Big Sky Sends UND a Warning: We Have A Problem

[JBB]

I think that the BSC schools need to tell the conference to be quiet. The Big Sky needs to stay out of this and if anything support UND. This is a member of the conference the Big Sky works for the school not the other way around there Big Sky needs to be helping them. I for one like the name I find nothing offensive about it. If the Big Sky has no spine then the BS schools need to start putting pressure to remove the conference President or at other options.

Obviously you didnt read the letter:

If there is anything we can do to assist you please dont hesitate to contact us. And please, keep us informed on any progress you are able to make on this issue.

The Big Sky was clear on who is in charge, the NCAA. They also made it clear membership in the NCAA is voluntary and any school is free to leave anytime.

If you are reading any WAC blogs you know the talk of UND, and always hoping the Montana Schools will join them, has started.

I was surprised by the report of protests on the Cal Davis campus when UND brought their football team to town. St. Cloud State would also protest and would not publish the marks or use the name when calling the games. The UND fan base would look a lot like some of you folks, all angry and indignant and profane. It was of course the fault of SCSU, NDSU, Dr. Chapman Tom Douple, they were causing all the problems for them and dont forget Notre Dame!

I hope they continue the fight and force the BSC hand. Then they will be on to the WAC!

They have a nice college in a nice little town but they are a bit stubborn, selfish and never really learned to play with other children very well. You are just beginning to see what life with UND in the conference will be like!

[JBB]

Oh what fun!!

That complete BS that it's a "hockey only" crowd. I know plenty of people that love the Fighting Sioux logo not because of the hockey team but because of their love for the tradition that the logo has given us over the years. This is a crappy issue. Why you or anyone want to create a divide among fans of UND regardless if they believe the name should be retired or not? It's a UND fan on UND fan crime and that's just dumb. We are all cheer for the same team and all wish this could be handled and behind us. Doesn't mean we can't have different opinions on if the name should go or stay. Just saying.

They are starting to tear away at themselves now!

[SuperHornet]

1. To the best of my knowledge, there was never any talk of EWU or Weber joining the WAC. There was talk of Montana outright joining and Sac State upgrading their CURRENT WAC membership, and indirectly of MSU going with Montana as a pair. But Montana turned the WAC down for various reasons (related, from what I gather, to both the WAC's inherent instability of late and the fact that MSU is nowhere near ready for the jump). Similarly, Sac turned the WAC down as well, choosing to retain the current associate status. I've also heard rumors of PSU potentially going, but never anything related to EWU or Weber until now. I'd love to see documentation of that, though.

2. While I myself do not like the presence of UND in the Sky, I find THIS method of dumping them to be disingenous at best. The "real" issue here is that of travel costs. The league sticking their nose into internal issues is disgusting, to say the least. It's not like the school has balked on dues or done anything to abuse their players or even had an academic cheating scandal. Barring anything like that, Fullerton should keep his nose out of UND's business.

[JBB]

This seems to be the consensus on the way it will unfold:

The new state law goes into effect August 1.
There ain't no way the AG and the Supreme Court get this cleared up in a month, let alone a couple weeks.
The NCAA puts UND back on the list on August 15.
This is a North Dakota matter, no judge is going to stop the NCAA .
The Big Sky renigs on its invite by the end of the month effective immediately. They've got two good reasons: travel/costs and the nickname (even if the law issue is dealt with).

If UND is rejected will any games scheduled with them by other Big Sky members be canceled?
Will UND rejoin the GWC?
Will they drop football?

I dont see how Fullerton can keep his nose out of UND business. UND is involved with the Big Sky, they are on an admissions track. What affects UND affects the Sky. The Sky is firmly alinged and loyal to the NCAA.

[Wildcat Ryan]

Seems to me the Sioux tribes are being really petty, there is NOTHING offensive or abusive about UND's nickname or logo, the logo and name depict a proud, strong indian tribe. If I can see that why cant the Sioux?

