Ohio State now attempting to legalize cheating

[CitadelGrad]

Or it could be...that...they all say they wish they'd done more and it's pretty clear every one knew.

Yep. Evidently neither of these morons watched what Paterno had to say to reporters yesterday.

I know exactly what Paterno said. He said he knew nothing about the '98 investigation.

[UNI88]

A bunch of people supposedly knowing about ONE person allegedly doing stupid stuff is NOT the same thing as a bunch of people doing stupid stuff, even if that one person is supposedly doing unconscionable things.

Completely & utterly reprehensible would have been a better word choice than stupid here.

I like Penn St and I think Joe Pa was one of the greatest coaches in the history of sports but for him to fail to exert his authority on that campus and make sure this matter was properly investigated and to protect innocent children will cast a pall on his legacy that will likely never go away.

[SuperHornet]

One of the problems with the mandatory reporter law is that mandatory reporters have to KNOW that they're mandatory reporters. They also have to know what the responsibility entails. That implies annual training. One would have to examine the Penn State HR training plan to see if that was actually done. If it wasn't, Paterno is off the hook, IMO.

[Willie]

One of the problems with the mandatory reporter law is that mandatory reporters have to KNOW that they're mandatory reporters. They also have to know what the responsibility entails. That implies annual training. One would have to examine the Penn State HR training plan to see if that was actually done. If it wasn't, Paterno is off the hook, IMO.

Stop making fucking excuses for the guy. He and the others that knew are to blame as well, PERIOD.

[SuperHornet]

No, Willie. That's YOUR opinion. Don't force it on us. You don't have that power, so stop. PLEASE.

[Willie]

DO YOU NOT READ THE NEWSPAPER? OR WATCH THE NEWS? Sweet Jesus Christ. Paterno KNEW. McQueary KNEW...and they did what? Oh yeah, nothing.

Wait. I take that back. I've made EVERY fucking thing I've said up. Me me me me me. Yup more me.

For the love of fucking God, either become educated on the subject, or log the fuck out.

[clenz]

DO YOU NOT READ THE NEWSPAPER? OR WATCH THE NEWS? Sweet Jesus Christ. Paterno KNEW. McQueary KNEW...and they did what? Oh yeah, nothing.

Wait. I take that back. I've made EVERY fucking thing I've said up. Me me me me me. Yup more me.

For the love of fucking God, either become educated on the subject, or log the fuck out.

There is a reason that basically all of PSU was fucking gutted after this came out....EVERYONE KNEW AND DIDN'T DO SHIT.

I don't give a fuck he didn't coach there after 99...they knew and did nothing to stop it from happening ON FUCKING CAMPUS....AFTER HE WASN'T COACHING THERE ANYMORE.


I thought Jesus people thought children were sacred and needed to be protected.....and that freaking pedophiles and criminals didn't need to be protected.

[UNI88]

One of the problems with the mandatory reporter law is that mandatory reporters have to KNOW that they're mandatory reporters. They also have to know what the responsibility entails. That implies annual training. One would have to examine the Penn State HR training plan to see if that was actually done. If it wasn't, Paterno is off the hook, IMO.

The issue isn't whether he broke the law it's whether he did the right thing. If a person in a position of authority (and who on Penn St's campus had more influence & authority than Paterno?) even suspects that something like that is going on than they have a moral obligation to report it and to make sure it is investigated. Paterno might have reported it but he didn't follow through to make sure it was fully investigated and to make sure it didn't happen again.

[rkwittem]

Hey Willie, can you rename the thread "Ohio State attempts to legalize cheating while Penn State attempts to justify child sex crimes?"

[clenz]

One of the problems with the mandatory reporter law is that mandatory reporters have to KNOW that they're mandatory reporters. They also have to know what the responsibility entails. That implies annual training. One would have to examine the Penn State HR training plan to see if that was actually done. If it wasn't, Paterno is off the hook, IMO.

