Redskins New Name

[93henfan]

Alyssa, can you send me a case of duty-free tobacco? I like...

RedMan.

[CAA Flagship]

I know mascot has many definitions. It means pet. We don't want to be pets because we are human beings.
Mascot can be a charm like a shrunken head that carries magic like a soul trapped inside it.
Mascot is skinwalking. In skinwalking we can take an animal like a buffalo and skin it and wear its skin to (magically) become a buffalo. This is how humans can become something else. This is what you are seeing with costumes. It's the same thing and it is inappropriate to do that to another person. The Washington NFL team is called R******* (I can't say or spell the word). To us that means a skinned (dead) Indian person.
It just goes on forever.

Washington uses a racist word as a mascot name. That's really all one needs to know in order to know it shouldn't be used. It's really that simple to understand. But there are still people who refuse. That tells you where they are.

Do you really believe that the management of the Washington franchise, it's employees, and it's fans associate the name "Redskins" with skinned (dead) Indian persons? To you it may be considered a derogatory word. But the people who use the word don't have any derogatory slant at all. That is an important piece of this conversation.
But I hear what you are saying. If just one side has a problem with it, or is using the term in a derogatory way, then that makes it wrong. In this case, I don't see it being used in an evil manner. I've talked to people in their 70's and 80's that still refer to blacks as "colored" people. In most cases, it is not meant to be derogatory. It's just that they have not evolved with the times to use alternate language to illustrate the same meaning. This is a situation where you are the one that objects to the use of the term.

Now to get this straight, are you against Redskins but OK with tribe names such as Seminole and Sioux, or are you against all Indian references? You say that mascots should not be people but there are many mascots that are including Engineers, Lumberjacks, Mountaineers, Explorers, Colonels, Mariners, Generals, Captains, Trolls , Matadors, Farmers, Pirates, Buccaneers, Raiders, Magicians, Marauders, etc. (I know several Marauders and they don't seem to care. OK. Just kidding. ). The point is that these are people who wore, or still wear, distinct outfits and lived, or still live, distinct lifestyles. When Indian mascots are portrayed in athletics, it is with feathers, leather vests, war paint, etc. This is more of a historical reference than a present day one. It's not like they are dressed like Black Jack dealers and called Indians (by the way, that would be a good mascot because those fuckers never lose ). I guess what I am saying is that I'm OK that you look for change, but don't feel like the term is being used in a derogatory way.

[89Hen]

Do you really believe that the management of the Washington franchise, it's employees, and it's fans associate the name "Redskins" with skinned (dead) Indian persons? To you it may be considered a derogatory word. But the people who use the word don't have any derogatory slant at all. That is an important piece of this conversation.

So as long as I don't think gook is derogatory, I'm OK to use it. Good to know.

[BDKJMU]

Are you volunteering to move back to Austria? Didn't think so.

No, but that's why I think Native American deserve preferential treatment.

If you were born in the US you are a native american. We all are native Americans..

You must be referring to American Indians...

[BDKJMU]

Alyssa, can you send me a case of duty-free tobacco? I like...

RedMan.

I'll take some Macanudo Churchills....

[Ibanez]

Oh Jesus. What a stupid post. I guess Notre Dame should change their name. We don't want to upset the Irish. I'm surprised the Irish haven't said anything against this. Tampa Bay is doing Buccaneers a disservice and are ruining the name of those brave men of the high seas. I'll contact my high school and tell them that referring to it's student body as the "Battling Bishops" has a negative connotation and hurts my feelings. NAU better get in line, Lumberjacks around the country might not want to be associated with a team from the SW. I personally, hope the New England Patriots change their name. I feel the word "patriot" is to be only used in songs that sing the praises of those men that fought for independence, not for a Super Bowl.

Then again, we don't want to use animals. Some animals are aggressive, like the Tiger or Panther and that might make some people uncomfortable. Let's just go with colors. No, wait. We can't use colors b/c someone will be the Montana Whites or the California Blacks and that'll cause trouble; especially when the whites beat the blacks. So, let's use letters: The Washington A's battle it out against the Seattle C's, Sunday night at 8 o'clock.

I've read your posts and you're one dumb fuck. You do not show basic understanding. Fuck you. I do believe how narrow you are.
I'm not Irish. The Irish can speak for themselves. Don't drag them into this, drama queen. You stray off topic and your tactics will never work with me.

