Serious question to Gay Marriage Opponents

[JayJ79]

I am in big trouble, I have lived in sin w/3 different women!

If you done it at the same time, you might be eligible to join the mormon church

Or you'll just be called Heff.

[Ibanez]

I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. It is that simple. I know gay people and I have nothing against them. I just believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

As a Catholic, I believe marriage is between a man and a woman in love to --->create<--- a living being. Strong EMPHASIS on CREATE.

So why can't Jon and Alex(for example) have the same legal rights as a married man and woman? What makes you better than them?

[Ibanez]

So would everyone be happy if the term marriage is reserved for the religious joining of a man and a woman, and the term Civil Union is the legal and recognized description of two people regardless of what sex they are?

I think so. Religion had nothing to do with my marriage. We don't plan on having kids so according to the Catholic Church, we shouldn't be married. And before you Catholics try to say something remember you're talking to a former Catholic that not only attended Catholic School, but was a strong believer until the age of 20 and studied all religions including Catholicism. I don't single out people, but every Church has its faults, misconceptions and biases which at the moment that say a person is wrong(like ssm), loses all credit for their judgmental ways.

[SeattleGriz]

Let's turn this around a little, because the conversation has become a little pigeonholed (no pun intended).

How does gay marriage promote family?

Of the posters on this board who are gay, how did your family take it when you told them you were gay? Do both partners families participate in holiday activities together? Did you feel as if you united two families when you found your partner? Do you believe marriage will do this?

These questions are the crux of why most people don't wan't gay marriage.

My point in asking these questions? If some families won't accept their own children who are gay, what chance do gays have with the straight public? Everyone on here sees that every time there is a state vote to allow gays to get married, it gets closer to a majority approval. While it doesn't help now, it eventually will get passed and by a majority, just give it time.

[JayJ79]

How does gay marriage promote family?

Of the posters on this board who are gay, how did your family take it when you told them you were gay? Do both partners families participate in holiday activities together? Did you feel as if you united two families when you found your partner? Do you believe marriage will do this?

It's a (somewhat) binding statement of commitment to one another and monogamy (usually). Which "promotes family" just as much as straight marriages.

Besides, there are plenty of hetero marriages where the partners families aren't all that united. Hence why many people always get a somewhat sour look on their face when talking about their "in laws"

[SeattleGriz]

How does gay marriage promote family?

Of the posters on this board who are gay, how did your family take it when you told them you were gay? Do both partners families participate in holiday activities together? Did you feel as if you united two families when you found your partner? Do you believe marriage will do this?

It's a (somewhat) binding statement of commitment to one another and monogamy (usually). Which "promotes family" just as much as straight marriages.

Besides, there are plenty of hetero marriages where the partners families aren't all that united. Hence why many people always get a somewhat sour look on their face when talking about their "in laws"

Yes, there are plenty of heteros that have crappy inlaws. But, if the heteros want, they may start a family of their own by procreation. That is not a prerequisite in my mind for either type of marriage, just pointing out that homosexuals generally don't have that option.

Once again, it is the promotion of family that most opponents are citing.

[griz37]

It's a (somewhat) binding statement of commitment to one another and monogamy (usually). Which "promotes family" just as much as straight marriages.

Besides, there are plenty of hetero marriages where the partners families aren't all that united. Hence why many people always get a somewhat sour look on their face when talking about their "in laws"

Yes, there are plenty of heteros that have crappy inlaws. But, if the heteros want, they may start a family of their own by procreation. That is not a prerequisite in my mind for either type of marriage, just pointing out that homosexuals generally don't have that option.

Once again, it is the promotion of family that most opponents are citing.

Who said family is such a great thing anyway? I have a great family & love them dearly, but my wife got shit on in the family department. She has a great brother but her parents do nothing but cause stress in our lives & act like 7 year old drama queens who kick & scream when they don't get what they want, therefore they are out of our lives. That is where the gay marriage opponents are dead wrong in thinking that just because you are straight you will make a better parent, partner or citizen. I have no doubt in my mind that if Dback & his partner chose to have a child they would make better parents than my in-laws.

