Zimmerman Trial

[BDKJMU]

There is no evidence Zimmermqn started the fight.

No evidence who threw the first punch is what you mean. You have the word of a proven liar against that of a dead juvenile.

[Chizzang]

No... The details are just as sh!tty as the Zimmerman details
But she did nothing even close to killing somebody
and got 20 years (right?)

20 years vs. Zero is a HUGE difference

If she were smart she would have just killed him and told any story she wanted... (and walked)
The moral of this story is: Kill the evidence and you can use "stand your ground"



The Black Community now has historical case precedence
If somebody tracks you: Kill them and use "stand your ground" / Case closed

God you are thick. As the Col already pointed out, "stand your ground" WAS NOT USED by the Zimmerman defense. Never mentioned once. It has zero to do with the Zimmerman case. There is no as you put it "The moral of this story is: Kill the evidence and you can use "stand your ground"". The Zimmerman case changes nothing in regard to FL's stand your ground.

Dude... Read the whole thread and relax
There's a lot of fun sh!t going on in here

[BDKJMU]

He did follow the kid though right..? (probably just short of stalking him)
and the Police did say Not to follow the kid (right?)

and now the Kid is dead and it's the kids fault..?

I might be over simplifying this (I haven't paid too close attention actually) but can you follow a guy and then kill him... and that's defending yourself..?

When GZ called the non emergency dispatcher-who is not the police or any other law enforcement officer- told him, "We don't need you to do that."

GZ broke no laws in leaving his vehicle and walking in the common area of the town home community,whether following TM or not.

The medical examiner noted that there were no injuries on TM in the autopsy except for the gunshot wound. Meanwhile GZ had a closed nose fracture, two black eyes, swelling on the side of the head, and two lacerations on the back of head. Common sense would indicate TM jumped GZ and was whipping his ass. The only eyewitness who saw the scuffle indicated such.

Florida law states that self defense applies if a person has a reasonable fear of great injury or loss of life. It is that simple. There was zero evidence presented to indicate otherwise. That is why the SPD and The D.A. Wolfinger didn't bring charges. The lead detective even testified that he found GZ's story credible and he was a state witness.

There is no question this was a politically motivated exercise. There was no evidence ever presented to a grand jury, only a special prosecutor appointed by the governor charged GZ.

Would using a grand jury be typical for a murder trial in FL? If so, why wasn't a grand jury used?

[CID1990]

Stand your ground was not invoked in this case.

It was invoked by the media, which has done everyone a gross disservice (as usual) by shaping what has become a ridiculous and uninformed narrative that has nothing to do with the facts in this case.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Chizzang]

When GZ called the non emergency dispatcher-who is not the police or any other law enforcement officer- told him, "We don't need you to do that."

GZ broke no laws in leaving his vehicle and walking in the common area of the town home community,whether following TM or not.

The medical examiner noted that there were no injuries on TM in the autopsy except for the gunshot wound. Meanwhile GZ had a closed nose fracture, two black eyes, swelling on the side of the head, and two lacerations on the back of head. Common sense would indicate TM jumped GZ and was whipping his ass. The only eyewitness who saw the scuffle indicated such.

Florida law states that self defense applies if a person has a reasonable fear of great injury or loss of life. It is that simple. There was zero evidence presented to indicate otherwise. That is why the SPD and The D.A. Wolfinger didn't bring charges. The lead detective even testified that he found GZ's story credible and he was a state witness.

There is no question this was a politically motivated exercise. There was no evidence ever presented to a grand jury, only a special prosecutor appointed by the governor charged GZ.

Would using a grand jury be typical for a murder trial in FL? If so, why wasn't a grand jury used?

Getting your ass beat by a 17 year old is grounds for killing him...


oh the humanity

[clenz]

The idea that a lighter Martin couldn't have beaten up the older/heavier Zimmerman is complete horse shit....