Its not like they are calling themselves the "Cowardly Sioux" or using a logo like this

[CatBlitz22]

Seems to me the Sioux tribes are being really petty, there is NOTHING offensive or abusive about UND's nickname or logo, the logo and name depict a proud, strong indian tribe. If I can see that why cant the Sioux?

Its not like they are calling themselves the "Cowardly Sioux" or using a logo like this

what's wrong with that logo? I see Native Americans around here wearing them ALL the time.

[JBB]

The boycott on scheduling UND is growing. South Dakota State University has now said that if the controversy continues they will be reconsidering any scheduling with UND after the already contracted 2013 football game. This wont be the last school to turn their back on them. The Summit league has already issued a warning to their members cautioning them on scheduling UND and getting involved in this controversy.

The battle over the use of the nickname has been lost. Petty Indians? No, petty UND.

A logo similar to the above logo was the mark for a club called the "Sammy Sioux Club" at UND. It was disbanded in the 60s or 70s. The judge that ruled over the case between UND and the NCAA was a member and photographs of him wearing the jacket were published. That judge ruled that the case was closed and the records not open for review.

The best thing the Big Sky can do is rally around UND and tell the NCAA to go to hell!!

[bincitysioux]

Seems to me the Sioux tribes are being really petty, there is NOTHING offensive or abusive about UND's nickname or logo, the logo and name depict a proud, strong indian tribe. If I can see that why cant the Sioux?

Its not like they are calling themselves the "Cowardly Sioux" or using a logo like this

Just to clarify, the Sioux tribe closest to UND strongly supports the use of the name and following a recent tribal referendum, the tribal council passed a resolution giving UND their blessing to use the name and logo "in perpetuity".

The other tribe that the NCAA required us to get permission from, which is much farther away and mostly lies in another state, has not allowed their people to hold a vote, and the official position of the tribal council is to oppose it. The popular opinion though is that if a vote were held, support of the name and logo would be conveyed.

The tribes are not really "being petty", as for the most part they are supportive of the Univesity. It is the leadership of the NCAA behind all this.

[JBB]

The vote was non-binding and did not result in a letter to the NCAA from the Tribal Council spelling out their approval as required by the "binding" agreement between the NCAA and UND.

By all means dig-in, claim you are correct and continue the "good fight"!

[JBB]

I sure hope NDSU respects the wishes of the NCAA a drops that silly basketball game. Football is out of the question.

UND is now poison in the NCAA. The power of the NCAA is now being seen as the "rank and file" fall in behind the leadership of their organization. With a schedule like UND football has this season its easy to think a lot of schools other than those already known have told UND no dice when it comes to games. Its also clear there will be no hockey with Wisconsin and Minnesota after the Big 10 league starts up.

Moving out of the NCAA doesnt help because it will take away hockey as they know it.

Staying in D2 is not a solution because D2 is in the NCAA as well. This transition, if things keep going as they are, is going to end up just as I predicted several years ago: UND is not going to be voted in as a member of Division 1 and will remain a D2 school. Their transition is now if full failure mode.

[JALMOND]

Things are starting to get ugly over on http://www.siouxsports.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. UND fans are starting to turn on future conference mates:

Part of this is posturing. The question is how much. If the Big Sky was really concerned about it's schools meeting all NCAA requirements, it would kick out Idaho State now.

Idaho State has been banned from football postseason - which is worse than a ban from hosting post-season games - yet no threats are being publicly made at Idaho State for horrible academic progress or even having a football coach that has a record of cheating and NCAA probation.

Idaho State is a founding institution of the Big Sky, one of four left in the conference (Montana, Montana State and Weber State are the others). Any attempt by the "newbies" to discredit ISU or any of the other Core 4 members is kind of like unplugging the life support from your father because he is not "useful" anymore. The attitude of the Big Sky to UND may be a bit different if UND had been in the conference for 50 years like ISU and not 5 months.

