NL Cy Young Winner?

[dbackjon]

Kennedy wins #19

7.2 innings, 1 Run, 0 BB, 11 K


He deserves it.

With a performance like that, why was he removed?

Gave up 3 hits, and the only run in the 8th. No screwing around - gotta get that last out.

[SuperHornet]

Well, the results speak for themselves, but I don't necessarily buy that argument. I've seen WAY too many of those situations where the starter is removed with the rationale of "not letting such an impressive performance go to waste," yet the bullpen proceeds to blow up, either allowing the other team to win or (and in some ways I consider this worse) the closer allows the score to be tied, only to still be the pitcher of record when the team's O gets the GW hit. The closer is there for SAVES, not to steal wins from the starter.

Of course, there's no evidence that this applies in THIS situation.

[AZGrizFan]

Well, the results speak for themselves, but I don't necessarily buy that argument. I've seen WAY too many of those situations where the starter is removed with the rationale of "not letting such an impressive performance go to waste," yet the bullpen proceeds to blow up, either allowing the other team to win or (and in some ways I consider this worse) the closer allows the score to be tied, only to still be the pitcher of record when the team's O gets the GW hit. The closer is there for SAVES, not to steal wins from the starter.

Of course, there's no evidence that this applies in THIS situation.

That exact scenario happened Tuesday to the D-Backs.

[AZGrizFan]

4 pitchers with statistical ranking in parenthesis:

Pitcher A: 15-5 (T-3), 2.56 ERA (5), 182 K's (4), 7 CG (1), 0 SO (T-22), 1.054 WHIP (2), 7.91 K/BB ratio (1)
Pitcher B: 14-7 (5), 2.71 ERA (7), 191 K's (2), 5 CG (2), 5 SO (1), 1.065 WHIP (6), 4.90 K/BB ratio (3)
Pitcher C: 17-4 (1), 3.03 ERA (11), 161 K's (T-7), 1 CG (t-17), 1 SO (T-4), 1.121 WHIP (8), 3.29 K/BB ratio (12)
Pitcher D: 16-5 (2), 2.51 ERA (3), 207 K's (1), 4 CG (3), 2 SO (2), 1.023 WHIP (1), 4.31 K/BB ratio (5)

What say ye?

Updated stats through Sunday:

Pitcher A (Halladay): 16-5, 2.49 ERA, 195 K's, 7 CG, 0 SO, 1.056 WHIP, 7.50 K/BB ratio
Pitcher B (Lee): 16-7, 2.47 ERA, 204 K's, 6 CG, 6 SO, 1.031 WHIP, 5.10 K/BB ratio
Pitcher C (Kennedy): 18-4, 2.96 ERA, 167 K's, 1 CG, 1 SO, 1.117 WHIP, 3.27 K/BB ratio
Pitcher D (Kershaw): 17-5, 2.45 ERA, 222 K's, 5 CG, 2 SO, 1.021 WHIP, 4.44 K/BB ratio

IMHO, Halladay just got passed by Lee for 2nd place behind Kershaw. More K's and SIX shutouts. And at this point I might give him the edge over Kershaw as well....

Kennedy goes to 19-4, 2.90 ERA, 178 K's, 1.11 WHIP with a 7 2/3, 11 K, 0 BB, 7 hit performance tonight. He's making himself hard to ignore with his continued performance. Since 7/3, Kennedy hasn't given up more than 3 ER in a start, and in that time is 11-1 in 12 starts with 19 earned runs given up in 79 2/3 innings (a 2.14 ERA) and 75 K's and only 19 BB's (a K/BB ratio of almost 4.00)....he's only getting better and is making voters sit up and take notice.

[GannonFan]

Updated stats through Sunday:

Pitcher A (Halladay): 16-5, 2.49 ERA, 195 K's, 7 CG, 0 SO, 1.056 WHIP, 7.50 K/BB ratio
Pitcher B (Lee): 16-7, 2.47 ERA, 204 K's, 6 CG, 6 SO, 1.031 WHIP, 5.10 K/BB ratio
Pitcher C (Kennedy): 18-4, 2.96 ERA, 167 K's, 1 CG, 1 SO, 1.117 WHIP, 3.27 K/BB ratio
Pitcher D (Kershaw): 17-5, 2.45 ERA, 222 K's, 5 CG, 2 SO, 1.021 WHIP, 4.44 K/BB ratio

IMHO, Halladay just got passed by Lee for 2nd place behind Kershaw. More K's and SIX shutouts. And at this point I might give him the edge over Kershaw as well....

