Boise State vs. Georgia

[rebla 49er]

The SEC has 7 0f the 13 BCS championships. No other league has more than two. The SEC has never lost in a BCS championship game.

They've done very well, yes. But there is a kind of odd circular reasoning here because you need to get placed into a BCS game in the first place. Ohio State always makes BCS games because they are the biggest $ guarantee of any program (along with Texas) for ticket sales.

Also, I think there is an over-emphasis on the top of the conference. I've seen journalists line up the Pac-10 and SEC and they go #1 SEC vs. #1 Pac Ten all the way down. But this isn't fair because the SEC has 12 teams, while the Pac-10 only had 10.

Sagarin has often ranked the Pac Ten above the SEC.

All I'm saying is be careful of:

[JohnStOnge]

Sagarin has often ranked the Pac Ten above the SEC.

I don't know exactly what "often" means but the Sagarin web site goes back to 1998 and the SEC finished higher than the Pac 10 in 9 of the 13 rating sets at the ends of the 1998 - 2010 seasons.

I do think the Pac 10 is a tough conference though; much tougher than most SEC fans think. I've posted before about how the Pac 10 has had the better of it in head to head games with the SEC during the BCS era and that title game last year came down to Auburn getting big yards on a fluke play and getting a field goal at the end.

But Boise State hasn't been playing in the Pac 10 either. Boise State prepares all summer for one BCS league opponent that means its whole season. Then at bowl time it has a month or so to get all fired up and prepare, sometimes, for another BCS league opponent. They don't go through the kind of grind PAC 10 or SEC teams go through during their conference schedules.

BTW, the BCS league conference records in all BCS bowls are as follows:

SEC 15-6 (0.714)
Pac 10 (now 12) 9-5 (0.643)
Big East 6-7 (0.462)
Big 10 10-12 (0.455)
Big 12 8-10 (0.444)
ACC 2-11 (0.154)

[JohnStOnge]

They've done very well, yes. But there is a kind of odd circular reasoning here because you need to get placed into a BCS game in the first place.

I agree that we would have a different set of I-A/FBS national champs if there were a playoff system and that the SEC has an advantage in terms of perception with respect to getting placed into BCS championship games. But it's not circular reasoning. Circular reasonaing would be something like, "We know the SEC is best because the SEC champ is always national champ and the SEC is always national champ because we know the SEC is best."

That's not what happens. The SEC champ gets into the BCS title games but they still have to win them when they get there. And they're 7-0 in those title games. Every BCS league has sent teams to title games but none of them have gone without at least one loss in those games.

Yeah, there is kind of a "feedback." The system puts SEC teams into title games then they win them and that validates the preference for putting them in there.

The thing is, though, I'm pretty sure that it's not just the polls that put them there. I"m pretty sure that every time the SEC has gotten a team into the title game the power ratings component of the BCS ratings had them as one of the top two.

[alvin kayak]

But it's not circular reasoning. Circular reasonaing would be something like, "We know the SEC is best because the SEC champ is always national champ and the SEC is always national champ because we know the SEC is best."

Yeah, there is kind of a "feedback." The system puts SEC teams into title games then they win them and that validates the preference for putting them in there.

Oh, Good Lord.

[tampajag]

Should be an interesting game, Boise loses some playmakers at WR but they still have the RB Martin and of course Moore is still running the offense. Right now I'd say Bosie by 14.

[DJH]

UGA done got whipped...

[MrTitleist]

Boise apparently can't hang w/ the SEC either..

[JohnStOnge]

Boise apparently can't hang w/ the SEC either..

My guess is it's going to be a long year in the SEC for Georgia. If you can't do better than that against a team of Boise State's talent level you've got problems trying to compete in the SEC because Boise State would have a lower than average talent level in that conference.

[Grizalltheway]

Boise apparently can't hang w/ the SEC either..

My guess is it's going to be a long year in the SEC for Georgia. If you can't do better than that against a team of Boise State's talent level you've got problems trying to compete in the SEC because Boise State would have a lower than average talent level in that conference.

What a shocker: St. AlwaysWrong finds a way to completely discredit Boise, even after they've beaten teams from major conferences 3 years running.

[DJH]

Not just "teams from major conferences". These are elite teams from major conferences. Oklahoma, Oregon (X2), Oregon St, Georgia, Virginia Tech, and TCU.

[AZGrizFan]

Boise apparently can't hang w/ the SEC either..

My guess is it's going to be a long year in the SEC for Georgia. If you can't do better than that against a team of Boise State's talent level you've got problems trying to compete in the SEC because Boise State would have a lower than average talent level in that conference.

Considering the "talent level", Georgia looked better against BSU than UT did against Montana. Just sayin'....

[eagleskins]

Newsflash. Boise has better talent than Georgia. Faster across the board. Defense is not even close man for man.