SH....you need to get a fucking clue what the actual laws of madatory reporting are. I am a mandatory reporter, I sat through hours of training - and that "certification" is good for 5 years....and to enroll in class all you have to do is find one and take it. You don't need special jobs or anything.

From http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... /manda.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands have statutes identifying persons who are required to report child maltreatment under specific circumstances.

Professionals Required to Report

Approximately 48 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands designate professions whose members are mandated by law to report child maltreatment.1 Individuals designated as mandatory reporters typically have frequent contact with children. Such individuals may include:

Social workers
Teachers and other school personnel
Physicians and other health-care workers
Mental health professionals
Child care providers
Medical examiners or coroners
Law enforcement officers
Some other professions frequently mandated across the States include commercial film or photograph processors (in 11 States, Guam, and Puerto Rico), substance abuse counselors (in 14 States), and probation or parole officers (in 17 States).2 Seven States and the District of Columbia include domestic violence workers on the list of mandated reporters, while seven States and the District of Columbia include animal control or humane officers.3 Court-appointed special advocates are mandatory reporters in nine States.4 Members of the clergy now are required to report in 26 States.5

Reporting by Other Persons - NOT JUST THOSE WHO ARE REPORTERS BY CERTIFICATION

In approximately 18 States and Puerto Rico, any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report. Of these 18 States, 16 States and Puerto Rico specify certain professionals who must report but also require all persons to report suspected abuse or neglect, regardless of profession.6 New Jersey and Wyoming require all persons to report without specifying any professions. In all other States, territories, and the District of Columbia, any person is permitted to report. These voluntary reporters of abuse are often referred to as "permissive reporters."

Standards for Making a Report

The circumstances under which a mandatory reporter must make a report vary from State to State. Typically, a report must be made when the reporter, in his or her official capacity, suspects or has reasons to believe that a child has been abused or neglected. Another standard frequently used is when the reporter has knowledge of, or observes a child being subjected to, conditions that would reasonably result in harm to the child. Permissive reporters follow the same standards when electing to make a report.

Privileged Communications

Mandatory reporting statutes also may specify when a communication is privileged. "Privileged communications" is the statutory recognition of the right to maintain confidential communications between professionals and their clients, patients, or congregants. To enable States to provide protection to maltreated children, the reporting laws in most States and territories restrict this privilege for mandated reporters. All but three States and Puerto Rico currently address the issue of privileged communications within their reporting laws, either affirming the privilege or denying it (i.e., not allowing privilege to be grounds for failing to report).7 For instance:

The physician-patient and husband-wife privileges are the most common to be denied by States.
The attorney-client privilege is most commonly affirmed.
The clergy-penitent privilege is also widely affirmed, although that privilege usually is limited to confessional communications and, in some States, denied altogether.8
Inclusion of the Reporter's Name in the Report

Most States maintain toll-free telephone numbers for receiving reports of abuse or neglect.9 Reports may be made anonymously to most of these reporting numbers, but States find it helpful to their investigations to know the identity of reporters. Approximately 18 States, the District of Columbia, American Samoa, Guam, and the Virgin Islands currently require mandatory reporters to provide their names and contact information, either at the time of the initial oral report or as part of a written report.10 The laws in Connecticut, Delaware, and Washington allow child protection workers to request the name of the reporter. In Wyoming, the reporter does not have to provide his or her identity as part of the written report, but if the person takes and submits photographs or x rays of the child, his or her name must be provided.

Disclosure of the Reporter's Identity

All jurisdictions have provisions in statute to maintain the confidentiality of abuse and neglect records. The identity of the reporter is specifically protected from disclosure to the alleged perpetrator in 39 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Northern Mariana Islands.11 This protection is maintained even when other information from the report may be disclosed.

