First Division I "death penalty" in 25 years?

[bonarae]

From an FBS team's fan blog:

ESPN SportsCenter - NCAA to announce Penn St. sanctions Monday 9 a.m. ET; CBS News reports 'unprecedented' penalties

OK, will the death penalty be used after all?

[bonarae]

Here's the source:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-574 ... penn-state

[DSUrocks07]

The economic ramifications to the entire community of State College, PA is why the "death penalty" won't (or shouldn't at least) be administered. PSU is the only thing they have up there.

[rkwittem]

Here's the source:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-574 ... penn-state

Cue Franks Tanks and CitGrad about to whine their butts off.

[∞∞∞]

I don't think the death penalty is "unprecedented."

[CitadelGrad]

I don't think the death penalty is "unprecedented."

What is unprecedented is the NCAA punishing a school for actions that do not violate NCAA rules. The purpose of the NCAA is to ensure a level playing field for all member institutions. Penn State did not gain a competitive advantage.

The NCAA is assuming powers that it was never intended to have. The NCAA president now apparently does not have to follow NCAA rules, and can apply punishment without following NCAA procedures and bypassing the appropriate NCAA committees. Mark Emmert has assumed the same level of power and individual discretion that the MLB Commissioner has since Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

[∞∞∞]

PSU broke the rules about ethics and institutional control; the NCAA rulebook covers way more than stuff related to a "competitive advantage." I'm not sure how that's not understood at this point.

[grizzaholic]

The economic ramifications to the entire community of State College, PA is why the "death penalty" won't (or shouldn't at least) be administered. PSU is the only thing they have up there.

Then PSU should have been much more careful. That is all on them. They should just take their punishment, don't whine and complain, don't appeal, just take their medicine and move on.

[CitadelGrad]

PSU broke the rules about ethics and institutional control; the NCAA rulebook covers way more than stuff related to a "competitive advantage." I'm not sure how that's not understood at this point.

I don't think you understand what the purpose of the NCAA is. Every rule it has is designed to prevent a competitive advantage through unethical behavior. If you don't believe me, many former NCAA officials, including past NCAA presidents have said precisely that.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/st ... urn false;

NCAA presidents past and present have made a point of saying they are not akin to a commissioner in professional sports and don't have the power to penalize players, coaches or schools independently.

The former chair said the only "rule" that the NCAA could be holding onto here is a lack of institutional control.

"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of institutional control under the rules," said the former chair. "Because then that would technically go through the committee."

The chair said that the NCAA is choosing to deal with a case that is outside the traditional rules or violations. He said this case does not fall within the basic fundamental purpose of NCAA regulations.

[CitadelGrad]

Here are some more quotes from the former chairman of the NCAA Infractions Committee.

"This is unique and this kind of power has never been tested or
tried,'' said the former chair. "It's unprecedented to have this
extensive power. This has nothing to do with the purpose of the
infractions process. Nevertheless, somehow (the NCAA president and
executive board) have taken it on themselves to be a commissioner and to
penalize a school for improper conduct.''

"I would be surprised if they're treating this as simply a lack of
institutional control under the rules,'' said the former chair. "Because
then that would technically go through the committee.''

"The purpose of the NCAA is to keep a level playing field among schools and
to make sure they use proper methods through scholarships and etc,'' the
chair said. "This is not a case that would normally go through the
process. It has nothing to do with a level playing field. It has nothing
to do with whether Penn State gets advantages over other schools in
recruiting or in the number of coaches or things that we normally deal
with.''

"The real question is whether or not under the
overall rules and regulations of the NCAA do those in charge take action
when it doesn't fall within the scope and realm of the normal
infractions process,'' said the former chair. "This has nothing to do
with a level playing field or competition. The NCAA is a voluntary
organization and the schools sign on to be bound by the NCAA rules and
regulations.''

"But this has nothing to do with NCAA business,'' said the former chair.
"This is new. If they're going to deal with situations of this kind
that have nothing to do with the games of who plays and so on and rather
deal with members of the athletic department who act immorally or
criminally then it opens up the door to other cases.''

