Idaho to the Big Sky?

[JALMOND]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Do you honestly think they could survive financially as an Independent without half their games being bodybag paydays?

[EWURanger]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Ehh, agree to disagree on this one. I don't think indie is really that much of an option for them for more than a couple of years. I think other than coming back to the Big Sky (which makes the most sense), their best bet would be to try to land their olympic sports in a regional conference and then try to get an associate membership in the MAC or Sun Belt.

I also think many underestimate the number of Vandal fans that would welcome a return to the Big Sky.


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[SloStang]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Ehh, agree to disagree on this one. I don't think indie is really that much of an option for them for more than a couple of years. I think other than coming back to the Big Sky (which makes the most sense), their best bet would be to try to land their olympic sports in a regional conference and then try to get an associate membership in the MAC or Sun Belt.

I also think many underestimate the number of Vandal fans that would welcome a return to the Big Sky.


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+1.

[JALMOND]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Do you honestly think they could survive financially as an Independent without half their games being bodybag paydays?

Do I think so, no. But I am not on UI's board. As I started with, the move that makes the most sense for Idaho is to accept that the I-A experiment did not work and return back to the Big Sky. But there are still people there who welcomed the move and endorsed the move, and they are the ones who will approve the indy route before admitting to the Big Sky that they made a mistake.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Do you honestly think they could survive financially as an Independent without half their games being bodybag paydays?

Do I think so, no. But I am not on UI's board. As I started with, the move that makes the most sense for Idaho is to accept that the I-A experiment did not work and return back to the Big Sky. But there are still people there who welcomed the move and endorsed the move, and they are the ones who will approve the indy route before admitting to the Big Sky that they made a mistake.

I don't disagree that they're going to try anything and everything first, but if they go Indy, they will flounder and will have absolutely no choice but to drop football or drop down. I see them back in the Sky sooner or later, probably sooner.

[JALMOND]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Ehh, agree to disagree on this one. I don't think indie is really that much of an option for them for more than a couple of years. I think other than coming back to the Big Sky (which makes the most sense), their best bet would be to try to land their olympic sports in a regional conference and then try to get an associate membership in the MAC or Sun Belt.

I also think many underestimate the number of Vandal fans that would welcome a return to the Big Sky.


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Look at it this way...you have an opportunity at what you think is a better job, but your friends can't see it that way. You leave them and take the job anyway. Then the job turns out to be not as great as you thought. Do you leave the job and head home, knowing you will hear the "I told you so"'s when you get back? That makes the most sense, but it is difficult to do. That is the position Idaho is in.

The best option for Idaho is to swallow their pride and return to the Big Sky. It makes sense for them and for the conference. That should happen. Will it, though? I don't think so, not right away.

[SloStang]

Idaho would have some of the better football facililities in the Big Sky and could compete for championships. They would be near the bottom of the Mountain West in both facilities and wins. Better to be a big fish in a small pond than a guppy in the ocean. Just saying....

[BDKJMU]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/t...y_5_1_2012.htm

The list of FCS programs that are moving up to the FBS, or studying the idea, has become unwieldy considering some schools aren't cut out for it even as they stick their chest out and thump it.

There's never been an FBS program that changed course and reclassified down to the FCS, but the University of Idaho might find the idea too enticing in the next year.

The addition of Cal Poly, UC Davis, North Dakota and Southern Utah this year is bringing the Big Sky's football membership to 13. An even 14 is coveted, but there's no other logical prospect for the FCS' biggest conference to get to that number.

Baloney. Got this from a JMU poster over on the JMU board:

"A bunch of schools dropped to I-AA in 1982. Some of those schools stayed in I-AA, while others eventually returned to I-A. It's almost as if it took several years after the I-A/I-AA split in 1978 for the schools to figure out where they fit in.

The following schools dropped to I-AA in 1982 and never came back:
* W&M
* Richmond
* VMI
* App State
* Western Carolina
* Holy Cross
* Colgate
* Southern Illinois
* McNeese State
* Ivy Leauge

Most of the MAC dropped to I-AA in 1982, but moved back to I-A in 1983. North Texas dropped to I-AA in 1982, but moved back to I-A in 1994."