Release of the reporter's identity is allowed in some jurisdictions under specific circumstances or to specific departments or officials. For example, disclosure of the reporter's identity can be ordered by the court when there is a compelling reason to disclose (in California, Mississippi, Tennessee, Texas, and Guam) or upon a finding that the reporter knowingly made a false report (in Alabama, Arkansas, Connecticut, Kentucky, Louisiana, Minnesota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Virginia). In some jurisdictions (California, Florida, Minnesota, Tennessee, Texas, Vermont, the District of Columbia, and Guam), the reporter can waive confidentiality and give consent to the release of his or her name.

Let's put it this way....If I were to suspect child abuse of any kind was happening I HAVE TO REPORT IT, LEGALLY. I don't have to have 100% proof of it, but I need to report it, at that point the state/department of human services looks into it.


Hell, let's look at the Pennslyvania's laws as it pertains to being a mandatory reporter:

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/ ... cessSearch

Professionals Required to Report
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6311

Persons required to report include, but are not limited to:
Licensed physicians, osteopaths, medical examiners, coroners, funeral directors, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, interns, nurses, or hospital personnel
Christian Science practitioners or members of the clergy
School administrators, teachers, school nurses, social services workers, daycare center workers, or any other child care or foster care workers
Mental health professionals
Peace officers or law enforcement officials


Reporting by Other Persons
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6312

Any person who has reason to suspect that a child is abused or neglected may report.

Standards for Making a Report
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6311

A report is required when a person, who in the course of employment, occupation, or practice of a profession, comes into contact with children, has reasonable cause to suspect, on the basis of medical, professional, or other training and experience, that a child is a victim of child abuse.

Privileged Communications
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6311

Except with respect to confidential communications made to a member of the clergy that are protected under 42 Pa.C.S. § 5943 (relating to confidential communications to clergymen), and except with respect to confidential communications made to an attorney that are protected by 42 Pa.C.S. §§ 5916 or 5928 (relating to confidential communications to an attorney), the privileged communication between any professional person required to report and the patient or client of that person shall not apply to situations involving child abuse and shall not constitute grounds for failure to report as required by this chapter.

Inclusion of Reporter's Name in Report
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6313

Mandated reporters must make a written report that includes their name and contact information.

Disclosure of Reporter Identity
Citation: Cons. Stat. Tit. 23, § 6340

The release of the identity of the mandated reporter is prohibited unless the secretary finds that the release will not be detrimental to the safety of the reporter.

Tell me after reading that, how you feel like anyone involved in this case shouldn't have reported anything. It isn't a yearly training....hell, to be a state employee you have to have it I believe. Penn State is a state university...thus it would be required.

[Willie]

[SuperHornet]

Just one problem with that, clenz. If one was hired BEFORE the mandatory reporter law went into effect, it's entirely possible that they were grandfathered on the requirement and therefore didn't know what the law said.

That said, I've never heard of paying for a class outside. Everywhere I've been, the organization either provides it in-house or outsources it. To hold the individual mandatory reporter responsible for arranging (and paying for) their own training is nothing short of STUPID.

[clenz]

Just one problem with that, clenz. If one was hired BEFORE the mandatory reporter law went into effect, it's entirely possible that they were grandfathered on the requirement and therefore didn't know what the law said.

That said, I've never heard of paying for a class outside. Everywhere I've been, the organization either provides it in-house or outsources it. To hold the individual mandatory reporter responsible for arranging (and paying for) their own training is nothing short of STUPID.

Are you really that dense when it comes to this?

1. You can't be grandfathered into mandatory reporter. Reporter laws/CPS/etc... have been around in one way or another since 1692 in England, those laws carried over to a great extent to the colonies, by 1825 states had the right to take children out of homes, and in 1835, the Humane Society founded the National Federation of Child Rescue agencies to investigate child maltreatment. In the late-19th century, private child protection agencies – modeled after existing animal protection organizations – developed to investigate reports of child maltreatment, present cases in court and advocate for child welfare legislation. Let's put it this way, while the laws have been modified over time, even JoPa isn't old enough to be "grandfathered in" if such a thing existed.

