Tigers & Yankees Division Series

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Z's latest reply...

THIS.

Looking at that chart - by my count CC had 6 strikes called balls.
Verlander had 4...

Verlander got 8 strikes on the left that were balls.
Sabathia got 3.

Here's the difference - Verlander wasn't getting MORE calls - he was just hitting that corner consistently - CC wasn't.

Where CC got "squeezed" is upper right - however... at a certain point - the ump isn't giving that spot - give up.

Verlander has a bunch of close pitches called balls up there too... however he seems to have figured out that you can get more down and away...
either CC didn't want to go there - or he couldn't hit it... and looking at his spray - he just wasn't that sharp.

Stop making excuses - Verlander wasn't all that sharp either - he just found a way to gut through it (and so did CC - save for one bad pitch to young)

[JoltinJoe]

Why is it so hard for Yankee fans to just admit when they're beat fair and square, and then move on?

Judging by Joe's reaction to the 2001 WS, 10 years is not long enough...

Says the guy who started a thread about losing on the worst call ever ... Where did I blame the ump for the loss? I simply observed and then proved that the strike zone was wider for Verlander last night. I never said the ump cost the Yankees the game.

What's the big deal about the 2001 WS? You act like the D-Backs win* still counts.

[AZGrizFan]

Z's latest reply...

THIS.

Looking at that chart - by my count CC had 6 strikes called balls.
Verlander had 4...

Verlander got 8 strikes on the left that were balls.
Sabathia got 3.

Here's the difference - Verlander wasn't getting MORE calls - he was just hitting that corner consistently - CC wasn't.

Where CC got "squeezed" is upper right - however... at a certain point - the ump isn't giving that spot - give up.

Verlander has a bunch of close pitches called balls up there too... however he seems to have figured out that you can get more down and away...
either CC didn't want to go there - or he couldn't hit it... and looking at his spray - he just wasn't that sharp.

Stop making excuses - Verlander wasn't all that sharp either - he just found a way to gut through it (and so did CC - save for one bad pitch to young)

Yep.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Judging by Joe's reaction to the 2001 WS, 10 years is not long enough...

Says the guy who started a thread about losing on the worst call ever ... Where did I blame the ump for the loss? I simply observed and then proved that the strike zone was wider for Verlander last night. I never said the ump cost the Yankees the game.

What's the big deal about the 2001 WS? You act like the D-Backs win* still counts.

Saying you proved it, doesn't mean you proved it.

You posted a pitch chart that suggests CC wasn't hitting the corners the way Verlander was - the umps zone was consistent - albeit off a little down and to the left - but consistent.

[JoltinJoe]

Z's latest reply...

THIS.

Looking at that chart - by my count CC had 6 strikes called balls.
Verlander had 4...

Verlander got 8 strikes on the left that were balls.
Sabathia got 3.

Here's the difference - Verlander wasn't getting MORE calls - he was just hitting that corner consistently - CC wasn't.

Where CC got "squeezed" is upper right - however... at a certain point - the ump isn't giving that spot - give up.

Verlander has a bunch of close pitches called balls up there too... however he seems to have figured out that you can get more down and away...
either CC didn't want to go there - or he couldn't hit it... and looking at his spray - he just wasn't that sharp.

Stop making excuses - Verlander wasn't all that sharp either - he just found a way to gut through it (and so did CC - save for one bad pitch to young)

See, you can't reason any of this from the chart, because only called pitches are shown. You have no idea as to a pitcher's overall pitch location, because the location of swinging strikes or batted balls is not reflected.

It tells you one thing: not the pitcher's location tendency, but the umpire's tendency re: ball/strike calls. This chart reflects only the UMPIRE's TENDENCY.

And this shows when he made a call, Davis favored Verlander. Way too may Sabathia balls in the strike zone. Way too many Verlander strikes outside the box.

Oh, and BTW, the reason that Verlander's "close pitches" on the upper right were called balls is because they were ALL outside the box. CC was in the box in that location. That's the difference. On the upper right, there isn't a single green box inside the strike zone.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

THIS.

Looking at that chart - by my count CC had 6 strikes called balls.
Verlander had 4...

Verlander got 8 strikes on the left that were balls.
Sabathia got 3.

Here's the difference - Verlander wasn't getting MORE calls - he was just hitting that corner consistently - CC wasn't.

Where CC got "squeezed" is upper right - however... at a certain point - the ump isn't giving that spot - give up.

Verlander has a bunch of close pitches called balls up there too... however he seems to have figured out that you can get more down and away...
either CC didn't want to go there - or he couldn't hit it... and looking at his spray - he just wasn't that sharp.

