Mike Mussina Elected to HOF

[tribe_pride]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

136 HOF eligible players are at 130 or higher taking out steroid people and Pete Rose. Of those, 19 people have not gotten in so it's about an 86% chance above 130. Of the 19, 7 were on this year's ballot and 6 had scores that were higher than either of those 2 Yankees. Albert Belle never even made it out of his second year a bunch of years ago.

The list of above 130 (no steroids):
Piazza - 207
Schilling - 171
Biggio - 169
Bagwell - 150
Larry Walker - 148
Albert Belle - 135
Lee Smith 135
Mattingly - 134
Williams - 134
Martinez - 132
Steve Garvey - 130
Jim Katt - 130

Jim McCormick - 194 (1880s)
Bob Caruthers - 170 (1890s)
Tony Mullane - 169 (1890s)
Bobby Matthews - 162 (1880s)
Tommy Bond - 142 (1880s)
Will White - 141 (1880s)
Charlie Buffinton - 130 (1880s)

[AZGrizFan]

If I had a ballot and could only vote for 10 (as is the rule):

Craig Biggio 1988-2007 2nd
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 2nd
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 2nd
Tom Glavine 1987-2008 1st
Greg Maddux 1986-2008 1st
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 5th
Jack Morris 1977-1994 15th
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 2nd
Lee Smith 1980-1997 12th
Frank Thomas 1990-2008 1st

Of these, I REALLY hope Frank Thomas & Biggio make it in....I'm almost positive Glavine/Maddux will go in. And I hope Morris gets in in his final year of eligibility.

Well, if Biggio had gotten 6 more votes I'd have been 4/4 (not counting the sympathy vote for Morris).

[dbackjon]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

136 HOF eligible players are at 130 or higher taking out steroid people and Pete Rose. Of those, 19 people have not gotten in. Of the 19, 7 were on this year's ballot and 6 had scores that were higher than either of those 2 Yankees. Albert Belle never even made it out of his second year a bunch of years ago.

The list of above 130 (no steroids):
Piazza - 207
Schilling - 171
Biggio - 169
Bagwell - 150
Larry Walker - 148
Albert Belle - 135
Lee Smith 135
Mattingly - 134
Williams - 134
Martinez - 132
Steve Garvey - 130
Jim Katt - 130

Jim McCormick - 194 (1880s)
Bob Caruthers - 170 (1890s)
Tony Mullane - 169 (1890s)
Bobby Matthews - 162 (1880s)
Tommy Bond - 142 (1880s)
Will White - 141 (1880s)
Charlie Buffinton - 130 (1880s)

never confuse a lawyer with facts

[AZGrizFan]

136 HOF eligible players are at 130 or higher taking out steroid people and Pete Rose. Of those, 19 people have not gotten in. Of the 19, 7 were on this year's ballot and 6 had scores that were higher than either of those 2 Yankees. Albert Belle never even made it out of his second year a bunch of years ago.

The list of above 130 (no steroids):
Piazza - 207
Schilling - 171
Biggio - 169
Bagwell - 150
Larry Walker - 148
Albert Belle - 135
Lee Smith 135
Mattingly - 134
Williams - 134
Martinez - 132
Steve Garvey - 130
Jim Katt - 130

Jim McCormick - 194 (1880s)
Bob Caruthers - 170 (1890s)
Tony Mullane - 169 (1890s)
Bobby Matthews - 162 (1880s)
Tommy Bond - 142 (1880s)
Will White - 141 (1880s)
Charlie Buffinton - 130 (1880s)

never confuse a lawyer with facts

It's an anti-Yankee conspiracy, dammit!!!

[Ivytalk]

never confuse a lawyer with facts

It's an anti-Yankee conspiracy, dammit!!!

Where's spandos?

[AZGrizFan]

It's an anti-Yankee conspiracy, dammit!!!

Where's spandos?

Joltin's alter ego.

[andy7171]

Wait until over-rated Jeter misses on his first ballot.

[Grizalltheway]

How is a guy with 3,300 hits and a .312 career average overrated?

[AZGrizFan]

How is a guy with 3,300 hits and a .312 career average overrated?

Because he got half those hits in that bandbox called Yankmee Stadium. Just like Coors Field #'s should be altered DOWNWARD, so should anybody who gets to play in Yankmee or Red Sux Stadiums...

[JoltinJoe]

Anti-Yankee bias continues. There are two players eligible for the Hall of Fame with Hall of Fame monitor scores greater than 130 (without steroid taint) who are not in the HOF: Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams.

HOF Monitor score greater than 100 = "likely" Hall of Famer, according to Bill James.
HOF Monitor score greater than 130 = Hall of Fame "lock."

I guess James is going to have to add "lock, unless you are a Yankee."

For Mattingly, doesn't really matter, though, because he has achieved the greatest honor in American sports: his number has been retired by the New York Yankees.