2. You've clearly never heard of a lot of things about mandatory reporter...and it's funny you are arguing with someone who has been through mandatory report, has been a mandatory reporter for 4 years (just re-uped before I expired on it), someone who majored in college in Family and Youth Services and had a good portion of my major deal with policies around DHS/CPS/public policies/etc... An organization that requires employees to be mandatory reporters must offer training on site for free, or pay for their employees to take it elsewhere....exactly what I said before. Again, no "Grandfathering"...this isn't a fucking high school/NCAA baseball bat that met B.E.S.R. certification, but was grandfathered to meet the new B.B.C.O.R. certification. Trainings are available all the freaking time, and you don't have to have a job that requires you to be a mandatory reporter to get the certification. I could google right now, and be in an online Mandatory Reporter class in less than 5 minutes for $20.

3. Even if you aren't a "mandatory reporter" you should still fucking turn the sick fuck in. If you saw someone beating the shit out of someone on the street and robbing them would you just pull a Sienfeld and let it happen, not turn it in, then if you were questioned on it cover up that you knew anything? What if someone was being raped in a back alley? Would you call the cops? Hell, what if someone was raping another person in YOUR BATHROOM in your house...would you turn it in? Because that is EXACTLY what happened at PSU....Beaver Stadium was JoPa's house....that locker room was HIS bathroom.


There is zero evidence to prove that JoPa didn't know (fuck he admits he wish he'd have done more), the administration didn't know (fuck, they've admitted to it and it was in the grand jury), and on down the fucking line. By not taking action, they not only allowed that kid to be fucked by someone that deserves to have a 29 in dildo shoved completely up the ass and have his nuts cut off and fed to him, they allowed it to happen to others.


There is zero way to justify that fucked up situation....NONE.

[CitadelGrad]

The PA AG said that Paterno did everything required by the law. I think PA AG understands the statute a little better than you do.

[rkwittem]

The PA AG said that Paterno did everything required by the law. I think PA AG understands the statute a little better than you do.

It is not a question of law, dunce. It is a question of right and wrong. The university felt he did not do due diligence and thus relieved him of his duties.

To quote Colin Cowherd, "TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF IT."

Every one of your points is motivated by emotion. You hate Ohio State because they are the kings of the conference. You are bitter about the Penn State situation (I would be too) because the program has imploded to SMU-esque levels of irrelevance, competitively speaking (NOT corruption-wise). This is all well-and-good, but not when it interferes with one's ability to speak rationally or fairly.

The fact that you are hiding JoePa behind a measly technicality and that the mighty PSU Board of Trustees thought it wasn't enough to save JoePa shows just how blind you are. Whether this is innate or because your head is in the sand remains to be seen.

Now.....back to subject. This bill is merely a proposal. A suggestion. Not an "attempt to legalize cheating" like you melodramatically phrased it. The lawmaker in question doesn't think $2,000 is enough. I frankly think $2K is too little, but it's not for me to decide.

[grizzaholic]

The PA AG said that Paterno did everything required by the law. I think PA AG understands the statute a little better than you do.

So these fuckers have ZERO morals. Got it.

[CitadelGrad]

The PA AG said that Paterno did everything required by the law. I think PA AG understands the statute a little better than you do.

It is not a question of law, dunce. It is a question of right and wrong. The university felt he did not do due diligence and thus relieved him of his duties.

To quote Colin Cowherd, "TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF IT."

Every one of your points is motivated by emotion. You hate Ohio State because they are the kings of the conference. You are bitter about the Penn State situation (I would be too) because the program has imploded to SMU-esque levels of irrelevance, competitively speaking (NOT corruption-wise). This is all well-and-good, but not when it interferes with one's ability to speak rationally or fairly.