[SUUTbird]

The thing is alot of us are really looking @ this from a football only standpoint, besides football the WAC will still be a decent conference in regards to other sports. Maybe Idaho should consider being in the Big Sky for football only? Probably not very feasible, and to be honest I would be all for Idaho moving down to the Big Sky and giving us a two 7 division team conference such as:

North:
-Montana
-Montana State
-North Dakota
-Idaho
-Idaho State
-Portland State
-Eastern Washington

South:
-Weber State
-Cal Poly
-UC-Davis
-SUU
-NAU
-Sac State
-Northern Colorado

Not to shabby conference alignment if you ask me

[SuperHornet]

I just can't see that working, Tbird. While I love the idea of having Weber in the same division with Sac, a N-S division structure makes no sense to me. Everything is too spread out. I'd much rather see a E-W structure.

West

Cow Poly
Sac
Farm Extension
PSU
EWU
Idaho

East

UND
UNC
SUU
Weber
UM
MSU
ISU

I know that splits the Idaho schools, but Moscow is relatively close to Cheney and Pocatello is pretty close to Ogden, making the split work.

[EWURanger]

Ehh, agree to disagree on this one. I don't think indie is really that much of an option for them for more than a couple of years. I think other than coming back to the Big Sky (which makes the most sense), their best bet would be to try to land their olympic sports in a regional conference and then try to get an associate membership in the MAC or Sun Belt.

I also think many underestimate the number of Vandal fans that would welcome a return to the Big Sky.


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Look at it this way...you have an opportunity at what you think is a better job, but your friends can't see it that way. You leave them and take the job anyway. Then the job turns out to be not as great as you thought. Do you leave the job and head home, knowing you will hear the "I told you so"'s when you get back? That makes the most sense, but it is difficult to do. That is the position Idaho is in.

The best option for Idaho is to swallow their pride and return to the Big Sky. It makes sense for them and for the conference. That should happen. Will it, though? I don't think so, not right away.

Yeah, I get the pride thing, but at the end of the day it will come down to $$. Other than the ones I listed above, what are their options? With their facilities and small tv market, I don't expect them to get a MWC invite, and as I said before they won't last long trying to maintain FBS status as an indie. Who will they bring in? Maybe they could schedule New Mexico State 6 times in the same season.


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[Screamin_Eagle174]

Look at it this way...you have an opportunity at what you think is a better job, but your friends can't see it that way. You leave them and take the job anyway. Then the job turns out to be not as great as you thought. Do you leave the job and head home, knowing you will hear the "I told you so"'s when you get back? That makes the most sense, but it is difficult to do. That is the position Idaho is in.

The best option for Idaho is to swallow their pride and return to the Big Sky. It makes sense for them and for the conference. That should happen. Will it, though? I don't think so, not right away.

Yeah, I get the pride thing, but at the end of the day it will come down to $$. Other than the ones I listed above, what are their options? With their facilities and small tv market, I don't expect them to get a MWC invite, and as I said before they won't last long trying to maintain FBS status as an indie. Who will they bring in? Maybe they could schedule New Mexico State 6 times in the same season.


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You read that thread too?

I think I have solved UI and NMSU scheduling woes..

@LSU
@WSU
Eastern Washington
North Dakota
NMSU
@ NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=205&f=2664&t=8967419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[EWURanger]

Yeah, I get the pride thing, but at the end of the day it will come down to $$. Other than the ones I listed above, what are their options? With their facilities and small tv market, I don't expect them to get a MWC invite, and as I said before they won't last long trying to maintain FBS status as an indie. Who will they bring in? Maybe they could schedule New Mexico State 6 times in the same season.


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You read that thread too?

I think I have solved UI and NMSU scheduling woes..

@LSU
@WSU
Eastern Washington
North Dakota
NMSU
@ NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU
NMSU
@NMSU

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=205&f=2664&t=8967419" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hadn't, but that is some funny shit.

[kalm]

As much as it make sense, I don't see Idaho moving back to the Big Sky. Too many higher-ups there who want to keep the Vandals in I-A, and the fact that scholarships would have to be reduced could be seen as "depriving" a student athlete the right to a college education. Also, the idea that they would have to come back with egg on their face (don't think for a moment that the other four core Big Sky schools-Montana, Montana State, Idaho State and Weber State-would not relish the opportunity to rub it in their noses for coming back). If they don't have a conference, the Vandals would definitely go independent, probably starting a UI-BYU rivalry.

