[BDKJMU]

When ODU makes the playoffs and hosts, which I think is a good chance by 2013, I think good chance they'll sellout anything except an opening round/no bye Thanksgiving game, which is traditionally an attendance killer for most teams as the students are gone.

For teams you have a lot of factors on attendance going into 2nd round (round of 16), quarters, or semis:

Weather (with the playoffs through the semis going a week longer higher chance of colder weather. Hurts to have a geriatric fanbase who won't go to games if the temp is in the 40s, much less 30s (like UD) but this won't be as much of an issue for ODU.

Opponent (will the opponent bring just a few hundred or a few k?).

Semis:
-Fri night or Sat (usually this has only been the semis but this past season had a quarterfinal game UNH @ UD on a Fri). Fri night game will hurt attendance some compared to a Sat
-Now that the semis are a week later students at most schools are done exams & alot won't stay a couple of extra days for the game. Also closer to Christmas & people have more stuff going on.
-TV (especially national TV for the semis, & an earlier round like 2 qtr final games this past season or JMU @ YSU 1st round ESPN2 06'): this might hurt attendance, esp with cold weather.

Low balling attendance #s because the NCAA gets a cut based on attendance. Some teams apparently do this. I don't know if JMU did in 08'. If they did, it was only for the 1st 2 rounds, and it wasn't by much.

But ODU can worry about that bridge when they come to it- it might be a little while before they have to worry about playoff attendance.

[DaBigBlue]

That was a solid post by BDKJMU, worry about it when the time comes.
I think if we make the playoffs, the newest of it will help to sell the early rounds. We have 14.5K season tickets with a waiting list near 3K. I know our AD will go with a strong bid, the football program was in the black for about $3mil last year. Having the 4th highest attendance in FCS and moderate late fall weather should also help with the the ticket sales.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/ ... NDANCE.pdf


Back to VCU, I hope they never get football. I really like having something they don't have and if they get football they will be completing for recruits with ODU. VCU and GMU are two of the biggest schools east of the Mississippi that don't have football and thats fine with me. VCU is a basketball school, always has been and they latest contact with their coach proves it. Richmond is a sports wasteland, nothing does well there.

[Thumper 76]

I'm just glad to have football and I know the storm is slowly approaching, lol. I do think however that the attention we're getting from fans of other schools is a telling sign of a fear that ODU will soon dominate the league. A 3 year program at that, lol.

But I was thinking, How about a scenario with ODU, Charlotte and Georgia State in the SoCon as football only schools. We would belong to a true southern conference, not some "northeast, midatlantic, southern" hybrid that's about to fall apart. I kinda like the idea though it never will happen or could it. What if the CAA does come apart?.

OH MY GOD! ODU=NDSU, they even have a JBB! Holy shit batman, seriously, make their posters names the names of a bunch of NDSU posters and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[T-Dog]

I'm just glad to have football and I know the storm is slowly approaching, lol. I do think however that the attention we're getting from fans of other schools is a telling sign of a fear that ODU will soon dominate the league. A 3 year program at that, lol.

But I was thinking, How about a scenario with ODU, Charlotte and Georgia State in the SoCon as football only schools. We would belong to a true southern conference, not some "northeast, midatlantic, southern" hybrid that's about to fall apart. I kinda like the idea though it never will happen or could it. What if the CAA does come apart?.

OH MY GOD! ODU=NDSU, they even have a JBB! Holy shit batman, seriously, make their posters names the names of a bunch of NDSU posters and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[youtube][/youtube]

[Blue_Trombone]

I'm just glad to have football and I know the storm is slowly approaching, lol. I do think however that the attention we're getting from fans of other schools is a telling sign of a fear that ODU will soon dominate the league. A 3 year program at that, lol.

But I was thinking, How about a scenario with ODU, Charlotte and Georgia State in the SoCon as football only schools. We would belong to a true southern conference, not some "northeast, midatlantic, southern" hybrid that's about to fall apart. I kinda like the idea though it never will happen or could it. What if the CAA does come apart?.

