NCAA sued on NCAA nickname issue--by the Sioux Tribe!!

[AZGrizFan]

welcome to RACISM 2011, und hockey nazi' fans USING Native Americans' as puppet's Congrats! (I only use the nazi word because und benefactor ralph e gave $100 million to school and he was a nazi-sympthizer)


at least Standing Rock Tribe has brain cells and see right through all the $$ signs, because they know no one from grand forks gambles at prairie nights.


URSES.& Others. this is the ONLY way und can create exposure for their school, they cant win on the playing field, so they flood the media in north dakota(anti-ndsu) with stories like this everyday attempting to stay on peoples minds.


11% of the SPIRIT LAKE TRIBE VOTED ON THE POLICY YOU DUMB ASSES>

3-10.

And the 11% that voted cared enough to vote. the other 89% didn't give two shits.

[lakesbison]

yea so 89% dont give a shit... ie. they wouldnt FAVOR it.

rushman are you on drugs? they (the 11% spirit lake) are puppet's from a Minot Lawyer and the 100 und hockey boosters with money.

[DSUrocks07]

Lakes has an OBVIOUS inferiority complex regarding UND that I do not understand at all. You guys are the #1 team in the country. And you're claiming that the media is still "anti-NDSU"??? Its almost like the DSU-UD argument in reverse.

Side note: I would have no idea what I would do if DSU was #1 in the country in the football polls in my lifetime.

[AZGrizFan]

yea so 89% dont give a shit... ie. they wouldnt FAVOR it.
rushman are you on drugs? they (the 11% spirit lake) are puppet's from a Minot Lawyer and the 100 und hockey boosters with money.

Gotta love that NDSU education being put to work there.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

yea so 89% dont give a shit... ie. they wouldnt FAVOR it.
rushman are you on drugs? they (the 11% spirit lake) are puppet's from a Minot Lawyer and the 100 und hockey boosters with money.

Gotta love that NDSU education being put to work there.

He actually went to Bismarck St College... he never actually graduated from NDSU.

[AZGrizFan]

Gotta love that NDSU education being put to work there.

He actually went to Bismarck St College... he never actually graduated from NDSU.

Nobody cares. He's yours now!

[lakesbison]

you guys are hilarious. I am just fine, everyone knows that fargo/bismarck/grand forks media is anti-ndsu.

this below is example #48375345 why they are racist's remember this frat/sorority cowboy/indian party?

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[AZGrizFan]

you guys are hilarious. I am just fine, everyone knows that fargo/bismarck/grand forks media is anti-ndsu.
this below is example #48375345 why they are racist's remember this frat/sorority cowboy/indian party?

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IF EVERY major media outlet in your own state can't stand you (by your own admission), including the very town your university resides in, perhaps the problem is YOU, not them?

[Darell1976]

No - they won't.

FSU/CMU/Utah/Illinois ALL have expressed permission from ALL relevant tribes and are compliant with the NCAA's rules... they don't have to worry about anything as their nicknames are protected. While Spirit Lake supports, Standing Rock and Turtle Mountain (IIRC) DON'T and WON'T...

Unlike a lot of Bison fans I'm not obsessed with this issue - but my years in ND have made me all to familiar with this mess - and it blows my mind that people just won't let this go...

I'm doubtful that the courts will reverse years of siding with the NCAA on these issues... given that nobody is forcing UND to stay in the NCAA (they could join the NAIA... and no, I'm not "going lakes" on this - just pointing out) if they want to keep the name... they are members of a private organization with a set of rules for membership, they know the rules and are violating them. The courts aren't going to reverse many decades of precedent with regard to private associations.

Are those the tribes that voted, the counsel members didn't like the vote and went against the vote when giving their recommendation...and refuse to allow a revote?

Lets get the tribes right. Turtle Mountain is a CHIPPEWA band of Indians. Not Sioux!! What they mean has nothing on this issue except their own member drew the logo. Standing Rock's Archie Fool Bear had a petition signed by 1004 members to put a tribe-wide vote just like at Spirit Lake but the tribal council (knowing it would lose big time, like at Spirit Lake) dismissed the petition and there was NO vote. Archie Fool Bear is also a plaintiff in this case. Also ignore Lakes, he's well Lakes. Also I found this newstory intersting about Florida State who has a white man dress up as a Seminole (the man is NOT a Seminole Indian) and jump on a horse with a flaming spear and stab it in the 50 yard line.
http://www.newson6.com/story/15483585/f ... n-oklahoma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But some Oklahomans, specifically Native Americans, say they will be too disgusted to watch because of the Florida State Mascot, Chief Osceola, and the use of Native American images.