Unless by higher ups you mean big time boosters who supported the move up I don't thing there's much egg on the face by moving down. From an administration stand point, the chances are the very few people who were a part of the initially push are even around any more. And how exactly would the other BSC charter members rub it in their face aside from smack on message boards?

[EWURanger]

Most of the arguments from pro-FBS Vandal fans that I have read seem to revolve around the premise that Idaho will lose a hefty amount of money from guarantees for playing BCS schools. While they may be making 2 or 3 hundred k more for playing say a Nebraska than Idaho State might, I am wondering if this additional revenue is actually enough to offset the 23 additional football scholarships and however many women's scholarships needed to remain Title IX compliant. Plus if they go Sun Belt or MAC you have to factor in all the hefty travel expenses they will incur. The farthest Big Sky opponent they would be travelling to would still be closer than the nearest Sun Belt or MAC opponent. A return to the Big Sky makes sense on basically every level. Athletically, they are much more on par with ISU than Boise State. Unfortunately, how they perceive themselves in the food chain within the state of Idaho has the potential to do serious damage to their athletics programs.

They just need to do the right thing - return to the Big Sky, regroup, start winning again, and then invest in facilities and see what opportunities present themselves in the future. Trying to tread water as an indie or joining a football conference whose corp members are in Florida or the Midwest while basically having to beg the Big West or Big Sky to give them a home for their olympic sports is a ridiculous notion. Plus, I am fairly certain the Big Sky's position will be "all or nothing".



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[Screamin_Eagle174]

Most of the arguments from pro-FBS Vandal fans that I have read seem to revolve around the premise that Idaho will lose a hefty amount of money from guarantees for playing BCS schools. While they may be making 2 or 3 hundred k more for playing say a Nebraska than Idaho State might, I am wondering if this additional revenue is actually enough to offset the 23 additional football scholarships and however many women's scholarships needed to remain Title IX compliant. Plus if they go Sun Belt or MAC you have to factor in all the hefty travel expenses they will incur. The farthest Big Sky opponent they would be travelling to would still be closer than the nearest Sun Belt or MAC opponent. A return to the Big Sky makes sense on basically every level. Athletically, they are much more on par with ISU than Boise State. Unfortunately, how they perceive themselves in the food chain within the state of Idaho has the potential to do serious damage to their athletics programs.

They just need to do the right thing - return to the Big Sky, regroup, start winning again, and then invest in facilities and see what opportunities present themselves in the future. Trying to tread water as an indie or joining a football conference whose corp members are in Florida or the Midwest while basically having to beg the Big West or Big Sky to give them a home for their olympic sports is a ridiculous notion. Plus, I am fairly certain the Big Sky's position will be "all or nothing".



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Great post Ranger.

[AZGrizFan]

Most of the arguments from pro-FBS Vandal fans that I have read seem to revolve around the premise that Idaho will lose a hefty amount of money from guarantees for playing BCS schools. While they may be making 2 or 3 hundred k more for playing say a Nebraska than Idaho State might, I am wondering if this additional revenue is actually enough to offset the 23 additional football scholarships and however many women's scholarships needed to remain Title IX compliant. Plus if they go Sun Belt or MAC you have to factor in all the hefty travel expenses they will incur. The farthest Big Sky opponent they would be travelling to would still be closer than the nearest Sun Belt or MAC opponent. A return to the Big Sky makes sense on basically every level. Athletically, they are much more on par with ISU than Boise State. Unfortunately, how they perceive themselves in the food chain within the state of Idaho has the potential to do serious damage to their athletics programs.

They just need to do the right thing - return to the Big Sky, regroup, start winning again, and then invest in facilities and see what opportunities present themselves in the future. Trying to tread water as an indie or joining a football conference whose corp members are in Florida or the Midwest while basically having to beg the Big West or Big Sky to give them a home for their olympic sports is a ridiculous notion. Plus, I am fairly certain the Big Sky's position will be "all or nothing".

