Does anyone believe JMU is better than Delaware?

[henfan]

O'Day made it pretty clear yesterday - they've never taken a team with less than 7 D-1 wins as an at-large and UD didn't have the 7, that's UD's fault end of story.

Asking who would win if the 2 teams played is irrelevant.

It was mentioned in our radio broadcast that Idaho got in with a 6-5 record in 1995.

Idaho won the Big Sky in '95, which is how they got in. They weren't selected for an at-large, which was Bill's point.

[BlueHen86]

I agree with you 100% here. The committee should give at large bids to the 10 most best teams available, ruling a team out because they played a D-II is dumb. Sometimes you have to schedule a D-II just to fill out an 11 game schedule.

No one was ruled out because they played a DII. Montana and Montana St. both played a DII (and a BCS) and still won 8 D1 games. Delaware was ruled out because they didn't win enough of their DI games. The same thing happened to Montana last year. We accepted it and moved on. UD should too. Get better; don't lose so many games.

The lack of comprehension on here is amazing. At no point did I make this about the Hens or try and make excuses, yet because I'm a UD poster people have to read into things.

Lets try this again for the slower people on here. Arbitrarily not counting a D-II game is dumb. D-II is just a label that says nothing about how good the team actually is, as is D-III, FBS or FCS. Just evaluate the team based on the quality of teams they played. If they played a D-II powerhouse they should get more credit than playing the worst FCS team out there. It's really pretty simple. If you disagree please explain why, but try and stay relevant, this isn't a UD or Montana issue, it's about a rule that affects everyone.

[BlueHen86]

O'Day made it pretty clear yesterday - they've never taken a team with less than 7 D-1 wins as an at-large and UD didn't have the 7, that's UD's fault end of story.

Asking who would win if the 2 teams played is irrelevant.

[GannonFan]

No one was ruled out because they played a DII. Montana and Montana St. both played a DII (and a BCS) and still won 8 D1 games. Delaware was ruled out because they didn't win enough of their DI games. The same thing happened to Montana last year. We accepted it and moved on. UD should too. Get better; don't lose so many games.

The lack of comprehension on here is amazing. At no point did I make this about the Hens or try and make excuses, yet because I'm a UD poster people have to read into things.

Lets try this again for the slower people on here. Arbitrarily not counting a D-II game is dumb. D-II is just a label that says nothing about how good the team actually is, as is D-III, FBS or FCS. Just evaluate the team based on the quality of teams they played. If they played a D-II powerhouse they should get more credit than playing the worst FCS team out there. It's really pretty simple. If you disagree please explain why, but try and stay relevant, this isn't a UD or Montana issue, it's about a rule that affects everyone.

of course the DII rule is dumb - we could've just played Delaware St back to back and made the DI requirement and would've had an easier schedule to boot (West Chester would be a 2 TD favorite over Del St, and Del St isn't even the worst FCS team out there). But no matter how dumb the guideline is, it's there and we should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

[BlueHen86]

The lack of comprehension on here is amazing. At no point did I make this about the Hens or try and make excuses, yet because I'm a UD poster people have to read into things.

Lets try this again for the slower people on here. Arbitrarily not counting a D-II game is dumb. D-II is just a label that says nothing about how good the team actually is, as is D-III, FBS or FCS. Just evaluate the team based on the quality of teams they played. If they played a D-II powerhouse they should get more credit than playing the worst FCS team out there. It's really pretty simple. If you disagree please explain why, but try and stay relevant, this isn't a UD or Montana issue, it's about a rule that affects everyone.

of course the DII rule is dumb - we could've just played Delaware St back to back and made the DI requirement and would've had an easier schedule to boot (West Chester would be a 2 TD favorite over Del St, and Del St isn't even the worst FCS team out there). But no matter how dumb the guideline is, it's there and we should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I agree 100%, and I have said so more times than can remember. If UD was 11-0 and the top seed, I'd say the same thing about this guideline.

[AZGrizFan]

of course the DII rule is dumb - we could've just played Delaware St back to back and made the DI requirement and would've had an easier schedule to boot (West Chester would be a 2 TD favorite over Del St, and Del St isn't even the worst FCS team out there). But no matter how dumb the guideline is, it's there and we should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I agree 100%, and I have said so more times than can remember. If UD was 11-0 and the top seed, I'd say the same thing about this guideline.

While I agree (in principle) with your point regarding the potential relative strength of D-II vs crappy FCS programs, it begs the question: With the plethora of crappy FCS teams East of the Appalachains, why would a good FCS program like Delaware would EVER schedule a D-II?

Many D-II's in the western US would defeat the majority of the MEAC, PL, Pioneer, & NEC leagues....that still doesn't make them counters.

Added note: I REALLY dislike the dichotomy that a BCS school can count an FCS victory towards bowl eligibility, but an FCS school can't count a D-II win towards playoff eligibility.

[DSUrocks07]

I agree 100%, and I have said so more times than can remember. If UD was 11-0 and the top seed, I'd say the same thing about this guideline.

While I agree (in principle) with your point regarding the potential relative strength of D-II vs crappy FCS programs, it begs the question: With the plethora of crappy FCS teams East of the Appalachains, why would a good FCS program like Delaware would EVER schedule a D-II?

Many D-II's in the western US would defeat the majority of the MEAC, PL, Pioneer, & NEC leagues....that still doesn't make them counters.

Added note: I REALLY dislike the dichotomy that a BCS school can count an FCS victory towards bowl eligibility, but an FCS school can't count a D-II win towards playoff eligibility.