I've worked in juvenile delinquency centers. I'm a 6' 250lb former football player...not in the same shape I was but still able to handle my own...I will tell you this, I had my ass handed to me a couple times by kids that were 8 years younger than me, 4 inches shorter, and I had about 80-100 lbs on.


The adrenaline that a teenager has kick in during a fight is on a whole different level than an adult (part of the teenage mind thing).

[Chizzang]

The idea that a lighter Martin couldn't have beaten up the older/heavier Zimmerman is complete horse shit....

I've worked in juvenile delinquency centers. I'm a 6' 250lb former football player...not in the same shape I was but still able to handle my own...I will tell you this, I had my ass handed to me a couple times by kids that were 8 years younger than me, 4 inches shorter, and I had about 80-100 lbs on.


The adrenaline that a teenager has kick in during a fight is on a whole different level than an adult (part of the teenage mind thing).

It's still funny

[Chizzang]

Stand your ground was not invoked in this case.

It was invoked by the media, which has done everyone a gross disservice (as usual) by shaping what has become a ridiculous and uninformed narrative that has nothing to do with the facts in this case.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Good lord
You complete stick in the mud...

[clenz]

The idea that a lighter Martin couldn't have beaten up the older/heavier Zimmerman is complete horse shit....

I've worked in juvenile delinquency centers. I'm a 6' 250lb former football player...not in the same shape I was but still able to handle my own...I will tell you this, I had my ass handed to me a couple times by kids that were 8 years younger than me, 4 inches shorter, and I had about 80-100 lbs on.


The adrenaline that a teenager has kick in during a fight is on a whole different level than an adult (part of the teenage mind thing).

It's still funny

I suppose....



It's all fun and games until a hispanic shoots a black...



Seriously though, if the situation played out as it appears it did I have zero doubt in my mind Zim fear for his life/safety. Like I said, I'm a 6' 250lb former college football player and I've been in situations with 14 year old males that are 5'7 160lbs soaking wet and had thoughts of if I would be walking away from it "healthy". Trayvon was 5'11-6' and 170ish pounds...he likely had a good amount of strength to start with, and to top it off the adrenaline boost.



My take on the whole thing is this


It sucks that someone is dead (anyone in this situation regardless of age/race/sex). The fact that the situation came to what it did shows that both sides fucked up and are to blame. I think Zimmerman should be held civilly liable, but as he was criminally charge the court system worked exactly as it should. Those that are pissed about that better hope the court system works that well if they ever get arrested. Neither side acted properly, and a terrible situation has come because of it.

[Chizzang]

My take on the whole thing is this


It sucks that someone is dead (anyone in this situation regardless of age/race/sex). The fact that the situation came to what it did shows that both sides fucked up and are to blame. I think Zimmerman should be held civilly liable, but as he was criminally charge the court system worked exactly as it should. Those that are pissed about that better hope the court system works that well if they ever get arrested. Neither side acted properly, and a terrible situation has come because of it.

That ^ seems reasonable enough...
I still believe the precedent set by this case is going to have ramifications in the future

[AZGrizFan]

Would using a grand jury be typical for a murder trial in FL? If so, why wasn't a grand jury used?

Getting your ass beat by a 17 year old is grounds for killing him...


oh the humanity

Would you feel better if he'd been 30?

[Chizzang]

Getting your ass beat by a 17 year old is grounds for killing him...


oh the humanity

Would you feel better if he'd been 30?

Actually that would kinda take the fun out of it... but thanks for asking

[AZGrizFan]

Would you feel better if he'd been 30?

Actually that would kinda take the fun out of it... but thanks for asking

Let me REALLY take the fun out of it...93% of black murders are at the hands of another black person. But THIS is the one that brings out all the racists like Al, Jesse, kleanex and dal.

[Chizzang]

Actually that would kinda take the fun out of it... but thanks for asking

Let me REALLY take the fun out of it...93% of black murders are at the hands of another black person. But THIS is the one that brings out all the racists like Al, Jesse, kleanex and dal.