"The criminal courts are perfectly capable of handling these situations,''
said the former chair. "This is a new phase and a new thing. They are
getting into bad behavior that are somehow connected to those who work
in the athletic department."

[BDKJMU]

I don't think the death penalty is "unprecedented."

What is unprecedented is the NCAA punishing a school for actions that do not violate NCAA rules. The purpose of the NCAA is to ensure a level playing field for all member institutions. Penn State did not gain a competitive advantage.

The NCAA is assuming powers that it was never intended to have. The NCAA president now apparently does not have to follow NCAA rules, and can apply punishment without following NCAA procedures and bypassing the appropriate NCAA committees. Mark Emmert has assumed the same level of power and individual discretion that the MLB Commissioner has since Judge Kennesaw Mountain Landis.

That's along the lines of what this USA Today article stated Wed:

NCAA action against Penn State might be limited

".........But they say one significant challenge looms for the NCAA: finding an NCAA rules violation.
"That's the problem — there isn't one," said David Swank, a former chair of the infractions committee that acts as judge and jury in NCAA investigations.

Because Penn State's transgressions might not involve violating traditional NCAA bylaws, leveling sanctions might require the NCAA enforcement staff to alter how it holds programs accountable and for what behavior. Mike Glazier, an attorney who represents schools during NCAA investigations, said: "If they (the NCAA) decide to get into it and apply their enforcement procedures, it would be unprecedented for them."............

........One possibility is for the NCAA to hit Penn State with lack of institutional control — a charge that historically warrants harsh penalties such as those recently levied against Ohio State and Southern Califiornia — but that dubious distinction has always been tied to other specific rules violations, said Tom Yeager, a former chair of the infractions committee.

Chuck Smrt, who was employed by the NCAA's enforcement staff for more than 17 years, said the NCAA in the past has addressed situations involving school officials concealing information related to potential NCAA violations. But Smrt, who now assists universities with compliance and investigations as president of The Compliance Group, did not recall the NCAA ever addressing situations involving school officials concealing information related to potential criminal activity.

"To have a penalty you have to have a violation. So what is the violation?" said Smrt, who has been present at more than 100 hearings before the infractions committee. "And to go down that path, you have to go down the path of university administrators did not properly review information concerning a potential criminal violation. I am not aware of the NCAA ever making that finding."......................"

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ ... 56285588/1

[BDKJMU]

Here's the source:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-574 ... penn-state

Yep, the NCAA is going to venture where they haven't before:

NCAA source: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State

(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.

NCAA President Mark Emmert will make the announcement Monday morning at 9 a.m. at the organization's headquarters in Indianapolis.

The penalties come in the wake of the independent report by former FBI Director Louis Freeh that chronicled repeated efforts by four top Penn State officials, including former football coach Joe Paterno, to conceal allegations of serial child sex abuse by Jerry Sandusky over a 14-year period.

The NCAA had been awaiting the school's response to four key questions pertaining to the sex abuse scandal, including issues involving institutional control and ethics."

[BDKJMU]

From an FBS team's fan blog:

ESPN SportsCenter - NCAA to announce Penn St. sanctions Monday 9 a.m. ET; CBS News reports 'unprecedented' penalties

OK, will the death penalty be used after all?

No, but it will be almost as bad:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... ource-says

[∞∞∞]

Turning a blind eye to the child rape absolutely helped recruiting by keeping negative press away for years and years. Protecting the PSU brand is the competitive advantage and that's how the NCAA will (and should) tie it in to the "lack of institutional control" and any ethics clause in the rules.

[CitadelGrad]

Turning a blind eye to the child rape absolutely helped recruiting by keeping negative press away for years and years. Protecting the PSU brand is the competitive advantage and that's how the NCAA will (and should) tie it in to the "lack of institutional control" and any ethics clause in the rules.