Kennedy goes to 19-4, 2.90 ERA, 178 K's, 1.11 WHIP with a 7 2/3, 11 K, 0 BB, 7 hit performance tonight. He's making himself hard to ignore with his continued performance. Since 7/3, Kennedy hasn't given up more than 3 ER in a start, and in that time is 11-1 in 12 starts with 19 earned runs given up in 79 2/3 innings (a 2.14 ERA) and 75 K's and only 19 BB's (a K/BB ratio of almost 4.00)....he's only getting better and is making voters sit up and take notice.

Kennedy's had a very, very nice year, and he certainly deserves to be in the conversation for Cy Young. But he hasn't have a chance in hell of winning the award. He's a full half point in ERA higher than the three guys in front of him, he's thrown one CG all year, and his other numbers are all slightly worse than the 3 guys in front of him. And since 7/3, using the date you called out, he's pitched 12 times. Only once did he pitch into the 8th inning, and 5 of those 12 times he faced either the Padres or the Giants, neither of whom are very good offensively. And he only faced 3 teams with winning records (Milw, StL and Phi) and went 2-1 with a 3.38 ERA - not terrible, but not eye-opening either.

Kershaw is by far the better chance for a non-Phillie to win the award. Kennedy's best chance is to be 3rd in the voting. But considering the seasons and the guys in front of him, that's nothing to be ashamed of either.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

Kennedy's had a very, very nice year, and he certainly deserves to be in the conversation for Cy Young. But he hasn't have a chance in hell of winning the award. He's a full half point in ERA higher than the three guys in front of him, he's thrown one CG all year, and his other numbers are all slightly worse than the 3 guys in front of him. And since 7/3, using the date you called out, he's pitched 12 times. Only once did he pitch into the 8th inning, and 5 of those 12 times he faced either the Padres or the Giants, neither of whom are very good offensively. And he only faced 3 teams with winning records (Milw, StL and Phi) and went 2-1 with a 3.38 ERA - not terrible, but not eye-opening either.

Kershaw is by far the better chance for a non-Phillie to win the award. Kennedy's best chance is to be 3rd in the voting. But considering the seasons and the guys in front of him, that's nothing to be ashamed of either.

I think an argument could be made for the Phillies #3 pitcher over Kennedy.

14-7, 2.60 ERA, 3 CG, .95 WHIP, 4.28 K/BB, 171 K

[AZGrizFan]

Kennedy's had a very, very nice year, and he certainly deserves to be in the conversation for Cy Young. But he hasn't have a chance in hell of winning the award. He's a full half point in ERA higher than the three guys in front of him, he's thrown one CG all year, and his other numbers are all slightly worse than the 3 guys in front of him. And since 7/3, using the date you called out, he's pitched 12 times. Only once did he pitch into the 8th inning, and 5 of those 12 times he faced either the Padres or the Giants, neither of whom are very good offensively. And he only faced 3 teams with winning records (Milw, StL and Phi) and went 2-1 with a 3.38 ERA - not terrible, but not eye-opening either.

Kershaw is by far the better chance for a non-Phillie to win the award. Kennedy's best chance is to be 3rd in the voting. But considering the seasons and the guys in front of him, that's nothing to be ashamed of either.

I think an argument could be made for the Phillies #3 pitcher over Kennedy.

14-7, 2.60 ERA, 3 CG, .95 WHIP, 4.28 K/BB, 171 K

My only point is that Kennedy continues to close the gap. And you can complain about the level of competition he's faced (SF in particular), but the last two times he's shut down SF, he's gone up against---AND BEAT---Lincecum head to head.

Halladay has begun to come back to the pack a little bit with only 3 wins in his last six starts (with a 2.67 ERA and 1.24 WHIP). He's pitched into the 8th inning only 3 times and in his 11 starts since 7/1 andhe's faced juggernauts like SD, PIT, Chicago, LA, WASH, FLA...see, same shit different pitcher...in fact, in Halladay's first SEVEN starts of the year, he faced exactly ONE team that has gone on to be anything decent....starts against Houston, Mets, Washington, Milwaukee, SD, Mets, Washington. He went 6-1 in those 7 starts. Guess which team he lost to? Halladay has built his resume on the backs of a ton of mediocre teams, just like everybody else in the hunt.

And any anybody who would vote for Hamels over Kennedy is a pure homer.

Once again, when a team has FOUR "Aces", it's pretty easy to have no pressure. And Philly started this season with four #1 starters in their rotation. Arizona started the year with ZERO Aces in their rotation.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

And any anybody who would vote for Hamels over Kennedy is a pure homer.

Better ERA, more CG, best WHIP in the NL - how do you figure? Your "because the rest of the staff is so good" argument doesn't hold water. I don't see how a pitchers performance in any game has anything to do with what the pitchers in the previous four games did.

[GannonFan]

I think an argument could be made for the Phillies #3 pitcher over Kennedy.

