Mariano: 600

[ODUalum11]

Back in the mid-'80s, Jim Brown threatened to come out of retirement (with the Raiders, no less) to protect his rushing record. (Obviously, the comeback never happened.)

I hope Mr. Hells Bells actually DOES come back to protect his record. The Yankees do NOT deserve this....

Yes they do.

[BlueHen86]

A Yankee fan talking about living in the past.

We owned you in the past, we own you in the present, we will own in you in the future.

We own you.

With the amount of money the Yankees spend in payroll, they should own all of MLB.

[BlueHen86]

Back in the mid-'80s, Jim Brown threatened to come out of retirement (with the Raiders, no less) to protect his rushing record. (Obviously, the comeback never happened.)

I hope Mr. Hells Bells actually DOES come back to protect his record. The Yankees do NOT deserve this....

You got that backwards. Rivera has both quality and quantity in his saves, Hoffman only has quantity. Rivera is the greatest closer ever and it's not even close.

[JoltinJoe]

We owned you in the past, we own you in the present, we will own in you in the future.

We own you.

With the amount of money the Yankees spend in payroll, they should own all of MLB.

We do.

[JoltinJoe]

Funny thing is - if Rivera wasn't the best closer in MLB history (and this is coming from a NON-yankee fan) blowing that save in 2001 wouldn't be that big of a deal.

good for him on being the second member of the 600 club - and extra kudos for passing (soon) Hoffman for the all-time saves lead. sure-fire first ballot hall of famer - that's for sure.

Rivera actually considers the blown save in that game a blessing.

One member of the 2001 Yankees was Enrique Wilson, a key back-up infielder and a close friend of Rivera's. Anticipating that the Yankees would win the World Series, Wilson had booked a flight to the Dominican Republic based on the belief that he would stay in New York after the Series for about a week, to participate in the victory parade and other celebrations. When the Yankees lost, Wilson booked an earlier flight home and was safely in the Dominican Republic when the plane he had originally been scheduled to take home crashed shortly after takeoff from JFK, killing everyone on board.

So Rivera is happy to have lost that game because, by losing, he feels he kept his friend off the ill-fated flight.

[Gil Dobie]

Rivera actually considers the blown save in that game a blessing.

One member of the 2001 Yankees was Enrique Wilson, a key back-up infielder and a close friend of Rivera's. Anticipating that the Yankees would win the World Series, Wilson had booked a flight to the Dominican Republic based on the belief that he would stay in New York after the Series for about a week, to participate in the victory parade and other celebrations. When the Yankees lost, Wilson booked an earlier flight home and was safely in the Dominican Republic when the plane he had originally been scheduled to take home crashed shortly after takeoff from JFK, killing everyone on board.

So Rivera is happy to have lost that game because, by losing, he feels he kept his friend off the ill-fated flight.

Feel for the poor soul that got Wilson's seat.

[Ivytalk]

Back in the mid-'80s, Jim Brown threatened to come out of retirement (with the Raiders, no less) to protect his rushing record. (Obviously, the comeback never happened.)

I hope Mr. Hells Bells actually DOES come back to protect his record. The Yankees do NOT deserve this....

You got that backwards. Rivera has both quality and quantity in his saves, Hoffman only has quantity. Rivera is the greatest closer ever and it's not even close.

Better than Hoyt Wilhelm? Dick Radatz? Fred Gladding?

[andy7171]

First ballot HOFer, prolly.
Over 95% of the vote, maybe.
Forever known as the 7th game blown save, absolutely!

[JoltinJoe]

Rivera actually considers the blown save in that game a blessing.

One member of the 2001 Yankees was Enrique Wilson, a key back-up infielder and a close friend of Rivera's. Anticipating that the Yankees would win the World Series, Wilson had booked a flight to the Dominican Republic based on the belief that he would stay in New York after the Series for about a week, to participate in the victory parade and other celebrations. When the Yankees lost, Wilson booked an earlier flight home and was safely in the Dominican Republic when the plane he had originally been scheduled to take home crashed shortly after takeoff from JFK, killing everyone on board.

So Rivera is happy to have lost that game because, by losing, he feels he kept his friend off the ill-fated flight.

Feel for the poor soul that got Wilson's seat.

Probably no one, as there were empty seats.

[BlueHen86]

You got that backwards. Rivera has both quality and quantity in his saves, Hoffman only has quantity. Rivera is the greatest closer ever and it's not even close.

Better than Hoyt Wilhelm? Dick Radatz? Fred Gladding?

Yes, yes and yes. It's hard to campare eras, but I would take Rivera over any of those guys.