My Native American wife thinks you should quit being a bitch. So does her father. You're not smart enough to grasp my commentary. Obviously, potentially derogatory or offensive names only bother a small population. I don't think we should offend, but is there really a massive protest and outcry over a football team using a name? Also, I don't know how one is "narrow." I will say this, the Indian tribes have bigger problems then a football team using a name. Pick your battles. This name is nothing in comparison to the real problems. People aren't going around calling Indians "savages", "redskin" , " brass ankles" or anything like that. Your are creating a problem out of nothing. It isn't the New Mexico Wetbacks or the Atlanta Field Hands.


Use the name to promote tolerance and understanding.

[Ibanez]

There is some truth to this. Having a team named after a specific group can help to perpetuate that group's history. As someone who is primarily of Scandinavian origin, I don't get upset at the name Vikings or Norsemen. IMO, having the Seminoles or Sioux as a mascot isn't a bad thing as long as it is respectful and there is some relationship between the mascot and the tribes' traditions (i.e. if the mascot's dance is based on that tribe's traditional dance) and it helps to carry on and educate others about the tribe.

I do think that Redskins is derogatory and needs to be consigned to the dust heap of history.

I know mascot has many definitions. It means pet. We don't want to be pets because we are human beings.
Mascot can be a charm like a shrunken head that carries magic like a soul trapped inside it.
Mascot is skinwalking. In skinwalking we can take an animal like a buffalo and skin it and wear its skin to (magically) become a buffalo. This is how humans can become something else. This is what you are seeing with costumes. It's the same thing and it is inappropriate to do that to another person. The Washington NFL team is called R******* (I can't say or spell the word). To us that means a skinned (dead) Indian person.
It just goes on forever.

Washington uses a racist word as a mascot name. That's really all one needs to know in order to know it shouldn't be used. It's really that simple to understand. But there are still people who refuse. That tells you where they are.

how fucking dumb. So we shouldn't have mascots like Patriots or Vikings because it might imply something that isn't there?

Here I thought redskin was a named given by Europeans to describe the color of your skin. Oh wait, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

Can we call you scalpers?

[Ibanez]

I get how you can be offended but its really just nonsense. Groups today are so sensitive.

[CAA Flagship]

Do you really believe that the management of the Washington franchise, it's employees, and it's fans associate the name "Redskins" with skinned (dead) Indian persons? To you it may be considered a derogatory word. But the people who use the word don't have any derogatory slant at all. That is an important piece of this conversation.

So as long as I don't think gook is derogatory, I'm OK to use it. Good to know.

I'm not saying it is OK to use. I'm saying that people using the term are not intentionally putting down Indians. To most, it is just a word. There is no thought about it's negative meaning.

[89Hen]

So as long as I don't think gook is derogatory, I'm OK to use it. Good to know.

I'm not saying it is OK to use. I'm saying that people using the term are not intentionally putting down Indians. To most, it is just a word. There is no thought about it's negative meaning.

So it's not OK to use?

[Ibanez]

I'm not saying it is OK to use. I'm saying that people using the term are not intentionally putting down Indians. To most, it is just a word. There is no thought about it's negative meaning.

So it's not OK to use?

Quit being obtuse.

[Ibanez]

I had an interesting experience yesterday. I was a traffic light and there was a white boy and black boy skateboarding. They stopped at the corner and the white runs across to the other side (right by my car) he's followed by the black kid. The white boy then says, "Damn. We run like niggers!" The black kid replied, "Yeah. But you run like a bitch." I'll guess that they were around 13 yrs old. No more than 13 or 14 though.

[89Hen]

So it's not OK to use?

Quit being obtuse.

Huh? I want clarification from flaggy. Does he think it's OK to use. I know some older people that use "colored" or "niggar" and they don't mean it as derrogatory.

[Ibanez]

Quit being obtuse.

Huh? I want clarification from flaggy. Does he think it's OK to use. I know some older people that use "colored" or "niggar" and they don't mean it as derrogatory.

It's think it's pretty clear that the billion dollar franchise that is part of uber Political Correct America doesn't use the term "Redskin" in a derrogatory fashion. I'm be willing to bet, that when the name was chosen, a group of white men did not sit around and choose a name that was intentionally offensive.