[JohnStOnge]

Not just "teams from major conferences". These are elite teams from major conferences. Oklahoma, Oregon (X2), Oregon St, Georgia, Virginia Tech, and TCU.

Georgia is an elite program in the SEC but let's not forget that the Bulldogs were coming off a year in which they finished 3-5 in the SEC last year and two of the wins were over Vanderbilt and Kentucky. The other was over a down Tennessee program. They struggled last year and based on what happened this past weekend I certainly wouldn't be surprised if they struggle this year as well. I was HOPING last year was an abberation so I wouldn't have to hear the Boise State hype all year as they play nobody else (TCU looks down too) but what happened this past weekend suggests that hope was probably in vain.

[JohnStOnge]

Newsflash. Boise has better talent than Georgia. Faster across the board. Defense is not even close man for man.

I don't think so. But we'll have to see what happens in the NFL draft over the next four years. My bet would be Georgia has more players drafted. Boise State's talent level as measured by NFL player production is comparable to programs like Vanderbilt and Kentucky. They do a remarkable job of winning big games with teams that have more talent than they do. But they would be below average in terms of talent level in the SEC and any other BCS league except maybe the Big East.

[JohnStOnge]

As of now if you look at the NFL players by college website at http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this is how Boise State would fit in among SEC teams:

LSU 39
Georgia 36
Tennessee 36
Florida 31
Auburn 28
Alabama 23
South Carolina 22
Mississippi 21
Arkansas 15
Mississippi State 15
Boise State 14
Kentucky 11
Vanderbilt 6

Vanderbilt has slipped some since the last time I looked. Also, there is a delay between what Boise State has now and NFL numbers maybe five five years from now along with draft picks over the next four years will tell more of the story. But I think it's pretty clear that Boise State would be below average in terms of talent level in the SEC and I'm confident that we wouldn't be talking about them being in consideration for a BCS championship game appearance if they were in that conference and having to play 8 games a year against SEC teams over something like a 9 to 10 week period each year instead of having all summer to get all pumped up and prepared to face one BCS league team to open the season then a month or so to get all pumped up and prepared to face another one in a bowl.

I'd love it if there were playoffs with at least 16 teams so that Boise State would have its opportunity to try to go through 4 playoff caliber teams in a row. But given the system there is no way anybody should be even talking about them as a potential BCS championship game participant.

[Grizalltheway]

Sorry, but Boise State is going to get manhandled. I am very much not looking forward to hearing UGA fans crow about how good they think they are after they stomp a mudhole in Boise. At least they will get a reality check the next week against USC.

Also, I despise the BCS, but making a paper tiger out of BSU will not do any good for the cause. Why exactly are they a preseason top 10, anyways? Because they lost their best receivers? Because they lost to a Nevada team that barely beat a mediocre ACC team in a bowl game? Because the best team they beat last year lost to an FCS team that didn't even make the playoffs and got destroyed by Stanford? Because four years ago they beat an Oklahoma team notorious for choking in big games? East coast bias? What is it about them?

Oh wow, just noticed this gem. How does that massive serving of crow taste?

[rebla 49er]

Newsflash. Boise has better talent than Georgia. Faster across the board. Defense is not even close man for man.

It depends on the position. I think UGA has way better special teams talent: Walsh, Boykin (RET), Butler are some of the best in all college football. Boise's passing game just clicked...Kellen Moore is not a pro player, but he has pro instincts. He's so casual that it's almost scary. Boise was more physical overall, and the defense, you are right, won the game. They're showing that Oklahoma-Fiesta Bowl win was not a fluke.

[tampajag]

As of now if you look at the NFL players by college website at http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this is how Boise State would fit in among SEC teams:

LSU 39
Georgia 36
Tennessee 36
Florida 31
Auburn 28
Alabama 23
South Carolina 22
Mississippi 21
Arkansas 15
Mississippi State 15
Boise State 14
Kentucky 11
Vanderbilt 6

Vanderbilt has slipped some since the last time I looked. Also, there is a delay between what Boise State has now and NFL numbers maybe five five years from now along with draft picks over the next four years will tell more of the story. But I think it's pretty clear that Boise State would be below average in terms of talent level in the SEC and I'm confident that we wouldn't be talking about them being in consideration for a BCS championship game appearance if they were in that conference and having to play 8 games a year against SEC teams over something like a 9 to 10 week period each year instead of having all summer to get all pumped up and prepared to face one BCS league team to open the season then a month or so to get all pumped up and prepared to face another one in a bowl.

I'd love it if there were playoffs with at least 16 teams so that Boise State would have its opportunity to try to go through 4 playoff caliber teams in a row. But given the system there is no way anybody should be even talking about them as a potential BCS championship game participant.

"None of those guys walked through the doors of the Georgia Dome."

[89Hen]

As of now if you look at the NFL players by college website at http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this is how Boise State would fit in among SEC teams:

I'd love it if there were playoffs with at least 16 teams so that Boise State would have its opportunity to try to go through 4 playoff caliber teams in a row. But given the system there is no way anybody should be even talking about them as a potential BCS championship game participant.

