Do you consider Youngstown State an elite FCS program?

[93henfan]

I guess I never answered the original question posed in this thread.

No, Youngstown is no longer an elite FCS program.

They are, however, a historical power.

[DJH]

Yeah, I don't get that shot at UNI either. I thought you had a legit point.

A legit point?

Delaware has six national championships, no explanation necessary. DJH's point was idiotic.

Yeah, there is no explanation necessary. Yet there is a whole page of UD fans trying to convince people that they have an extra national title or two.

[93henfan]

A legit point?

Delaware has six national championships, no explanation necessary. DJH's point was idiotic.

Yeah, there is no explanation necessary. Yet there is a whole page of UD fans trying to convince people that they have an extra national title or two.

Not really. We have six. There's nothing really to dispute.

The discussion about the various terminologies for the level just below the big boys over the years is a completely separate discussion that you're trying to fuse into a how many championships Delaware has.

Again, we have six. We are six-time national champions in football. I say again: six. Has a nice ring to it.

[Skjellyfetti]

Not really. We have six. There's nothing really to dispute.

The discussion about the various terminologies for the level just below the big boys over the years is a completely separate discussion that you're trying to fuse into a how many championships Delaware has.

Again, we have six. We are six-time national champions in football. I say again: six. Has a nice ring to it.

So, if NDSU fans started spouting off about their 8 national titles... you wouldn't question it in the least?

NDSU. eight-time national champions in football. Elite FCS program for sure.

[Saint3333]

Your arguing name changes will only help my point of view as Small College was renamed D2.

Small College wasn't renamed anything, it went away when I-AA was formed. Some of the teams that were Small College went D2 and some went I-AA in 1978. Many more went from D2 to I-AA in '79 and '80. The first two years of I-AA were nothing compared to what they were a few years later. We've said, don't count the '79 title.

This isn't accurate.

In 1972 there was a Major College Division and a Small College Division

In 1973 these two divisions changed names to Division I and Division II

In 1978 Division I was split into Division 1A and Division 1AA.

[93henfan]

Not really. We have six. There's nothing really to dispute.

The discussion about the various terminologies for the level just below the big boys over the years is a completely separate discussion that you're trying to fuse into a how many championships Delaware has.

Again, we have six. We are six-time national champions in football. I say again: six. Has a nice ring to it.

So, if NDSU fans started spouting off about their 8 national titles... you wouldn't question it in the least?

NDSU. eight-time national champions in football. Elite FCS program for sure.

We're going in circles here. NDSU's titles were all won two levels down from the big boys. Five of Delaware's were won one level down from the big boys, at the level we are all fans of here on this board. One of Delaware's was won while Delaware was ramping up schollies to transition to D-IAA (the period 78-80), and as was mentioned previously by another poster, we beat one of the fledgling I-AA semifinalists during one of those regular seasons. Quite simply, D-II in 78 and 79 was likely better than D-IAA. Sorry to throw so many facts at you. I realize you have a hard time processing historical data.

[93henfan]

Small College wasn't renamed anything, it went away when I-AA was formed. Some of the teams that were Small College went D2 and some went I-AA in 1978. Many more went from D2 to I-AA in '79 and '80. The first two years of I-AA were nothing compared to what they were a few years later. We've said, don't count the '79 title.

This isn't accurate.

In 1972 there was a Major College Division and a Small College Division

In 1973 these two divisions changed names to Division I and Division II

In 1978 Division I was split into Division 1A and Division 1AA.

The only thing inaccurate about 89's summary was that he skipped over the fact that small college (also called "college" as opposed to the larger "university" division) went away when D-2 was formed. 89 failed to account for the fact that D-2 came before D-IAA was formed six years later. Not really that big of an omission, but an omission nonetheless.

[JBB]

Not really. We have six. There's nothing really to dispute.

The discussion about the various terminologies for the level just below the big boys over the years is a completely separate discussion that you're trying to fuse into a how many championships Delaware has.

Again, we have six. We are six-time national champions in football. I say again: six. Has a nice ring to it.

So, if NDSU fans started spouting off about their 8 national titles... you wouldn't question it in the least?

NDSU. eight-time national champions in football. Elite FCS program for sure.

The NDSU BISON score a 23/24 out of 25 on the "Elite College Football Register".

[FargoBison]

So, if NDSU fans started spouting off about their 8 national titles... you wouldn't question it in the least?

NDSU. eight-time national champions in football. Elite FCS program for sure.

We're going in circles here. NDSU's titles were all won two levels down from the big boys. Five of Delaware's were won one level down from the big boys, at the level we are all fans of here on this board. One of Delaware's was won while Delaware was ramping up schollies to transition to D-IAA (the period 78-80), and as was mentioned previously by another poster, we beat one of the fledgling I-AA semifinalists during one of those regular seasons. Quite simply, D-II in 78 and 79 was likely better than D-IAA. Sorry to throw so many facts at you. I realize you have a hard time processing historical data.

You do realize NDSU has five DII titles(1983, 1985, 1986, 1988 and 1990) and three college division titles(1965, 1968 and 1969). So going with your logic three of them are one level down, NDSU clinched two of those titles by beating Montana and Grambling in bowl games.

[Skjellyfetti]

three college division titles(1965, 1968 and 1969). So going with your logic three of them are one level down, NDSU clinched two of those titles by beating Montana and Grambling in bowl games.

