First Division I "death penalty" in 25 years?

[bonarae]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... penn-state

New information and evidence revealed in the Freeh Report show that Penn State administrators had multiple opportunities to put a stop to Jerry Sandusky's sexual abuse on and around campus.

Their inaction for more than a decade could result in NCAA action against the school, and President Mark Emmert is not willing to take any possible punishments off the table at this point.

In a recent PBS interview with Tavis Smiley, Emmert addressed the Penn State saying that he has "never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope to never see it again."

Often, past precedent will be a factor taken into consideration when it comes to NCAA enforcement. Even in the early stages of determining if penalties will be enforced, Emmert says this may be a case where past precedent makes sense because the issue at Penn State is an "unprecedented problem."

I think Penn State will be forced to drop football after the "death penalty" ends, and let Beaver Stadium forced to host HS championship games in their place.

[Ibanez]

The NCAA has only done this 5 times, the last time was in 2007, wasn't it? I think Morehouse College.

[bonarae]

The NCAA has only done this 5 times, the last time was in 2007, wasn't it? I think Morehouse College.

No. A Division III school was the last victim of the "death penalty".

[Ibanez]

The NCAA has only done this 5 times, the last time was in 2007, wasn't it? I think Morehouse College.

No. A Division III school was the last victim of the "death penalty".

I didn't say D1, 2 or 3. I said the NCAA has only executed the death penalty 5 times.

[Franks Tanks]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... penn-state

New information and evidence revealed in the Freeh Report show that Penn State administrators had multiple opportunities to put a stop to Jerry Sandusky's sexual abuse on and around campus.

Their inaction for more than a decade could result in NCAA action against the school, and President Mark Emmert is not willing to take any possible punishments off the table at this point.

In a recent PBS interview with Tavis Smiley, Emmert addressed the Penn State saying that he has "never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope to never see it again."

Often, past precedent will be a factor taken into consideration when it comes to NCAA enforcement. Even in the early stages of determining if penalties will be enforced, Emmert says this may be a case where past precedent makes sense because the issue at Penn State is an "unprecedented problem."

I think Penn State will be forced to drop football after the "death penalty" ends, and let Beaver Stadium forced to host HS championship games in their place.

Unlikley since this is outside of the NCAA jurisdiction. If the NCAA begins putting programs on probation due to criminal offenses by coaches or players many programs will be shut down.

[andy7171]

I don't think it's going to happen. The major offenders are either dead, in jail or soon to be in jail. A death penalty would only punish a new administration, coaching staff and players who had nothing to do with it at all.
Paterno's reputation is flushed away. What else could you possibily do to tear down Penn State football that hasn't already happened.

[CAA Flagship]

I don't think it's going to happen. The major offenders are either dead, in jail or soon to be in jail. A death penalty would only punish a new administration, coaching staff and players who had nothing to do with it at all.
Paterno's reputation is flushed away. What else could you possibily do to tear down Penn State football that hasn't already happened.

Agree. What competitive, on-field, advantage did PSU gain during that time other than avoiding bad press?

[∞∞∞]

I'm against the death penalty for reasons Andy cites, but I think PSU should receive severe sanctions. Honor any existing scholarships, but don't allow them to give any more for 5 years. Let them play in bowls as well just 'cause it'd be tough to do without scholarships anyways.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm against the death penalty for reasons Andy cites, but I think PSU should receive severe sanctions. Honor any existing scholarships, but don't allow them to give any more for 5 years. Let them play in bowls as well just 'cause it'd be tough to do without scholarships anyways.

No scholarships for 5 years is a death penalty dumbass. Letting a team full of walk-ons play Ohio State and Nebraska is a great idea.

[bluehenbillk]

PSU should no doubt get the most devestating NCAA punishment in modern times. If you want to give them the death penalty I'm OK with that. If you want to give them a postseason ban, national TV appearance ban, significant scholarship reductions over 3-4+ years I'm Ok with that too. I'm curious as to what/if anything the Big Ten could impose as well...

Saw this on another board, but if this was Penn State's golf team versus the football team, would you feel differently about giving them the death penalty? Why should it matter?

[∞∞∞]

I'm against the death penalty for reasons Andy cites, but I think PSU should receive severe sanctions. Honor any existing scholarships, but don't allow them to give any more for 5 years. Let them play in bowls as well just 'cause it'd be tough to do without scholarships anyways.

No scholarships for 5 years is a death penalty dumbass. Letting a team full of walk-ons play Ohio State and Nebraska is a great idea.

