Mike Mussina Elected to HOF

[JoltinJoe]

Actually, results announced tomorrow but I just wanted to piss Andy off for at least a moment.

Who's in, you think?
Candidate
MLB seasons
Yrs on BBWAA ballot
Moises Alou
1990, 1992-98,
2000-08
1st
Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 4th
Armando Benitez
1994-2008 1st
Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 2nd
Sean Casey 1997-2008 1st
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 2nd
Ray Durham 1995-2008 1st
Eric Gagne 1999-2008 1st
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Luis Gonzalez 1990-2008 1st
Jacque Jones 1999-2008 1st
Todd Jones 1993-2008 1st
Jeff Kent 1992-2008 1st
Paul Lo Duca 1998-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Edgar Martinez 1987-2004 5th
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Mark McGwire 1986-2001 8th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Mike Mussina 1991-2008 1st
Hideo Nomo 1995-2005, 2008 1st
Rafael Palmeiro 1986-2005 4th
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 2nd
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Kenny Rogers 1989-2008 1st
Curt Schilling 1988-2007 2nd
Richie Sexson 1997-2008 1st
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
J.T. Snow 1992-2006, 2008 1st
Sammy Sosa 1988-2005, 2007 2nd
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st
Mike Timlin 1991-2008 1st
Alan Trammell 1977-1996 13st
Larry Walker 1989-2005 4th

[JoltinJoe]

Thomas, Biggio and Maddux should be no brainers.

Among pitchers, Glavine, Mussina, and Morris are close calls. Glavine and Mussina probably make it eventually, but not this year (first year for both). Morris is in his last year of eligibility and came very close to the required 75% of the vote last year. I think he makes it, finally. Even with 300 wins, Glavine probably waits a year. Mussina gets in further down the road.

Seems many people suspect Piazza and Bagwell of PED use, although nothing clear has ever developed implicating them. I think they miss again this year.

So my call is four: Thomas, Biggio, Maddux, and Morris (barely).

[AZGrizFan]

If I had a ballot and could only vote for 10 (as is the rule):

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 2nd
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 2nd
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

Of these, I REALLY hope Frank Thomas & Biggio make it in....I'm almost positive Glavine/Maddux will go in. And I hope Morris gets in in his final year of eligibility.

[93henfan]

I hope Curt Schilling gets in because he's broke and it will give him one more thing to auction off.

Plus it gives him one more chance to be the center of attention.

Oh sorry, didn't mean to spill that Haterade.

[Gil Dobie]

I would go with these 9, Mussina down the line, but not first try.

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

[dbackjon]

[quote="JoltinJoe"]Actually, results announced tomorrow but I just wanted to piss Andy off for at least a moment.
My 10

Candidate
MLB seasons
Yrs on BBWAA ballot
Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 4th
Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Luis Gonzalez 1990-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 2nd
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Sammy Sosa 1988-2005, 2007 2nd
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

[tribe_pride]

I would go with these 9, Mussina down the line, but not first try.

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

So what is Mussina going to be doing in the next 12, 24, or 36 months to earn your vote?

[dbackjon]

I would go with these 9, Mussina down the line, but not first try.

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

So what is Mussina going to be doing in the next 12, 24, or 36 months to earn your vote?

Raking his leaves

[SuperHornet]

Maybe next year for Mattingly. I have a hard time voting for Yankees not named Ruth or Coleman. I'll never vote for a jerk like Bonds. I won't vote for a guy who's best known as a DH. (There's two of them here.) I can't vote for a guy who wore pants so thin you could see his freaking rear. (Who wants to see THAT?!? Ugh!) If the limit is 10, I have to wait awhile to vote for my Red. Walker had a good stick, but he has to wait a bit, too....

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Mark McGwire 1986-2001 8th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Curt Schilling 1988-2007 2nd
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Alan Trammell 1977-1996 13st

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe next year for Mattingly. I have a hard time voting for Yankees not named Ruth or Coleman. I'll never vote for a jerk like Bonds. I won't vote for a guy who's best known as a DH. (There's two of them here.) I can't vote for a guy who wore pants so thin you could see his freaking rear. (Who wants to see THAT?!? Ugh!) If the limit is 10, I have to wait awhile to vote for my Red. Walker had a good stick, but he has to wait a bit, too....

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Mark McGwire 1986-2001 8th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Curt Schilling 1988-2007 2nd
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Alan Trammell 1977-1996 13st

If Larry Walker ever sniffs the inside of the Hall of Fame without buying a ticket I will walk naked down Broadway into Times Square.

[Seahawks08]

If I had a ballot and could only vote for 10 (as is the rule):

That's one fucking dumb rule. Why is there a limit of 10 if there are 11 or more players who are HoFamers? It needs to be done away with.

[Gil Dobie]

So what is Mussina going to be doing in the next 12, 24, or 36 months to earn your vote?

Raking his leaves

That would do it.

Mussina already has my vote, just not this year. You have to give him credit for pitching in the American League and pitching to the DH, which the National League pitchers did not.