Fuck, you are clueless. Lack of institutional control relates only to violations and failure to report violations of NCAA rules. I guess you think you know more about it than former NCAA officials.

If they hadn't turned a blind eye and reported Sandusky, they would have been heroes. So tell me how turning a blind eye avoided negative press? It was being caught failing to report that generated the negative (and usually inaccurate) press.

[grizzaholic]

Turning a blind eye to the child rape absolutely helped recruiting by keeping negative press away for years and years. Protecting the PSU brand is the competitive advantage and that's how the NCAA will (and should) tie it in to the "lack of institutional control" and any ethics clause in the rules.

Fuck, you are clueless. Lack of institutional control relates only to violations and failure to report violations of NCAA rules. I guess you think you know more about it than former NCAA officials.

If they hadn't turned a blind eye and reported Sandusky, they would have been heroes. So tell me how turning a blind eye avoided negative press? It was being caught failing to report that generated the negative (and usually inaccurate) press.

Really??? Instead of reporting the stuff in 1998 or whatever, they sat silent until last year. They got 12+ years of no bad press on the issue. FUCK, it isn't that hard to understand.


Yeah, blame the press

[CitadelGrad]

Fuck, you are clueless. Lack of institutional control relates only to violations and failure to report violations of NCAA rules. I guess you think you know more about it than former NCAA officials.

If they hadn't turned a blind eye and reported Sandusky, they would have been heroes. So tell me how turning a blind eye avoided negative press? It was being caught failing to report that generated the negative (and usually inaccurate) press.

Really??? Instead of reporting the stuff in 1998 or whatever, they sat silent until last year. They got 12+ years of no bad press on the issue. FUCK, it isn't that hard to understand.


Yeah, blame the press

Jesus H.T.F. Christ, you are retarded. What the hell was there to report in 1998? The police investigated Sandusky and both the Centre County and PA AG declined to prosecute. You can't even get the basic facts right, but that sure as hell doesn't stop you from moral grandstanding.

[grizzaholic]

Really??? Instead of reporting the stuff in 1998 or whatever, they sat silent until last year. They got 12+ years of no bad press on the issue. FUCK, it isn't that hard to understand.


Yeah, blame the press

Jesus H.T.F. Christ, you are retarded. What the hell was there to report in 1998? The police investigated Sandusky and both the Centre County and PA AG declined to prosecute. You can't even get the basic facts right, but that sure as hell doesn't stop you from moral grandstanding.

You are right and the rest of us are wrong.

Joe Pa was a great man and never did a wrong deed in his life.
Sandusky is just misunderstood.
There was no cover-up.
Penn State didn't do anything wrong.
This is no business of the NCAA.
Their football program had nothing to do with this witch-hunt.
Football isn't the life blood of that place.

[CitadelGrad]

Jesus H.T.F. Christ, you are retarded. What the hell was there to report in 1998? The police investigated Sandusky and both the Centre County and PA AG declined to prosecute. You can't even get the basic facts right, but that sure as hell doesn't stop you from moral grandstanding.

You are right and the rest of us are wrong. That's entirely possible. I'm certainly better informed about this story than anyone else on the board.

Joe Pa was a great man and never did a wrong deed in his life. Yes, he was.There is no conclusive evidence that he did anything wrong.

Sandusky is just misunderstood. He isn't misunderstood at all. A jury of his peers understood him quite well.

There was no cover-up. There was a failure to report, except by McQueary and Paterno. They reported.

Penn State didn't do anything wrong. Penn State did nothing wrong. A few Penn State administrators did.

This is no business of the NCAA. True. The NCAA has no jurisdiction concerning criminal and civil matters.

Their football program had nothing to do with this witch-hunt. Also true.

Football isn't the life blood of that place. Football provides the vast majority of athletic revenues at Penn State, just as it does at every university with a football program. The real lifeblood of the university is research dollars.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I don't think it's going to happen. The major offenders are either dead, in jail or soon to be in jail. A death penalty would only punish a new administration, coaching staff and players who had nothing to do with it at all.
Paterno's reputation is flushed away. What else could you possibily do to tear down Penn State football that hasn't already happened.

