Montana "thing"

[uofmman1122]

This exact situation has happened to the Griz more times than EWU has made the playoffs.

Before 2010, CAA and Southern teams ALWAYS got to play the terrible eastern non power conference teams, while Montana had to play good MVC or Southland teams.

Certain teams are always going to get lucky draws. If you can't beat any team in the field, you won't get far. Just worry about who you have to face.

Also, cry more.

Seriously you guys are such whiners.

I'm not crying about having to play the MVFC - we are 2-0 against that conference in recent years in the playoffs.

It is very doubtful that Montana has been in this situation "more times than EWU has made the playoffs". But please exaggerate your claims some more. I guess I should not be surprised that you all are defending this piece of work. Just gives more credence to what many of us have known for a long time: Many Montana either don't know shit, or are so heavily biased they can't see past their own faces.

U MAD, BRO?

[kalm]

Oh give me a fucking break. If the roles were reversed, and the following happened:

1.) UM beat NAU and finished one spot higher in the conference, with one less conference loss.

AND

2.) UM finished 8-0 in the Big Sky, but somehow drew a much more difficult matchup as the NUMBER 3 SEED (regardless of who wins in the first round) than a conference mate who drew the NUMBER 8 SEED.

Egriz would be going full retard. And you know it. So just stop the charade, and admit the playoff committee is a joke and that the Griz got over big time.

But Sagarin and the RPI says it's right, so it must be gospel.

You guys are apparently unbeatable, so why do you give a fuck how tough your oppenents are?

And saying that we have an easy path being the 8th seed when that entails traveling to Fargo is almost too stupid to even address.

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

[EWURanger]

I'm not crying about having to play the MVFC - we are 2-0 against that conference in recent years in the playoffs.

It is very doubtful that Montana has been in this situation "more times than EWU has made the playoffs". But please exaggerate your claims some more. I guess I should not be surprised that you all are defending this piece of work. Just gives more credence to what many of us have known for a long time: Many Montana either don't know ****, or are so heavily biased they can't see past their own faces.

U MAD, BRO?

Not at all, but when the best argument I have heard is the SRS (computer models), it kind of proves my point. The SRS is obviously a deeply flawed system and I doubt it'll be around that much longer.

[rationalgriz]

You guys are apparently unbeatable, so why do you give a **** how tough your oppenents are?

And saying that we have an easy path being the 8th seed when that entails traveling to Fargo is almost too stupid to even address.

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

Kalm, my question is do you really know anything about Coastal? Are you sure that UM has the easier path?

I also know that EWU is hanging their hat on sneaking up on OSU, and it was a great win, but have they really beaten anyone else? No BSC team has that great of a resume.

[rationalgriz]

U MAD, BRO?

Not at all, but when the best argument I have heard is the SRS (computer models), it kind of proves my point. The SRS is obviously a deeply flawed system and I doubt it'll be around that much longer.

Actually, the SRS is going to have even more control next season.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The Bison lose 24 seniors this year but will be very good next year as well. The defense rotates many players in and the offense will be good next year also.

The Bison will drop off some, you would expect that with this senior class graduating, but they will be in the 'hunt' next year too.

Nobody is buying that crap.. Dj Mcnorton is a senior right? Brock jenson is a senior right.. This is it.

DJ McNorton??


He graduated in '11.

You obviously haven't watched this Bison team play; they rotate a ton of players in. All of those 24 seniors are not starters. The FR and RFR classes are awesome. Plus the verbals so far this year look really good.

Looking at our schedule next year, I see anywhere from 7-4 to 9-2....maybe better if some holes get filled.

[EWURanger]

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

Kalm, my question is do you really know anything about Coastal? Are you sure that UM has the easier path?

I also know that EWU is hanging their hat on sneaking up on OSU, and it was a great win, but have they really beaten anyone else? No BSC team has that great of a resume.