[89Hen]

Huh? I want clarification from flaggy. Does he think it's OK to use. I know some older people that use "colored" or "niggar" and they don't mean it as derrogatory.

It's think it's pretty clear that the billion dollar franchise that is part of uber Political Correct America doesn't use the term "Redskin" in a derrogatory fashion. I'm be willing to bet, that when the name was chosen, a group of white men did not sit around and choose a name that was intentionally offensive.

So as long as a group of white men don't find 'Darkie' offensive, they are OK to use it however they like. Gotcha.

[Ibanez]

It's think it's pretty clear that the billion dollar franchise that is part of uber Political Correct America doesn't use the term "Redskin" in a derrogatory fashion. I'm be willing to bet, that when the name was chosen, a group of white men did not sit around and choose a name that was intentionally offensive.

So as long as a group of white men don't find 'Darkie' offensive, they are OK to use it however they like. Gotcha.

I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. You're twisting the words to create an argument. You can't stand it when someone has an opposing view.

[Pwns]

What I don't understand is how selectively context is ignored with things like this.

Example: It's always said that it's okay for rappers to use the N-word non-stop because you have to look at the context of how it is used. Sports mascots are things that are revered and/or feared. Mascots and nicknames are not picked to mock whatever whatever that particular mascot is. In context, how can anyone say Native-American mascots are offensive? Either the context matters or it doesn't. No one gets to pick and choose when the context matters and when it is irrelevant.

[89Hen]

So as long as a group of white men don't find 'Darkie' offensive, they are OK to use it however they like. Gotcha.

I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. You're twisting the words to create an argument. You can't stand it when someone has an opposing view.

This is exactly why I wanted Flaggy to clarify. You can too. Sure seems to me like you are saying since the Redskins don't think the name is offensive, it's not offensive.

I'm fine with you thinking the name isn't offensive. But whether you or I find it offensive is meaningless. It's up to the people to whom it refers.

[Ibanez]

I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. You're twisting the words to create an argument. You can't stand it when someone has an opposing view.

This is exactly why I wanted Flaggy to clarify. You can too. Sure seems to me like you are saying since the Redskins don't think the name is offensive, it's not offensive.

I'm fine with you thinking the name isn't offensive. But whether you or I find it offensive is meaningless. It's up to the people to whom it refers.

So poll Native Americans and ask. Wait, didn't SI already to that? Didn't something like 75% say they didn't care/weren't offended?

[89Hen]

This is exactly why I wanted Flaggy to clarify. You can too. Sure seems to me like you are saying since the Redskins don't think the name is offensive, it's not offensive.

I'm fine with you thinking the name isn't offensive. But whether you or I find it offensive is meaningless. It's up to the people to whom it refers.

So poll Native Americans and ask. Wait, didn't SI already to that? Didn't something like 75% say they didn't care/weren't offended?

Don't know, but that would mean 25% were.

[Ibanez]

So poll Native Americans and ask. Wait, didn't SI already to that? Didn't something like 75% say they didn't care/weren't offended?

Don't know, but that would mean 25% were.

Obviously. But we live in a majority rules world.

[89Hen]

Don't know, but that would mean 25% were.

Obviously. But we live in a majority rules world.

No we don't.

[CAA Flagship]

I didn't say that. I didn't imply that. You're twisting the words to create an argument. You can't stand it when someone has an opposing view.

This is exactly why I wanted Flaggy to clarify. You can too. Sure seems to me like you are saying since the Redskins don't think the name is offensive, it's not offensive.

I'm fine with you thinking the name isn't offensive. But whether you or I find it offensive is meaningless. It's up to the people to whom it refers.

Is it OK to use? I said early on that if somebody has a problem with it, or if it is used in a derogatory way, then it is in the "offensive" category and should not be used. I was just saying that the people that use the words Washington Redskins have no ill feelings towards Indians.

Take the word "liberal". When I use it, it is meant to be derogatory most of the time . Except when I use it to try to convince someone to give me a little more (don't be afraid to be liberal with that bourbon pour ). But the word liberal is not offensive to liberals. So I can get away with that.

[Cap'n Cat]

The Washington Conks?

[Ibanez]

Obviously. But we live in a majority rules world.

No we don't.

Yeah, we kind of do. In sports, politics, etc...