OH MY GOD! ODU=NDSU, they even have a JBB! Holy **** batman, seriously, make their posters names the names of a bunch of NDSU posters and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

WHOA THERE

Don't associate me with those bunch of loonies.... at least not yet. Let me prove that i'm absolutely insane, don't just assume it.

[89Hen]

Usually, when someone is annoying, they are put on "ignore" or they are simply ignored. You can't ignore us. The constant attempt to put ODU in their predetermined seat is laughable. We sellout or games, we care about our football. We're big. If only our stadium had more seats. True, the CAA has some of the best teams in the country. But if you can't sellout your stadium year in year out, that means your fans don't give a s(hit). Why should we care what you say when your fans don't care about you. W&M didn't sellout for the year, Delaware did not, JMU did not, Villanova did not. Towson is a joke. We did and we will continue to, win or lose. The Flagship National Championship Program.

I was wrong superburger should stick around more often.

Agreed. This guy is great.

[GannonFan]

Too be honest, I think this is another reason why they need football, to help other athletic programs stay afloat and not have to rely on tuition increases every year to help fund athletics. Yeah, they will take a hit like ODU did recently to start football but it will only benefit them in the future. Right now they really only have one revenue generating sport on campus and thats Men's basketball while schools like JMU and ODU have three (men's and women's basketball, and football). Even though its a revenue generating sport at VCU, the school gets very little support for their women's program.

I'm not familiar enough with ODU to know how they do it, but it's a bit of a misnomer to say that some of those sports at those schools are "revenue generating" on their own rather than having to live off of tuition increases. Most of those schools you mention are heavily funded by student activity fees - sure, that's not tuition, per se, but it's not really any different - the students, those who attend games and the majority who don't, end up footing a big portion of the bill.

[CAA Flagship]

Too be honest, I think this is another reason why they need football, to help other athletic programs stay afloat and not have to rely on tuition increases every year to help fund athletics. Yeah, they will take a hit like ODU did recently to start football but it will only benefit them in the future. Right now they really only have one revenue generating sport on campus and thats Men's basketball while schools like JMU and ODU have three (men's and women's basketball, and football). Even though its a revenue generating sport at VCU, the school gets very little support for their women's program.

I'm not familiar enough with ODU to know how they do it, but it's a bit of a misnomer to say that some of those sports at those schools are "revenue generating" on their own rather than having to live off of tuition increases. Most of those schools you mention are heavily funded by student activity fees - sure, that's not tuition, per se, but it's not really any different - the students, those who attend games and the majority who don't, end up footing a big portion of the bill.

Exactly. I don't have the number off the top of my head but Old Dominion's athletic budget is heavily funded through student activity fees. However, it is my understanding that our student activity fees are very reasonable compared to other schools as quoted to me by an administrator recently. This is where the ticket sales, and donations, come in to play. By selling over 14,000 season tickets at more than $20 per game, that helps keep the student activity fees down.

[VBR_Productions]

I'm not familiar enough with ODU to know how they do it, but it's a bit of a misnomer to say that some of those sports at those schools are "revenue generating" on their own rather than having to live off of tuition increases. Most of those schools you mention are heavily funded by student activity fees - sure, that's not tuition, per se, but it's not really any different - the students, those who attend games and the majority who don't, end up footing a big portion of the bill.

Exactly. I don't have the number off the top of my head but Old Dominion's athletic budget is heavily funded through student activity fees. However, it is my understanding that our student activity fees are very reasonable compared to other schools as quoted to me by an administrator recently. This is where the ticket sales, and donations, come in to play. By selling over 14,000 season tickets at more than $20 per game, that helps keep the student activity fees down.

Per this report, more than $23M of ODU's $32M revenue from athletics was generated by student fees for the year ended 6/30/2010.

For comparison's sake I'm also attaching the reports of GMU, VCU and JMU.