Well, the death penalty would be a complete ban of at least one season, a loss of most scholarships, a ban of home games and bowls, a reduced number of coaches, reduced recruiting time, and probation.

I think they should lose the ability to give scholarships for 5 years, but not everything else. They'd still have the scholarship players from before the sanctions, so any freshman this year would still have it in four years (or five if they red-shirt) if they're still on the team. Also, this is football. Non-scholly teams play full scholly FCS teams all the time. It'd be no different in the FBS...get beaten down severely in the 1st quarter and then the other teams cruises with their 3rd stringers the rest of the time.

[Skjellyfetti]

NCAA president Mark Emmert has not ruled out drastically punishing Penn State football in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky scandal.

Emmert gave a candid interview Monday on PBS' "Tavis Smiley," claiming that he still is waiting for Penn State's official response to the Freeh report and acknowledging that the NCAA has not eliminated the possibility of imposing severe sanctions against the school's storied football program.

"I've never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university and hope never to see it again," Emmert said during the interview. "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide.

"We'll hold in abeyance all of those decisions until we've actually decided what we want to do with the actual charges should there be any. And I don't want to take anything off the table."

Emmert gave the interview four days after Penn State released the scathing internal report by former FBI director Louis Freeh. The report concluded that late football coach Joe Paterno and other top Penn State officials concealed Sandusky's abuse of children to shield the university from bad publicity, exhibiting "callous and shocking" disregard for child victims.

The decision to create their own investigation is an act of stubbornness and defiance by the Paterno family, not just desperation or spasm of understandable grief, writes Johnette Howard.

Still reeling from the content of the Freeh report, Emmert did not dismiss the notion of issuing the so-called "death penalty" against Penn State, asserting that the unprecedented nature of the Sandusky scandal could warrant extreme punishment.

"This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with," Emmert said. "This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal.

"Well it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

Emmert also said that he expects to hear back from Penn State "within weeks" regarding questions the NCAA has issued about the case, including the issue of institutional control. He consistently has maintained that the NCAA will not determine whether violations occurred until receiving the school's response.

"We're in active discussions with Penn State right now, and I need to get a response back from them soon, right away," Emmert said. "And then we're going to make that determination, and then we'll see where we go here."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... penn-state" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Franks Tanks]

PSU should no doubt get the most devestating NCAA punishment in modern times. If you want to give them the death penalty I'm OK with that. If you want to give them a postseason ban, national TV appearance ban, significant scholarship reductions over 3-4+ years I'm Ok with that too. I'm curious as to what/if anything the Big Ten could impose as well...

Saw this on another board, but if this was Penn State's golf team versus the football team, would you feel differently about giving them the death penalty? Why should it matter?

You must also then be ready to accept an NCAA that has powers that far extend beyond their current reach. You said it shouldn’t matter if it is PSU golf or PSU football. Using that logic it shouldn’t matter if the crime is a failure to report child abuse by university officials or another crime of a similar degree. Baylor did not receive sanctions when their coach tried to cover-up the murder of a players (or at least change the narrative), he got busted for paying players. If you feel the NCAA should get involved in criminal matters that is fine, but you must be consistent when things come up in the future.

[Franks Tanks]

No scholarships for 5 years is a death penalty dumbass. Letting a team full of walk-ons play Ohio State and Nebraska is a great idea.

Well, the death penalty would be a complete ban of at least one season, a loss of most scholarships, a ban of home games and bowls, a reduced number of coaches, reduced recruiting time, and probation.

I think they should lose the ability to give scholarships for 5 years, but not everything else. They'd still have the scholarship players from before the sanctions, so any freshman this year would still have it in four years (or five if they red-shirt) if they're still on the team. Also, this is football. Non-scholly teams play full scholly FCS teams all the time. It'd be no different in the FBS...get beaten down severely in the 1st quarter and then the other teams cruises with their 3rd stringers the rest of the time.

No scholarships is a death penalty and nothing else will matter. Every schoalrship player would transfer because they have no chance at winning. Kids with any talent whatsoever would not want to go out and get destroyed every week.

BTW SMU football was only disbanded for one season by the NCAA. They deciced to make it 2 because they had so many transfers, and felt they couldn't compete in that first year back from the death penalty.

[grizzaholic]

PSU should no doubt get the most devestating NCAA punishment in modern times. If you want to give them the death penalty I'm OK with that. If you want to give them a postseason ban, national TV appearance ban, significant scholarship reductions over 3-4+ years I'm Ok with that too. I'm curious as to what/if anything the Big Ten could impose as well...

Saw this on another board, but if this was Penn State's golf team versus the football team, would you feel differently about giving them the death penalty? Why should it matter?

