JMU AD: Move to FBS "very likely" in 18-24 months

[dbackjon]

Last year's game was also the second worst attended "TiresAreMadeFromRubber.com" bowls. So, don't act like it's an aberration because Toledo was in the game. And I MAC team participated every one of these years:

2010 32,431
2009 30,331
2008 41,399
2007 60,624
2006 54,113
2005 45,801
2004 52,553
2003 51,286
2002 45,761
2001 44,164
2000 44,911
1999 44,449
1998 38,016
1997 43,340

FCS championship games would kill for those numbers.

Yep. Bingo. There goes the FCS argument flushed down the toilet. I'd sign up for that. Could you imagine the SMALLEST number for a crap-ass FBS bowl being at a FCS NC game?? That folks is the difference, open your mind.

Again, if you want attendance, just require a minimum purchase of tickets like the bowls currently do. Had the NC game had the bowl ticket purchase requirement, they would have easily sold it out, and then some.

[Skjellyfetti]

And FCS game "attendance" would be higher in the chipper REQUIRED the participating teams to buy 10K tickets each, regardless if they were actually used or not, like the bowl game does.

Again, if you want attendance, just require a minimum purchase of tickets like the bowls currently do. Had the NC game had the bowl ticket purchase requirement, they would have easily sold it out, and then some.

That would help.

But, FCS schools are cheap. Hence, why they're FCS.

[dbackjon]

Notice that downward trend?

And the FCS championship game attendance trend is what exactly?

Like the Detroit bowl - dependant on having local teams.

[bluehenbillk]

Yup. And moving the game from Chattanooga has been one of my biggest gripes with FCS. Moving the game to a region with a very low chance of having a participating team within driving distance was DUMB. I think 1 team out of the field was within a decent drive. Though, Chattanooga wouldn't have helped much... I mean, Delaware could only muster 3,000 tickets for a game less than 12 hours away in 2007.

Last year's game was also the second worst attended "TiresAreMadeFromRubber.com" bowls. So, don't act like it's an aberration because Toledo was in the game. And I MAC team participated every one of these years:

2010 32,431
2009 30,331
2008 41,399
2007 60,624
2006 54,113
2005 45,801
2004 52,553
2003 51,286
2002 45,761
2001 44,164
2000 44,911
1999 44,449
1998 38,016
1997 43,340

FCS championship games would kill for those numbers.

Notice that downward trend? Motor City Bowl used to be MAC vs Big 10. And highest attendance was when there was a Big 10 team and a "local" team (CMU - 30 minutes away, Toledo - hour away, and Bowling Green).


And FCS game "attendance" would be higher in the chipper REQUIRED the participating teams to buy 10K tickets each, regardless if they were actually used or not, like the bowl game does.

I lived in Nashville the year MTSU went to it's first ever bowl - in Detroit. MTSU had to beg local businesses to buy tickets to donate to kids groups in Detroit.

Yea but my memory is pretty good & when MTSU was a FCS team they never really drew flies to their home games anyway, much less a bowl game in Detroit.

[Skjellyfetti]

Question for the anti-FBS crowd:

Why is there always a line or a moratorium on moving up... and programs never move down? If FCS is so much better financially, competitively, etc. etc. ... why don't programs want to drop from the MAC to the MVFC? Marshall is usually pointed to as the poster-child for an FBS move-up failure. You think they they want to rejoin the SoCon anytime soon? Why is that?

[danefan]

I was asking an honest question - not laying bait for smack.

Thanks for the info. Definitely a positive in favor of moving to FBS.

Although I wonder whether the 4 super conferences will have the scheduling needs that still require those teams to schedule @ the lower-tier FBS schools?

[dbackjon]

And FCS game "attendance" would be higher in the chipper REQUIRED the participating teams to buy 10K tickets each, regardless if they were actually used or not, like the bowl game does.

That would help.

But, FCS schools are cheap. Hence, why they're FCS.

Motor City Bowl costs teams money to participate - they lose more money than going to the NC

[dbackjon]

Notice that downward trend? Motor City Bowl used to be MAC vs Big 10. And highest attendance was when there was a Big 10 team and a "local" team (CMU - 30 minutes away, Toledo - hour away, and Bowling Green).


And FCS game "attendance" would be higher in the chipper REQUIRED the participating teams to buy 10K tickets each, regardless if they were actually used or not, like the bowl game does.

I lived in Nashville the year MTSU went to it's first ever bowl - in Detroit. MTSU had to beg local businesses to buy tickets to donate to kids groups in Detroit.

Yea but my memory is pretty good & when MTSU was a FCS team they never really drew flies to their home games anyway, much less a bowl game in Detroit.

And they still don't draw

[dbackjon]

Question for the anti-FBS crowd:

Why is there always a line or a moratorium on moving up... and programs never move down? If FCS is so much better financially, competitively, etc. etc. ... why don't programs want to drop from the MAC to the MVFC? Marshall is usually pointed to as the poster-child for an FBS move-up failure. You think they they want to rejoin the SoCon anytime soon? Why is that?

