Predict The Divisionals..

[Silenoz]

Fuck that, Niners aren't giving up 160 yards to Nicks. Harbaugh Bowl II for the trophy

And stop talking about Tebow. You guys only help perpetuate that shit

[Vidav]

Fuck that, Niners aren't giving up 160 yards to Nicks. Harbaugh Bowl II for the trophy

And stop talking about Tebow. You guys only help perpetuate that shit

Yup.

[SuperHornet]

grizza,

It seems that you're forgetting LAST week. Tebow CAN throw if he's given time AND the receivers actually get open and catch the ball. Just like any other NFL QB. Tebow's main problems are that he has no OL to speak of in terms of pass pro and no receivers beyond Decker and Thomas. His supposed "accuracy" issues? At least one commentator has already stated that THAT is a refusal to throw an interception. That is, if there appears to be an issue of whether or not he can get it there, he'll throw it away. That's in stark contrast to a certain is he or isn't he retired player who would constantly force it and throw picks all day long.

The problem is that SOME people can't abide a running quarterback. The same questions came up when Staubach, Tarkenton, Cunningham, and Young came along. People want to see a guy just stand there and take punishment all day long. Not every guy is like that. Sorry. Just not human nature. Quarterbacks aren't robots. Remember that Tebow's ascendancy took place during the course of the regular season. Give him a full training camp as the designated starter with control of a FULL playbook and a decent roster, and he can be successful. The option becomes what it's supposed to be: one tool among a bunch in the tool box, not the entire basis of the offense. One thing they'll probably see in the NE film is that NE was stuffing speed option. If they switch to an I-formation based option (or at least the APPEARANCE of the triple option) so that the defense has to defend the dive BEFORE they overwhelm the pitch (perhaps even throwing in the G option where one pulls the front-side guard or a load option (either skipping the dive so the FB takes out the EMOL or using Power I or a winged I to take out the EMOL) and a lot of the issues the Broncos experienced would go away. Again, when the option can be used as a tool alongside dive, stretch, power, toss sweep, and a full-fledged passing game, it can be successful so long as the expectations are correct. That means one expects 5-12 yards each time as opposed to the 50 yards Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas used to get. Did anyone see how the SF game ended? It was a full-fledged QB sweep that came off of what was nearly option action. That's very similar to what Denver's been doing. Why? Alex Smith and Tim Tebow had the same college coach. Thus, it stands to reason that they have similar capabilities. Remember that people were howling for Smith's head for seven years before this year's success happened. If he can have success after that kind of time, Tebow deserves the same courtesy.

Have you watched any of his games? His low incompletion % isnt from throwing passes away all day, its from bad throws.

If you actually believe THAT then you haven't been listening to one of the best QBs who ever played the game AND has a SB ring....

[SuperHornet]

Rodgers looks human today...

Maybe. One also has to figure in the fact that his receivers (aside from veteran Donald Driver) had a collective case of the dropsies AND his RBs couldn't hold onto the ball either. In addition, Packer momentum seemed to stop as soon as they lost that ill-advised surprise onside kick.

[clenz]

Brady isn't God, Vidav.

Nope, he just makes pacts with the Devil.

Getting by on passes to Welker and Gronkowski may well not be enough.

3 TDs and 145 yards for Gronk!

He was right...the 145 that Brady sent to Gronk wouldn't ahve been enough....it was that other 200 that did it.

[clenz]

grizza,

It seems that you're forgetting LAST week. Tebow CAN throw if he's given time AND the receivers actually get open and catch the ball. Just like any other NFL QB. Tebow's main problems are that he has no OL to speak of in terms of pass pro and no receivers beyond Decker and Thomas. His supposed "accuracy" issues? At least one commentator has already stated that THAT is a refusal to throw an interception. That is, if there appears to be an issue of whether or not he can get it there, he'll throw it away. That's in stark contrast to a certain is he or isn't he retired player who would constantly force it and throw picks all day long.