The fact that you are hiding JoePa behind a measly technicality and that the mighty PSU Board of Trustees thought it wasn't enough to save JoePa shows just how blind you are. Whether this is innate or because your head is in the sand remains to be seen.

Now.....back to subject. This bill is merely a proposal. A suggestion. Not an "attempt to legalize cheating" like you melodramatically phrased it. The lawmaker in question doesn't think $2,000 is enough. I frankly think $2K is too little, but it's not for me to decide.

Christ, you are incredibly stupid and uninformed and an Ohio State fan. I apologize for the redundancy.

[rkwittem]

It is not a question of law, dunce. It is a question of right and wrong. The university felt he did not do due diligence and thus relieved him of his duties.

To quote Colin Cowherd, "TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF IT."

Every one of your points is motivated by emotion. You hate Ohio State because they are the kings of the conference. You are bitter about the Penn State situation (I would be too) because the program has imploded to SMU-esque levels of irrelevance, competitively speaking (NOT corruption-wise). This is all well-and-good, but not when it interferes with one's ability to speak rationally or fairly.

The fact that you are hiding JoePa behind a measly technicality and that the mighty PSU Board of Trustees thought it wasn't enough to save JoePa shows just how blind you are. Whether this is innate or because your head is in the sand remains to be seen.

Now.....back to subject. This bill is merely a proposal. A suggestion. Not an "attempt to legalize cheating" like you melodramatically phrased it. The lawmaker in question doesn't think $2,000 is enough. I frankly think $2K is too little, but it's not for me to decide.

Christ, you are incredibly stupid and uninformed and an Ohio State fan. I apologize for the redundancy.

That's a bit rich coming from a Penn State fan.

[Willie]

[dal4018]

Why do you call this cheating all the money these athletes make for these schools and they don't get a dime!!!!!!!!!!Its about time!!!!!!!! Thanks Ohio St.

So....how are any of the schools not in a BCS conference going to afford to give each student $8,000.....


I can promise you there isn't a single FCS school that has 1-2 million dollars laying around to give out as stipends.....

Then why is everyone else making money hand over fist!!!!!!!!!

[dal4018]

This could only happen with Ohio State. No SEC athletic department can sink as low as tO$U.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories ... letes.html

Everybody knows this is nothing new this subject goes back to the 80's and maybe even further than that.As stated before everyone is making money but the student-athletes.Where is the money going????????????

[clenz]

So....how are any of the schools not in a BCS conference going to afford to give each student $8,000.....


I can promise you there isn't a single FCS school that has 1-2 million dollars laying around to give out as stipends.....

Then why is everyone else making money hand over fist!!!!!!!!!

Who is making money...outside of the BCS schools?

Name me one, non-BCS, athletic department that can afford 1-2 million dollars more spending every year.....


Hell, not even all the BCS schools make money


Of the 120 athletic departments in FBS just 22 were self-sufficient in 2010. That's actually actually an improvement from 2009, when only 14 schools turned a "profit."

That figure comes from the NCAA's annual report of revenues and expense for Division I sports. The average "surplus" between sports revenue and operating expenses for those 22 schools is about $7.4 million a year.

Meanwhile, the median loss for the remaining 98 program is $11.3 million. That difference must be made up by the institution they belong to.



Naturally, football is by far the biggest factor, generating 45 percent of all revenue, which then must pay for the rest of the athletic teams. However, nearly 51 football programs in the FBS (43%) fail to turn a profit.

Other quick facts:

58% of football programs and 56% of men's basketball programs are self-sufficient. Only 1 women's basketball program is.
The two biggest drivers of athletic revenue are ticket sales and alumni donations.
The two biggest expenses are scholarships and employee salaries. Those two items alone make up more than 50% of all expenses.
The median athletic expense per student athlete is $90,000. At a school in the FCS (the old I-AA), it's $33,000


Read more: http://articles.businessinsider.com/201 ... z1jw97Xvtw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;