[JBB]

The big reason UND finds itself in this position is the "hockey crowd" led by Dave Hakstol, the head coach. They really pushed the Carlson Bill hard with the key stone being a passionate appeal letter from Coach Hakstol. At least one alum joined in with a scathing letter to President Kelly about keeping the nickname. That one might have even called for Kelly to step down, but I might be wrong. It appears the entire leadership team at UND is now suffering from in-fighting and criticism and its hard to remember just who has demanded who's resignation or has been out-right fired.

Those efforts assured the passage of the Bill. Now the "unintended consequences" of the legislation are being felt. Many of us saw the potential for the disaster. Fot the amusement of all the situation now seems to be spiraling out of control.

Its amazing to me that some still feel the NCAA will compromise somehow. I think that time is long gone. The NCAA wouldnt even go to a meeting suggested for that purpose with the highest North Dakota Officials.

The one constant in this entire saga has been UND's unwillingness to compromise with anyone about anything. For many years that resistance has been like a grinding wheel on a block of iron. At one point in the past it may have honed the steel to a fine edge but it kept wearing away and now the resistance has created an edge that is jagged and useless, without meaning.

If ever there was a time for a new beginning this is it. We will see.

[JBB]

From what I understand Montana was the main reason we got an invite. They were extremely unhappy with being in a conference with institutions they had nothing in common with academically. There might be a few presidents out there unhappy with the UND invite but they would have been a lot unhappier in a BSC without Montana. http://www.siouxsports.com

UND fans have been bragging about joining a conference with "peer institutions". Now I see what they mean: Montana and UND.

[lakesbison]

Couldnt be any better than these arrogant losers losing a conf. Spot for embarassing the INDIAN NATIONS around the area. If a group, ANY of them want you. to stop using thier name. Then DONT.

goto the NAIA so you can compete.




Their Ignorant fans will keep using the name, thus keeping the protests coming..lose lose situation!


Bincity...Just to clarify, the Sioux tribe closest to UND strongly supports the use
WRONG!!!! 64%.....and it. was ONLY 25% of population voting.....not strongly

[CSUBUCDAD]

What is going to be next. NCAA bows to PETA and forces all schools with animal mascots to change their mascot to a non specific object that is not a living thing? This PC crap has been out of control for nearly 30 years now ever since sister Lisa and her merry band of feminazi winches decided to burn their bra in protest. What were they protesting anyway? Don't they realize that is just made guys stare more?

[ming01]

after all the crap und gave bison fans that they got into the big sky. karma is a you know what

[AZGrizFan]

I sure hope NDSU respects the wishes of the NCAA a drops that silly basketball game. Football is out of the question. UND is now poison in the NCAA. The power of the NCAA is now being seen as the "rank and file" fall in behind the leadership of their organization. With a schedule like UND football has this season its easy to think a lot of schools other than those already known have told UND no dice when it comes to games.

Its also clear there will be no hockey with Wisconsin and Minnesota after the Big 10 league starts up. Moving out of the NCAA doesnt help because it will take away hockey as they know it.

Staying in D2 is not a solution because D2 is in the NCAA as well. This transition, if things keep going as they are, is going to end up just as I predicted several years ago: UND is not going to be voted in as a member of Division 1 and will remain a D2 school. Their transition is now if full failure mode.

I'm sure it IS out of the question...you guys need bigger cupcakes, since you're 3-10 in your last 13 against UND. No fucking wonder NDSU is latching onto some lame "nickname controversy" to avoid putting their in-state rival on their schedule.

[Sapper]

I think that UND fans should be as nice as they can to the fans of the rest of the BSC as if UND was removed from the BSC it we be an even 12 teams and would make scheduling much easier. UND has everything to lose I think that the NCAA is wrong and that UND should not be forced to change their name. And for bashing ISU you are correct we have been banned from post season play this year we have a new coach that has a colorful past but ISU still has something that UND doesn’t. A National championship, three big sky titles and we have been taught humility.

[JBB]

Since 1980 NDSU is 16-8 vs. und http://michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/ndakotst.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then UND quit!