Pride.

[∞∞∞]

I would 'cause an FCS National Championship actually represents the spirit of collegiate competition.

Is playing for a meaningless championship really more competitive than playing for a meaningless bowl game. Yeah, you can call yourself "national champions" but, everyone knows Auburn, not Eastern Washington were the national champions last year.

If you just want to win championships - move to Division II. ODU's facilities and athletic department would win a whole lot. Why bother with the increased challenge of competing in Division I?

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

[Silenoz]

Question for the anti-FBS crowd:

Why is there always a line or a moratorium on moving up... and programs never move down? If FCS is so much better financially, competitively, etc. etc. ... why don't programs want to drop from the MAC to the MVFC? Marshall is usually pointed to as the poster-child for an FBS move-up failure. You think they they want to rejoin the SoCon anytime soon? Why is that?

Pride

Ask Idaho about their thoughts on the Big Sky conference

[henfan]

Co Co Co, the most well reasoned post on this thread. Thanks for that.

[henfan]

Pride.

Yeah, that has a lot to do with it. Is any administration prepared to absorb the political and financial hit they would take by admitting that they wasted tens of millions of dollars upgrading facilities & infrastructure for a project that ultimately was short-sighted and probably not well vetted? I think we know the answer to that.

Additionally, what becomes of all of the Title IX equivalencies once 22 FB scholarships are cut? What sort of image hit does a school take & what legal action is taken for cutting Olympic sport program and, in particular, women's sports?

I think you begin to see why schools haven't reversed decisions about FB reclassification. It has little to do with the FCS being the appropriate place for their programs.

[89Hen]

Have you ever been to the TiresAreMadeFromRubber.com bowl? I hear Detroit is lovely in mid-December...the normal "bleak" look is often described as "super-bleak" right before Christmas. I can't wait.

13,027 attendance for Delaware - EWU

vs.

32,431 attendance for FIU - Toledo

That's more than twice the fans that find Detroit more appealing than Frisco.

Toledo to Detroit = 60 miles. Imagine that. Having a close by team increases attendance. Who was saying that for the years leading up to Frisco?

[dbackjon]

Pride.

Yeah, that has a lot to do with it. Is any administration prepared to absorb the political and financial hit they would take by admitting that they wasted tens of millions of dollars upgrading facilities & infrastructure for a project that ultimately was short-sighted and probably not well vetted? I think we know the answer to that.

Additionally, what becomes of all of the Title IX equivalencies once 22 FB scholarships are cut? What sort of image hit does a school take & what legal action is taken for cutting Olympic sport program and, in particular, women's sports?

I think you begin to see why schools haven't reversed decisions about FB reclassification. It has little to do with the FCS being the appropriate place for their programs.

Great points. It will take a major shake up like what happened in 78 to move some schools

[dbackjon]

13,027 attendance for Delaware - EWU

vs.

32,431 attendance for FIU - Toledo

That's more than twice the fans that find Detroit more appealing than Frisco.

Toledo to Detroit = 60 miles. Imagine that. Having a close by team increases attendance. Who was saying that for the years leading up to Frisco?

Not sure

[89Hen]

The gap between the BCS and the rest of the I-A is about to grow by a factor of 10 IMO. At least before the non-BCS teams could at least pretend that they could get a seat at the table at the end of the year. Once these super conferences get everyone in, there won't be ANY chance for an outsider to crash the party. Hard to believe, but non-BCS I-A will become even more irrelevant. They will be schedule filler. I'd rather stay in I-AA and play for a championship.

[bluehenbillk]

13,027 attendance for Delaware - EWU

vs.

32,431 attendance for FIU - Toledo

That's more than twice the fans that find Detroit more appealing than Frisco.

Toledo to Detroit = 60 miles. Imagine that. Having a close by team increases attendance. Who was saying that for the years leading up to Frisco?

Please list the years of great attendance in Chatty? By the way, the NCAA would sooner not have a NC game than move it back there, did you read that?

[JmuSkinsfan]

Posted this over on the JMU boards on the Zone ... quite possible ... with all the crazy shakeups

Okay ... with the announcement that WVU was rejected from ACC/SEC ... let's look at it this way. Big East will go all bball and lose their auto-bid. WVU, Louisville, USF, Cincinatti, UConn, TCU, Rutgers remain. A lot of raiding can still occur (WVU to Big10?) ... UConn and Rutgers to ACC? Either way ... there will be some good Big East schools left out ...

Big East: Louisville, Rutgers, USF, Cincinnati, WVU
CUSA East: ECU, Marshall, UCF, Memphis, UAB
FCS: App State, ODU, JMU
MAC: UMass, Ohio, Temple

East Coast Conference: North
WVU, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Marshall, Temple, Ohio, Umass, JMU

East Coast Conference: South
Louisville, ECU, App State, ODU, Memphis, UAB, UCF, USF

Thoughts?

