US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russia

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US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russia

Post by Cap'n Cat »

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukrain ... sia-n55521" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dwindling options. Conk bullshit on "weakness" just complicates and is nothing but politics. He, we, can't do much of anything to the Russians and Putin. Conks would be screaming "recklessness" if he committed troops or supplied weapons to Ukraine, claiming he's setting us up for "another Vietnam". Picturing that cunt Sarah Palin riding that train......

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Tougher sanctions, economic pressure and even limited military assistance are among the options left in President Barack Obama’s toolbox. Here's a guide to the criticism swirling around Obama, and what his next steps could include:

What’s the criticism of Obama's response?

Tennessee Sen. Bob Corker, the senior Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said the limited financial sanctions and visa bans which Obama announced Monday “won't do enough to modify Russian behavior. So far, the administration’s calibrated actions have failed to affect Vladimir Putin’s decisions.” Sen. John McCain blasted the sanctions, saying, “I don’t know how it could have been weaker, besides doing nothing.”

Stephen Blank, senior fellow for Russia at the American Foreign Policy Council and a former professor of National Security Studies at the Army War College, said that Putin “counted on the weakness, irresolution and confusion of NATO and Obama and, sad to say, he was right.”


But Michael McFaul, an NBC News analyst who served as Obama’s ambassador to Moscow until last month, said Putin acted in Crimea not in response to Obama’s action or inaction in Syria or elsewhere, but in reaction to the failure of Putin’s attempted alliance with Ukraine under now-ousted President Viktor Yanukovich.

Putin calculated that there would not be an American military response to his invasion of Crimea, and McFaul said there’s a history of Russian leaders intervening in places in Eastern Europe and along the Russian periphery and American presidents being unable or unwilling to stop them.

“President Bush invaded Iraq in 2003 and that did not stop President Putin from invading Georgia in 2008,” McFaul noted.

Does Obama have military options?

If Putin ordered Russian troops further into eastern Ukraine, Sen. Chris Murphy, D-Conn., said Sunday “I don't think there's anything that we can do militarily” to block that. What’s needed is “a longer-term effort to build up the Ukrainian military,” he said.

And Corker agreed, saying Monday that “the United States should explore direct security assistance to the Government of Ukraine.”


Ukraine is not a NATO member, but Poland and the Baltic States are. Therefore the United States is obligated by the NATO treaty to defend them from any attack. Vice President Joe Biden visits Poland and Lithuania this week, where he will try to reassure the leaders of those NATO allies, as well as Estonia and Latvia.

Blank said a large joint US-NATO military exercise in the Baltic states and Poland would serve a useful purpose at this point. A NATO exercise called “Steadfast Jazz” last fall involving 6,000 troops was, he said, small compared to Russian exercises involving 100,000 troops. Blank also said he’d station permanent NATO ground forces in the Baltic states and Poland.

What additional sanctions could Obama and Congress impose?

Jeffrey Schott, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, a Washington think tank, said Obama administration and European Union officials “are doing contingency planning in case Russia escalates the crisis by invading Eastern Ukraine. Putin cannot discount the possibility that tough financial sanctions will be applied that disrupt trade and investment with Russian companies.”

He said concern about such measures “already reportedly has led some projects to be pushed back; the big risk going forward is the collapse of Western investments to help upgrade Russian oil and gas production and distribution.”

Russia became a member of the World Trade Organization in 2012 and, as such, enjoys non-discriminatory treatment on tariffs and other trade barriers.

Schott has suggested that the U.S. and European governments consider invoking a provision of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade which provides exceptions for national security reasons from rights and obligations under the WTO.

He said this could “offer a more flexible means to impose (and subsequently withdraw) broad trade sanctions than comprehensive financial sanctions” of the kind that were imposed on Iran.


Are the countries of the European Union also pressuring Putin?

Yes, they have announced their own set of economic sanctions against 21 Russian and Ukrainian officials, but those sanctions are a long way from curtailing the $450 billion in annual trade with Russia. What economic steps can the United States take alone?

“We can put pressure on U.S. companies to stop investing in Russian energy projects and pass (economic sanctions) legislation similar to what we’ve done with Iran,” offered Blank.

What role does energy play in this strategic struggle?

Energy policy could be a strategic lever for the Obama administration. Blank suggested that the administration allow expedited exports of both U.S. oil and gas to Europe, noting that 80 percent of Russia’s revenues from energy sales come from oil, not natural gas.