What's racist in one person's eyes (Lakes for example) is not in others (Spirit Lake Sioux Nation).

[grizzaholic]

you guys are hilarious. I am just fine, everyone knows that fargo/bismarck/grand forks media is anti-ndsu.
this below is example #48375345 why they are racist's remember this frat/sorority cowboy/indian party?

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IF EVERY major media outlet in your own state can't stand you (by your own admission), including the very town your university resides in, perhaps the problem is YOU, not them?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Are those the tribes that voted, the counsel members didn't like the vote and went against the vote when giving their recommendation...and refuse to allow a revote?

Lets get the tribes right. Turtle Mountain is a CHIPPEWA band of Indians. Not Sioux!! What they mean has nothing on this issue except their own member drew the logo. Standing Rock's Archie Fool Bear had a petition signed by 1004 members to put a tribe-wide vote just like at Spirit Lake but the tribal council (knowing it would lose big time, like at Spirit Lake) dismissed the petition and there was NO vote. Archie Fool Bear is also a plaintiff in this case. Also ignore Lakes, he's well Lakes. Also I found this newstory intersting about Florida State who has a white man dress up as a Seminole (the man is NOT a Seminole Indian) and jump on a horse with a flaming spear and stab it in the 50 yard line.
http://www.newson6.com/story/15483585/f ... n-oklahoma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But some Oklahomans, specifically Native Americans, say they will be too disgusted to watch because of the Florida State Mascot, Chief Osceola, and the use of Native American images.

What's racist in one person's eyes (Lakes for example) is not in others (Spirit Lake Sioux Nation).

Fair points on the tribes - and thanks for the clarification - it's been a few years since I've been up on this nonsense day-to-day...

My point remains - the courts aren't going to stop the NCAA - a private organization - from setting their own rules when UND's membership is VOLUNTARY.

As for Chief Osceola - while individuals may be offended, hardly surprising, the Seminole tribes have signed off on all depictions and uses of both the name and imagery used by the University.

As for dismissing the petition, that is entirely their prerogative... if it bothered tribal members too much, they could have simply voted them out of office... but again, methinks the number people who think this is an issue worth spending time on is small compared to the pressing issues facing the Reservation. (the people who really care about it are largely not a part of the community...)

[TwinTownBisonFan]

you guys are hilarious. I am just fine, everyone knows that fargo/bismarck/grand forks media is anti-ndsu.
this below is example #48375345 why they are racist's remember this frat/sorority cowboy/indian party?

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IF EVERY major media outlet in your own state can't stand you (by your own admission), including the very town your university resides in, perhaps the problem is YOU, not them?

nah - the media is just anti-lakes. the Fargo Forum has a weekly column called "shit lakes says" - focused entirely on his blather posted here, bville, the Forum comments section, and occasional selections from his mumblings on the Minneapolis Star Tribune and Grand Forks Herald's comment sections as well.

It's a big hit - when run together it forms a kind of poetry of the deranged and absurd... it's really quite something to see.

[Darell1976]

Lets get the tribes right. Turtle Mountain is a CHIPPEWA band of Indians. Not Sioux!! What they mean has nothing on this issue except their own member drew the logo. Standing Rock's Archie Fool Bear had a petition signed by 1004 members to put a tribe-wide vote just like at Spirit Lake but the tribal council (knowing it would lose big time, like at Spirit Lake) dismissed the petition and there was NO vote. Archie Fool Bear is also a plaintiff in this case. Also ignore Lakes, he's well Lakes. Also I found this newstory intersting about Florida State who has a white man dress up as a Seminole (the man is NOT a Seminole Indian) and jump on a horse with a flaming spear and stab it in the 50 yard line.
http://www.newson6.com/story/15483585/f ... n-oklahoma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



What's racist in one person's eyes (Lakes for example) is not in others (Spirit Lake Sioux Nation).

Fair points on the tribes - and thanks for the clarification - it's been a few years since I've been up on this nonsense day-to-day...

My point remains - the courts aren't going to stop the NCAA - a private organization - from setting their own rules when UND's membership is VOLUNTARY.

As for Chief Osceola - while individuals may be offended, hardly surprising, the Seminole tribes have signed off on all depictions and uses of both the name and imagery used by the University.

As for dismissing the petition, that is entirely their prerogative... if it bothered tribal members too much, they could have simply voted them out of office... but again, methinks the number people who think this is an issue worth spending time on is small compared to the pressing issues facing the Reservation. (the people who really care about it are largely not a part of the community...)