This a statistic I'm familiar with
however, irrelevant as Zimmerman is the worlds only Mexican Zimmerman He comes from a long line of Mexican Zimmermans

[eagleskins]

First of all, Martin was nowhere near 170 lbs. He was much closer to 150, and rail thin at that.

[bisonguy]

First of all, Martin was nowhere near 170 lbs. He was much closer to 150, and rail thin at that.

He was weight was listed at 158 at the autopsy the morning after the shooting, so add whatever postmortem voiding he had and you have his weight at the time of the shooting.

[blueballs]

First of all, Martin was nowhere near 170 lbs. He was much closer to 150, and rail thin at that.

He was weight was listed at 158 at the autopsy the morning after the shooting, so add whatever postmortem voiding he had and you have his weight at the time of the shooting.

158 after bleeding out from the wound... so he had a "walking around" weight of probably 160 or so.

Stand your ground was never invoked in the criminal trial, but the stand your ground law has ramifications in a civil trial.

GZ can invoke an immunity clause under SYG prior to the trial which will result in a hearing. In that hearing the plaintiff has to prove the law doesn't apply. It also gives the defense the chance to recover fees, lost wages, and damages from the plaintiff if they prevail.

The civil case, because of the SYG law, is not the slam dunk many in the media would have you believe, and you had better believe Crump knows it.

I also know for a fact that the HOA at the Retreat paid $1m to Martin and Fulton, which has caused a lot of angst among the homeowners because they fear a backbreaking special assessment. You'll see a rash of foreclosures and short sales in that community now as a result.

[Chizzang]

He was weight was listed at 158 at the autopsy the morning after the shooting, so add whatever postmortem voiding he had and you have his weight at the time of the shooting.

158 after bleeding out from the wound... so he had a "walking around" weight of probably 160 or so.

Stand your ground was never invoked in the criminal trial, but the stand your ground law has ramifications in a civil trial.

GZ can invoke an immunity clause under SYG prior to the trial which will result in a hearing. In that hearing the plaintiff has to prove the law doesn't apply. It also gives the defense the chance to recover fees, lost wages, and damages from the plaintiff if they prevail.

The civil case, because of the SYG law, is not the slam dunk many in the media would have you believe, and you had better believe Crump knows it.

I also know for a fact that the HOA at the Retreat paid $1m to Martin and Fulton, which has caused a lot of angst among the homeowners because they fear a backbreaking special assessment. You'll see a rash of foreclosures and short sales in that community now as a result.

Damn... Back in the good 'ol days
You used to just be able to kill a N***er with no consequences... Now you got short sales

This signals the end of America

[Baldy]

158 after bleeding out from the wound... so he had a "walking around" weight of probably 160 or so.

Stand your ground was never invoked in the criminal trial, but the stand your ground law has ramifications in a civil trial.

GZ can invoke an immunity clause under SYG prior to the trial which will result in a hearing. In that hearing the plaintiff has to prove the law doesn't apply. It also gives the defense the chance to recover fees, lost wages, and damages from the plaintiff if they prevail.

The civil case, because of the SYG law, is not the slam dunk many in the media would have you believe, and you had better believe Crump knows it.

I also know for a fact that the HOA at the Retreat paid $1m to Martin and Fulton, which has caused a lot of angst among the homeowners because they fear a backbreaking special assessment. You'll see a rash of foreclosures and short sales in that community now as a result.

Damn... Back in the good 'ol days
You used to just be able to kill a N***er with no consequences...

You still can in Chicago and Detroit and Oakland and...

[ASUG8]

I've been following this only from a distance, but my take:

* Zimmerman shouldn't have been packing
* Zimmerman should have backed off when he was instructed to do so by 911
* Zimmerman likely provoked the response from Martin
* Zimmerman got himself into a "stand your ground" situation from this provocation

That being said:
* The State had an opportunity to compile evidence and prepare an adequate case
* The prosecution either was (a) poorly prepared, or (b) had inadequate evidence to prepare a compelling case to a jury of his peers
* After weighing the evidence, a jury of his peers opted for no charges
* The justice system was followed

I don't like the idea that a kid is dead and a guy is walking around now scot free, but that's how the system worked for better or worse. His vigilante justice will likely be his own demise, even on the outside of a prison. I don't envy the situation he got himself into, because he'll never be able to keep from checking his back.