But ending the ban on export of U.S. crude oil, which dates back to the 1970s, would require action by Congress.

Blank said that the administration ought to increase support for a pipeline from the Central Asian country of Turkmenistan across the Caspian Sea to Azerbaijan, which is on Russia’s southern border, in order to increase natural gas supplies to European nations. “If you want to economically strike at the Russians this is a way to do it,” he said.





And, again, if Russian and Venezuelan ships were circling offshore Puerto Rico, we would be doing MUCH more than Putin is doing. Invading countries left-and-right and bombing the shit out of everyone, the US has no standing telling Putin how to act.

We reap what we sow, ladies.


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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUMountaineer »

I don't disagree with the premise, Cappy. But, Obama did himself no favors trying to come out early and sound tough. His subsequent inaction led to him appearing to be weak and simply posturing. Anyone with a brain knows that there is little the US can do. I for one don't care if he takes Ukraine.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUG8 »

ASUMountaineer wrote:I don't disagree with the premise, Cappy. But, Obama did himself no favors trying to come out early and sound tough. His subsequent inaction led to him appearing to be weak and simply posturing. Anyone with a brain knows that there is little the US can do. I for one don't care if he takes Ukraine.
There really isn't a good option on Ukraine, just like Syria. But in both instances, Putin made us blink after our bloviating about some large response which was ignored and we backed down. If we choose to do nothing, don't waste everybody's time and raise everyone's blood pressure by drawing imaginary red lines that you have no intention of actually enforcing. :twocents:
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Chizzang »

What would be more fun that a land war with Russia..?
Answer: Nothing / Come on you pussies lets go!!!!

Both countries want it so bad they can taste it
the upside is too much to ponder - it fairly tantalizes the taste buds of our pentagon

I mean if you can't drum up recruiting numbers to fight the Russians we're dead inside as a country
Bush may come out of retirement for this - it's so good
this is what it's all about boys and girls

What are we waiting for ?
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUG8 »

Chizzang wrote:What would be more fun that a land war with Russia..?
Answer: Nothing / Come on you pussies lets go!!!!

Both countries want it so bad they can taste it
the upside is too much to ponder - it fairly tantalizes the taste buds of our pentagon

I mean if you can't drum up recruiting numbers to fight the Russians we're dead inside as a country
Bush may come out of retirement for this it's so good
this is what it's all about boys and girls

What are we waiting for ?
That's a Muslim wet dream to see the two "great Satan" superpowers spent and greatly diminished after punching each others' teeth in for several years.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by AZGrizFan »

Chizzang wrote:What would be more fun that a land war with Russia..?
Answer: Nothing / Come on you pussies lets go!!!!

Both countries want it so bad they can taste it
the upside is too much to ponder - it fairly tantalizes the taste buds of our pentagon

I mean if you can't drum up recruiting numbers to fight the Russians we're dead inside as a country
Bush may come out of retirement for this - it's so good
this is what it's all about boys and girls

What are we waiting for ?
So the last 13 years have just been practice? Spring training?
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Chizzang »

ASUG8 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:What would be more fun that a land war with Russia..?
Answer: Nothing / Come on you pussies lets go!!!!

Both countries want it so bad they can taste it
the upside is too much to ponder - it fairly tantalizes the taste buds of our pentagon

I mean if you can't drum up recruiting numbers to fight the Russians we're dead inside as a country
Bush may come out of retirement for this it's so good
this is what it's all about boys and girls

What are we waiting for ?
That's a Muslim wet dream to see the two "great Satan" superpowers spent and greatly diminished after punching each others' teeth in for several years.
Meh...
We'd be sharper and meaner than ever
and completely ready to stomp some Jihad ass into the dirt

Fight the Russians.... man just think about that for a second
I grew up in the Reagan anti-Russia evil empire era dude
this was our destiny - but the Liberal pussies fucked it up in the end

But now our children get an opportunity to hurl themselves at the great Russian mean grinder
This is giving me a boner / we gotta square up with these bastards and GO TO WAR..!!!!
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUMountaineer »

ASUG8 wrote:
ASUMountaineer wrote:I don't disagree with the premise, Cappy. But, Obama did himself no favors trying to come out early and sound tough. His subsequent inaction led to him appearing to be weak and simply posturing. Anyone with a brain knows that there is little the US can do. I for one don't care if he takes Ukraine.
There really isn't a good option on Ukraine, just like Syria. But in both instances, Putin made us blink after our bloviating about some large response which was ignored and we backed down. If we choose to do nothing, don't waste everybody's time and raise everyone's blood pressure by drawing imaginary red lines that you have no intention of actually enforcing. :twocents:
:nod:
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUG8 »

