ENVIROWHACKOS! FRONT & CENTER! PREPARE TO DEFEND YOURSELVES!

[wideright82]

Does anyone else see the irony in the envirowhackos getting mad about environment helping technology ruining an environment?

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Does anyone else see the irony in the envirowhackos getting mad about environment helping technology ruining an environment?

you are aware the environmental movement is not a leviathan capable of only one position on an issue, right?
there are millions of people in the movement, and millions more who would, like me, consider themselves conservation minded, but pragmatic.

I think it's problematic to lump the entire movement together.

[wideright82]

Does anyone else see the irony in the envirowhackos getting mad about environment helping technology ruining an environment?

you are aware the environmental movement is not a leviathan capable of only one position on an issue, right?
there are millions of people in the movement, and millions more who would, like me, consider themselves conservation minded, but pragmatic.

I think it's problematic to lump the entire movement together.

Of course, I was joking. I should have added a or a or a

I was merely trying to lighten the mood of what appears to be a heated battle.

[Cap'n Cat]

Point of fact, people: NIMBY is, by far, a Conkservative phenomena. Anything that brings blacks or Mexicans or a bit of soot anywhere near the manicured lawns of an UMC enclave is in for a major soccer mom-initiated fight.

[D1B]

Point of fact, people: NIMBY is, by far, a Conkservative phenomena. Anything that brings blacks or Mexicans or a bit of soot anywhere near the manicured lawns of an UMC enclave is in for a major soccer mom-initiated fight.

IMO, for the most part it's a class issue. Property owners vs the ever-encroaching world.

I'm pretty liberal but I would be fucking pissed if they tried to build a homeless shelter or NPP in MBY.

[dbackjon]

I will be leaving shortly to have a nice dinner with Alex. I am not going to respond to this falsehoods in the thread until then.


Of course, by then, people may have come to their senses and acknowledged I was right, but I highly doubt that.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

Point of fact, people: NIMBY is, by far, a Conkservative phenomena. Anything that brings blacks or Mexicans or a bit of soot anywhere near the manicured lawns of an UMC enclave is in for a major soccer mom-initiated fight.

nope.

ever been to a gentrified urban area filled with liberals? all they do is shit to keep the roads from being upgraded, or do anything to help shorten anyones commute... sorry, I've lived in St. Paul too long. We have a "freeway" here where the speed limit is 45 because the douchenozzles on Summit Hill (where the erudite doth live) blocked the freeway in court for 15 years. They also continue to block a road which is four lanes, separated from the city and connects two major freeways from being put in to use... because it "disrupts the community"... it already exists... it's just being wasted because of these NIMBY bastards.

D1B is largely right...

[travelinman67]

I will be leaving shortly to have a nice dinner with Alex. I am not going to respond to this falsehoods in the thread until then.


Of course, by then, people may have come to their senses and acknowledged I was right, but I highly doubt that.

Hope you had a great dinner...

...but you're still as wrong as Pelosi headlining at a Mensa conference...

[Appaholic]

As usual, TMan takes a legitimate and valid argument and turns it into justification to exterminate a constitutionally protected right to assemble and protest, whether it be at the jobsite or the courtroom. I agree with your argument condemning DiFi and the other NIMBY's...they have as much credibility as Kennedy opposing the Vineyard windmills. But the leap from that rational argument to justifying your vitriolic hatred of all environmental protest is a large one indeed. You see TMan, these environmental groups don't have the large warchests to fund attorneys who can use the legal system to benefit their clients. So, at times, they have to use other means which include obstructionism.....and they go to jail for stunts like that as they should....but it buys them time much as a frivolous legal brief buys the corporation time in the courtroom....and sometimes, time is all they need as the courts don't move as fast as the bulldozer, dynamite, drill, etc., and you can't unring the environmemental bell....after the damage is done, there are no moral victories.... So your argument of these obstructionist tactics destroying ourt country are as well-thought out as my argument that all cops are nazi thugs because I've had a bad experience with 2 of the bad apples. So quit acting like a hysterical girl with an infection of cooties....

[D1B]

As usual, TMan takes a legitimate and valid argument and turns it into justification to exterminate a constitutionally protected right to assemble and protest, whether it be at the jobsite or the courtroom. I agree with your argument condemning DiFi and the other NIMBY's...they have as much credibility as Kennedy opposing the Vineyard windmills. But the leap from that rational argument to justifying your vitriolic hatred of all environmental protest is a large one indeed. You see TMan, these environmental groups don't have the large warchests to fund attorneys who can use the legal system to benefit their clients. So, at times, they have to use other means which include obstructionism.....and they go to jail for stunts like that as they should....but it buys them time much as a frivolous legal brief buys the corporation time in the courtroom....and sometimes, time is all they need as the courts don't move as fast as the bulldozer, dynamite, drill, etc., and you can't unring the environmemental bell....after the damage is done, there are no moral victories.... So your argument of these obstructionist tactics destroying ourt country are as well-thought out as my argument that all cops are nazi thugs because I've had a bad experience with 2 of the bad apples. So quit acting like a hysterical girl with an infection of cooties....

