citdog wrote:JoltinJoe wrote:
Better pitching? That's debatable. But Mantle's .298 is a higher average for Mantle's era than Jones' .304 is in this era.
Mantle's career on-base percentage, however, is 18 points higher than Jones. In fact, Mantle's career OBP is over .420 and he walked 1,733 times in his career. It is remarkable that he was passed that many times given that Yogi Berra batted behind him for most of Mantle's career.
Jones' has 28 more RBI -- with over 300 more career at bats. Not a real productive use of those 300+ at bats.
There is no comparison. Mantle is superior to Jones.
the blind will not see and the deaf will not hear EVEN WHEN THEY ARE MAKING MY ARGUMENT FOR ME. The fact that Chipper has a higher average, more rbi's, fewer k's, and 200 more doubles MEANS THAT THERE IS A COMPARISON AND THAT LARRY WAYNE JONES, JR IS IN THE SAME CLASS AND EXCEEDS MR. MANTLE IN SOME VERY IMPORTANT OFFENSIVE STATS. YOU CAN CHOOSE NOT TO SEE THE FACTS IF YOU LIKE.
You continue to miss the point. Mantle played in an era of fewer runs, lower averages, and MUCH larger ballparks. So comparing Jones's 1990s-2000s numbers against Mantle's 1950's-1960s numbers TELLS US NOTHING, other than, despite the advantage Jones has had in playing in an era of much higher offense, the best Jones could do was score some negligible advantages in some career offensive totals, while still trailing Mantle in many more categories (despite the offensive advantages of Jones's era).
When compared against their peers, Mantle is/was vastly superior to Jones. You can tell that by the fact that Mantle led his league in OPS+ eight times in his 18-year career.
Here's a list of the top 100 seasons of all time, measured by
unadjusted OPS. You will notice that the list is heavy with modern players (although Chipper Jones doesn't have a single season on this list).
What may not strike you immediately is that the ONLY player whose career starts in the offensive-starved 1950s who has multiple seasons on this list is Mickey Mantle (with four!). Mays has NO season on the list. Aaron has NO season on this list. In fact, there is only ONE other player whose career started in the 1950s who has a season on this list -- Norm Cash (1961).
Thus, even though playing in the offensively-starved 1950s and 1960s, Mantle was QUITE REMARKABLY managing to score
unadjusted OPS scores which rank as high as those put up by the "stars" of the steroid era.
And even on an
unadjusted basis, Mantle's career OPS is considerably higher than Jones's.
Mantle's superiority to modern players becomes apparent when his OPS score is adjusted for his era. Thus, Mantle scores a pretty remarkable OPS+ of 172 for his overall career (100 being the mean).
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hitting/hiops2.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