You must also then be ready to accept an NCAA that has powers that far extend beyond their current reach. You said it shouldn’t matter if it is PSU golf or PSU football. Using that logic it shouldn’t matter if the crime is a failure to report child abuse by university officials or another crime of a similar degree. Baylor did not receive sanctions when their coach tried to cover-up the murder of a players (or at least change the narrative), he got busted for paying players. If you feel the NCAA should get involved in criminal matters that is fine, but you must be consistent when things come up in the future.

So Ped State should get a pass. Gotcha.

[Franks Tanks]

You must also then be ready to accept an NCAA that has powers that far extend beyond their current reach. You said it shouldn’t matter if it is PSU golf or PSU football. Using that logic it shouldn’t matter if the crime is a failure to report child abuse by university officials or another crime of a similar degree. Baylor did not receive sanctions when their coach tried to cover-up the murder of a players (or at least change the narrative), he got busted for paying players. If you feel the NCAA should get involved in criminal matters that is fine, but you must be consistent when things come up in the future.

So Ped State should get a pass. Gotcha.

If you want to change the NCAA rules to include criminal offenses, then by all means hold Penn State to the new rules. Also a Montana fan should be careful what you wish for in regard to Penn State.



"Because it's an FCS school, the story didn't garner nearly the same attention as Penn State's, but the details are no less disturbing. The Grizzlies' head coach and AD were recently fired, and the Department of Justice has launched an investigation following a series of suspiciously handled sexual assault allegations against football players. E-mails exposed a university vice president, Jim Foley, suggesting retaliation against an alleged victim who went public with her story and criticizing a newspaper's use of the phrase "gang rape" to describe a woman's accusation that she was drugged and sexually assaulted by four players.

There's no Freeh Report yet for Montana, which like Penn State is a traditional power at its level (two national championships, 11 playoff appearances). And like Penn State, it takes its football very seriously -- more seriously, apparently, than the plight of sexual abuse victims."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z20tXBsrxe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skjellyfetti]

Flying over Ped State's campus this morning:

Take down the statue or we will

[ASUMountaineer]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootbal ... penn-state



I think Penn State will be forced to drop football after the "death penalty" ends, and let Beaver Stadium forced to host HS championship games in their place.

Unlikley since this is outside of the NCAA jurisdiction. If the NCAA begins putting programs on probation due to criminal offenses by coaches or players many programs will be shut down.

I think this is different from your everyday player smoking weed or driving intoxicated.

This was a situation where folks in the football program, including the HC, and the university administration intentionally covered up criminal activities happening in football/school facilities. I don't think PSU will get the death penalty, but that seems to smell of "lack of institutional control."

[ASUMountaineer]

I'm against the death penalty for reasons Andy cites, but I think PSU should receive severe sanctions. Honor any existing scholarships, but don't allow them to give any more for 5 years. Let them play in bowls as well just 'cause it'd be tough to do without scholarships anyways.

No scholarships for 5 years is a death penalty dumbass. Letting a team full of walk-ons play Ohio State and Nebraska is a great idea.

Well now, that's a nice retort. I agree that 5 years with zero scholarships is essentially a death penalty. However, I agree with Trip that there should be some sort of NCAA sanctions placed on the program.

[grizzaholic]

So Ped State should get a pass. Gotcha.

If you want to change the NCAA rules to include criminal offenses, then by all means hold Penn State to the new rules. Also a Montana fan should be careful what you wish for in regard to Penn State.



"Because it's an FCS school, the story didn't garner nearly the same attention as Penn State's, but the details are no less disturbing. The Grizzlies' head coach and AD were recently fired, and the Department of Justice has launched an investigation following a series of suspiciously handled sexual assault allegations against football players. E-mails exposed a university vice president, Jim Foley, suggesting retaliation against an alleged victim who went public with her story and criticizing a newspaper's use of the phrase "gang rape" to describe a woman's accusation that she was drugged and sexually assaulted by four players.

There's no Freeh Report yet for Montana, which like Penn State is a traditional power at its level (two national championships, 11 playoff appearances). And like Penn State, it takes its football very seriously -- more seriously, apparently, than the plight of sexual abuse victims."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z20tXBsrxe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why should I be careful? I think it is despicable all around. I couldn't give two shits about any, ANY, university if they are covering up child rape, normal rape, murder, etc... If they are guilty, they deserve to sit out a while and think about what they have done and don't get to play the games. If they lose money, that is THEIR bad. The school is there to educate the future generation FIRST and foremost.

Don't you dare try to make me out to be an apologist. I won't put up with that shit.