Great post Appy!

[AZGrizFan]

Wow. That escalated quickly!

[Cleets Part 2]

Wow. That escalated quickly!

Did I miss something...
Other than T-man freaking out on everybody ..?


~

[AZGrizFan]

Wow. That escalated quickly!

Did I miss something...
Other than T-man freaking out on everybody ..?


~

No...I'm just dropping lines from "Anchorman".

[wideright82]

Wow. That escalated quickly!

Did I miss something...
Other than T-man freaking out on everybody ..?


~

You missed a lot!!


Brick killed a guy with a trident!

[AZGrizFan]

Did I miss something...
Other than T-man freaking out on everybody ..?


~

You missed a lot!!


Brick killed a guy with a trident!

And there was a man on fire!

Apparently I have the sense of humor of a 23 year old.

[wideright82]

You missed a lot!!


Brick killed a guy with a trident!

And there was a man on fire!

Apparently I have the sense of humor of a 23 year old.

Well you know what they say, 60% of the time, that works everyyytime.

[AZGrizFan]

And there was a man on fire!

Apparently I have the sense of humor of a 23 year old.

Well you know what they say, 60% of the time, that works everyyytime.

That's not possible.

[ASUMountaineer]

Well you know what they say, 60% of the time, that works everyyytime.

That's not possible.

Leave it to AZ to try and bring facts into this...fcuker. Ever the pessimist.

[dbackjon]

One thing you YAHOOs are overlooking.

The land was bought, and donated to the Government for the EXPRESS PURPOSE of preserving the desert...




DiFi and I will accept your apologies now. T-man, you first.

I get that... but quite frankly, improving our economy and expanding sustainable power win the debate.

moreover, it's about thinking beyond narrow interests of preserving a patch of desert, and reducing our dependence on coal and oil power.

i'll make a deal with them... since it has a MUCH smaller footprint... let them build two new nuclear reactors in the mojave instead.

I would gladly take that trade.

And since it is not a big deal, then anything should be able to be used for something other than intended purpose?

[dbackjon]

People need to be able to express notions and concerns without being accused of being "a whack-o" because they ask a question and have a concern about something..?

Classic Republican "Rush Limbaugh style" frothy mouthed Rage isn't really required in a solar power - question and answer - discussion

This was not a debate or discussion. Feinstein wrote a letter asking for the land to be considered for designation as a National Monument to block the solar construction for which many companies had already invested big money to obtain permits. This was another liberal political cockblock-obstructionism action...period.

"...a solar power-question and answer - discussion..."

That has to be the most ignorant (or insulting) statement I've ever seen you write.

t-man you ignorant slut

See, I can insult in big font as well...

What T-doucheman is conviently not mentioning is this:

March 23, 2009 (San Diego) – Congressman Brian Bilbray (R-San Diego) has coauthored H.R. 964, a measure that would exempt any solar energy project on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) lands from Environmental Impact Report requirements. Sempra Energy, Bilbray’s third largest campaign contributor, seeks to import power from desert solar farms on BLM lands. On Friday, California’s Senator Diane Feinstein sent a blistering letter to the Secretary of the Interior opposing solar farms on BLM lands, citing massive environmental damage from scraping bare a half-million acres of desert lands proposed for solar mirrors.

SCRAPE BARE A HALF A MILLION ACRES???


I know some of you think the desert is not worth a damn - and you are wrong. The scars from development takes centuries to heal, unlike in the south or northeast, where if you abandon a piece of land, it takes mere years or decades to revert to close to natural state.

[dbackjon]

It is obvious that T-man is incapable of rationally discussing this issue - to him, all Democrats are evil shits trying to destroy America, while Republicans and big business are the FUCKING MESSIAHS saving us from their evil


BULLSHIT.


T-man - are you color blind?

Because you seem to live in this delusional black and white world. Are you not able to nuance anything?

If some is opposing a particular solar project, that automatically means they oppose ALL SOLAR?


SMFH.

[AZGrizFan]

That's not possible.

Leave it to AZ to try and bring facts into this...fcuker. Ever the pessimist.

Hey, dumbass. Rent the movie and LEARN. "That's not possible" is the next LINE after "60% of the time, it works every time".

Amateur.

[ASUMountaineer]

Leave it to AZ to try and bring facts into this...fcuker. Ever the pessimist.

Hey, dumbass. Rent the movie and LEARN. "That's not possible" is the next LINE after "60% of the time, it works every time".

Amateur.

I own the movie douchenozzle. Good Lord, you whine like a chick. I just look for ever more reasons to call you a fcuker. Hey, it's already earned me the "Champion of Nothing" title. Bitch.