The problem is that SOME people can't abide a running quarterback. The same questions came up when Staubach, Tarkenton, Cunningham, and Young came along. People want to see a guy just stand there and take punishment all day long. Not every guy is like that. Sorry. Just not human nature. Quarterbacks aren't robots. Remember that Tebow's ascendancy took place during the course of the regular season. Give him a full training camp as the designated starter with control of a FULL playbook and a decent roster, and he can be successful. The option becomes what it's supposed to be: one tool among a bunch in the tool box, not the entire basis of the offense. One thing they'll probably see in the NE film is that NE was stuffing speed option. If they switch to an I-formation based option (or at least the APPEARANCE of the triple option) so that the defense has to defend the dive BEFORE they overwhelm the pitch (perhaps even throwing in the G option where one pulls the front-side guard or a load option (either skipping the dive so the FB takes out the EMOL or using Power I or a winged I to take out the EMOL) and a lot of the issues the Broncos experienced would go away. Again, when the option can be used as a tool alongside dive, stretch, power, toss sweep, and a full-fledged passing game, it can be successful so long as the expectations are correct. That means one expects 5-12 yards each time as opposed to the 50 yards Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas used to get. Did anyone see how the SF game ended? It was a full-fledged QB sweep that came off of what was nearly option action. That's very similar to what Denver's been doing. Why? Alex Smith and Tim Tebow had the same college coach. Thus, it stands to reason that they have similar capabilities. Remember that people were howling for Smith's head for seven years before this year's success happened. If he can have success after that kind of time, Tebow deserves the same courtesy.

He can't throw you dim-witted clodplate.

Look at his stats...46.5 completion %....FOURTY SIX PERCENT!....Hell, even Ryan Leaf was better than that. He completed just 40...FREAKING FOURTY....percent of his passes in the playoffs.

Look at last week to prove he can throw? You mean when was 10-21? Tebow is getting a fuck ton of credit for his WR out running a defense that had 10 guys in the box after a 5 yard screen play....He's getting a ton of credit for his defense and his kicker bailing his ass out game after fucking game.

Name me one QB...fucking ONE....that started his career out completing less than 50% of his passes, with terrible throwing mechanics, no play recognition ability....basically nothing other than being "likable"....that turned out to be worth a damn.

His stats, outside of the interceptions, are very very strikingly close to Ryan Leaf. If he wasn't this "pop star" because of the media through his college career he wouldn't have a job anywhere.

Fuck...name me one QB who had the throwing stats of Tim Tebow at any point in their career that kept their job.

[clenz]

Have you watched any of his games? His low incompletion % isnt from throwing passes away all day, its from bad throws.

If you actually believe THAT then you haven't been listening to one of the best QBs who ever played the game AND has a SB ring....

Have you watched his throws? I know you don't have cable, but have you ever watched him throw the ball..

[youtube][/youtube]

On this video there is
0:00 incomplete, intended for Lloyd, throw too low and away
0:22 incomplete, intended for Gaffney, overthrow under pressure
1:00 33-yd touchdown to Lloyd, spectacular catch by Lloyd
3:20 incomplete, intended for Royal, throw up for grabs
4:03 22-yd completion, back shoulder lob to Lloyd, nice throw
4:45 incomplete, intended for Lloyd, defensive pass interference
5:38 19-yd completion, deep out to Lloyd, great throw
6:20 incomplete, intended for Ball, great throw, dropped by Ball
7:08 Gus Johnson commentary
7:40 32-yd completion to Gaffney, great throw
8:30 incomplete, intended for Lloyd, thrown out of endzone
9:04 5-yd completion to Lloyd (tipped?)

10 attempts downfield (not counting that last 5 yarder)
4 completions
1 drop by Lance Ball
1 pass interference on a shaky throw
[youtube][/youtube]

Keep in mind on this next video...Tebow has gone back to his old motion....
[youtube][/youtube]


[youtube][/youtube]



Do you want me to keep going?

[grizzaholic]

Clenz. Clenz. Clenz. It was a post by SH. RELAX. Wait until PFL comes back before you blow your entire load.

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

49'ERS - Their D is good enough to win.
PATRIOTS - The Denver Donkeys dicks road ends here.
RAVENS - Texans don't have enough to get by the Ravens.
GIANTS - Screw the fudge packers and all their bandwagoners.

Hahaha suck it! Got em all, no crow for me this week.

[SuperHornet]

clenz: The only stat that means anything is Ws. The others are for crap. Tebow is better than .500. There are "elites" like Eli who started out sub-.500.