Take a look at Jack Morris, he pitched eight or more innings in AL games more times than any pitcher in the history of the DH (248), that's 52 percent of his career starts. Because he pitched so long into games, his WAR, ERA etc were affected. Morris had more wins than any pitcher that started pitching between Blyleven in 1970 and Clemens in 1984.

By then Morris owned a reputation as one of the best, if not baddest, dudes in the game. He was so stubbornly competitive that once in 1982 Tigers manager Sparky Anderson started walking to the mound to remove Morris on what would have been his second visit that inning. Morris ran over and stopped Anderson before he could cross the third-base line.

"Get the hell out of here," he told Anderson. "What you've got warming up is no better than what I've got right now."

"You're nuts," Anderson said.

The manager turned around and walked back to the dugout.

Tom Verducci

[andy7171]

I don't know if Moose is a HOFer. He got into the Orioles HOF last summer. Meh. Don't care either way. I just hope he's enjoying all his WS rings.

I would like to see Big Hurt get in on the first ballot. Maddox and Glavine are no-brainers. Lee Smith was awesome, but again not sure if he'll get in either.

[tribe_pride]

Raking his leaves

That would do it.

Mussina already has my vote, just not this year. You have to give him credit for pitching in the American League and pitching to the DH, which the National League pitchers did not.

Ok so my real question is why, if you have space on your ballot, would you not include a player in 1 year but you are willing to do it in later years? It makes no sense to me. Either a player is a hall of famer or they are not.

[Gil Dobie]

That would do it.

Mussina already has my vote, just not this year. You have to give him credit for pitching in the American League and pitching to the DH, which the National League pitchers did not.

Ok so my real question is why, if you have space on your ballot, would you not include a player in 1 year but you are willing to do it in later years? It makes no sense to me. Either a player is a hall of famer or they are not.

It is black and white if they are HOF worthy. I like to see the really great Hall of Fame players get in their first try, like Maddux, Glavine and Thomas. Other Hall of Fame quality players can wait a year or more. Just a personal opinion.

[JoltinJoe]

Ok so my real question is why, if you have space on your ballot, would you not include a player in 1 year but you are willing to do it in later years? It makes no sense to me. Either a player is a hall of famer or they are not.

It is black and white if they are HOF worthy. I like to see the really great Hall of Fame players get in their first try, like Maddux, Glavine and Thomas. Other Hall of Fame quality players can wait a year or more. Just a personal opinion.

Of course, if all voters took this position, these "other Hall of Fame quality players" wouldn't even receive the 5% of votes required to appear on the ballot the next year.

[JoltinJoe]

I thought this would be a thread in which we predicted the outcome of the voting, but since people of posted their ballots, here's mine in alphabetical order.

I picked 10, which is the first time I ever would have actually maxed out if I was a real voter. Bonds and Clemens have to wait until guys who (likely) played it clean get my vote. I would have put Bonds and Clemens on the ballot if I had room.

Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 4th
Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Don Mattingly 1982-1995 14th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Mike Mussina 1991-2008 1st
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 2nd
Tim Raines 1979-2002 7th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

[JoltinJoe]

Official Results:

3 elected:

Maddux; Glavine; Thomas.

Biggio got 74.8%.

Piazza, 62%; Morris 61.5%.

Bagwell about 54%.

Rafael Palmiero gets less than 5% and he's off the ballot.

[dbackjon]

Official Results:

3 elected:

Maddux; Glavine; Thomas.

Biggio got 74.8%.

Piazza, 62%; Morris 61.5%.

Bagwell about 54%.

Rafael Palmiero gets less than 5% and he's off the ballot.

I wonder if writers were allowed to vote for more than 10 if Biggio would have made it

[JoltinJoe]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

[dbackjon]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

Neither belong in the HOF

[JoltinJoe]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

Neither belong in the HOF

Only 19 writers voted for Williams. Mattingly got 75 votes.

This proves my point. If they played for any other team, they'd be in. Both have HOF monitor scores over 130, i.e., "Hall of Fame lock."

Mattingly's numbers are better than Kirby Puckett's, and Puckett went in on the first ballot.

[andy7171]

Sorry Moose.

[Ivytalk]

Official Results:

3 elected:

Maddux; Glavine; Thomas.

Biggio got 74.8%.

Piazza, 62%; Morris 61.5%.

Bagwell about 54%.

Rafael Palmiero gets less than 5% and he's off the ballot.

All winners are deserving.

Biggio may have lost points for playing with a dirty helmet.

[AZGrizFan]

Official Results:

3 elected:

Maddux; Glavine; Thomas.

Biggio got 74.8%.

Piazza, 62%; Morris 61.5%.

Bagwell about 54%.

Rafael Palmiero gets less than 5% and he's off the ballot.

Thrilled for Frank Thomas....sad for Jack Morris. He was an animal for 13+ years on the mound. Only ONCE between 1979 and 1992 did he win FEWER than 14 games. This is comparable to Maddux's 17-year stretch of not winning fewer than 15 games. AVERAGED 7 1/3 innings per start (Maddux averaged 6 2/3) in the American League....career 3.90 ERA...in the AMERICAN League....dude should have gotten in.