Chizzang wrote:
Meh...
We'd be sharper and meaner than ever
and completely ready to stomp some Jihad ass into the dirt

Fight the Russians.... man just think about that for a second
I grew up in the Reagan anti-Russia evil empire era dude
this was our destiny - but the Liberal pussies fucked it up in the end

But now our children get an opportunity to hurl themselves at the great Russian mean grinder
This is giving me a boner / we gotta square up with these bastards and GO TO WAR..!!!!
Now I don't know if you're just messing with me. :oops: After fighting unsophisticated third worlders for the past 12 years we don't seem to be terribly sharp or motivated to take it to the next level. We've had air superiority in every conflict since I've been alive, and we'd be (nearly) matched with a Russian conflict. We'd get about 300 French troops plus Britain, but that would be about it. In the meantime the Muslims would be taking jabs at both sides. Then somebody gets behind and starts lobbing missiles, then potentially nukes..... :ohno:

If we were to give the Russians a beatdown I'm not sure what the end game is - get them to retrench and relinquish territories, take over resources (we haven't demonstrated a great ability to do that so far). I don't see the benefit except to curb their territory grabs which is pretty hypocritical IMHO.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Ibanez »

Let's leave it alone.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by CID1990 »

Chizzang wrote:
ASUG8 wrote:
That's a Muslim wet dream to see the two "great Satan" superpowers spent and greatly diminished after punching each others' teeth in for several years.
Meh...
We'd be sharper and meaner than ever
and completely ready to stomp some Jihad ass into the dirt

Fight the Russians.... man just think about that for a second
I grew up in the Reagan anti-Russia evil empire era dude
this was our destiny - but the Liberal pussies **** it up in the end

But now our children get an opportunity to hurl themselves at the great Russian mean grinder
This is giving me a boner / we gotta square up with these bastards and GO TO WAR..!!!!
No we don't.

All we have to do is flood the EU market with our own natural gas products.

It will have the same effect as when we persuaded OPEC to bottom out oil prices in the 1980s. (Hey! an advantage to trading oil in dollars! Wow!)

Squeeze the oligarchs and they will dump Putin. You know this is true. :nod:
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by BDKJMU »

CID1990 wrote:
Chizzang wrote:
Meh...
We'd be sharper and meaner than ever
and completely ready to stomp some Jihad ass into the dirt

Fight the Russians.... man just think about that for a second
I grew up in the Reagan anti-Russia evil empire era dude
this was our destiny - but the Liberal pussies **** it up in the end

But now our children get an opportunity to hurl themselves at the great Russian mean grinder
This is giving me a boner / we gotta square up with these bastards and GO TO WAR..!!!!
No we don't.

All we have to do is flood the EU market with our own natural gas products.

It will have the same effect as when we persuaded OPEC to bottom out oil prices in the 1980s. (Hey! an advantage to trading oil in dollars! Wow!)

Squeeze the oligarchs and they will dump Putin. You know this is true. :nod:
Yep. Frack baby frack! :nod:

"Fracking is turning the US into a bigger oil producer than Saudi Arabia

.............America is poised to displace Saudi Arabia as the world’s top producer. With that could come a hobbling of Opec and unforeseen shifts in US foreign policy.

So rapid has been the change in its energy fortunes that even some experts, as well as policy-makers in Washington, are struggling to keep up. Nor are we just talking oil. So much natural gas is being released by the shale also that for now outlandish quantities of it are simply being burned off into the atmosphere.

Even predicting future oil output isn’t the precise science you’d expect. “We keep raising our forecasts, and we keep underestimating production,” Lejla Alic, an analyst with the International Energy Agency noted recently. Last year US production reached 7.4 million barrels a day, an increase over 2012 of 15.3 per cent. A jump that large hasn’t been seen since 1951. This year the US should produce 8.3 million barrels a day.

Take another indicator – the volumes of crude being moved by trains, often a mile long, from the shale fields to refineries and terminals. In all of 2008, train companies moved 9,500 wagons of the black stuff. Last year, 400,000 of them rumbled across America.