[SuperHornet]

Oh, and just a few years ago, Alex Smith had a completion percentage of 48.7%, not much better than what you're condemning Tebow for, and Smith is now on the verge of going to the Super Bowl. And, in his first year, Smith's QB rating was all of 40.8.

You don't have much to stand on other than vitriol and irrational hatred, now, do you?

[Vidav]

Oh, and just a few years ago, Alex Smith had a completion percentage of 48.7%, not much better than what you're condemning Tebow for, and Smith is now on the verge of going to the Super Bowl. And, in his first year, Smith's QB rating was all of 40.8.

You don't have much to stand on other than vitriol and irrational hatred, now, do you?

Also on Tebow being shitty.

[grizzaholic]

Oh, and just a few years ago, Alex Smith had a completion percentage of 48.7%, not much better than what you're condemning Tebow for, and Smith is now on the verge of going to the Super Bowl. And, in his first year, Smith's QB rating was all of 40.8.

You don't have much to stand on other than vitriol and irrational hatred, now, do you?

Now, Now. Calm down. You seem to be channeling your inner JBB here. You aren't gonna go all JBB on us with your new user bar, and start posting hermies from other sports that went into porn, are ya?

[Seahawks08]

Yes. Tebow is a terrible passing QB. But let's remember something: he took the Broncos (who should have only won 3-4 games) to the playoffs. Somehow, he uplifted the team (both offense and defense) with a terrible roster. Seriously, they have the worst WRs in the league and no TE. I would have loved to see someone like Brady start the season with this Denver team and bring them to the playoffs. And FWIW, the broncos had no business beating the Steelers, who are superior to them on both O and D. But somehow they did it. If Quinn or Orton started that game, they most likely don't win. I get it is just one season, but what Tebow did to this team was amazing. Sadly, I think it goes downhill from here unless they actually get some playmakers on offense.

[SuperHornet]

No, grizza. I'm not JaBBer. I have my beliefs and I'm not going to let a nincompoop like clenz or Willie bully me out of it. That's all.

Incidentally, I see no response from either of them re my assessment of what happened to the Packers today. What say you, grizza?

[bluehenbillk]

I was a mediocre 2-2 over the weekend.

Go Ravens!

[grizzaholic]

No, grizza. I'm not JaBBer. I have my beliefs and I'm not going to let a nincompoop like clenz or Willie bully me out of it. That's all.

Incidentally, I see no response from either of them re my assessment of what happened to the Packers today. What say you, grizza?

nincompoop???? Pretty harsh SH. Pretty harsh.


I didn't watch the game. I was busy.

[clenz]

Yes. Tebow is a terrible passing QB. But let's remember something: he took the Broncos (who should have only won 3-4 games) to the playoffs. Somehow, he uplifted the team (both offense and defense) with a terrible roster. Seriously, they have the worst WRs in the league and no TE. I would have loved to see someone like Brady start the season with this Denver team and bring them to the playoffs. And FWIW, the broncos had no business beating the Steelers, who are superior to them on both O and D. But somehow they did it. If Quinn or Orton started that game, they most likely don't win. I get it is just one season, but what Tebow did to this team was amazing. Sadly, I think it goes downhill from here unless they actually get some playmakers on offense.

He didn't take them anywhere.

The defense and kicker took them to where they got. That defense was one of the best in the NFL this year, and without the defense having a 8-10 week stretch where they gave up about 15ppg Denver would have been a 3 win team as Tebow's offense scored about 18 ppg during that stretch.

You want to see what a good QB does to a shit roster, look at Indianapolis. They go from a 13-14 win team with Manning to a 2-3 win team without him. A good QB can make average/bad WR good. Hell, Brady is known for making his WR who are all posession WR with no big name anywhere they've been except NE into pro bowlers and at times made them look like HOFers.

You want to know why people are all of a sudden on Alex Smith's back saying he's good...because he defense and running game has carried him. He had a good season though...completing over 61% of his passes, throwing 17TDs, and for the third year in a row completed 60% of his passes or more.


Smith's first three years he was treated worse than Michael Vick's dogs. Denver completely reinvented their offense for Tebow....SF just kept giving Smith new coaching staffs.

Here's the other difference between Smith and Tebow....Smith can throw the ball. Tebow, as hard as he tries, can't. There is plenty of evidence to prove he is probably the worst pocket passer in the NFL....and he is worse throwing off the run.