Who mentioned anything about OSU? With an 8-0 conference record, we would have been seeded even without the OSU win. We probably wouldn't have earned the #3 seed, but how many times was Montana given a high seed when they cruised through their Big Sky schedules? I'd guess quite a few times.

[EWURanger]

Not at all, but when the best argument I have heard is the SRS (computer models), it kind of proves my point. The SRS is obviously a deeply flawed system and I doubt it'll be around that much longer.

Actually, the SRS is going to have even more control next season.

Ok. So I ask again: Can you provide a more compelling reason for what I outlined above other than the SRS?

[Grizalltheway]

You guys are apparently unbeatable, so why do you give a fuck how tough your oppenents are?

And saying that we have an easy path being the 8th seed when that entails traveling to Fargo is almost too stupid to even address.

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

You're both also apparently forgetting the fact that teams from the same conference who have already played can't face each other in the second round. If EWU had played NAU instead, the winner of SDSU-NAU would probably be sent to Missoula.

[EWURanger]

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

You're both also apparently forgetting the fact that teams from the same conference who have already played can't face each other in the second round. If EWU had played NAU instead, the winner of SDSU-NAU would probably be sent to Missoula.

Finally! A somewhat reasonable argument other than computer models. And I think they could have worked around that, to be honest.

[rationalgriz]

Actually, the SRS is going to have even more control next season.

Ok. So I ask again: Can you provide a more compelling reason for what I outlined above other than the SRS?

EWU, I actually think NAU did get a raw deal. My only conclusion is that NAU did themselves no favor by only playing an 11 game schedule, which may have been big help for Montana when determining the GPI and SRS values. As for the Coastal Carolina/Bethune Cookman and NAU/SDSU argument, how else can you compare teams to each other without them actually playing outside of using some sort of computer system that is supposed integrate SOS etc. In the tools they used, Coastal was actually ranked higher than Montana, NAU, and SDSU. Bethune Cookman is rated better than SDSU also. The system may be flawed, but it is what they use.

[rationalgriz]

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

You're both also apparently forgetting the fact that teams from the same conference who have already played can't face each other in the second round. If EWU had played NAU instead, the winner of SDSU-NAU would probably be sent to Missoula.

This is incorrect, here is what the rule is:

Teams from the same conference will not be paired for first-round games or for second round games when both teams are playing their first games of the championship (except for teams from the same conference that did not play against each other during the regular season; such teams may play each other in the first/second round).

Since it would be NAU's second game, they could have gone to EWU or UM.

[EWURanger]

Ok. So I ask again: Can you provide a more compelling reason for what I outlined above other than the SRS?

EWU, I actually think NAU did get a raw deal. My only conclusion is that NAU did themselves no favor by only playing an 11 game schedule, which may have been big help for Montana when determining the GPI and SRS values. As for the Coastal Carolina/Bethune Cookman and NAU/SDSU argument, how else can you compare teams to each other without them actually playing outside of using some sort of computer system that is supposed integrate SOS etc. In the tools they used, Coastal was actually ranked higher than Montana, NAU, and SDSU. Bethune Cookman is rated better than SDSU also. The system may be flawed, but it is what they use.

And that's my point. It's a very flawed system - does anyone actually believe that Coastal and Bethune-Cookman are better teams than Montana or SDSU? That is, anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of the FCS?

As to your argument about NAU having only 11 games, I don't know if I buy that. Not as it relates to Montana, anyway. NAU played all Division I teams. Their only losses were to Arizona (not a bad loss at all), and Montana State (not really that bad a loss, either).

If the reason Montana was selected over NAU is because of the fact that UM played 12 games, it is hard to imagine that Oklahoma Panhandle State was the driving force behind that decision. I think you see my point.

[Grizalltheway]

You're both also apparently forgetting the fact that teams from the same conference who have already played can't face each other in the second round. If EWU had played NAU instead, the winner of SDSU-NAU would probably be sent to Missoula.