[DukeJack]

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

Fantastic post. There is a major difference for me in being able to proudly say my school won the national title than a throwaway bowl. I still wear my 2004 national champs shirt and will continue to do so until it falls apart or we win another. This news of JMU jumping, while expected, really pisses me off. In no way does going non-BCS give us any chance at a true national title ever again.

With these impending megaconferences forming, and the rumored MWC/CUSA merger, there is nothing left aside the MAC and SunBelt. Even if a new east coast conference is formed, we'll still be locked out of anything the BCS schools institute and will be playing for absolutely nothing.

Two consecutive 6-5 seasons have people screaming for Mickey's head on a stick for missing the playoffs. Those same records would get us two bowl berths and no one would be complaining then. That disgusting celebration of utter mediocrity so many FBS fans embrace should be reason enough to avoid it.

[JMUpurplehazed]

I've decided I hate college football, from now on, I'm going to Towson to bang Towson chicks on Saturdays

[89Hen]

Please list the years of great attendance in Chatty? By the way, the NCAA would sooner not have a NC game than move it back there, did you read that?

C'mon BK, it was a parting shot (although a valid one). Chatty had over 20k four times. All four were when they was a local team (AppSt and GSU). Do you really dispute that attendance is better when at least one of the teams is close by?

[89Hen]

Posted this over on the JMU boards on the Zone ... quite possible ... with all the crazy shakeups

Okay ... with the announcement that WVU was rejected from ACC/SEC ... let's look at it this way. Big East will go all bball and lose their auto-bid. WVU, Louisville, USF, Cincinatti, UConn, TCU, Rutgers remain. A lot of raiding can still occur (WVU to Big10?) ... UConn and Rutgers to ACC? Either way ... there will be some good Big East schools left out ...

Big East: Louisville, Rutgers, USF, Cincinnati, WVU
CUSA East: ECU, Marshall, UCF, Memphis, UAB
FCS: App State, ODU, JMU
MAC: UMass, Ohio, Temple

East Coast Conference: North
WVU, Rutgers, Cincinnati, Marshall, Temple, Ohio, Umass, JMU

East Coast Conference: South
Louisville, ECU, App State, ODU, Memphis, UAB, UCF, USF

Thoughts?

Where's TCU?

[wmtribe90]

Is playing for a meaningless championship really more competitive than playing for a meaningless bowl game. Yeah, you can call yourself "national champions" but, everyone knows Auburn, not Eastern Washington were the national champions last year.

If you just want to win championships - move to Division II. ODU's facilities and athletic department would win a whole lot. Why bother with the increased challenge of competing in Division I?

It's not a meaningless championship. It represents that you were the best at the level you compete at. Don't allow others (who have no association with your school) define what something means. If ODU won an FCS title, I couldn't care less if "everyone" thinks Auburn is the only National Champion. I'd know what my alma mater did and I'd be proud of it. "Everyone" doesn't define what something means to me.

And I want ODU to compete at the highest level possible, but I also want us to compete at the highest level possible in an environment that's fair to our student athletes and actually represents what college athletics is about. In its current form, the FBS doesn't provide this, and the FCS is the highest level of competition that does. If the FBS changes and ODU is able to compete for National Championships at the I-A level, then that's where I want ODU.

Great post and so true. The driving force for most of the FCS to FBS folks is what others think of their program, as if they need someone's approval to enjoy what they have.

This whole superconference shakeup just re-enforces for me why WM is best served at the FCS level. True competition with actual student athletes, not semi-pro football where true competition takes a back-seat to making a buck.

Funny thing is, as a member of a non-BCS superconference, they're not going to get any more respect from ESPN or the guy at the water cooler that went to BCS-U than they are now. They're more than likely going to lose more money (increase travel, scholly cost, coaches salaries, facility upkeep, etc), recruit higher risk athletes that are less representative of the student population, lose most of their regional rivalries and the chance to attend away games, and trim other sports from they're athletic department to cover the cost of "big time" football. All in the hope of hosting Indiana or Pitt once every three years, going 6-5, and losing money to play a glorified scrimmage game.

I don't care if the meaningless bowl games gets 100,000 fans, its not a popularity contest to me. I hope I get to see my school play for a true NC one day, and it'll mean just as much to me whether there's 1 or 100,000 in attendance, as long as I'm there to see it and cheer them on.

[JmuSkinsfan]

Well ... this is assuming the Big12 and Big East remaining teams do not combine. That said, I think it is much more likely (and geographically smart) for TCU to join the Big 12 with Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State. They add MWC teams (Boise State, Air Force, UNLV), and CUSA West teams (SMU, Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, Tulane, Southern Miss, Houston) WAC (Nevada) and BYU (Can't stay independent ... don't think anyone will be able to)

Kansas, Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State, Boise State, Air Force, UNLV, SMU, Tulsa, Rice, UTEP, Tulane, Southern Miss, Houston, BYU, Nevada.