FWIW - Rivera has more saves than all three of them combined, and a lower ERA than all of them, even though they ptiched when the mound was higher, theoretically giving the pitcher an edge.

[SuperHornet]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

[Gil Dobie]

Buster Olney thinks Mariano belongs on the Yankees Mt Rushmore.

Who would he replace?

Gehrig
Ruth
DiMaggio
Mantle

????????????????????/

[BlueHen86]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

That must be the list for second place.

[dbackjon]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

No. Just No

[BlueHen86]

Buster Olney thinks Mariano belongs on the Yankees Mt Rushmore.

Who would he replace?

Gehrig
Ruth
DiMaggio
Mantle

????????????????????/

Gehrig and Ruth are untouchable in my book. Maybe DiMaggio, but probably not. They'd probably have to go with 5 players.

[ODUalum11]

wow there are definitely some idiotic posts in this thread recently.

[JoltinJoe]

Why is Mariano Rivera the greatest relief pitcher ever?

Here's a website that lists the top 40 all-time ERAs (minimum 1000 innings pitched). Every pitcher on this list pitched during the dead-ball era (prior to 1920) except one, Mariano Rivera. And Rivera doesn't just barely make this list. He's No. 13. (Note Walter Johnson pitched for 21 seasons, 14 during the dead-ball era and 7 during the live-ball era).

http://www.sportscity.com/mlb/mlb-all-time-era-leaders/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Career MLB Earned Run Allowed Leaders
Rank Player Team(s)
ERA

Innings
1 Ed Walsh Chicago White Sox (1904 - 1916)
Boston Braves (1917)
1.82 (ERA)
2,964.1 (IP)

2 Addie Joss Cleveland Blues (1902 - 1904)
Cleveland Naps (1905 - 1910)
1.89
2,327.0

3 Jim Devlin Louisville Grays (1876 - 1877)
1.89
1,181.0

4 Jack Pfiester Pittsburgh Pirates (1903 - 1904)
Chicago Cubs (1906 - 1911)
2.02
1,067.1

5 Joe Wood Boston Red Sox (1908 - 1915)
Cleveland Indians (1917 -1920)
2.03
1,436.1

6 Mordecai Brown St. Louis Cardinals (1903)
Chicago Cubs (1904 - 1912)
Cincinnati Reds (1913)
Brooklyn Tip-Tops (1914)
St. Louis Terriers (1914)
Chicago Whalers (1915)
Chicago Cubs (1916)
2.06
3,172.1

7 John Ward Louisville Grays (1878 - 1882)
New York Gothams (1883 - 1884)
2.10
2,461.2

8 Christy Mathewson New York Giants (1900 - 1916)
Cincinnati Reds (1917)
2.13
4,780.2

9 Al Spalding Boston Red Stockings (1871 - 1875)
Chicago White Stockings (1876 - 1877)
2.13
2890.7

10 Tommy Bond Brooklyn Atlantics (1874)
Hartford Dark Blues (1875 - 1876)
Boston Red Caps (1877 - 1881)
Worchester Ruby Legs (1882)
Boston Reds (1884)
Indianapolis Hoosiers (1884)
2.14
3682.2

11 Rube Waddell Louisville Colonels (1897 and 1899)
Pittsburgh Pirates (1900 -1901)
Chicago Orphans (1901)
Philadelphia Athletics (1902 - 1907)
St. Louis Browns (1908 - 1910)
2.16
2,961.1

12 Walter Johnson Washington Senators (1907 - 1927)
2.17
5,914.1

T13 * Mariano Rivera New York Yankees (1995 - present)
2.23
1150.0

T13 Orval Overall Cincinnati Reds (1905 - 1906)
Chicago Cubs (1906 - 1910, 1913)
2.23
1,535.1

T13 Jake Weimer Chicago Cubs (1903 - 1905)
Cincinnati Reds (1906 - 1908)
New York Giants (1909)
2.23
1472.7

T16 Ed Reulbach Chicago Cubs (1905 - 1913)
Brooklyn Superbas (1913 - 1914)
Newark Pepper (1915) *Federal League
Boston Braves (1916 - 1917)
2.28
2632.3

T16 Babe Ruth Boston Braves (1914 - 1919)
New York Yankees (1920 - 1921, 1930 - 1931)
2.28
1221.3

T16 Will White Boston Red Caps (1877)
Cincinnati Reds (1878 - 1880)
Detroit Wolverines (1881)
Cincinnati Red Stocking (1882 - 1886)
2.28
3542.7