14-7, 2.60 ERA, 3 CG, .95 WHIP, 4.28 K/BB, 171 K

My only point is that Kennedy continues to close the gap. And you can complain about the level of competition he's faced (SF in particular), but the last two times he's shut down SF, he's gone up against---AND BEAT---Lincecum head to head.

Halladay has begun to come back to the pack a little bit with only 3 wins in his last six starts (with a 2.67 ERA and 1.24 WHIP). He's pitched into the 8th inning only 3 times and in his 11 starts since 7/1 andhe's faced juggernauts like SD, PIT, Chicago, LA, WASH, FLA...see, same **** different pitcher...in fact, in Halladay's first SEVEN starts of the year, he faced exactly ONE team that has gone on to be anything decent....starts against Houston, Mets, Washington, Milwaukee, SD, Mets, Washington. He went 6-1 in those 7 starts. Guess which team he lost to? Halladay has built his resume on the backs of a ton of mediocre teams, just like everybody else in the hunt.

And any anybody who would vote for Hamels over Kennedy is a pure homer.

Once again, when a team has FOUR "Aces", it's pretty easy to have no pressure. And Philly started this season with four #1 starters in their rotation. Arizona started the year with ZERO Aces in their rotation.

Geez, so much words for so little - Kennedy finishing any higher than 4th would be an upset, and he has no prayer to finish higher than 3rd. It's between Halladay, Lee, and Kershaw, and all 3 have significantly better numbers than Kennedy. Kennedy's best case is his record, and as King Feliz showed last year, that's the weakest number to have. It only gets you into the conversation, and that's why Kennedy is no better than an upset 3rd place finish. He'll get his chance to make up for that when he pitches against Halladay in Game 1 of the NLDS. I'm not sure he'll make another start against anyone this year after that, though.

[AZGrizFan]

My only point is that Kennedy continues to close the gap. And you can complain about the level of competition he's faced (SF in particular), but the last two times he's shut down SF, he's gone up against---AND BEAT---Lincecum head to head.

Halladay has begun to come back to the pack a little bit with only 3 wins in his last six starts (with a 2.67 ERA and 1.24 WHIP). He's pitched into the 8th inning only 3 times and in his 11 starts since 7/1 andhe's faced juggernauts like SD, PIT, Chicago, LA, WASH, FLA...see, same **** different pitcher...in fact, in Halladay's first SEVEN starts of the year, he faced exactly ONE team that has gone on to be anything decent....starts against Houston, Mets, Washington, Milwaukee, SD, Mets, Washington. He went 6-1 in those 7 starts. Guess which team he lost to? Halladay has built his resume on the backs of a ton of mediocre teams, just like everybody else in the hunt.

And any anybody who would vote for Hamels over Kennedy is a pure homer.

Once again, when a team has FOUR "Aces", it's pretty easy to have no pressure. And Philly started this season with four #1 starters in their rotation. Arizona started the year with ZERO Aces in their rotation.

Geez, so much words for so little - Kennedy finishing any higher than 4th would be an upset, and he has no prayer to finish higher than 3rd. It's between Halladay, Lee, and Kershaw, and all 3 have significantly better numbers than Kennedy. Kennedy's best case is his record, and as King Feliz showed last year, that's the weakest number to have. It only gets you into the conversation, and that's why Kennedy is no better than an upset 3rd place finish. He'll get his chance to make up for that when he pitches against Halladay in Game 1 of the NLDS. I'm not sure he'll make another start against anyone this year after that, though.

I'll take that bet.

[dbackjon]

Hmm - you weern't calling SF weak last year, or earlier this year when the Philly Phans were dreading playing them again in the post season.

[GannonFan]

Hmm - you weern't calling SF weak last year, or earlier this year when the Philly Phans were dreading playing them again in the post season.

I would still dread playing them now, but not because of their lineup. And they were weak last year, and even weaker this year, lineup/offense-wise. I'm sure the Phils could pitch great and put up huge stats - I'd be worried about the offense scoring enough to win. So from a Cy Young perspective, playing the Giants is great - helps the ERA, the WHIP, SO/BB ratio, and a ton of other things that go into deciding the Cy Young award. Do you actually disagree with that?

[bluehenbillk]

Hmm - you weern't calling SF weak last year, or earlier this year when the Philly Phans were dreading playing them again in the post season.

The Giants had a heckuva pitching staff last year & do again this year. Lincecum & Cain have given the Phils fits. None of the other NL teams that will be in the playoffs come close to matching up with the Phils in that area. Phils fans are only obsessed with one six-letter word nowadays. P __ R A D __

[AZGrizFan]

Hmm - you weern't calling SF weak last year, or earlier this year when the Philly Phans were dreading playing them again in the post season.