Finally! A somewhat reasonable argument other than computer models. And I think they could have worked around that, to be honest.

Well it turns out I was wrong anyway, so scratch that one.

[bucs90]

EWU, I actually think NAU did get a raw deal. My only conclusion is that NAU did themselves no favor by only playing an 11 game schedule, which may have been big help for Montana when determining the GPI and SRS values. As for the Coastal Carolina/Bethune Cookman and NAU/SDSU argument, how else can you compare teams to each other without them actually playing outside of using some sort of computer system that is supposed integrate SOS etc. In the tools they used, Coastal was actually ranked higher than Montana, NAU, and SDSU. Bethune Cookman is rated better than SDSU also. The system may be flawed, but it is what they use.

And that's my point. It's a very flawed system - does anyone actually believe that Coastal and Bethune-Cookman are better teams than Montana or SDSU? That is, anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of the FCS?

:

Its the Boise State situation for Coastal and Bethune. If they had the same record, but their name was "Georgia Southern" or "Appalachian" they would be treated different. Probably by the selection committee too. Even though Coastal's conference OWNED the SoCon this year on the field.

Coastal is loaded with good players. Some SEC transfers. In fact, Coastal Carolina has already beaten 2 playoff teams, SC State and SoCon champion Furman, this year.

[rationalgriz]

EWU, I actually think NAU did get a raw deal. My only conclusion is that NAU did themselves no favor by only playing an 11 game schedule, which may have been big help for Montana when determining the GPI and SRS values. As for the Coastal Carolina/Bethune Cookman and NAU/SDSU argument, how else can you compare teams to each other without them actually playing outside of using some sort of computer system that is supposed integrate SOS etc. In the tools they used, Coastal was actually ranked higher than Montana, NAU, and SDSU. Bethune Cookman is rated better than SDSU also. The system may be flawed, but it is what they use.

And that's my point. It's a very flawed system - does anyone actually believe that Coastal and Bethune-Cookman are better teams than Montana or SDSU? That is, anyone with a reasonable amount of knowledge of the FCS?

As to your argument about NAU having only 11 games, I don't know if I buy that. Not as it relates to Montana, anyway. NAU played all Division I teams. Their only losses were to Arizona (not a bad loss at all), and Montana State (not really that bad a loss, either).

If the reason Montana was selected over NAU is because of the fact that UM played 12 games, it is hard to imagine that Oklahoma Panhandle State was the driving force behind that decision. I think you see my point.

But is there any real way to know which team is better between Coastal, Montana, Bethune, or SDSU at this point in time? I also stated that I believe NAU got a raw deal.

[kalm]

Different argument. I don't recall anyone saying the Griz have an easier path. Just an easier round of 16 matchup. The easier path goes to the team that finished 8-0 in conference and actually beat more than one team with a winning a record (5 to be exact) beat two out of three playoff teams, and 1-1 against FBS.

The Griz are like a Big South or MEAC AQ, all full of bluster about a glossy 10-2 record without winning a game against real competition.

Kalm, my question is do you really know anything about Coastal? Are you sure that UM has the easier path?

I also know that EWU is hanging their hat on sneaking up on OSU, and it was a great win, but have they really beaten anyone else? No BSC team has that great of a resume.

We beat two playoff teams, one of them a 10-2, over seeded and over-ranked #5 team in the nation We also had wins against three other .500 or better teams in MSU, PSU (mistake prone but with the talent to almost beat Cal), and Cal Poly who was a couple of special teams blunders away from making the playoffs. Throw in the OSU, Toledo, and SHSU and it's tough to find a tougher schedule among playoff contenders.

As for Coastal, they're pretty good and did beat two playoff teams in SCST and Furman, but perhaps two of the weakest teams in the field. Bethune-Cookman might have the better resume with an FBS win and a win against another playoff team in TSU. But winning close games against the OVC and a very down Southern Conference do not mean that the Big South and MEAC have arrived. Improved perhaps…but I'd still much rather play either of them than SDSU or NAU.

