US SOCCER

[clenz]

IMO, Soccer (whatever professional organization you want to use) is making an economic mistake by not handling the time differently. I feel as though this is a slap in the face of Americans. One would think that hooking the American fan would be a top priority because of the economic power that American fans, and American corporations, have. But it is as if they are saying "**** You, take it or leave it". It just does not make good business sense if they were trying to grow the sport.

The guy who holds the sign up for additional time can be seated at a table instead and just stop the clock. I can understand if you don't want to stop the clock when a ball goes out of bounds, but stop it when there is someone hurt or if you have a water break. If the ball goes out of bounds, there should be a 10 or 15 second rule for getting it back in, similar to basketball. The ref can simply do a count in his head.

I understand tradition, but I don't understand how this issue can be considered "tradition". Other sports have made major rules changes in an effort to make the game more exciting (DH in baseball, shot clock and 3 point shot in basketball, 2 point play in football, etc.). Handling the clock differently is not nearly as big a change as those.

But if it is the biggest and most popular sport in the world, why make this change to appease a sector where it will never be more than the 4th or 5th biggest sport at best? It doesn't materially change the game like the examples you listed above and would do nothing for the excitement level. Everyone knows what is going on. It's not that big of a deal. Not sure why it is a slap in American's face. Growing up, all American youth leagues play by these rules and we have always been fine with it. Some upper level leagues change the timing in the US we all grow up playing the international way.

As it is now, if there is too much of a delay in getting the ball back in, the ref has the opportunity to give a yellow card and I have seen it happen in the past. Nobody has delayed throwins (or goal kicks) by enough from what I have seen this WC to warrant a yellow.

It sounds like there is starting to be rumblings over the time issue over in Europe (Where the change will have to come from).

I wouldn't be shocked if we saw soccer go to a rugby style clock at some point. Same clock rules, more or less, no stopping, added time, etc..

However, the rugby ref can stop the clock late in the half when he feels a player is doing something to intentionally waste time and what not. Their stoppage also isn't stopped until the attack/play is completely over. This, is something I'd expect to change soon. There's no reason the ref waits for the play to go live again to immediately blow the game over.

I also wouldn't be shocked if a 3rd party ref was put in charge of calculating stoppage time rather than the on field ref.

[89Hen]

You are right. Bradley screwed up bad on that one play and that cost the US the win (in part) but he generally played a good game and was able to control the ball a lot better than he did in the Ghana game (though that was not hard).

I saw at least 3-4 fairly routine passes that he short legged for lack of a better word (didn't put enough pace on them) that resulted in turnovers. I'm a Bradley fan, but his play has been really poor so far IMO.

[89Hen]

Everyone knows what is going on. It's not that big of a deal.

I think that's where the casual fan can't connect. Earlier in the thread when I said there was no honor or fairplay, this is really what I was talking about. To me, it seems like soccer is a constant attempt to cheat. There are guys in the NBA who are great at putting themselves in position to be fouled. But they also actually seem to try to finish the play. Too often in soccer, guys fold like cheap suits when they actually could have continued on. Obviously there are continuation calls, but I'd say a vast majority of "fouls" end up with the victim rolling around like he's been shot.

Every sport has nuances, soccer's are just foreign to most casual fans. In the NHL, refs definiely call the game differently in the playoffs, especially in the third period. I guess the WC is no different in that regard.

Other sports have changed though to combat some of these issues. I'm not sure if you think soccer is above this? Other sports have penalties for delay of game that actually get called. Soccer it's actually a "skill" to see how much time you can waste, because the refs certainly aren't going to do anything about it.

[Skjellyfetti]

the refs certainly aren't going to do anything about it.

there are regularly yellow cards for time wasting in club soccer. i haven't seen many (any?) this world cup and there should be more but, refs do do something about it. they can also add time - as what apparently happened with zusi time-wasting last night.

they also give yellow cards for diving far more often in club soccer. that's been my biggest disappointment with the world cup so far. there have been numerous times a player has dove... the ref has waved it off correctly... but, hasn't pulled out the card.

part of the discrepancy is probably the match ban from 2 yellow cards this round. but, they really need to do it with impunity to get that out of the game.