The Giants had a heckuva pitching staff last year & do again this year. Lincecum & Cain have given the Phils fits. None of the other NL teams that will be in the playoffs come close to matching up with the Phils in that area. Phils fans are only obsessed with one six-letter word nowadays. P __ R A D __

Ian Kennedy's last two victories against SF are against Lincecum and Cain.

[GannonFan]

The Giants had a heckuva pitching staff last year & do again this year. Lincecum & Cain have given the Phils fits. None of the other NL teams that will be in the playoffs come close to matching up with the Phils in that area. Phils fans are only obsessed with one six-letter word nowadays. P __ R A D __

Ian Kennedy's last two victories against SF are against Lincecum and Cain.

Super. Like I said, wins gets you into the conversation, where Kennedy rightfully is. Now how does he stack up against the other 3 in all the other categories? Heck, let's make this easy - what categories is he #1 in?

[AZGrizFan]

Ian Kennedy's last two victories against SF are against Lincecum and Cain.

Super. Like I said, wins gets you into the conversation, where Kennedy rightfully is. Now how does he stack up against the other 3 in all the other categories? Heck, let's make this easy - what categories is he #1 in?

You takin' my bet or not, buttnugget?

[dbackjon]

Ian Kennedy's last two victories against SF are against Lincecum and Cain.

Super. Like I said, wins gets you into the conversation, where Kennedy rightfully is. Now how does he stack up against the other 3 in all the other categories? Heck, let's make this easy - what categories is he #1 in?

Wins

[bulldog10jw]

Wins

I don't know, Jon. What do wins have to do with any of this.

[AZGrizFan]

Wins

I don't know, Jon. What do wins have to do with any of this.

Not to mention there's a very real possibility he's the ONLY 20 game winner in the NL this year.

[GannonFan]

I don't know, Jon. What do wins have to do with any of this.

Not to mention there's a very real possibility he's the ONLY 20 game winner in the NL this year.

Geez, you guys are starting to sound like Joltin Joe, are you sure he hasn't stolen your passwords???? Ask CC how much wins are worth when it comes Cy Young time. Seem to remember that CC was the ONLY 20 game winner in the AL last year, and all it got him was 3rd place in the Cy Young voting. Hmmm, that sounds familiar...

[dbackjon]

Halladay and Kershaw pitch tonight.

It is in the Dbacks best interest that both win tonight

[dbackjon]

Not to mention there's a very real possibility he's the ONLY 20 game winner in the NL this year.

Geez, you guys are starting to sound like Joltin Joe, are you sure he hasn't stolen your passwords???? Ask CC how much wins are worth when it comes Cy Young time. Seem to remember that CC was the ONLY 20 game winner in the AL last year, and all it got him was 3rd place in the Cy Young voting. Hmmm, that sounds familiar...

CC's ERA was almost a FULL RUN higher than Felix's last year - 21 total ER's more. Contrast that to the single digit difference in ER's given up by the top 4.

[BlueHen86]

Hmm - you weern't calling SF weak last year, or earlier this year when the Philly Phans were dreading playing them again in the post season.

The Giants had a heckuva pitching staff last year & do again this year. Lincecum & Cain have given the Phils fits. None of the other NL teams that will be in the playoffs come close to matching up with the Phils in that area. Phils fans are only obsessed with one six-letter word nowadays. P __ R A D __

The Giants are a much better playoff team than they are a regular season team. In the playoffs a team only needs 4 starters, and the 4th starter might only pitch once or twice in the post season. A team with 3 good starters, surrounded by average players might not make the playoffs, but would be one of the favorites once they did.

[GannonFan]

Geez, you guys are starting to sound like Joltin Joe, are you sure he hasn't stolen your passwords???? Ask CC how much wins are worth when it comes Cy Young time. Seem to remember that CC was the ONLY 20 game winner in the AL last year, and all it got him was 3rd place in the Cy Young voting. Hmmm, that sounds familiar...

CC's ERA was almost a FULL RUN higher than Felix's last year - 21 total ER's more. Contrast that to the single digit difference in ER's given up by the top 4.

And last year David Price had 19 wins, second only to CC, and had an ERA 0.5 more than Felix (very similar to Kennedy's 0.5 ERA higher than any of the three frontrunners), and he finished a distant second, despite the enormity of difference in wins. Kennedy is 3rd only in batting average against, and is 4th in every other category of importance. Wins gets him in the discussion, all those other stats leaves him without the hardware.

[AZGrizFan]

While trying to get to 20 wins tonight, Ian Kennedy has officially removed himself from Cy Young consideration.

5 hits, 4 ER and only 2 outs in the 1st inning so far. He's already thrown 40 pitches, so even if he DOES get out of the 1st, he might only pitch 3 more innings....