One thing UND, the Big Sky, and the state should do is pretend nothing has changed, go ahead with the special session on Monday, repeal the state law (giving control back to the SBoHE), retire the name (before NDSU alumn Al Carlson stepped in and f*ed everything up), and leave the trial stuff to the Spirit Lake. Maybe something can be done if SL wins and UND can go back to being called the Fighting Sioux. But if smart Doug Fullerton, President Kelley, and lawmakers should just say no comment.

[Darell1976]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/a ... id/219981/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 2007 settlement agreement that ended UND’s suit against the NCAA, in which UND agreed to drop the Sioux name if it failed to win namesake approval from both tribes, is not a valid settlement because the tribes were not directly involved, said Reed Soderstrom, a Minot attorney representing the Spirit Lake Committee for Understanding and respect.

“If it was (a valid settlement), the NCAA breached it” by refusing to talk with tribal representatives, he said.

Soderstrom said the court “is not scheduling anything until sometime into 2013,” so “this will not be a quick and easy thing.”
But “this is a case we believe we can win,” he said.

There was no immediate response from the NCAA, which in the past has said only that it stands by the 2007 agreement and expects UND — as of Aug. 15 on NCAA sanctions — to drop the name and logo.

1. Should answer the question is UND behind this..answer NO!
2. 2013 is our 2nd year as full DI members and Big Sky members
3. Not surprising

He said he and other attorneys working for the Spirit Lake committee are volunteers, and money being raised by the committee through donations “is being used to educate people” about the ongoing nickname fight. That would include pro-nickname electronic billboards, such as one at a busy Grand Forks intersection.

NO TAXPAYER MONEY!!

John Chaske, a Spirit Lake elder and chairman of the pro-nickname committee, said that it’s because “we take great pride in our Sioux heritage... that we are making a stand against the NCAA.”

He said UND “has represented the Sioux name in an honorable and respectful way for 80 years now,” and the NCAA’s characterization of the nickname as “hostile and abusive” is “a mockery” that disrespects the Sioux people.

The NCAA has allowed “ignorance and arrogance to overshadow common sense,” Chaske said.

Is he a racist??

[slycat]

welcome to RACISM 2011, und hockey nazi' fans USING Native Americans' as puppet's Congrats! (I only use the nazi word because und benefactor ralph e gave $100 million to school and he was a nazi-sympthizer)


at least Standing Rock Tribe has brain cells and see right through all the $$ signs, because they know no one from grand forks gambles at prairie nights.


URSES.& Others. this is the ONLY way und can create exposure for their school, they cant win on the playing field, so they flood the media in north dakota(anti-ndsu) with stories like this everyday attempting to stay on peoples minds.

11% of the SPIRIT LAKE TRIBE VOTED ON THE POLICY YOU DUMB ASSES>

I think many more people know who UND are and not NDSU. Their hockey team has given them that. I know here in Texas I'll see people in UND gear but never NDSU stuff. The people on ESPN couldn't name UNI and NDSU as the #2 and #4 matchup so all your winning is helping people know who you are.

[BisonBacker]

you guys are hilarious. I am just fine, everyone knows that fargo/bismarck/grand forks media is anti-ndsu.
this below is example #48375345 why they are racist's remember this frat/sorority cowboy/indian party?

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IF EVERY major media outlet in your own state can't stand you (by your own admission), including the very town your university resides in, perhaps the problem is YOU, not them?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Fair points on the tribes - and thanks for the clarification - it's been a few years since I've been up on this nonsense day-to-day...

My point remains - the courts aren't going to stop the NCAA - a private organization - from setting their own rules when UND's membership is VOLUNTARY.

As for Chief Osceola - while individuals may be offended, hardly surprising, the Seminole tribes have signed off on all depictions and uses of both the name and imagery used by the University.

As for dismissing the petition, that is entirely their prerogative... if it bothered tribal members too much, they could have simply voted them out of office... but again, methinks the number people who think this is an issue worth spending time on is small compared to the pressing issues facing the Reservation. (the people who really care about it are largely not a part of the community...)

One thing UND, the Big Sky, and the state should do is pretend nothing has changed, go ahead with the special session on Monday, repeal the state law (giving control back to the SBoHE), retire the name (before NDSU alumn Al Carlson stepped in and f*ed everything up), and leave the trial stuff to the Spirit Lake. Maybe something can be done if SL wins and UND can go back to being called the Fighting Sioux. But if smart Doug Fullerton, President Kelley, and lawmakers should just say no comment.