I don't see Tebow ever being what Rex Grossman is in terms of a passer....let alone top half.

[Gil Dobie]

Tebow reminds me of Bobby Douglas.

[Seahawks08]

Oh sorry, I didn't know teams could play without the QB position.

And I love the Colts and Manning being dragged into this. Even without Manning, Waynes and Garcon are more dangerous threats than Decker and Thomas. Hell, they even have Dallas Clark. Do you even know who the Denver TE is?

As for the NE comment, it's the system more than Brady. Even Matt Cassel made the WRs and TEs look good.

Smith can throw the ball

That's debatable. There were some passes against NO where he looked like Tebow.

[clenz]

Oh sorry, I didn't know teams could play without the QB position.

And I love the Colts and Manning being dragged into this. Even without Manning, Waynes and Garcon are more dangerous threats than Decker and Thomas. Hell, they even have Dallas Clark. Do you even know who the Denver TE is?

As for the NE comment, it's the system more than Brady. Even Matt Cassel made the WRs and TEs look good.

Smith can throw the ball

That's debatable. There were some passes against NO where he looked like Tebow.

Do you see a difference between "some passes look bad" vs "one, maybe two, passes a game look good"



What makes Garcon a better target than those? He set a career high in catches this year with 70....it's not his fault 40+ year old Kerry Collins and Curtis Painter are better QB's that can throw the ball....it's not his fault he had as many catches at Tebow had completions (yes I'm aware that isn't true, but not far off as it's less than 100 completions away. The only reason you know Garcon is because ESPN hyped those Colts teams with Manning like crazy because Manning made that roster great. Look at it...2 wins this year and a playoff team last year....The roster is mostly unchanged the last decade or so....except one key person this past year.

Dallas Clark is a good TE.

[89Hen]

Saints
Packers
Broncos
Texans (on the fence on this one)

[93henfan]

Saints
Packers
Broncos
Texans (on the fence on this one)

This. There's losing, and then there's spectacularly bad. Those picks were spectacularly bad.

[89Hen]

At least he was on the fence on one of them.

[BDKJMU]

Yes. Tebow is a terrible passing QB. But let's remember something: he took the Broncos (who should have only won 3-4 games) to the playoffs. Somehow, he uplifted the team (both offense and defense) with a terrible roster. Seriously, they have the worst WRs in the league and no TE. I would have loved to see someone like Brady start the season with this Denver team and bring them to the playoffs. And FWIW, the broncos had no business beating the Steelers, who are superior to them on both O and D. But somehow they did it. If Quinn or Orton started that game, they most likely don't win. I get it is just one season, but what Tebow did to this team was amazing. Sadly, I think it goes downhill from here unless they actually get some playmakers on offense.

He didn't take them anywhere.

The defense and kicker took them to where they got. That defense was one of the best in the NFL this year, and without the defense having a 8-10 week stretch where they gave up about 15ppg Denver would have been a 3 win team as Tebow's offense scored about 18 ppg during that stretch.

You want to see what a good QB does to a **** roster, look at Indianapolis. They go from a 13-14 win team with Manning to a 2-3 win team without him. A good QB can make average/bad WR good. Hell, Brady is known for making his WR who are all posession WR with no big name anywhere they've been except NE into pro bowlers and at times made them look like HOFers.

You want to know why people are all of a sudden on Alex Smith's back saying he's good...because he defense and running game has carried him. He had a good season though...completing over 61% of his passes, throwing 17TDs, and for the third year in a row completed 60% of his passes or more.


Smith's first three years he was treated worse than Michael Vick's dogs. Denver completely reinvented their offense for Tebow....SF just kept giving Smith new coaching staffs.

Here's the other difference between Smith and Tebow....Smith can throw the ball. Tebow, as hard as he tries, can't. There is plenty of evidence to prove he is probably the worst pocket passer in the NFL....and he is worse throwing off the run.


I don't see Tebow ever being what Rex Grossman is in terms of a passer....let alone top half.

I'm not going to argue Tebow here but you're wrong on the Denver defense being one of the best in the league. The Denver de was mediocre at best. Regular season 20th in Total Defense:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... asontype/2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Points per game were evn worse: 24th.