136 HOF eligible players are at 130 or higher taking out steroid people and Pete Rose. Of those, 19 people have not gotten in so it's about an 86% chance above 130. Of the 19, 7 were on this year's ballot and 6 had scores that were higher than either of those 2 Yankees. Albert Belle never even made it out of his second year a bunch of years ago.

The list of above 130 (no steroids):
Piazza - 207
Schilling - 171
Biggio - 169
Bagwell - 150
Larry Walker - 148
Albert Belle - 135
Lee Smith 135
Mattingly - 134
Williams - 134
Martinez - 132
Steve Garvey - 130
Jim Katt - 130

Jim McCormick - 194 (1880s)
Bob Caruthers - 170 (1890s)
Tony Mullane - 169 (1890s)
Bobby Matthews - 162 (1880s)
Tommy Bond - 142 (1880s)
Will White - 141 (1880s)
Charlie Buffinton - 130 (1880s)

First, I was referring to everyday players, not pitchers. So strike Lee Smith and Curt Schilling (although many people suspect Schilling.

Second, I was referring to players in the modern era.

Third, every everday player above Mattingly/Williams that you cited has been connected to steroids, perhaps without concrete proof, with the exception of Biggio. For example, I live around New York and there were always rumors about Piazza and steroids. Everyone knows Albert Belle used steroids, people have suspected Bagwell and Walker.

Fourth, you are correct about Edgar Martinez, who missed for the first time today, and Biggio, who is no doubt going to make it next year.

Fifth, I said everyone with a score GREATER than 130. Garvey's score is not GREATER than 130. Kaat score is not GREATER than 130. James' criteria is GREATER than 130 = lock.

[dbackjon]

136 HOF eligible players are at 130 or higher taking out steroid people and Pete Rose. Of those, 19 people have not gotten in so it's about an 86% chance above 130. Of the 19, 7 were on this year's ballot and 6 had scores that were higher than either of those 2 Yankees. Albert Belle never even made it out of his second year a bunch of years ago.

The list of above 130 (no steroids):
Piazza - 207
Schilling - 171
Biggio - 169
Bagwell - 150
Larry Walker - 148
Albert Belle - 135
Lee Smith 135
Mattingly - 134
Williams - 134
Martinez - 132
Steve Garvey - 130
Jim Katt - 130

Jim McCormick - 194 (1880s)
Bob Caruthers - 170 (1890s)
Tony Mullane - 169 (1890s)
Bobby Matthews - 162 (1880s)
Tommy Bond - 142 (1880s)
Will White - 141 (1880s)
Charlie Buffinton - 130 (1880s)

First, I was referring to everyday players, not pitchers. So strike Lee Smith and Curt Schilling (although many people suspect Schilling.

Second, I was referring to players in the modern era.

Third, every everday player above Mattingly/Williams that you cited has been connected to steroids, perhaps without concrete proof, with the exception of Biggio. For example, I live around New York and there were always rumors about Piazza and steroids. Everyone knows Albert Belle used steroids, people have suspected Bagwell and Walker.

Fourth, you are correct about Edgar Martinez, who missed for the first time today, and Biggio, who is no doubt going to make it next year.

Fifth, I said everyone with a score GREATER than 130. Garvey's score is not GREATER than 130. Kaat score is not GREATER than 130. James' criteria is GREATER than 130 = lock.

BBWWA to JJ and James:

[AZGrizFan]

BBWWA to JJ and James:

[DSUrocks07]

Dan LeBatard went all Edward Snowden on the BBWAA

http://deadspin.com/revealed-the-hall-o ... 1496558341

I feel like my vote has gotten pretty worthless in the avalanche of sanctimony that has swallowed it.

I have no earthly idea if Jeff Bagwell or Frank Thomas did or didn't use steroids.

I think I understand why the steroid guys were the steroid guys in this competition-aholic culture.

I hate all the moralizing we do in sports in general, but I especially hate the hypocrisy in this: Many of the gatekeeper voters denying Barry Bonds Hall Of Fame entry would have they themselves taken a magical, healing, not-tested-for-in-their-workplace elixir if it made them better at their jobs, especially if lesser talents were getting the glory and money. Lord knows I'd take the elixir for our ESPN2 TV show if I could.

I don't think I'm any more qualified to determine who is Hall of Fame-worthy than a fan who cares about and really knows baseball. In fact, many people analyzing baseball with advanced metrics outside of mainstream media are doing a better job than mainstream media, and have taught us some things in recent years when we were behind. In other words, just because we went to journalism school and covered a few games, just because accepted outlets gave us their platform and power, I don't think we should have the pulpit to ourselves in 2014 that way we did in 1936.