How long America’s shale boom will last is hard to forecast also. In Texas, which on its own is set to increase production to 4 million barrels a day this year, the drilling peak still hasn’t been reached, says Mr Gallegos. But, he suggests, “in the end it’s not the oil fields or the wells that will determine where all this goes. It’s the politicians around the world who set the price and make the markets.” Increasingly, the decisions that matter will rest with the US, as it adjusts to its new status as a glut producer.

“The United States is now poised to become an energy superpower,” write By Robert D. Blackwill and Meghan O’Sullivan, in the current issue of Foreign Affairs magazine.

The consequences are likely to be far-reaching, notably affording Washington a chance it hasn’t had since the energy crisis of the early 1970s to reassess its relationships with those countries, often ruled by unappetising despotic governments – Saudi Arabia included – on which America has had to depend for so long to feed its fossil fuel needs.

“Since 1971, when US oil production peaked, energy has been construed as a strategic liability for the country, with its ever-growing thirst for reasonably priced fossil fuels sometimes necessitating incongruous alliances and complex obligations abroad,” they write. “That logic has been upended, and the newly unlocked energy is set to boost the US economy and grant Washington newfound leverage around the world.”

Among the determinations Washington must make is whether to overturn a federal law, also dating back to the early ‘70s, that forbids US companies from exporting crude in all but a few circumstances. Full energy independence may still be many years away, but proponents of ending the ban argue it would not only further boost the US economy – fracking added 0.3 per cent to GDP growth last year – but also help America mitigate or even end Opec’s market influence and lessen Russia’s leverage also.

The Russia equation has, thanks to the Crimea crisis, raced to the fore, though it is more about gas from fracking than oil. America will see captured output touch 70 billion cubic feet a day in 2014, reaching over 100 billion cubic feet per day by 2040. In the past days, Bills have been tabled in both houses of Congress demanding that the federal government speed up the granting of licences to companies to export natural gas across the Atlantic precisely to reduce the dependency of Western Europe and Ukraine on Russian supplies................."
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Cap'n Cat »

At a time when there should be cooperative dialogue on how to approach this thing as a NATION, we got ObstructoConks in the background running down the president on the world stage. Especially sad when there is nothing he, we, they can do. :thumbdown:

I ask AGAIN: What would President Romney or President Palin do? And, that senile, back-biting cocksucker, McCain, what would that drunken pussy faux hawk do??

It ain't 1949 anymore, girls.


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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Chizzang »

CID1990 wrote:
Squeeze the oligarchs and they will dump Putin. You know this is true. :nod:
A land war with the Russians is a Military recruiters WET DREAM
We gotta strike while this iron is hot
Like I said - if as a country - we can't drum up a million foot soldiers to fight the Russians we're dead inside

When is an opportunity like this going to happen again
Fight the Russians..!!!
I grew up dreaming about that shit - we made movies about it - it's like porn man seriously
we are dropping the ball here if we let this slip away
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Ibanez »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Squeeze the oligarchs and they will dump Putin. You know this is true. :nod:
A land war with the Russians is a Military recruiters WET DREAM
We gotta strike while this iron is hot
Like I said - if as a country - we can't drum up a million foot soldiers to fight the Russians we're dead inside

When is an opportunity like this going to happen again
Fight the Russians..!!!
I grew up dreaming about that shit - we made movies about it - it's like porn man seriously
we are dropping the ball here if we let this slip away
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Cap'n Cat »

Chizzang wrote:
CID1990 wrote:
Squeeze the oligarchs and they will dump Putin. You know this is true. :nod:
A land war with the Russians is a Military recruiters WET DREAM
We gotta strike while this iron is hot
Like I said - if as a country - we can't drum up a million foot soldiers to fight the Russians we're dead inside

When is an opportunity like this going to happen again
Fight the Russians..!!!
I grew up dreaming about that shit - we made movies about it - it's like porn man seriously
we are dropping the ball here if we let this slip away

:lol: :lol:
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by D1B »

Iba, thanks so much for staying out of this thread, for the most part. There are perhaps 0 people here who know less about history than you.

I cringe when I see your name on a history thread.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by AZGrizFan »

Cap'n Cat wrote:At a time when there should be cooperative dialogue on how to approach this thing as a NATION, we got ObstructoConks in the background running down the president on the world stage. Especially sad when there is nothing he, we, they can do. :thumbdown:

I ask AGAIN: What would President Romney or President Palin do? And, that senile, back-biting cocksucker, McCain, what would that drunken pussy faux hawk do??

It ain't 1949 anymore, girls.


:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
President Romney or McCain wouldn't have ever had to worry about it because they wouldn't have spent 6 years showing the world our ass and kowtowing to every two bit thug on the planet. Obama, on the other hand, has done EXACLTY that, opening the door for Putin to realize that our current emperor has no clothes.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Cap'n Cat »

D1B wrote:Iba, thanks so much for staying out of this thread, for the most part. There are perhaps 0 people here who know less about history than you.

I cringe when I see your name on a history thread.

No he di'nt!!!!

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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by ASUG8 »

Cap'n Cat wrote:At a time when there should be cooperative dialogue on how to approach this thing as a NATION, we got ObstructoConks in the background running down the president on the world stage. Especially sad when there is nothing he, we, they can do. :thumbdown:

I ask AGAIN: What would President Romney or President Palin do? And, that senile, back-biting cocksucker, McCain, what would that drunken pussy faux hawk do??

It ain't 1949 anymore, girls.


:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
What does it matter, Cappy? None of those folks are in office. :coffee:
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by BDKJMU »

Cap'n Cat wrote:At a time when there should be cooperative dialogue on how to approach this thing as a NATION, we got ObstructoConks in the background running down the president on the world stage. Especially sad when there is nothing he, we, they can do. :thumbdown:

I ask AGAIN: What would President Romney or President Palin do? And, that senile, back-biting cocksucker, McCain, what would that drunken pussy faux hawk do??

It ain't 1949 anymore, girls.


:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
Its already been said on here and the other thread, but apparently reading comprehension isn't your forte. No US involvement militarily. 3 things that could be done by a POTUS with a set of balls, which Obama doesn't have:
-Economic sanctions (freezing assets, trade embargoes).
-Sell arms to the Ukraine.
-Flood EU with natty gas.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Ibanez »

D1B wrote:Iba, thanks so much for staying out of this thread, for the most part. There are perhaps 0 people here who know less about history than you.

I cringe when I see your name on a history thread.
Pitiful. You're better than that. Is it a slow day up there? Is your gout acting up? Need some Robitussin?


We should stay out of this "conflict." There isn't anything more to say about it. We don't need to shed any blood or spend any money over there.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Ibanez »

Cap'n Cat wrote:
D1B wrote:Iba, thanks so much for staying out of this thread, for the most part. There are perhaps 0 people here who know less about history than you.

I cringe when I see your name on a history thread.

No he di'nt!!!!

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:popcorn:
He didn't. :coffee:
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Cap'n Cat »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Cap'n Cat wrote:At a time when there should be cooperative dialogue on how to approach this thing as a NATION, we got ObstructoConks in the background running down the president on the world stage. Especially sad when there is nothing he, we, they can do. :thumbdown:

I ask AGAIN: What would President Romney or President Palin do? And, that senile, back-biting cocksucker, McCain, what would that drunken pussy faux hawk do??

It ain't 1949 anymore, girls.


:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
President Romney or McCain wouldn't have ever had to worry about it because they wouldn't have spent 6 years showing the world our ass and kowtowing to every two bit thug on the planet. Obama, on the other hand, has done EXACLTY that, opening the door for Putin to realize that our current emperor has no clothes.

Laughable, Z. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Nice try, though.

Same shit's been going on since the end of WWII. In the nuclear age, there are no options. What did the rest of the world (and China, Russia) do when we invaded Iraq, Afghie, Grenada, etc and bombed the shit out of all those other places? Nothing! Like us, they were powerless.
:roll:

You and your ilk gotta stop with the America Uber Alles shit. It's over. Reagan's dead.
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Re: US, Not Just Obama, Has History of Acquiescence to Russi

Post by Ibanez »

Cap'n Cat wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
President Romney or McCain wouldn't have ever had to worry about it because they wouldn't have spent 6 years showing the world our ass and kowtowing to every two bit thug on the planet. Obama, on the other hand, has done EXACLTY that, opening the door for Putin to realize that our current emperor has no clothes.

Laughable, Z. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Nice try, though.

Same shit's been going on since the end of WWII. In the nuclear age, there are no options. What did the rest of the world (and China, Russia) do when we invaded Iraq, Afghie, Grenada, etc and bombed the shit out of all those other places? Nothing! Like us, they were powerless.
:roll:

You and your ilk gotta stop with the America Uber Alles shit. It's over. Reagan's dead.
When did Ronnie become the Jesus Christ of Republicanism? Surely the GOP can admire better Republicans. :coffee:
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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