Jumping into the fray late, and without reading the thread through first, but it's not about tearing down Penn State football. The punishment that the NCAA will dole out will be designed to prevent something like this from ever happening again, for fear of what will happen. How do you smack an entire university down that hard, without taking away their primary money maker? It's certainly not fair to the current players and students, but taking away their choice to play football at Penn State (instead of anywhere else) pales in comparison to hell the victims and their families/friends went through, and will go through the rest of their lives. All because the PSU administration decided that those kids being raped was preferable to the image of the university being tarnished.

Unfortunately for the players and students, I think the death penalty is warranted.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

You are right and the rest of us are wrong. That's entirely possible. I'm certainly better informed about this story than anyone else on the board.

Joe Pa was a great man and never did a wrong deed in his life. Yes, he was.There is no conclusive evidence that he did anything wrong.

Sandusky is just misunderstood. He isn't misunderstood at all. A jury of his peers understood him quite well.

There was no cover-up. There was a failure to report, except by McQueary and Paterno. They reported.

Penn State didn't do anything wrong. Penn State did nothing wrong. A few Penn State administrators did.

This is no business of the NCAA. True. The NCAA has no jurisdiction concerning criminal and civil matters.

Their football program had nothing to do with this witch-hunt. Also true.

Football isn't the life blood of that place. Football provides the vast majority of athletic revenues at Penn State, just as it does at every university with a football program. The real lifeblood of the university is research dollars.

JFC you're pathetic. If someone in your family was raping small boys, you'd defend them.

[grizzaholic]

You are right and the rest of us are wrong. That's entirely possible. I'm certainly better informed about this story than anyone else on the board.

Joe Pa was a great man and never did a wrong deed in his life. Yes, he was.There is no conclusive evidence that he did anything wrong.

Sandusky is just misunderstood. He isn't misunderstood at all. A jury of his peers understood him quite well.

There was no cover-up. There was a failure to report, except by McQueary and Paterno. They reported.

Penn State didn't do anything wrong. Penn State did nothing wrong. A few Penn State administrators did.

This is no business of the NCAA. True. The NCAA has no jurisdiction concerning criminal and civil matters.

Their football program had nothing to do with this witch-hunt. Also true.

Football isn't the life blood of that place. Football provides the vast majority of athletic revenues at Penn State, just as it does at every university with a football program. The real lifeblood of the university is research dollars.

with the

[CitadelGrad]

You are right and the rest of us are wrong. That's entirely possible. I'm certainly better informed about this story than anyone else on the board.

Joe Pa was a great man and never did a wrong deed in his life. Yes, he was.There is no conclusive evidence that he did anything wrong.

Sandusky is just misunderstood. He isn't misunderstood at all. A jury of his peers understood him quite well.

There was no cover-up. There was a failure to report, except by McQueary and Paterno. They reported.

Penn State didn't do anything wrong. Penn State did nothing wrong. A few Penn State administrators did.

This is no business of the NCAA. True. The NCAA has no jurisdiction concerning criminal and civil matters.

Their football program had nothing to do with this witch-hunt. Also true.

Football isn't the life blood of that place. Football provides the vast majority of athletic revenues at Penn State, just as it does at every university with a football program. The real lifeblood of the university is research dollars.

JFC you're pathetic. If someone in your family was raping small boys, you'd defend them.

The only child rapist in this story is Sandusky. I'd like you to point out where I defended him.

[∞∞∞]

CBS is now reporting that there will be a 30-60 million dollar penalty levied on PSU that'll go to children's causes. This is in addition to whatever other penalties the NCAA will impose on the school.

[grizzaholic]

CBS is now reporting that there will be a 30-60 million dollar penalty levied on PSU that'll go to children's causes. This is in addition to whatever other penalties the NCAA will impose on the school.

That will have to be paid out over 30 years and 60% of it will be administration costs.