Tactically, I would agree... the amount of time and energy that has been wasted in all of this is insane. UND is getting down to the endgame on this. It's over.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

My point remains - the courts aren't going to stop the NCAA - a private organization - from setting their own rules when UND's membership is VOLUNTARY.


You may be right. They might not make them change their rules. But they may side with the tribe on the discrimination side of the lawsuit and the NCAA may not want that kind of damage to their already lowly reputation. Not to mention having to pay any monetary compensation. The NCAA overstepped their boundaries in this situation and they may have to face the consequences. I thought we lived in a democracy. If you give someone the opportunity to vote and they choose not to, than ultimately their vote does not count. As in this case, if the Standing Rock tribe does not at least hold a vote for the people, than the NCAA should uphold the vote from the Spirit Lake tribe. IMO anyways...

Also, since when does government or the courts bow down to private organizations. Just because they make the rules doesn't make the rules constitutionally correct. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination! Neither is tolerated at any level of the judicial system.

bow down? wtf? the courts are what they are. they interpret the law. the Constitution, and subsequent laws give wide berth to private organizations to conduct their business as they see fit. That won't change with this suit.

As for the NCAA and their reputation - they aren't going to abandon 20 years of work on these nicknames over this. UND is one of only a handful schools digging in so inexplicably hard... the NCAA views pursuing this as important to their image (much as some may disagree with that conclusion)

The NCAA in no way overstepped their boundaries - they have criteria for membership and are demanding they are adhered to. As for the tribe that opted not to hold a referendum on the matter, that is their choice. We DON'T live in a democracy. We live in a republic - a REPRESENTATIVE democracy, where people elect leaders to make decisions - if they don't like them, they vote those leaders out... that's that. At this point, what's done is done... it's so beyond done that it's hard to imagine what possible roadblock to the inevitable will be thrown up next... but I'm sure something will...

[Darell1976]

One thing UND, the Big Sky, and the state should do is pretend nothing has changed, go ahead with the special session on Monday, repeal the state law (giving control back to the SBoHE), retire the name (before NDSU alumn Al Carlson stepped in and f*ed everything up), and leave the trial stuff to the Spirit Lake. Maybe something can be done if SL wins and UND can go back to being called the Fighting Sioux. But if smart Doug Fullerton, President Kelley, and lawmakers should just say no comment.

Tactically, I would agree... the amount of time and energy that has been wasted in all of this is insane. UND is getting down to the endgame on this. It's over.

UND has never sued the NCAA at all. In 2007 it was the State of ND vs the NCAA, now its the Spirit Lake vs the NCAA. So I hope President Kelley is on the phone telling Fullerton we are NOT involved in this lawsuit this is betwen the NCAA and an Indian tribe. Its just a mess that would have been over if Al Carlson would have let UND retire the name like they were going to earlier this year. Thanks AL!!!!!

[Darell1976]

My point remains - the courts aren't going to stop the NCAA - a private organization - from setting their own rules when UND's membership is VOLUNTARY.


You may be right. They might not make them change their rules. But they may side with the tribe on the discrimination side of the lawsuit and the NCAA may not want that kind of damage to their already lowly reputation. Not to mention having to pay any monetary compensation. The NCAA overstepped their boundaries in this situation and they may have to face the consequences. I thought we lived in a democracy. If you give someone the opportunity to vote and they choose not to, than ultimately their vote does not count. As in this case, if the Standing Rock tribe does not at least hold a vote for the people, than the NCAA should uphold the vote from the Spirit Lake tribe. IMO anyways...

Also, since when does government or the courts bow down to private organizations. Just because they make the rules doesn't make the rules constitutionally correct. Racism is racism, discrimination is discrimination! Neither is tolerated at any level of the judicial system.

bow down? wtf? the courts are what they are. they interpret the law. the Constitution, and subsequent laws give wide berth to private organizations to conduct their business as they see fit. That won't change with this suit.

As for the NCAA and their reputation - they aren't going to abandon 20 years of work on these nicknames over this. UND is one of only a handful schools digging in so inexplicably hard... the NCAA views pursuing this as important to their image (much as some may disagree with that conclusion)

The NCAA in no way overstepped their boundaries - they have criteria for membership and are demanding they are adhered to. As for the tribe that opted not to hold a referendum on the matter, that is their choice. We DON'T live in a democracy. We live in a republic - a REPRESENTATIVE democracy, where people elect leaders to make decisions - if they don't like them, they vote those leaders out... that's that. At this point, what's done is done... it's so beyond done that it's hard to imagine what possible roadblock to the inevitable will be thrown up next... but I'm sure something will...