Pride goeth before the fall.

[SuperHornet]

Most of the arguments from pro-FBS Vandal fans that I have read seem to revolve around the premise that Idaho will lose a hefty amount of money from guarantees for playing BCS schools. While they may be making 2 or 3 hundred k more for playing say a Nebraska than Idaho State might, I am wondering if this additional revenue is actually enough to offset the 23 additional football scholarships and however many women's scholarships needed to remain Title IX compliant. Plus if they go Sun Belt or MAC you have to factor in all the hefty travel expenses they will incur. The farthest Big Sky opponent they would be travelling to would still be closer than the nearest Sun Belt or MAC opponent. A return to the Big Sky makes sense on basically every level. Athletically, they are much more on par with ISU than Boise State. Unfortunately, how they perceive themselves in the food chain within the state of Idaho has the potential to do serious damage to their athletics programs.

They just need to do the right thing - return to the Big Sky, regroup, start winning again, and then invest in facilities and see what opportunities present themselves in the future. Trying to tread water as an indie or joining a football conference whose corp members are in Florida or the Midwest while basically having to beg the Big West or Big Sky to give them a home for their olympic sports is a ridiculous notion. Plus, I am fairly certain the Big Sky's position will be "all or nothing".



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Good post. The only caveat I would have is that one's opinion about what another OUGHT to do does not qualify as something that the other NEEDS to do. Yes, I'm dipping into Maslow here.

That said, if one changes your sentence to read that Idaho OUGHT to revert to the Sky, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

[SJHornet]

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/0 ... r_bottom_f

Looks like the wheels might be turnIng

[Fresno St. Alum]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/t...y_5_1_2012.htm

Baloney. Got this from a JMU poster over on the JMU board:

"A bunch of schools dropped to I-AA in 1982. Some of those schools stayed in I-AA, while others eventually returned to I-A. It's almost as if it took several years after the I-A/I-AA split in 1978 for the schools to figure out where they fit in.

The following schools dropped to I-AA in 1982 and never came back:
* W&M
* Richmond
* VMI
* App State
* Western Carolina
* Holy Cross
* Colgate
* Southern Illinois
* McNeese State
* Ivy Leauge

Most of the MAC dropped to I-AA in 1982, but moved back to I-A in 1983. North Texas dropped to I-AA in 1982, but moved back to I-A in 1994."

30 years is still a long time since the last FBS to FCS move. Since then all have dropped fb all together. Wichita St., Long Beach St., CS Fullerton, UOP am I missing any?

as long as WAC lives as an oly sports option for Idaho I think their pride will keep them as FBS Indy. If the WAC dies, they have nowhere else to go other that all sports Indy. I think they'd cave and join the Sky then.

[Wildcat Ryan]

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/0 ... r_bottom_f

Looks like the wheels might be turnIng

Things are getting interesting now, it's looking like a return to the Sky for Idaho is getting more and more possible.

[SDHornet]

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2012/0 ... r_bottom_f

Looks like the wheels might be turnIng

Things are getting interesting now, it's looking like a return to the Sky for Idaho is getting more and more possible.

Things are getting desperate for them. I think they hold out and try to go Indy for a year or two. Then when they finally realize that nobody will want them, they either cut their football program or maybe join the BSC. Odds of the latter are probably lower than the former.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Things are getting interesting now, it's looking like a return to the Sky for Idaho is getting more and more possible.

Things are getting desperate for them. I think they hold out and try to go Indy for a year or two. Then when they finally realize that nobody will want them, they either cut their football program or maybe join the BSC. Odds of the latter are probably lower than the former.

Disagree with that. I'd almost guarantee that all real Vandal fans and administrators would rather drop down to the BSC than drop football.

[Wildcat Ryan]

Things are getting desperate for them. I think they hold out and try to go Indy for a year or two. Then when they finally realize that nobody will want them, they either cut their football program or maybe join the BSC. Odds of the latter are probably lower than the former.

Disagree with that. I'd almost guarantee that all real Vandal fans and administrators would rather drop down to the BSC than drop football.

Agree, its the younger generation Vandal fans (who have no idea of Idaho's past FCS success) who dont want to drop down.