19 Jim Scott Chicago White Sox (1909 - 1917)
2.30
1892.0

20 Tommy Bond Brooklyn Atlantics (1874)
Hartford Dark Blues (1875 - 1876)
Boston Red Caps (1887 - 1881)
Worchester Ruby Legs (1882)
Boston Reds (1884) *Union Assoc.
Indiana Hoosiers (1884) *American Assoc.
2.31
3628.7

21 Reb Russell Chicago White Sox (1913 - 1919)
2.33
1291.7

T22 Andy Coakley Philadelphia Athletics (1902 - 1906)
Cincinnati Reds (1907 - 1908)
Chicago Cubs (1908 - 1909)
New York Yankees (1911)
2.35
1072.3

T22 Eddie Plank Philadelphia Athletics (1901 - 1914)
St. Louis Terriers (1915) *Federal League
St. Louis Browns (1916 - 1917)
2.35
4495.7

24 Larry Corcoran Chicago White Stockings (1880 - 1885)
New York Giants (1885)
Washington Nationals (1886)
Indianapolis Hoosiers (1887)
2.36
2392.3

T25 Eddie Cicotte Detroit Tigers (1905)
Boston Red Sox (1908 - 1912)
Chicago White Sox (1912 - 1920)
2.38
3223.3

T25 Ed Killian Cleveland Naps (1903)
Detroit Tigers (1904 - 1910)
2.38
1598.3

T25 George McQuillan Philadelphia Phillies (1907 - 1910)
Cincinnati Reds (1911)
Pittsburgh Pirates (1913 - 1915)
Philadelphia Phillies (1915 - 1916)
Cleveland Indians (1918)
2.38
1576.3

T28 Harry Coveleski Philadelphia Phillies (1907 - 1909)
Cincinnati Reds (1910)
Detroit Tigers (1914 - 1918)
2.39
1248.0

T28 Doc White Philadelphia Phillies (1901 - 1902)
Chicago White Sox (1903 - 1913)
2.39
3041.0

T30 George Bradley St. Louis Brown Stockings (1875 - 1876)
Chicago White Stockings (1887)
Troy Trojans (1879)
Providence Grays (1880)
Cleveland Blues (1881 - 1882)
Philadelphia Athletics (1883)
Cincinnati Outlaw Reds (1884)
2.42
2940.0

T30 Carl Lundgren Chicago Orphans (1902)
Chicago Cubs (1903 - 1909)
2.42
1322.0

T30 Nap Rucker Brooklyn Superbas (1907 - 1910)
Brooklyn Dodgers (1911 - 1912)
Brooklyn Superbas (1913)
Brooklyn Robins (1914 - 1916)
2.42
2375.3

T33 Joe Benz Chicago White Sox (1911 - 1919)
2.43
1359.7

T33 Terry Larkin New York Mutuals (1876)
Hartford Dark Blues (1877)
Chicago White Stockings (1878 - 1879)
Troy Trojans (1880)
2.43
1567.3

T33 Jim McCormick Indianapolis Blues (1878)
Cleveland Blues (1879 - 1884)
Cincinnati Outlaw Reds (1884)
Providence Grays (1885)
Chicago White Stockings (1885 - 1886)
Pittsburg Alleghenys (1887)
2.43
4275.7

T33 Jeff Tesreau New York Giants (1912 - 1918)
2.43
1679.0

37 Chief Bender Philadelphia Athletics (1903 - 1914)
Baltimore Terrapins (1915) *Federal League
Philadelphia Phillies (1916 - 1917)
Chicago White Sox (1925)
2.46
3017.0

T38 Sam Leever Pittsburgh Pirates (1898 - 1910)
2.47
2660.7

T38 Lefty Leifield Pittsburgh Pirates (1905 - 1912)
Chicago Cubs (1912 - 1913)
St. Louis Browns (1918 - 1920)
2.47
1838.0

T38 Hooks Wiltse New York Giants (1904 - 1914)
Brooklyn Tip-Tops (1915) *Federal League
2.47
2112.3

T41 Candy Cummings New York Mutuals (1872)
Baltimore Canaries (1873)
Philadelphia Whites (1874)
Hartford Dark Blues (1875 - 1876)
Cincinnati Reds (1877)
2.49
2149.7

T41 Bob Ewing Cincinnati Reds (1902 - 1909)
Philadelphia Phillies (1910 - 1911)
St. Louis Cardinals (1912)
2.49
2301.0

T41 Hippo Vaughn New York Yankees (1908, 1910- 1912)
Washington Senators (1912)
Chicago Cubs (1913 - 1921)
2.49
2730.0

Other than Rivera, the pitcher with the lowest ERA during the live-ball era is Hoyt Wilhem (2.52) (minimum 1000 IP). Billy Wagner had a 2.31 ERA, but had only 908 innings pitched.