[rationalgriz]

Kalm, my question is do you really know anything about Coastal? Are you sure that UM has the easier path?

I also know that EWU is hanging their hat on sneaking up on OSU, and it was a great win, but have they really beaten anyone else? No BSC team has that great of a resume.

We beat two playoff teams, one of them a 10-2, over seeded and over-ranked #5 team in the nation We also had wins against three other .500 or better teams in MSU, PSU (mistake prone but with the talent to almost beat Cal), and Cal Poly who was a couple of special teams blunders away from making the playoffs. Throw in the OSU, Toledo, and SHSU and it's tough to find a tougher schedule among playoff contenders.

As for Coastal, they're pretty good and did beat two playoff teams in SCST and Furman, but perhaps two of the weakest teams in the field. Bethune-Cookman might have the better resume with an FBS win and a win against another playoff team in TSU. But winning close games against the OVC and a very down Southern Conference do not mean that the Big South and MEAC have arrived. Improved perhaps…but I'd still much rather play either of them than SDSU or NAU.

Kalm, my point, are UM, MSU, or PSU really that good or do they all benefit from a mediocre conference? I also don't really care who EWU lost to, because it does not really matter. Outside of the OSU win by EWU, the BSC does not have a single other good OOC win. I also believe that EWU got the more difficult matchup, but when teams have not played each other it is difficult to really know.

[uofmman1122]

Kalm, my question is do you really know anything about Coastal? Are you sure that UM has the easier path?

I also know that EWU is hanging their hat on sneaking up on OSU, and it was a great win, but have they really beaten anyone else? No BSC team has that great of a resume.

We beat two playoff teams, one of them a 10-2, over seeded and over-ranked #5 team in the nation We also had wins against three other .500 or better teams in MSU, PSU (mistake prone but with the talent to almost beat Cal), and Cal Poly who was a couple of special teams blunders away from making the playoffs. Throw in the OSU, Toledo, and SHSU and it's tough to find a tougher schedule among playoff contenders.

As for Coastal, they're pretty good and did beat two playoff teams in SCST and Furman, but perhaps two of the weakest teams in the field. Bethune-Cookman might have the better resume with an FBS win and a win against another playoff team in TSU. But winning close games against the OVC and a very down Southern Conference do not mean that the Big South and MEAC have arrived. Improved perhaps…but I'd still much rather play either of them than SDSU or NAU.

So would I, but we don't get to choose.

If we aren't going by the SRS, like you and Ranger are suggesting, then Montana should have gotten at least a 5 or 6 seed. Maine just got trounced, McNeese has been destroyed in their losses and barely beat a terrible Lamar team, and Towson lost to two non-playoff teams. I think NAU and Montana have better cases for a seed than McNeese and Maine, but I'm biased.

And again, we got possibly the easiest second round matchup, but it's offset by having to go to Fargo if we win. If we make the semifinals, we definitely will have earned it, regardless of who our opening round opponent is.

[kalm]

We beat two playoff teams, one of them a 10-2, over seeded and over-ranked #5 team in the nation We also had wins against three other .500 or better teams in MSU, PSU (mistake prone but with the talent to almost beat Cal), and Cal Poly who was a couple of special teams blunders away from making the playoffs. Throw in the OSU, Toledo, and SHSU and it's tough to find a tougher schedule among playoff contenders.

As for Coastal, they're pretty good and did beat two playoff teams in SCST and Furman, but perhaps two of the weakest teams in the field. Bethune-Cookman might have the better resume with an FBS win and a win against another playoff team in TSU. But winning close games against the OVC and a very down Southern Conference do not mean that the Big South and MEAC have arrived. Improved perhaps…but I'd still much rather play either of them than SDSU or NAU.