Here's how the four semifinalists stack up with a few teams...

California (PA) 5
Maine 5
Hampton 4
Hofstra 4
West Texas A&M 4
Bethune-Cookman 3
Grand Valley State 3
Howard 3
Idaho State 3
Northern Colorado 3
Portland State 3
Stillman 3
Texas A&M Kingsville 3
Villanova 3
Delaware 2
Eastern Washington 2
Georgia Southern 1

[Grizalltheway]

As of now if you look at the NFL players by college website at http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this is how Boise State would fit in among SEC teams:

I'd love it if there were playoffs with at least 16 teams so that Boise State would have its opportunity to try to go through 4 playoff caliber teams in a row. But given the system there is no way anybody should be even talking about them as a potential BCS championship game participant.

Here's how the four semifinalists stack up with a few teams...

California (PA) 5
Maine 5
Hampton 4
Hofstra 4
West Texas A&M 4
Bethune-Cookman 3
Grand Valley State 3
Howard 3
Idaho State 3
Northern Colorado 3
Portland State 3
Stillman 3
Texas A&M Kingsville 3
Villanova 3
Delaware 2
Eastern Washington 2
Georgia Southern 1

Yeah, pretty funny that St Wrong resorts to rambling about how many NFL players each school has, rather than manning up and admitting that Boise has proven they can hang with the big boys.

[89Hen]

Yeah, pretty funny that St Wrong resorts to rambling about how many NFL players each school has, rather than manning up and admitting that Boise has proven they can hang with the big boys.

It's a meaningless gauge. Back when the SWAC used to participate in the playoffs, they sent a TON more players to the NFL than any other I-AA conference. They were also 0-19 in the playoffs.

[BlueHen86]

Newsflash. Boise has better talent than Georgia. Faster across the board. Defense is not even close man for man.

I don't think so. But we'll have to see what happens in the NFL draft over the next four years. My bet would be Georgia has more players drafted. Boise State's talent level as measured by NFL player production is comparable to programs like Vanderbilt and Kentucky. They do a remarkable job of winning big games with teams that have more talent than they do. But they would be below average in terms of talent level in the SEC and any other BCS league except maybe the Big East.

Of course, if Boise joined the SEC they would be able to recruit SEC level talent. If Boise can beat SEC teams with inferior talent, they should be able to win with better talent (assuming that the SEC does have better talent than Boise right now).

[49RFootballNow]

http://vimeo.com/28516169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

http://vimeo.com/28516169

Good stuff!

[JohnStOnge]

Here's how the four semifinalists stack up with a few teams...

California (PA) 5
Maine 5
Hampton 4
Hofstra 4
West Texas A&M 4
Bethune-Cookman 3
Grand Valley State 3
Howard 3
Idaho State 3
Northern Colorado 3
Portland State 3
Stillman 3
Texas A&M Kingsville 3
Villanova 3
Delaware 2
Eastern Washington 2
Georgia Southern 1

It is true that there is not a perfect correlation between NFL player production and overall program talent level. But what you're talking about for all of the teams in the list above is a handful of NFL players. It's not the same as looking at programs that have 20 or 30 or 40 players in the NFL. I do not think a program is going to have a top FBS talent level if you're seeing 14 players from it in the NFL.

All of the teams listed above have a sprinkling of players in the NFL. The biggest difference between any pair is 4. The top producer may have one or two players seeing playing time at some point who is going to get to the NFL and make a regular season roster. The difference between Boise State and the top of the SEC is 25 players.

Let's talk about Maine and Georgia Southern. It always takes time but let's go back to the 2007 season then look at the 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 NFL drafts to get some idea as to how many NFL type players were on each team. The answer is zero; at least in terms of players NFL teams were interested in drafting. Maine has not had a player drafted since 2007 and Georgia Southern hasn't one drafted since 2003.

Now let's look at Boise State and LSU. Boise State had 5 players drafted and LSU had 23 players drafted 2008 through 2011. That situation is not comparable to he one involving Maine and Georgia Southern. With Maine and Georgia Southern, you're talking about two teams that have hardly any NFL caliber players. Most years neither team has any. With Boise State and LSU, you're talking about one team with a small sprinkling of NFL caliber players and one team that is loaded with NFL caliber players.

I wold not be surprised if Boise State beat LSU if the two played one game in a bowl because Boise State would have over a month to prepare and LSU does not have an effective quarterback while Boise State does. But there is no comparison in terms of the overall talent level of the two teams. LSU has WAY more overall talent.

I can't believe you people think that Boise State's talent level is anything like the talent level of most SEC teams; if that's what you think. They have an effective quarterback. Actually they've had a series of effective quarterbacks. They play well together. This year's team is experienced. But they'd be middle of the pack at best in the SEC in terms of overall talent level and probably more like in the bottom tier.