Now it can be argued they dont really have a football team!

[JBB]

You know, there is a certain appeal to beating NDSU to FBS. The WAC needs teams like UND, for the BSC, its optional. If UND were to go to the WAC, it may pull along teams such as Montana, Montana State and even the other 3 Dakotas. THAT would be an interesting WAC along with Idaho, Denver, Utah State. It may also be a home for some of UND's olympic sports that the BSC doesn't provide. And last, with Denver already there, it could be the beginning of a new post Big Ten Hockey hockey conference. http://www.siouxsports.com

I figured they would turn to the WAC. Unfortunately its in the NCAA and offers no refuge. But really, they have taken it further than I thought!

Now they have the entire core of the BSC rallying around them and carrying the banner of Fighting Sioux to the WAC!! Just their peers though. Not the rest of the conference that Montana was so disgusted with that UND had to be invited to the BSC to offer Montana an academic peer to keep them happy.

[EWURanger]

You know, there is a certain appeal to beating NDSU to FBS. The WAC needs teams like UND, for the BSC, its optional. If UND were to go to the WAC, it may pull along teams such as Montana, Montana State and even the other 3 Dakotas. THAT would be an interesting WAC along with Idaho, Denver, Utah State. It may also be a home for some of UND's olympic sports that the BSC doesn't provide. And last, with Denver already there, it could be the beginning of a new post Big Ten Hockey hockey conference. http://www.siouxsports.com

I figured they would turn to the WAC. Unfortunately its in the NCAA and offers no refuge. But really, they have taken it further than I thought!

Now they have the entire core of the BSC rallying around them and carrying the banner of Fighting Sioux to the WAC!! Just their peers though. Not the rest of the conference that Montana was so disgusted with that UND had to be invited to the BSC to offer Montana an academic peer to keep them happy.

Any links to this discussion over there? I'm interested in reading some of this.

[AZGrizFan]

Since 1980 NDSU is 16-8 vs. und http://michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/ndakotst.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then UND quit!

Now it can be argued they dont really have a football team!

And since 1993 NDSU is 3-10 against UND. Your point is moot.

[LDopaPDX]

Aynone who's been involved in athletics administration can tell you this... The NCAA always wants to toot their own horn but never have any real power when it comes to actually following through. The NCAA has no power to enforce a "name ban," especially one this arbitrary, on any school. UND has a right to use whatever nickname they wish. If this ever goes to court, the real laws of the United States--- especially a law so important to the founding of the nation that it was titled the FIRST amendment--- is going to trump an NCAA by-law banning the use of nicknames deemed inappropriate by their organization.

Perhaps the NCAA can get involved in some real issues like pay-for-play at places like Auburn, Ohio State, and Oregon and stop worring about something so stupid that it's hardly even noticed around the country.

[LDopaPDX]

I think that if the schools don’t stand up to the NCAA now it is going to be problems in the future. This issue is outside of the scope of the NCAA. The school could argue this infringes on freedom of speech, or a possible discrimination law suit against the NCAA school. If they make them change it because they don’t have perdition from the Sioux Notre Dam needs to change their name, I am Irish it offends me. This is an issue that needs to be fought.

I agree completely, BTW. The notion of a school--- especially a Catholic school--- using a nickname that reinforces the negative stereotype of the drunken, brawling Irishmen is a LOT more offensive than a team named after an Indian tribe from their locale. The Irish even have a short squatty leprechaun-looking guy with his fists in the air as a logo! Anyone using common sense would see one as worse than the other, as long as they were one of those "predisposed to being continuous offended" type of people... yet there is no outcry to change Notre Dame's name by the NCAA.

[Catattack]

Sure, UND could take the NCAA to court in a long drawn out case and maybe win, but they would not have a conference to play in while that is going on.

Seems like if the one tribe could actually vote that this would be put to rest.

It also good to see that some UND supporters think that if they joined the WAC that they would "pull along" UM and MSU.