[travelinman67]

...You see TMan, these environmental groups don't have the large warchests to fund attorneys who can use the legal system to benefit their clients. So, at times, they have to use other means which include obstructionism.....and they go to jail for stunts like that as they should....but it buys them time much as a frivolous legal brief buys the corporation time in the courtroom....and sometimes, time is all they need as the courts don't move as fast as the bulldozer, dynamite, drill, etc., and you can't unring the environmemental bell....

Nothing could be further from the truth, Appa.

Business has NO government advocate to represent their interests when unlawfully attacked by extremist environmental organizations.

Natural Resource Defense Council, Earth Justice, Sierra Club and hundreds of other extortion organizations operating under the cover of environmental advocacy, act as 800 lb gorillas sitting in the corner waiting for hapless business owners to wander in unprepared for the overwhelming legal onslaught they face unless they pony up extorted "mitigation" costs...

Googling Environmental litigation 2008 came up with a floodlist of names in the first two pages...

Natural Resource Defense Council
Wilderness Society
Sierra Club
Defenders of Wildlife
Greenpeace
Alaska Wilderness League
Alaska Center for the Environment
Northern Alaska Environmental Center
Trustees for Alaska
Earthjustice Legal Defense Fund
Jackson Hole Conservation Alliance
Defenders of Wildlife
Center for Biological Diversity
Humane Society of the United States
Friends of the Clearwater
Defense of Animals
PETA
National Wildlife Federation
Environmental Defense
Montana Environmental Information Center
National Parks Conservation Association
National Wildlife Federation
Ecojustice
New Mexico Wildlife Federation
New Mexico Wilderness Alliance
Southwest Environmental Center
The Wilderness Society
Forest Guardians

...all named as plaintiffs in environmental litigation filed in 2008...and that's just the first 20-30 hits on Google...!!!!!!!

And for those "lucky" businesses who bring enough money to the table, and are smart enough to pay the extortion rather than attempt to fight the action through the legal process, a futile exercise considering how the laws have been stacked in favor of environmental concerns the past 35 years, those who survive and establish a business, then are introduced to King Kong...the EPA. Now, papa gorilla can drop in whenever they choose to conduct "inspections" (approx. 23,000 annually by the U.S. EPA, not including state and local baby gorilla enforcers)

Obtaining consolidated litigation/penalty statistics on just EPA initiated actions is seemingly impossible. During my attempts, I located documents filed by librarians and law library researchers attempting to locate a source or sources to gather the data necessary for a compilation, and none succeeded. Partly due to the EPA's obfuscation of settlement statistics (a great deal for Washington, since it's a wellspring of billions in revenue, averaging between $1.5 to $5 billion annually.)

Yet you, Appa, paint the the environmental interests as some defenseless, innocent, underfunded, unprotected, virginal spirit wandering through the forests, preyed upon by beastly business interests seeking to flatten their forest and drain their rivers.

Finally, to disingenuously and illogically suggest that litigation delay is merely a device to prevent irreversible destruction is pure melarkey. The environmental lobby has mastered the art of conquest by delay. Adding to this mockery of "justice" is numerous judicial actions recently which seem to ignore factual evidence and have begun to quantify "emotion" values when calculating mitigation costs.

But...back on topic...

I guess conservatives aren't allowed to display disgust and anger when faced day after day with moronic defense of the illogically concocted schemes of obstructionism. As I've said before...

...this discussion could be ended if courts began weighing probative value of complaints against the health, economic, and quality of life interests of the public whole. Further, allowing mitigation of public interests to come into play, from both plaintiff and respondent, could assist in preventing the multitude of SOP lawsuits filed merely to obstruct (e.g. forcing the Plaintiff assert the loss to the greater good of the public is warranted and other alternatives exists.)

[Appaholic]

Yet you, Appa, paint the the environmental interests as some defenseless, innocent, underfunded, unprotected, virginal spirit wandering through the forests, preyed upon by beastly business interests seeking to flatten their forest and drain their rivers.

Finally, to disingenuously and illogically suggest that litigation delay is merely a device to prevent irreversible destruction is pure melarkey. The environmental lobby has mastered the art of conquest by delay. Adding to this mockery of "justice" is numerous judicial actions recently which seem to ignore factual evidence and have begun to quantify "emotion" values when calculating mitigation costs.

And you, TMan, paint the business community as nothing more than a collection of Mom-n-Pop operations who live within the same community that they conduct business, therefore, they would never consider the profits of their shareholder's above the quality of life or safety of the citizens within that community. I have no doubt there are frivolous lawsuits filed.....and I also have no doubt that the litigation tactics in use currently were a learned trait from observing the corporate attorneys during the EPA's infancy in the '60's and 70's...hard lessons indeed. So for every bitch and moan about obstructionism, I give you a former mountaintop in WV that is flat enough for a WalMart Supercenter.



So, we'll have to agree to disagree: I'm an envirowhacko and you are a corporate whore.