Agreed.

[DJH]

Its different in FBS, because a) who gives a fuck about those bowls, and b) there are like 80 bowl slots while there are only 20 playoffs spots in FCS.

[DSUrocks07]

of course the DII rule is dumb - we could've just played Delaware St back to back and made the DI requirement and would've had an easier schedule to boot (West Chester would be a 2 TD favorite over Del St, and Del St isn't even the worst FCS team out there). But no matter how dumb the guideline is, it's there and we should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Quick! Someone get on the phone with the WCU athletic department and convince them to fast track up to D1. Im sure the CAA would love to have such a dominant program within their ranks; ignoring the fact that D2 schools have advantages in regards to academic qualifications and such, compared to lower level D1s. Look at Winston-Salem for example, 1-10 it's last year in the MEAC, went back down to the CIAA and they're undefeated with a #1 regional seed in the D2 playoffs. But I assume that WCU gives UD the proper tune-up for the rigors of CAA play...

But regardless, the premise of this thread is flawed from the start and smells of sour grapes.

[BlueHen86]

I agree 100%, and I have said so more times than can remember. If UD was 11-0 and the top seed, I'd say the same thing about this guideline.

While I agree (in principle) with your point regarding the potential relative strength of D-II vs crappy FCS programs, it begs the question: With the plethora of crappy FCS teams East of the Appalachains, why would a good FCS program like Delaware would EVER schedule a D-II?

Many D-II's in the western US would defeat the majority of the MEAC, PL, Pioneer, & NEC leagues....that still doesn't make them counters.

Added note: I REALLY dislike the dichotomy that a BCS school can count an FCS victory towards bowl eligibility, but an FCS school can't count a D-II win towards playoff eligibility.

It's a rivalry back from when both schools were D-II and West Chester doesn't mind travelling to Newark every year. This was never an issue when the field was 16 teams because you needed to be 8-3 to get into the playoffs. An 8-3 UD team would have the 7 D-I wins even if they played West Chester. Now that 7-4 might be good enough, UD can't afford to play West Chester.

UD should have stopped this rivalry once the field expanded to 20 teams.

[clenz]

I agree 100%, and I have said so more times than can remember. If UD was 11-0 and the top seed, I'd say the same thing about this guideline.

While I agree (in principle) with your point regarding the potential relative strength of D-II vs crappy FCS programs, it begs the question: With the plethora of crappy FCS teams East of the Appalachains, why would a good FCS program like Delaware would EVER schedule a D-II?

Many D-II's in the western US would defeat the majority of the MEAC, PL, Pioneer, & NEC leagues....that still doesn't make them counters.

Added note: I REALLY dislike the dichotomy that a BCS school can count an FCS victory towards bowl eligibility, but an FCS school can't count a D-II win towards playoff eligibility.

Um....because FCS is D1 and their rule is D1 wins...

Added note only 1 FCS game counts per year.

[GannonFan]

Quick! Someone get on the phone with the WCU athletic department and convince them to fast track up to D1. Im sure the CAA would love to have such a dominant program within their ranks; ignoring the fact that D2 schools have advantages in regards to academic qualifications and such, compared to lower level D1s. Look at Winston-Salem for example, 1-10 it's last year in the MEAC, went back down to the CIAA and they're undefeated with a #1 regional seed in the D2 playoffs. But I assume that WCU gives UD the proper tune-up for the rigors of CAA play...

But regardless, the premise of this thread is flawed from the start and smells of sour grapes.

See, the bolded part is the problem with your argument. Why would you think West Chester is a dominant program? Just being a two-TD favorite over Delaware St would barely qualify them as a compenent football team. You need to be a 3-4 TD favorite over DSU to be considered dominant.

[alvin kayak]

If I were an AD, I would not schedule a D-II or D-I FBS team (like an SEC team). MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. Cough* Furman

[henfan]

The WCUPA game would have likely burned UD in '99 as well if they had defeated 'Nova in the season finale. Some UD fans were after the school to cancel that stinker of a game then. Alas, the UD didn't learn their lesson then and deserve everything they got this season.

If the goal of an FCS FB program is to make the playoffs and put itself in a position to win a NC, it makes zero sense to schedule FBS or sub-D-I teams except in emergency situations. If your AD is hurting so bad that it would potentially sacrifice a shot at the playoffs for a few bucks, perhaps it's time to reconsider the commitment to playing at this level. In UD's case, it's not a case of making a few bucks, so much as it is cronyism, penny pinching, sheer laziness and perpetuating phony tradition.

[89Hen]

But regardless, the premise of this thread is flawed from the start and smells of sour grapes.

To be fair, it was started by a poster with less than 80 posts here and I think the regular Hen fans here have been very realistic about this.

[kemajic]

It was mentioned in our radio broadcast that Idaho got in with a 6-5 record in 1995.

Idaho won the Big Sky in '95, which is how they got in. They weren't selected for an at-large, which was Bill's point.

That is incorrect. NC Montana won the BSC outright with a 6-1 conf. record (loss was at Idaho) and was the autobid; Idaho was 4-3 in conf., tied for second. They beat both Montana and Boise St (loser in the '94 NC game), which is probably the reason they were picked for an at-large. Bad choice; McNeese killed them in the opening round. BSC 1995 standings:

Montana 6-1
Boise St. 4-3
Idaho 4-3
N. AZ 4-3
Weber 4-3
Idaho St. 3-4
MT St. 2-5
E. Wash 1-6