Baseball is always reticent to change, but our flawed voting process needs remodeling in a new media world. Besides, every year the power is abused the way I'm going to be alleged to abuse it here. There's never been a unanimous first-ballot guy? Seriously? If Ruth and Mays and Schmidt aren't that, then what is? This year, someone is going to leave one of the five best pitchers ever off the ballot. Suck it, Greg Maddux.

I've become a more and more lenient voter over the years, often allowing the max 10 guys in a year, and I wanted to put in more this year. I happen to agree with most of the reader selections. I was afraid you guys were going to have me voting for Jacque Jones and no one else. I was kind of surprised this particular snark-land respected the process. I found it impossible to limit it this year to 10, but 10 was all that was allowed, so thanks for the help. But why limit it to 10 in a year that has more than 10 worthy candidates, by the way? How dumb is that?

And my final reason: I always like a little anarchy inside the cathedral we've made of sports.

I'm not sure what kind of trouble this is going to bring me. I imagine I'll probably have my vote stripped. But I don't want to be a part of the present climate without reform anyway. Given that climate, doing THIS has more impact than my next 20 years of votes as sanctimony bars the HOF door on the steroid guys. Because, in a climate without reform, my next 20 years of votes will be counted but not actually heard. At least this gets it heard, for better or for worse.

Fan vote results: Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Mike Piazza, Craig Biggio, Edgar Martínez, Jeff Bagwell, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, and Curt Schilling

[bonarae]

The only hope for Morris is going to be the same as the late Ron Santo: get elected to the Hall via the Veteran's Committee in his first year eligible.

I'm afraid Biggio may have the same fate too...

I'm not sure if those dropped off the ballot in the media voting are eligible again once Veteran's Committee status has reached for those players.

[SuperHornet]

I wouldn't trust ANYTHING Dan the Bastard says....

[JoltinJoe]

James on the MLB network: "the historically low support" for Mattingly "is difficult to understand." Also, he was considered the game's best player "for an extended period of time in the 1980s."

Thinks Mattingly's stats don't stand out today as they did during his own era due to "stat inflation of the 1990s." Says Mattingly came to the ballot at a time when every other team had a guy who put up numbers like Mattingly did in the 1980s. "But the 1980s was a period of far less offense than the 1990s."

[Gil Dobie]

James on the MLB network: "the historically low support" for Mattingly "is difficult to understand." Also, he was considered the game's best player "for an extended period of time in the 1980s."

Thinks Mattingly's stats don't stand out today as they did during his own era due to "stat inflation of the 1990s." Says Mattingly came to the ballot at a time when every other team had a guy who put up numbers like Mattingly did in the 1980s. "But the 1980s was a period of far less offense than the 1990s."

1990's = Steroid era

[andy7171]

How is a guy with 3,300 hits and a .312 career average overrated?

Put him in a normal line up and he's just an average slappy.

[CAA Flagship]

Wait until over-rated Jeter misses on his first ballot.

[JoltinJoe]

Wait until over-rated Jeter misses on his first ballot.

Discussion on MLB Network last night about whether Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter will become the first players elected with 100%.

Costas said Jeter will come close to 100% because he was the biggest star of his era who played it clean, but there may be a handful of voters who say Jeter was not the SS of all time. However, Costas said Rivera is likely to be unanimous. The best ever at what he did, not even a hint of scandal, and a great face for baseball during a troubled era.

So take THAT, you bird brain.

[dbackjon]

Discussion on MLB Network last night about whether Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter will become the first players elected with 100%.

Costas said Jeter will come close to 100% because he was the biggest star of his era who played it clean, but there may be a handful of voters who say Jeter was not the SS of all time. However, Costas said Rivera is likely to be unanimous. The best ever at what he did, not even a hint of scandal, and a great face for baseball during a troubled era.

So take THAT, you bird brain.

That would fly in the face of your "HOF is biased against Yankees" screed.



Rivera best of all time?

[tribe_pride]

Discussion on MLB Network last night about whether Mariano Rivera or Derek Jeter will become the first players elected with 100%.

Costas said Jeter will come close to 100% because he was the biggest star of his era who played it clean, but there may be a handful of voters who say Jeter was not the SS of all time. However, Costas said Rivera is likely to be unanimous. The best ever at what he did, not even a hint of scandal, and a great face for baseball during a troubled era.

So take THAT, you bird brain.

I have to disagree with Costas on Rivera. While he may be deserving of unanimous induction, there will always be some (and it only takes 1) to prevent it. We'll find out in 5 years.

As for Jeter, I would be a little surprised if he got in at a higher percentage than Maddux but it could be close.

[AZGrizFan]

My takeaway from this: Even WITH the steroid induced players eliminated from consideration, we STILL saw some GREAT baseball players come through in the '90's and early 2000's.

[CAA Flagship]

Purple. Teal.
You are rooting for the right team Jon.

[AZGrizFan]

Purple. Teal.
You are rooting for the right team Jon.

It's gone now. Sedona Red is in.