Exactly.

College Division Titles only count if you won the Boardwalk Bowl en route to the title.

[93henfan]

I honestly don't follow NDSU history much. It's good to know that three were won at the second level.

[guinzone]

This is why we are elite... Boy I can't wait for these days to return to Youngstown under WOLF!

http://letsgoguins.com/multimedia/1993- ... title-game

[Thumper 76]

This is why we were elite... Boy I can't wait for these days to return to Youngstown under WOLF!

http://letsgoguins.com/multimedia/1993- ... title-game

FIFY

[Saint3333]

This isn't accurate.

In 1972 there was a Major College Division and a Small College Division

In 1973 these two divisions changed names to Division I and Division II

In 1978 Division I was split into Division 1A and Division 1AA.

The only thing inaccurate about 89's summary was that he skipped over the fact that small college (also called "college" as opposed to the larger "university" division) went away when D-2 was formed. 89 failed to account for the fact that D-2 came before D-IAA was formed six years later. Not really that big of an omission, but an omission nonetheless.

Small College Division "Went away" as in became Division II.

Division II did not become D-1AA, Division I split into D-1A and D-1AA in 1978-1982.

[93henfan]

The only thing inaccurate about 89's summary was that he skipped over the fact that small college (also called "college" as opposed to the larger "university" division) went away when D-2 was formed. 89 failed to account for the fact that D-2 came before D-IAA was formed six years later. Not really that big of an omission, but an omission nonetheless.

Small College Division "Went away" as in became Division II.

Division II did not become D-1AA, Division I split into D-1A and D-1AA in 1978-1982.

Precisely.

So the progression of the second level of college football was Small College>D-2>D-IAA>FCS. Delaware has played at this same level every year except 78 and 79. We have embraced this level of football for well over 60 years and have a sustained record of success, with championships in four of those decades and our last three coaches going to the Hall of Fame.

Agree with everything you said.

[GannonFan]

Small College Division "Went away" as in became Division II.

Division II did not become D-1AA, Division I split into D-1A and D-1AA in 1978-1982.

Precisely.

So the progression of the second level of college football was Small College>D-2>D-IAA>FCS. Delaware has played at this same level every year except 78 and 79. We have embraced this level of football for well over 60 years and have a sustained record of success, with championships in four of those decades and our last three coaches going to the Hall of Fame.

Agree with everything you said.

It's amazing, Saint keeps using the same exact arguments we have used, but then fails to come to the logical conclusion. As 89 said, it's apparent that some people are either really, really young or they just weren't football fans and paying attention in the '70's and early '80's.

[Saint3333]

Small College Division "Went away" as in became Division II.

Division II did not become D-1AA, Division I split into D-1A and D-1AA in 1978-1982.

Precisely.

So the progression of the second level of college football was Small College>D-2>D-IAA>FCS.

No, inaccurate yet again.

Small College -> D2
Major College -> D1 > D1A & D1AA

[GannonFan]

Precisely.

So the progression of the second level of college football was Small College>D-2>D-IAA>FCS.

No, inaccurate yet again.

Small College -> D2
Major College -> D1 > D1A & D1AA

Only true if you have no knowledge of how I-AA came into being. Kudos to you!

[Saint3333]

I have knowledge of ASU being Division I from 1974-1980 and beating Wake, South Carolina, and ECU in one season before we chose to go down to Division 1AA. Brilliant move on our part.

You are trying to state that the FCS is D2, which it isn't.

[GannonFan]

I have knowledge of ASU being Division I from 1974-1980 and beating Wake, South Carolina, and ECU in one season before we chose to go down to Division 1AA. Brilliant move on our part.

You are trying to state that the FCS is D2, which it isn't.

Nonsense, no one is claiming that D2 today is FCS today. Only claiming, and still not hearing any evidence to the contrary, that FCS and I-AA and pre-1978 D2 and pre-1974 Small College were all the same - i.e., the next level down from the highest level of football.

[Saint3333]

Drink your coffee, enjoy your D2 titles. I'll enjoy my D1 titles which are greater than D2 titles, which is my argument from the beginning.

[GannonFan]

Drink your coffee, enjoy your D2 titles. I'll enjoy my D1 titles which are greater than D2 titles, which is my argument from the beginning.

Oh, I understand your argument from the beginning is to be blind and naive about the past, no confusion there. I understand that label changes are probably confusing for you. It's cool, bro.

[Saint3333]

To each his own, UD fans think D2 titles count, everyone else doesn't. As usual the UD fans think they are right even when the rest of the world disagrees... Enjoy that bubble you live in.

[JBB]

To each his own, UD fans think D2 titles count, everyone else doesn't. As usual the UD fans think they are right even when the rest of the world disagrees... Enjoy that bubble you live in.

Thats simply not correct. A lot of people agree with the UD fans. Count NDSU fans among them.

[AZGrizFan]

To each his own, UD fans think D2 titles count, everyone else doesn't. As usual the UD fans think they are right even when the rest of the world disagrees... Enjoy that bubble you live in.

Thats simply not correct. A lot of people agree with the UD fans. Count NDSU fans among them.

Christ, you're stupid. At least Delaware's D-II titles were won when D-II was the next level down from D-I, whereas YOUR D-II titles were won when it was TWO levels down from D-I. Not even comparable, Einstein.