Stop making excuses - Verlander wasn't all that sharp either - he just found a way to gut through it (and so did CC - save for one bad pitch to young)

See, you can't reason any of this from the chart, because only called pitches are shown. You have no idea as to a pitcher's overall pitch location, because the location of swinging strikes or batted balls is not reflected.

It tells you one thing: not the pitcher's location tendency, but the umpire's tendency re: ball/strike calls. This chart reflects only the UMPIRE's TENDENCY.

And this shows when he made a call, Davis favored Verlander. Way too may Sabathia balls in the strike zone. Way too many Verlander strikes outside the box.

Oh, and BTW, the reason that Verlander's "close pitches" on the upper right were called balls is because they were ALL outside the box. CC was in the box in that location. That's the difference.

Oh for Chrissakes...

what this little retort tells me - the flippin Yankee hitters should have started swinging down and away...

CC got more or less the SAME DAMN ZONE VERLANDER GOT. It wasn't "according to Hoyle" perfect - but that's a reality every night in every game. Verlander just used it more effectively.

I know the taste of sour grapes in your mouth causes the making of excuses... but honestly - this is sad. I mean this is JBB/lakes bad... If this guys name was Bill Fette...

They got beat. In a close game. But they got f'ing beat.

[JoltinJoe]

See, you can't reason any of this from the chart, because only called pitches are shown. You have no idea as to a pitcher's overall pitch location, because the location of swinging strikes or batted balls is not reflected.

It tells you one thing: not the pitcher's location tendency, but the umpire's tendency re: ball/strike calls. This chart reflects only the UMPIRE's TENDENCY.

And this shows when he made a call, Davis favored Verlander. Way too may Sabathia balls in the strike zone. Way too many Verlander strikes outside the box.

Oh, and BTW, the reason that Verlander's "close pitches" on the upper right were called balls is because they were ALL outside the box. CC was in the box in that location. That's the difference.

Oh for Chrissakes...

what this little retort tells me - the flippin Yankee hitters should have started swinging down and away...

CC got more or less the SAME DAMN ZONE VERLANDER GOT. It wasn't "according to Hoyle" perfect - but that's a reality every night in every game. Verlander just used it more effectively.

I know the taste of sour grapes in your mouth causes the making of excuses... but honestly - this is sad. I mean this is JBB/lakes bad... If this guys name was Bill Fette...

They got beat. In a close game. But they got f'ing beat.

Translation: My original post was me just bullshitting, and now that you exposed me, I've got nothing.

If you can look at that chart and say it shows the ump called the same strike zone for both pitchers, that tells me you're still in political spin mode.

[dbackjon]

Oh for Chrissakes...

what this little retort tells me - the flippin Yankee hitters should have started swinging down and away...

CC got more or less the SAME DAMN ZONE VERLANDER GOT. It wasn't "according to Hoyle" perfect - but that's a reality every night in every game. Verlander just used it more effectively.

I know the taste of sour grapes in your mouth causes the making of excuses... but honestly - this is sad. I mean this is JBB/lakes bad... If this guys name was Bill Fette...

They got beat. In a close game. But they got f'ing beat.

My original post was me just bullshitting, and now that you exposed me, I've got nothing.

Dude - you are a lawyer - we know that already

[JoltinJoe]

See, you can't reason any of this from the chart, because only called pitches are shown. You have no idea as to a pitcher's overall pitch location, because the location of swinging strikes or batted balls is not reflected.

It tells you one thing: not the pitcher's location tendency, but the umpire's tendency re: ball/strike calls. This chart reflects only the UMPIRE's TENDENCY.

And this shows when he made a call, Davis favored Verlander. Way too may Sabathia balls in the strike zone. Way too many Verlander strikes outside the box.

Oh, and BTW, the reason that Verlander's "close pitches" on the upper right were called balls is because they were ALL outside the box. CC was in the box in that location. That's the difference.

Oh for Chrissakes...

what this little retort tells me - the flippin Yankee hitters should have started swinging down and away...

CC got more or less the SAME DAMN ZONE VERLANDER GOT. It wasn't "according to Hoyle" perfect - but that's a reality every night in every game. Verlander just used it more effectively.

I know the taste of sour grapes in your mouth causes the making of excuses... but honestly - this is sad. I mean this is JBB/lakes bad... If this guys name was Bill Fette...

They got beat. In a close game. But they got f'ing beat.

BTW, what "this little retort" should have told you is that you don't understand what's depicted on this graph.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Oh for Chrissakes...

what this little retort tells me - the flippin Yankee hitters should have started swinging down and away...

CC got more or less the SAME DAMN ZONE VERLANDER GOT. It wasn't "according to Hoyle" perfect - but that's a reality every night in every game. Verlander just used it more effectively.