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/oduncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/gmuncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/vcuncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/jmuncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[State Line Liquors]

Exactly. I don't have the number off the top of my head but Old Dominion's athletic budget is heavily funded through student activity fees. However, it is my understanding that our student activity fees are very reasonable compared to other schools as quoted to me by an administrator recently. This is where the ticket sales, and donations, come in to play. By selling over 14,000 season tickets at more than $20 per game, that helps keep the student activity fees down.

Per this report, more than $23M of ODU's $32M revenue from athletics was generated by student fees for the year ended 6/30/2010.

For comparison's sake I'm also attaching the reports of GMU, VCU and JMU.

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/oduncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good information, VBR. Is this same information publicly available for Delaware that you're aware of?

The only thing I could find for UD was a $400 per semester student activity fee, but I'd have to imagine that all doesn't go to fund our athletics department since there are several renovations going on to public use recreation facilities on campus. At $800 a year x 16,000 undergrad (add perhaps another 4k grad level, if they're even charged an activity fee) that would put UDs revenues between $12.8M and $16 Million.

At the figures you mention, the price of 18k tickets sold per game X $20 a ticket X 6 home games would be only about $2.16 Million in revenue...and that's only a drop in the bucket in comparison to those fees. I'd imagine ODU is a very good value for an in-state student though.

[VBR_Productions]

Per this report, more than $23M of ODU's $32M revenue from athletics was generated by student fees for the year ended 6/30/2010.

For comparison's sake I'm also attaching the reports of GMU, VCU and JMU.

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/oduncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good information, VBR. Is this same information publicly available for Delaware that you're aware of?

The only thing I could find for UD was a $400 per semester student activity fee, but I'd have to imagine that all doesn't go to fund our athletics department since there are several renovations going on to public use recreation facilities on campus. At $800 a year x 16,000 undergrad (add perhaps another 4k grad level, if they're even charged an activity fee) that would put UDs revenues between $12.8M and $16 Million.

At the figures you mention, the price of 18k tickets sold per game X $20 a ticket X 6 home games would be only about $2.16 Million in revenue...and that's only a drop in the bucket in comparison to those fees. I'd imagine ODU is a very good value for an in-state student though.

I did a quick search but I didn't find anything for UDel. I'll see what I can find later today because I'd like to do a comparison of all CAA schools.

[GannonFan]

Per this report, more than $23M of ODU's $32M revenue from athletics was generated by student fees for the year ended 6/30/2010.

For comparison's sake I'm also attaching the reports of GMU, VCU and JMU.

http://www.apa.state.va.us/reports/oduncaa2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good information, VBR. Is this same information publicly available for Delaware that you're aware of?

The only thing I could find for UD was a $400 per semester student activity fee, but I'd have to imagine that all doesn't go to fund our athletics department since there are several renovations going on to public use recreation facilities on campus. At $800 a year x 16,000 undergrad (add perhaps another 4k grad level, if they're even charged an activity fee) that would put UDs revenues between $12.8M and $16 Million.

At the figures you mention, the price of 18k tickets sold per game X $20 a ticket X 6 home games would be only about $2.16 Million in revenue...and that's only a drop in the bucket in comparison to those fees. I'd imagine ODU is a very good value for an in-state student though.

Actually, the $450 student fee at UD is a per year fee, not a per semester.

UD's been slow to the game in terms of having student fees fund most of the athletic department, especially compared to other CAA schools. It was just as low as $200 before they decided to couple improvements to the Bob with improvements with the on-campus intramural building and use that as justification for doubling the student fee. But even then UD is still 2x-3x less than other schools in terms of student fees funding athletic-related stuff.

VBR - UD information is hard to find - although a state school per se, because only a fraction of their revenue comes from the state they operate at an arm's length distance from the state and are quasi-private, meaning that they don't share a lot of information. In a larger state they probably couldn't do that, but in such a small state, they've managed to keep the state at bay in terms of control.