[Ibanez]

Well, the death penalty would be a complete ban of at least one season, a loss of most scholarships, a ban of home games and bowls, a reduced number of coaches, reduced recruiting time, and probation.

I think they should lose the ability to give scholarships for 5 years, but not everything else. They'd still have the scholarship players from before the sanctions, so any freshman this year would still have it in four years (or five if they red-shirt) if they're still on the team. Also, this is football. Non-scholly teams play full scholly FCS teams all the time. It'd be no different in the FBS...get beaten down severely in the 1st quarter and then the other teams cruises with their 3rd stringers the rest of the time.

No scholarships is a death penalty and nothing else will matter. Every schoalrship player would transfer because they have no chance at winning. Kids with any talent whatsoever would not want to go out and get destroyed every week.

BTW SMU football was only disbanded for one season by the NCAA. They deciced to make it 2 because they had so many transfers, and felt they couldn't compete in that first year back from the death penalty.

Banishment for a year is the D.P. a loss of scholarships would suck and effectively due that, but you could play football with walk ons.

[ASUMountaineer]

So Ped State should get a pass. Gotcha.

If you want to change the NCAA rules to include criminal offenses, then by all means hold Penn State to the new rules. Also a Montana fan should be careful what you wish for in regard to Penn State.



"Because it's an FCS school, the story didn't garner nearly the same attention as Penn State's, but the details are no less disturbing. The Grizzlies' head coach and AD were recently fired, and the Department of Justice has launched an investigation following a series of suspiciously handled sexual assault allegations against football players. E-mails exposed a university vice president, Jim Foley, suggesting retaliation against an alleged victim who went public with her story and criticizing a newspaper's use of the phrase "gang rape" to describe a woman's accusation that she was drugged and sexually assaulted by four players.

There's no Freeh Report yet for Montana, which like Penn State is a traditional power at its level (two national championships, 11 playoff appearances). And like Penn State, it takes its football very seriously -- more seriously, apparently, than the plight of sexual abuse victims."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z20tXBsrxe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You seem to have a lot invested in Penn State, but I agree. If the university/athletic officials are involved in criminal activity (or attempting to cover up or mislead LE) pertaining to any of the athletic programs, then the NCAA probably should have some jurisdiction.

[Franks Tanks]

No scholarships is a death penalty and nothing else will matter. Every schoalrship player would transfer because they have no chance at winning. Kids with any talent whatsoever would not want to go out and get destroyed every week.

BTW SMU football was only disbanded for one season by the NCAA. They deciced to make it 2 because they had so many transfers, and felt they couldn't compete in that first year back from the death penalty.

A lost of scholarships isn't the death penalty. Banning the school from playing is. There's a huge **** difference.

A school in the Big 10 cannot field a legitimate football team without football scholarships. It is a de facto death penalty. A one year death penalty would be less harmful than 5 years without football scholarships.

[Franks Tanks]

If you want to change the NCAA rules to include criminal offenses, then by all means hold Penn State to the new rules. Also a Montana fan should be careful what you wish for in regard to Penn State.



"Because it's an FCS school, the story didn't garner nearly the same attention as Penn State's, but the details are no less disturbing. The Grizzlies' head coach and AD were recently fired, and the Department of Justice has launched an investigation following a series of suspiciously handled sexual assault allegations against football players. E-mails exposed a university vice president, Jim Foley, suggesting retaliation against an alleged victim who went public with her story and criticizing a newspaper's use of the phrase "gang rape" to describe a woman's accusation that she was drugged and sexually assaulted by four players.

There's no Freeh Report yet for Montana, which like Penn State is a traditional power at its level (two national championships, 11 playoff appearances). And like Penn State, it takes its football very seriously -- more seriously, apparently, than the plight of sexual abuse victims."



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... z20tXBsrxe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You seem to have a lot invested in Penn State, but I agree. If the university/athletic officials are involved in criminal activity (or attempting to cover up or mislead LE) pertaining to any of the athletic programs, then the NCAA probably should have some jurisdiction.

Many of my family members went to Penn State, and I went to many games over the years. I do not feel that Penn State should get off the legal or moral hook, but I think people need to be fair and know all the facts (which are still being uncovered) to make a proper assesment. What is scary is that everyone hears a piece of the story or an opinion in the media and jumps on. Even the Freeh reports makes a lot of conclusion with rather thin evidence.

I feel the same way about the Montana situation. I don't really know what went on and I believe I need to learn the ful story before making a judgement.

[bluehenbillk]

Even the Freeh reports makes a lot of conclusion with rather thin evidence.

Uh, how's that?