Just like on the Reservations.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

bow down? wtf? the courts are what they are. they interpret the law. the Constitution, and subsequent laws give wide berth to private organizations to conduct their business as they see fit. That won't change with this suit.

As for the NCAA and their reputation - they aren't going to abandon 20 years of work on these nicknames over this. UND is one of only a handful schools digging in so inexplicably hard... the NCAA views pursuing this as important to their image (much as some may disagree with that conclusion)

The NCAA in no way overstepped their boundaries - they have criteria for membership and are demanding they are adhered to. As for the tribe that opted not to hold a referendum on the matter, that is their choice. We DON'T live in a democracy. We live in a republic - a REPRESENTATIVE democracy, where people elect leaders to make decisions - if they don't like them, they vote those leaders out... that's that. At this point, what's done is done... it's so beyond done that it's hard to imagine what possible roadblock to the inevitable will be thrown up next... but I'm sure something will...

Just like on the Reservations.

Precisely my point... this suit may pass the laugh test, but only just barely.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Tactically, I would agree... the amount of time and energy that has been wasted in all of this is insane. UND is getting down to the endgame on this. It's over.

UND has never sued the NCAA at all. In 2007 it was the State of ND vs the NCAA, now its the Spirit Lake vs the NCAA. So I hope President Kelley is on the phone telling Fullerton we are NOT involved in this lawsuit this is betwen the NCAA and an Indian tribe. Its just a mess that would have been over if Al Carlson would have let UND retire the name like they were going to earlier this year. Thanks AL!!!!!

I'm not saying one way or another as to whether UND has been behind some of these measures... oddly, as an institution, I've suspected for over a decade they'd just like this to be over... but their "supporters" and "boosters" have been the ones "doing things on their behalf" that often make you think "with friends like these..."

[Darell1976]

UND has never sued the NCAA at all. In 2007 it was the State of ND vs the NCAA, now its the Spirit Lake vs the NCAA. So I hope President Kelley is on the phone telling Fullerton we are NOT involved in this lawsuit this is betwen the NCAA and an Indian tribe. Its just a mess that would have been over if Al Carlson would have let UND retire the name like they were going to earlier this year. Thanks AL!!!!!

I'm not saying one way or another as to whether UND has been behind some of these measures... oddly, as an institution, I've suspected for over a decade they'd just like this to be over... but their "supporters" and "boosters" have been the ones "doing things on their behalf" that often make you think "with friends like these..."

I have emailed President Kelley earlier this year right when the Big Sky letter came out in the press, and he responded (I was surprised to get a response from him), and he is looking out for UND as a whole including the athletic department. He doesn't want to lose out on the BSC membership and I think he wants to do whats best for the school even if it means losing the nickname and logo. I am sure we will have comments from everyone soon.

[lakesbison]

http://64.38.12.138/News/2008/008314.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

everything on that page and the und bridges page says it all.


the SPIRIT LAKE 9 that are presenting this lawsuit and PUPPETS for und hockey fans who are trying desperatly to save it, its the ultimate racism to USE SOMEONE. no one at und gives a shit about what happens on the reservation, they just want the nickname.

also, Spirit Lake was threatened by und fans that "we wont goto their casino and spend money" spirit lake needs grand forks money. Plus 11% of the spirit lake sioux cannot speak for the other Sioux Tribes across the nation, its against their tradition to "mettle' or 'dictate other sioux tribes"

STANDING ROCK DOESNT NEED GRAND FORKS MONEY. there you go, case closed.

[northernfire]

(This is in response to some particular nauseating posts I see again and again regarding a certain nickname issue.)
In college I/we studied in depth the following:
a--The strategies of tank warfare masterminded by Field General Erwin Rommel also known as The Desert Fox
b--The zealous oratory and anti-Semitism propaganda of Joseph Goebbels Reich Minister of Propaganda and his effects on WWII Europe
c--The Blitz Krieg warfare of Hermann Goring, Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe
d--Guerrilla warfare techniques of Geronimo and Cochise
e--Land warfare and deception strategies of: Red Cloud, Black Elk, Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse
f--Evasive maneuvers by Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce etc. etc. etc.
So, according to some particular individuals who have slanted and twisted logic toward a particular North Dakota University then then those of us who graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point are: Nazi sympathizers and racist hating bigots toward Native Americans. Unreal!