Given these numbers, you have probably guessed that Rivera is the all time leader in Adjusted ERA+, and he is. With an ERA+ of 205, Rivera is far and away the all-time leader in that category -- but you might be shocked by how far ahead he is in that category:

Career Leaders Rank Player Adjusted ERA+
1 Mariano Rivera 205
2 Pedro Martínez 154
3 Jim Devlin 151
4 Lefty Grove 148
5 Walter Johnson 147
Dan Quisenberry
Hoyt Wilhelm
8 Ed Walsh 146
Smoky Joe Wood
10 Roger Clemens 143
11 Addie Joss 142
Johan Santana
Brandon Webb
14 Trevor Hoffman 141
15 Kid Nichols 140
16 Mordecai Brown 139
17 John Franco 138
Cy Young
19 Roy Halladay 137
20 Pete Alexander 136
Randy Johnson
Christy Mathewson
Bruce Sutter

[ODUalum11]

saying Mo isn't a first ballot HOFer and one of the greatest relievers of all time is just flat out idiotic.

[BlueHen86]

saying Mo isn't a first ballot HOFer and one of the greatest relievers of all time is just flat out idiotic.

Don't take those posts too seriously. Either the person is just trying to get a response, in which case they aren't serious; or they don't know what they are talking about, in which case they shouldn't be taken seriously.

There are some voters who, on principle, won't vote someone into the HOF in their first year of eligibility. Some voters may not think a relief pitcher is worthy for the HOF in their first year of eligibility. My guess is that there aren't enough of them to keep him out. Rivera will be a first ballot HOFer.

[SuperHornet]

Joe's source could use some editing. George didn't play for the Braves 1914-1919. That was his Red Sox era. He went back to Boston in the '30s after the stupid owner of the Yankees wouldn't let him manage.










(Or is that just too embarrassing to admit for a Yankee fan? )

[dbackjon]

601

[TwinTownBisonFan]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

Sweet merciful crap.

SH - you've offered some lulu's in your time... but this is up there...

The ONLY competition Mo has is Eckersley. Eck was the original definition of a specific closer - the model on which others would be molded. However - Rivera is THE consummate closer. Reliable, clutch and the essence of poise in some of the most pressure-packed situations - in the fishbowl media environment that is the Bronx... I LOATHE the Yankees - but Rivera is the best of all time.

[Ivytalk]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

Ugueth Urbina? Clay Carroll? Bwahahahaha! FAIL!!

[SuperHornet]

1. Hoffman
2. Sutter
3. Eckersley
4. Fingers
5. Gossage
6. Face
7. L. Smith
8. Urbina
9. Wilhelm
10. Carroll

Rivera doesn't even make the list....

Ugueth Urbina? Clay Carroll? Bwahahahaha! FAIL!!

Carroll only because I just HAD to have a BRM member on this list. Urbina was pretty good.

TTBF: How does Sutter not make your list? If ANYONE, he'd make the list strictly for how scared people were to face him. And I don't remember any spectacular blown saves out of him as we've seen VERY often from Rivera.

I'm starting to think that people have COMPLETELY blocked out the entire decade of the '80s from their brain housing groups.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Ugueth Urbina? Clay Carroll? Bwahahahaha! FAIL!!

Carroll only because I just HAD to have a BRM member on this list. Urbina was pretty good.

TTBF: How does Sutter not make your list? If ANYONE, he'd make the list strictly for how scared people were to face him. And I don't remember any spectacular blown saves out of him as we've seen VERY often from Rivera.

I'm starting to think that people have COMPLETELY blocked out the entire decade of the '80s from their brain housing groups.

601 Regular season saves - tied most all time

42 postseason saves - BY FAR the most - in fact more than 2x more than #2
.071 postseason ERA - by FAR the lowest for any pitcher with even close to his IP
4 postseason blown saves in 46 opportunities... 4. That's 91% success in the postseason. Setting aside the notable incident from 2001 - there has never been a more reliable postseason closer.

He's converted 90%+ of his save opportunities in his career.

Again - not a Yankee fan. But even I will acknowledge - he is the best of all time.

and - no. I haven't forgotten the 80's... it's a simple question for me: If you could build a team with the greatest players at every position... who closes your games? For me? It's Mo. (with Eck second)