Kalm, my point, are UM, MSU, or PSU really that good or do they all benefit from a mediocre conference? I also don't really care who EWU lost to, because it does not really matter. Outside of the OSU win by EWU, the BSC does not have a single other good OOC win. I also believe that EWU got the more difficult matchup, but when teams have not played each other it is difficult to really know.

Compared to who? The thing is, you just don't get that many winnable OOC games against quality FCS opponents. We had one this year in SHSU but lost. SDSU has a real nice win against SELA. EIU had a couple with wins against SIU and ISUr, but even those aren't that great considering neither are a playoff team.

But for the most part, if you look around FCS, many of your playoff caliber teams play one or two FBS (unlikely wins) and teams from weaker conferences. Look at NDSU, Maine's, and Towson's for example. An outlier would SELA who played SDSU, and Samford.

It does seem like you are starting to see more of these matchups - especially between the OVC, MVC, Big South, and Southern - which is encouraging. However, it's always going to be tough for BSC teams due to geography.

So no, compared with the rest of FCS, I don't think the Big Sky is a mediocre conference. But we'll find out soon, won't we?

[kalm]

We beat two playoff teams, one of them a 10-2, over seeded and over-ranked #5 team in the nation We also had wins against three other .500 or better teams in MSU, PSU (mistake prone but with the talent to almost beat Cal), and Cal Poly who was a couple of special teams blunders away from making the playoffs. Throw in the OSU, Toledo, and SHSU and it's tough to find a tougher schedule among playoff contenders.

As for Coastal, they're pretty good and did beat two playoff teams in SCST and Furman, but perhaps two of the weakest teams in the field. Bethune-Cookman might have the better resume with an FBS win and a win against another playoff team in TSU. But winning close games against the OVC and a very down Southern Conference do not mean that the Big South and MEAC have arrived. Improved perhaps…but I'd still much rather play either of them than SDSU or NAU.

So would I, but we don't get to choose.

If we aren't going by the SRS, like you and Ranger are suggesting, then Montana should have gotten at least a 5 or 6 seed. Maine just got trounced, McNeese has been destroyed in their losses and barely beat a terrible Lamar team, and Towson lost to two non-playoff teams. I think NAU and Montana have better cases for a seed than McNeese and Maine, but I'm biased.

And again, we got possibly the easiest second round matchup, but it's offset by having to go to Fargo if we win. If we make the semifinals, we definitely will have earned it, regardless of who our opening round opponent is.

Agreed on Maine but not on McNeese due to their blow-out win over USF. I didn't say we aren't going by SRS, but if we are…I do agree with Ranger that it's seriously flawed.

[AZGrizFan]

Montana rightfully earned their spot. NAU should have played 12 games. If they were 10-2id be a different story. NAU also didn't face EWU.

Yep. NAU had by far the easiest schedule to GET to 9-2 of any of the 4 teams in from the BSC.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Montana rightfully earned their spot. NAU should have played 12 games. If they were 10-2id be a different story. NAU also didn't face EWU.

Yep. NAU had by far the easiest schedule to GET to 9-2 of any of the 4 teams in from the BSC.

They beat the Griz head-to-head and should have been seeded ahead of the Griz.

Plus a better conference record.

NAU got screwed....

[rationalgriz]

Montana rightfully earned their spot. NAU should have played 12 games. If they were 10-2id be a different story. NAU also didn't face EWU.

Yep. NAU had by far the easiest schedule to GET to 9-2 of any of the 4 teams in from the BSC.

I don't buy this, none of the 4 BSC playoff teams played all the others. True that NAU did not play EWU, but UM did not play SUU. Both these games could have made a difference.

[AZGrizFan]

Yep. NAU had by far the easiest schedule to GET to 9-2 of any of the 4 teams in from the BSC.

They beat the Griz head-to-head and should have been seeded ahead of the Griz.

Plus a better conference record.

NAU got screwed....

Yeah, better conference record because they got to play THREE of the four bottom feeders, while the Griz got to play ONE.