[Ibanez]

I had a uber long, JSO-esque post typed but I said 'fuck it" and deleted it. Facts (or the lack thereof) are facts and some people will ignore them. As with a religious or political discussion, most people are more EMOTIONAL and less INTELLIGENT on the topic. Emotional people cannot be reasoned with. Emotional people will ignore anything, facts be damned, if it doesn't support their belief or opinion.

So you think people are not going to respond emotionally to this..?
and you think this case isn't going to have some strange consequences..?

An entire community of people are going to come to a completely different conclusion than you came to and they very well might respond in a way you find "unintelligent"



I'm playing devils advocate sure... but play this out in your head a little

I didn't say that and I think it's abundantly clear that people have responded emotionally. It's comical that of all the black deaths in this country, it's THIS one that gets attention. I guess it's ok if it's black on black crime.

[Ibanez]

My take on the whole thing is this


It sucks that someone is dead (anyone in this situation regardless of age/race/sex). The fact that the situation came to what it did shows that both sides fucked up and are to blame. I think Zimmerman should be held civilly liable, but as he was criminally charge the court system worked exactly as it should. Those that are pissed about that better hope the court system works that well if they ever get arrested. Neither side acted properly, and a terrible situation has come because of it.

That ^ seems reasonable enough...
I still believe the precedent set by this case is going to have ramifications in the future

Do you think so? Did Casey Anthony's acquittal make it legal to kill your baby and get away with it? Did OJ Simpsons trial make it legal to murder your ex wife?

[Gil Dobie]

Getting your ass beat by a 17 year old is grounds for killing him...


oh the humanity

Would you feel better if he'd been 30?

Should have been a fetus, then the liberal media would have ignored the story and FOX would have had a spazfest.

Funny how Liberals are calling Zimmerman white and Conservatives are calling him hispanic.

[YoUDeeMan]

I didn't say that and I think it's abundantly clear that people have responded emotionally. It's comical that of all the black deaths in this country, it's THIS one that gets attention. I guess it's ok if it's black on black crime.

Most blacks, klean and dal, for example, are racists. They don't care if a black man kills a black man...they don't need to know the reasons for that because they already know the ugly truth behind most of those murders. But hey, if a white man kills a black man, klean and Co. go ape and take to the streets in protest.

93% of blacks are killed by blacks...but g-dammit, those crackers are the real problem where we want the focus!

You really could not write and perform a funnier, darker comedy show.

[YoUDeeMan]

I've been following this only from a distance, but my take:

* Zimmerman shouldn't have been packing
* Zimmerman should have backed off when he was instructed to do so by 911
* Zimmerman likely provoked the response from Martin
* Zimmerman got himself into a "stand your ground" situation from this provocation

* Nonsense...if you have a permit, you can carry. End of story.
* 911 can only make suggestions...the person reporting the issue is the one in the best position to make that call. Using your superior 20/20 hindsight, the only reason you say Z should have backed off is because Trayvon decided to attack Z and things got messy (more so for Trayvon). If Z had followed Trayvon, or some other perp, and observed the suspect robbing/beating an old lady, you would be praising Z as a hero for his dedication and independent thinking.
* Z did no such thing. You can't "provoke" me into doing something I don't already want to do. Z might have questioned Trayvon (certainly legal....Trayvon could have ignored Z), but Z certainly didn't attack Trayvon (the injuries were on Trayvon's fist, not Z's). "Provocation" is a pathetic argument because it takes a weak, willing person to be provoked.
* SYG was not used. Z was attacked and defended himself...as should anyone.