[GannonFan]

the refs certainly aren't going to do anything about it.

there are regularly yellow cards for time wasting in club soccer. i haven't seen many (any?) this world cup and there should be more but, refs do do something about it. they can also add time - as what apparently happened with zusi time-wasting last night.

they also give yellow cards for diving far more often in club soccer. that's been my biggest disappointment with the world cup so far. there have been numerous times a player has dove... the ref has waved it off correctly... but, hasn't pulled out the card.

part of the discrepancy is probably the match ban from 2 yellow cards this round. but, they really need to do it with impunity to get that out of the game.

The reffing system in the World Cup is always brought into argument. The fact that each country can only send one crew of officials to the World Cup means that you often have crews that hail from countries where the level of play is often low. European countries have been grousing for years on why a crew from countries with no real major soccer league (and hence not a lot of experience) end up officiating a World Cup game. You don't see that in club soccer and hence why diving gets called there more and why you'll see cards for time wasting as well. Heck, I've seen cards in my kids youth soccer games if the ref thinks time's being wasted.

[tribe_pride]

there are regularly yellow cards for time wasting in club soccer. i haven't seen many (any?) this world cup and there should be more but, refs do do something about it. they can also add time - as what apparently happened with zusi time-wasting last night.

they also give yellow cards for diving far more often in club soccer. that's been my biggest disappointment with the world cup so far. there have been numerous times a player has dove... the ref has waved it off correctly... but, hasn't pulled out the card.

part of the discrepancy is probably the match ban from 2 yellow cards this round. but, they really need to do it with impunity to get that out of the game.

The reffing system in the World Cup is always brought into argument. The fact that each country can only send one crew of officials to the World Cup means that you often have crews that hail from countries where the level of play is often low. European countries have been grousing for years on why a crew from countries with no real major soccer league (and hence not a lot of experience) end up officiating a World Cup game. You don't see that in club soccer and hence why diving gets called there more and why you'll see cards for time wasting as well. Heck, I've seen cards in my kids youth soccer games if the ref thinks time's being wasted.

And that is likely why the Japanese ref who did the first game (Brazil-Croatia) has not been assigned to another game. He did a very bad job even though FIFA supported him outwardly on the PK.

There were 25 crews assigned to the World Cup. 40 of the 48 referee assignments have been assigned from what I see. 15 refs have had 2 games and 10 have had only 1 so far.

All 5 South American and all 3 CONCACAF refs have been assigned twice (the MLS ref has done a great job from what I hear).

5 of the 9 European refs have been assigned twice. 1 of the 3 African refs, 1 of the 4 Asian refs, 0 of 1 of the Oceania refs have been assigned to 2 games.

Wouldn't be surprised if 4 of the remaining were to be assigned twice are the European refs which leaves 4 spread out between the 2 African, 3 Asian, and the Oceania ref. Nishimura from Japan must be out so that leaves 1 more spot for the group stage.

Only 8 refs will move on to the round of 16. In 2010, 12 different refs did the Round of 16 and QFs. And 3 of those were selected for the semis and finals. In 2006, 9 different refs did the 12 round of 16 and QFs while only 2 of that group was selected for the Semis and Finals and someone else did one of the other semis.

[93henfan]

You all let me know when they get this shit fixed.

I'm with Flaggy and several of the others. The clock not stopping and counting up is complete bullshit. The faking and diving and bad acting also sucks but that's gonna be harder to stop. Clock issues could be fixed tomorrow if somebody had the balls to just say "do it".

