The Super Bowl (what we learned)

[Seahawks08]

Arizona was the 2nd best D in the league this year. Carolina #3. San Fran wasn't even top 10.

[Chizzang]

[Chizzang]

[Grizalltheway]

Arizona was the 2nd best D in the league this year. Carolina #3. San Fran wasn't even top 10.

Carolina was 2nd in total defense, Arizona was 6th.

[Seahawks08]

Carolina was 2nd in total defense, Arizona was 6th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

[Seahawks08]

[Grizalltheway]

Carolina was 2nd in total defense, Arizona was 6th.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Grizalltheway]

This one hurts, but it is definitely funny as shit.

[Seahawks08]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense

That's only taking into account yardage. Football outsiders DVOA takes into account everything from turnovers to strength of schedule to evaluating every play during the game.

[rkwittem]

I don't buy Arizona at all. I can't do it...not with Carson Palmer at QB. They beat Seattle in Seattle but that was a fluke. 4 turnovers and they still win? Not exactly a ringing endorsement to me.

Beat Indy 40-11.
Almost beat the 49'ers (last second loss).
Beat Carolina



Top 3 Defense in the League.

Blown out by Saints and Chargers...Carson Palmer is their QB. They would have won a playoff game this year, if they made it. Get a better QB and then I'm all in, until then...nope. They would have played someone like Philly or GB on the road, had Palmer make a few dumb errors (which he can do against any defense, regardless of how good or bad they may be) and given up a few scores against PHI or GB's offenses and been stuck behind the 8-ball. I just have a hard time buying the "the 3rd best team in the league had Carson Palmer at QB" argument.

[dbackjon]

Beat Indy 40-11.
Almost beat the 49'ers (last second loss).
Beat Carolina



Top 3 Defense in the League.

Blown out by Saints and Chargers...Carson Palmer is their QB. They would have won a playoff game this year, if they made it. Get a better QB and then I'm all in, until then...nope. They would have played someone like Philly or GB on the road, had Palmer make a few dumb errors (which he can do against any defense, regardless of how good or bad they may be) and given up a few scores against PHI or GB's offenses and been stuck behind the 8-ball. I just have a hard time buying the "the 3rd best team in the league had Carson Palmer at QB" argument.

Umm - the Cardinals didn't play the Chargers.
Saints was week three - new offense, new defense, new QB, missing D Wash due to 4 game suspension.

Teams were completely different by the end of the year.

Cardinals finished 7-2, with the losses both by three points to Phi (on the road, playing 11 on 16), and SF on a last second FG.

In that stretch, they obliterated Indy, and gave Seattle their only home loss in two years.

So yes, Cards are a top 5 team, easy.

[rkwittem]

Umm - the Cardinals didn't play the Chargers.
Saints was week three - new offense, new defense, new QB, missing D Wash due to 4 game suspension.

Teams were completely different by the end of the year.

Cardinals finished 7-2, with the losses both by three points to Phi (on the road, playing 11 on 16), and SF on a last second FG.

In that stretch, they obliterated Indy, and gave Seattle their only home loss in two years.

So yes, Cards are a top 5 team, easy.

Sorry, I just realized after reading your post that I was reading their preseason schedule. (Which is included on their official site's schedule).

You can play the whole "new coach, new scheme" BS but that didn't hurt Philly too much this year. AZ had good players and they got whipped by New Orleans. Indy is garbage, as NE proved in January. I still have a hard time believing they would win a road playoff game. Are they better than Green Bay? Yeah, but if they had played at GB or at Philly in the playoffs (if they had made it, they would have), I would have picked them to lose. Their QB is a bad handicap to have. I know they won in Seattle (congrats) and they have a top-5 team resume in terms of wins. I just don't trust the QB enough to say they were as good as they're being made out to be. Lots of revisionist history, I think.

[dbackjon]

Umm - the Cardinals didn't play the Chargers.
Saints was week three - new offense, new defense, new QB, missing D Wash due to 4 game suspension.

Teams were completely different by the end of the year.

Cardinals finished 7-2, with the losses both by three points to Phi (on the road, playing 11 on 16), and SF on a last second FG.

In that stretch, they obliterated Indy, and gave Seattle their only home loss in two years.

So yes, Cards are a top 5 team, easy.

Sorry, I just realized after reading your post that I was reading their preseason schedule. (Which is included on their official site's schedule).

You can play the whole "new coach, new scheme" BS but that didn't hurt Philly too much this year. AZ had good players and they got whipped by New Orleans. Indy is garbage, as NE proved in January. I still have a hard time believing they would win a road playoff game. Are they better than Green Bay? Yeah, but if they had played at GB or at Philly in the playoffs (if they had made it, they would have), I would have picked them to lose. Their QB is a bad handicap to have. I know they won in Seattle (congrats) and they have a top-5 team resume in terms of wins. I just don't trust the QB enough to say they were as good as they're being made out to be. Lots of revisionist history, I think.

Your opinion, of course. Note - Arizona ended up with a far better record than Philly, likely would have won 12-13 games with Philly's schedule. Philly would have won 6-7 at best.

[Seahawks08]

ok let's get this out of the way, yes the cards beat seattle in seattle. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Seattle destroyed the Cards at the Cards. Funny how we forget that.