I know the taste of sour grapes in your mouth causes the making of excuses... but honestly - this is sad. I mean this is JBB/lakes bad... If this guys name was Bill Fette...

They got beat. In a close game. But they got f'ing beat.

BTW, what "this little retort" should have told you is that you don't understand what's depicted on this graph.

of course JBBoltinJBBoe...

[AshevilleApp]

Tiger's won last night.

[Gil Dobie]

Please amend "There's no crying in baseball, except in Boston" to add New York.

[JoltinJoe]

BTW, what "this little retort" should have told you is that you don't understand what's depicted on this graph.

of course JBBoltinJBBoe...

You should stay in politics. You're perfect for it. Say whatever, get proven wrong, then call names.

[JoltinJoe]

Let's watch a video of the ump last night making some calls with Verlander on the mound.

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[AZGrizFan]

Let's watch a video of the ump last night making some calls with Verlander on the mound.

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RIP Leslie Nielsen....and the Yankmees...

[JoltinJoe]

Let's watch a video of the ump last night making some calls with Verlander on the mound.

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RIP Leslie Nielsen....and the Yankmees...

Everyone acts like the Yankees are done.

The Tigers pitch Porcello tonight. The Yanks can beat him, even with Burnett on the mound.

And this series looks much different if its 2-2, going back to NY, for a decisive Game #5, Nova v. Fister.

[AshevilleApp]

RIP Leslie Nielsen....and the Yankmees...

Everyone acts like the Yankees are done.

The Tigers pitch Porcello tonight. The Yanks can beat him, even with Burnett on the mound.

And this series looks much different if its 2-2, going back to NY, for a decisive Game #5, Nova v. Fister.

Reference my post earlier today. But please quit whining about last night.

[JoltinJoe]

Everyone acts like the Yankees are done.

The Tigers pitch Porcello tonight. The Yanks can beat him, even with Burnett on the mound.

And this series looks much different if its 2-2, going back to NY, for a decisive Game #5, Nova v. Fister.

Reference my post earlier today. But please quit whining about last night.

I wasn't whining. Someone asked if Verlander had a different strike zone, I said he did, and then I proved it. I didn't start the discussion. However, you'd have to be blind not to see the disparity in the strike zone last night. There is plenty of discussion about it today, because it was obvious. The TBS box consistently reflected the disparity of the strike zone. I turned on Gametracker on my laptop because, because I wanted to see if it was showing the same disparity. It was.

Ask a question. Get an answer. My original post was to defend Sabathia last night. Nothing else.

[AshevilleApp]

Reference my post earlier today. But please quit whining about last night.

I wasn't whining. Someone asked if Verlander had a different strike zone, I said he did, and then I proved it. I didn't start the discussion. However, you'd have to be blind not to see the disparity in the strike zone last night. There is plenty of discussion about it today, because it was obvious.

Ask a question. Get an answer. My original post was to defend Sabathia last night. Nothing else.

Go back and read the thread. Nobody asked whether Verlander had a different strike zone. Bill K asked why Sabathia struggled in the post season. You're the one who tried to blame in on the umps.

[JoltinJoe]

I wasn't whining. Someone asked if Verlander had a different strike zone, I said he did, and then I proved it. I didn't start the discussion. However, you'd have to be blind not to see the disparity in the strike zone last night. There is plenty of discussion about it today, because it was obvious.

Ask a question. Get an answer. My original post was to defend Sabathia last night. Nothing else.

Go back and read the thread. Nobody asked whether Verlander had a different strike zone. Bill K asked why Sabathia struggled in the post season. You're the one who tried to blame in on the umps.

Did Verlander get a different strike zone?

I said Sabathia has been excellent with the Yanks, but he struggled last night because the ump shrunk the strike zone. And that's simply a fact. There is no denying that Sabathia pitched to squeezed strike zone last night,

I never said a word about Verlander's strike zone until somone asked, but when the question was asked I answered it, and backed up my answer. Nor did I ever say it cost the Yankees the game. I said it caused Sabathia to struggle.

[andy7171]

FUCK the yankees!

[TwinTownBisonFan]

AJ Burnett pours a tall glass of STFU tonight... wow.

1 ER in 5.2... setting his team up nicely to force a game 5... wow.

[Gil Dobie]

Sets up a game 5 in Yankee Stadium.

[AshevilleApp]

Good job by Burnett. I'm glad the series isn't decided by cumulative runs, or this would already be over.

[danefan]

The rain out of Game 1 is still f'ing with my life. Now I've got a cold and I fell asleep in the third inning last night.

Damn you MLB!!!!!!!!!!!