[Skjellyfetti]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

[89Hen]

the refs certainly aren't going to do anything about it.

there are regularly yellow cards for time wasting in club soccer. i haven't seen many (any?) this world cup and there should be more but, refs do do something about it. they can also add time - as what apparently happened with zusi time-wasting last night.

they also give yellow cards for diving far more often in club soccer. that's been my biggest disappointment with the world cup so far. there have been numerous times a player has dove... the ref has waved it off correctly... but, hasn't pulled out the card.

part of the discrepancy is probably the match ban from 2 yellow cards this round. but, they really need to do it with impunity to get that out of the game.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'd love to see more yellow cards for diving and delay (in the WC). That would quickly put an end to a lot of it.

[89Hen]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

Have to agree with the purists on this one, it don't make a lick of difference. It is kinda funny hearing a military guy complain about this at almost 13:00 hours.

[Ibanez]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

Everything should be catered to the convenience of Americans.

[tribe_pride]

there are regularly yellow cards for time wasting in club soccer. i haven't seen many (any?) this world cup and there should be more but, refs do do something about it. they can also add time - as what apparently happened with zusi time-wasting last night.

they also give yellow cards for diving far more often in club soccer. that's been my biggest disappointment with the world cup so far. there have been numerous times a player has dove... the ref has waved it off correctly... but, hasn't pulled out the card.

part of the discrepancy is probably the match ban from 2 yellow cards this round. but, they really need to do it with impunity to get that out of the game.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'd love to see more yellow cards for diving and delay (in the WC). That would quickly put an end to a lot of it.

I think that is one that everyone can agree on. The delay has not been bad in this World Cup but it would put an end to the diving quickly especially with the accumulation rules.

[dbackjon]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

I think for me that doesn't matter- what does matter is the lack of transparency to how and how much time is added, and the arbitrary manner in which it is added - ie none added while Argentina wastes time on a sub, but added in the US game.

That and the lack of replay on goals/fouls.


I have watched parts of a lot of games, but most of only two games - and in both, the refs were too much a factor -- US game, and the Bosnia-Nigeria match.

[bandl]

the refs were too much a factor --

When did we start talking about football instead of futbol?

[clenz]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

I think for me that doesn't matter- what does matter is the lack of transparency to how and how much time is added, and the arbitrary manner in which it is added - ie none added while Argentina wastes time on a sub, but added in the US game.

That and the lack of replay on goals/fouls.


I have watched parts of a lot of games, but most of only two games - and in both, the refs were too much a factor -- US game, and the Bosnia-Nigeria match.

If nothing else a third party ref should be in charge of stoppage time. He actually times what time was wasted and then adjusta for that

[Skjellyfetti]

love the google doodle today

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I watched the game yesterday and came away thinking about how far US soccer has come in the past decade or so. I mean, our kicker guys were at least the equal of the kicker guys from Portugal in every aspect of the game - speed, passing, shooting, metrosexual appearance... all aspects.

[Ivytalk]

love the google doodle today

Because it has a graph?

[89Hen]

I know none of this will change and a lot of people won't give a rats ass what I think, but if I were to change soccer to make it more attractive for the casual observer:

1. Stop the clock on injuries and substitutions, no stoppage time. The halves end at 45:00 and 90:00, not when there is a lull in play and it's just past the stoppage time. Just about every other sport has tinkered with their clock management, why is soccer so stubborn?

2. Change the offsides rule (this has actually been done many times). I'm tempted to say simply do away with offsides, but that's too extreme and even less likely to ever happen. I think my answer would be to make it only offsides if you are in the penalty area. Not a big change, but maybe enough to make a difference. One footnote to this, isn't it technically possible to be offsides on a corner? If so, that's stupid and I'd change that. You should never be "offsides" if the ball is ahead of you.

3. More yellow cards for diving and delay. This is not a rule change, but certainly a change in application. The NHL embellishment rule was a fantastic one and when they started calling it, it did cut down on swan dives. Heck, they even call it in the playoffs including the SC finals.

If you've read this thread, you see the same complaints coming up over and over from us casual observers. Take it FWIW, or don't.