Secondly, rk, Indy was not garbage. Any team that makes the playoffs, let alone wins a game, is not garbage.

[Chizzang]

This one hurts, but it is definitely funny as shit.

How can you be a Bronco fan..? (ugh)
Let's not build a team - lets just go buy a Superbowl
(the whole thing is too Yankees for my taste)

[rkwittem]

ok let's get this out of the way, yes the cards beat seattle in seattle. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Seattle destroyed the Cards at the Cards. Funny how we forget that.

Secondly, rk, Indy was not garbage. Any team that makes the playoffs, let alone wins a game, is not garbage.

They got out-classed for 6 of 8 playoff quarters. They won the AFC South. I doubt they would have won 5 games in the NFC. I don't think they were that much better than any team that missed the playoffs in the AFC like Pitt or Miami. Just because they beat Denver and Seattle means they were above average. Dallas should have beaten Denver. Tampa should have beaten Seattle. The better team does not always win and the best teams do not always make the playoffs. Let's not overstate their accomplishments.

[dbackjon]

ok let's get this out of the way, yes the cards beat seattle in seattle. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Seattle destroyed the Cards at the Cards. Funny how we forget that.

Secondly, rk, Indy was not garbage. Any team that makes the playoffs, let alone wins a game, is not garbage.

Destroyed? 12 points win is destroyed now?

[rkwittem]

Your opinion, of course. Note - Arizona ended up with a far better record than Philly, likely would have won 12-13 games with Philly's schedule. Philly would have won 6-7 at best.

That's also completely impossible to prove. We know that Philly beat AZ and would have been favored at home against AZ in the playoffs. You'd have to ask someone from Vegas on that, but I think that's probably a fair estimate.

[Seahawks08]

Destroyed? 12 points win is destroyed now?

The final score did not indicate how the game went. It was close at half time, but Seattle pulled away in the 3rd quarter. Arizona's last TD was in garbage time. I watched all the hawks games this year and I remember the close ones. @Zona was not one of them.

[Seahawks08]

They got out-classed for 6 of 8 playoff quarters. They won the AFC South. I doubt they would have won 5 games in the NFC. I don't think they were that much better than any team that missed the playoffs in the AFC like Pitt or Miami. Just because they beat Denver and Seattle means they were above average. Dallas should have beaten Denver. Tampa should have beaten Seattle. The better team does not always win and the best teams do not always make the playoffs. Let's not overstate their accomplishments.

Again, none of what you said makes the Colts a garbage team. A garbage team is Jax or Oakland.

[Grizalltheway]

This one hurts, but it is definitely funny as shit.

How can you be a Bronco fan..? (ugh)
Let's not build a team - lets just go buy a Superbowl
(the whole thing is too Yankees for my taste)

Not a Broncos fan at all. Became an Indy fan when they drafted Peyton way back in the 90's...just wanted to see him win another ring so knuckleheads like you would stop questioning his greatness.

[Seahawks08]

Not a Broncos fan at all. Became an Indy fan when they drafted Peyton way back in the 90's...just wanted to see him win another ring so knuckleheads like you would stop questioning his greatness.

The man needs a defense. It's almost comical that he needs to win everything himself every year.

[rkwittem]

They got out-classed for 6 of 8 playoff quarters. They won the AFC South. I doubt they would have won 5 games in the NFC. I don't think they were that much better than any team that missed the playoffs in the AFC like Pitt or Miami. Just because they beat Denver and Seattle means they were above average. Dallas should have beaten Denver. Tampa should have beaten Seattle. The better team does not always win and the best teams do not always make the playoffs. Let's not overstate their accomplishments.

Again, none of what you said makes the Colts a garbage team. A garbage team is Jax or Oakland.

Indy can't run, they can't pass block, their defensive personnel is average with few exceptions. They made the playoffs because their division was easily the worst in the league. Quit overselling their "accomplishments" because they beat Seattle. (We both know that's at least part of the reason why you keep pumping their tires.) Indy is Andy Luck and the 7 Dwarves. That's who they are. A banged-up New England team easily out-played them. KC owned them for 2 quarters and would have likely won had they not lost most of their best players during the game. The cut-off between crap and average is not nearly as great as you make it sound.

[kalm]

Again, none of what you said makes the Colts a garbage team. A garbage team is Jax or Oakland.

Indy can't run, they can't pass block, their defensive personnel is average with few exceptions. They made the playoffs because their division was easily the worst in the league. Quit overselling their "accomplishments" because they beat Seattle. (We both know that's at least part of the reason why you keep pumping their tires.) Indy is Andy Luck and the 7 Dwarves. That's who they are. A banged-up New England team easily out-played them. KC owned them for 2 quarters and would have likely won had they not lost most of their best players during the game. The cut-off between crap and average is not nearly as great as you make it sound.

They pounded the niners, beat the hawks, Broncos, and Chiefs twice. Yep, pure garbage.

[AZGrizFan]

Your opinion, of course. Note - Arizona ended up with a far better record than Philly, likely would have won 12-13 games with Philly's schedule. Philly would have won 6-7 at best.

That's also completely impossible to prove. We know that Philly beat AZ and would have been favored at home against AZ in the playoffs. You'd have to ask someone from Vegas on that, but I think that's probably a fair estimate.

And Vegas favored Denver in the Super Bowl.