[89Hen]

I think for me that doesn't matter- what does matter is the lack of transparency to how and how much time is added, and the arbitrary manner in which it is added - ie none added while Argentina wastes time on a sub, but added in the US game.

That and the lack of replay on goals/fouls.


I have watched parts of a lot of games, but most of only two games - and in both, the refs were too much a factor -- US game, and the Bosnia-Nigeria match.

If nothing else a third party ref should be in charge of stoppage time. He actually times what time was wasted and then adjusta for that

Why not just stop the clock? You really want games to end at 94:17 on the button?

[bandl]

I know none of this will change and a lot of people won't give a rats ass what I think, but if I were to change soccer to make it more attractive for the casual observer:

1. Stop the clock on injuries and substitutions, no stoppage time. The halves end at 45:00 and 90:00, not when there is a lull in play and it's just past the stoppage time. Just about every other sport has tinkered with their clock management, why is soccer so stubborn?

2. Change the offsides rule (this has actually been done many times). I'm tempted to say simply do away with offsides, but that's too extreme and even less likely to ever happen. I think my answer would be to make it only offsides if you are in the penalty area. Not a big change, but maybe enough to make a difference. One footnote to this, isn't it technically possible to be offsides on a corner? If so, that's stupid and I'd change that. You should never be "offsides" if the ball is ahead of you.

3. More yellow cards for diving and delay. This is not a rule change, but certainly a change in application. The NHL embellishment rule was a fantastic one and when they started calling it, it did cut down on swan dives. Heck, they even call it in the playoffs including the SC finals.

If you've read this thread, you see the same complaints coming up over and over from us casual observers. Take it FWIW, or don't.

I agree with these 3. However, I'd like the offsides to be more like hockey. A 'blue line' halfway between the mid-line and top of the penalty box. No offsides once the ball and players are past that line.

[MSUDuo]

I know none of this will change and a lot of people won't give a rats ass what I think, but if I were to change soccer to make it more attractive for the casual observer:

1. Stop the clock on injuries and substitutions, no stoppage time. The halves end at 45:00 and 90:00, not when there is a lull in play and it's just past the stoppage time. Just about every other sport has tinkered with their clock management, why is soccer so stubborn?

2. Change the offsides rule (this has actually been done many times). I'm tempted to say simply do away with offsides, but that's too extreme and even less likely to ever happen. I think my answer would be to make it only offsides if you are in the penalty area. Not a big change, but maybe enough to make a difference. One footnote to this, isn't it technically possible to be offsides on a corner? If so, that's stupid and I'd change that. You should never be "offsides" if the ball is ahead of you.

3. More yellow cards for diving and delay. This is not a rule change, but certainly a change in application. The NHL embellishment rule was a fantastic one and when they started calling it, it did cut down on swan dives. Heck, they even call it in the playoffs including the SC finals.

If you've read this thread, you see the same complaints coming up over and over from us casual observers. Take it FWIW, or don't.

Well, if you're standing on the goal line and the ball is on the outside of the corner arc, the ball isn't ahead of you. However, very rarely do you not see a defender not sitting on the goal line as well which negates everything.

[89Hen]

I agree with these 3. However, I'd like the offsides to be more like hockey. A 'blue line' halfway between the mid-line and top of the penalty box. No offsides once the ball and players are past that line.

I've thought about that too, but I think one of the problems for hockey for the casual viewer is the confusion over all the lines. BTW, what is the arc at the top of the penalty area for anyway??

[93henfan]

Honestly, what difference does it make whether the fucking clock counts up or down?

Everything should be catered to the convenience of Americans.

Fuckin' A right, my nigga!

[Skjellyfetti]

I agree with these 3. However, I'd like the offsides to be more like hockey. A 'blue line' halfway between the mid-line and top of the penalty box. No offsides once the ball and players are past that line.

I've thought about that too, but I think one of the problems for hockey for the casual viewer is the confusion over all the lines. BTW, what is the arc at the top of the penalty area for anyway??

line the players have to stay out of on a penalty kick