[dbackjon]

In all three of my relationships that I have had, Family has been very important. And isn't a couple a family?



One of the overlooked areas when people are criticizing gay pride festivals is that every one that I have been too has had a children's area - lots of gay and lesbian couples have kids, many adopted. And many gay/lesbian couples (especially lesbians) seem drawn to adopt special needs kids - I guess a sense of kinship exists.

[SeattleGriz]

Who said family is such a great thing anyway? I have a great family & love them dearly, but my wife got **** on in the family department. She has a great brother but her parents do nothing but cause stress in our lives & act like 7 year old drama queens who kick & scream when they don't get what they want, therefore they are out of our lives. That is where the gay marriage opponents are dead wrong in thinking that just because you are straight you will make a better parent, partner or citizen. I have no doubt in my mind that if Dback & his partner chose to have a child they would make better parents than my in-laws.

I don't doubt that there are plenty of opponents that say such things, just as there are plenty of people who give the lame, "The Bible says so". We have a full house of people in America who say stupid stuff without any sort of proof.

My point 37, is that family is the reason why most people are against same sex marriage. They don't believe same sex promotes family like hetero marriage.

As to Dback and his partner, I don't doubt they would be great parents. My brother is the perfect example of a hetero that shouldn't have had a child. In fact, his kid is the one reason I don't like to visit him anymore. Everytime I visit and his son is there, I play babysitter and have to be the disciplinarian. My brother is oblivious as to what makes a decent parent.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

My point 37, is that family is the reason why most people are against same sex marriage. They don't believe same sex promotes family like hetero marriage.

I normally only deal in concepts on these type of issues and I'm almost never on the side of denying someone rights that others have. Family is not the reason that most people are against gay marriage in my mind. As was put forth earlier there are many couples that get married in spite of the fact that they have no intentions of starting a family and they do so with no opposition from the group that wants to say they are against it for that reason. What fucking business is it of any of ours if someone does or does not want to start their own family? Can you imagine how quickly this shit would be shot down in the courts if the right for heteros to marry suddenly hinged on this caveat?

On the second sentence that you put forward SeaGriz i don't understand how people can make any assertions about what they believe based on something that we have never had any kind of proof on. How can you believe something that has never been tried and then use what you think might happen as the basis for it? What we do know is that homos go through all the same trials and problems, and joy that heteros go through and that they stay together at about the same rate that heteros do. If you know that without actually testing the theory then how could you come up with any other conclusion for your belief than the result would probably be very similar?

I know that you are only putting out the counterpoints there Dana for discussion so I don't want you to think that I'm aiming that at you. Just chipping away at the debate topic.

[SeattleGriz]

My point 37, is that family is the reason why most people are against same sex marriage. They don't believe same sex promotes family like hetero marriage.

I normally only deal in concepts on these type of issues and I'm almost never on the side of denying someone rights that others have. Family is not the reason that most people are against gay marriage in my mind. As was put forth earlier there are many couples that get married in spite of the fact that they have no intentions of starting a family and they do so with no opposition from the group that wants to say they are against it for that reason. What **** business is it of any of ours if someone does or does not want to start their own family? Can you imagine how quickly this **** would be shot down in the courts if the right for heteros to marry suddenly hinged on this caveat?

On the second sentence that you put forward SeaGriz i don't understand how people can make any assertions about what they believe based on something that we have never had any kind of proof on. How can you believe something that has never been tried and then use what you think might happen as the basis for it? What we do know is that homos go through all the same trials and problems, and joy that heteros go through and that they stay together at about the same rate that heteros do. If you know that without actually testing the theory then how could you come up with any other conclusion for your belief than the result would probably be very similar?

I know that you are only putting out the counterpoints there Dana for discussion so I don't want you to think that I'm aiming that at you. Just chipping away at the debate topic.

No worries.

In regards to your first point that you don't believe family is the reason for opposition, I didn't mean rearing children was required to create family, as much as the total family gain by marriage (children, spouse and both families). Two people who have the full support of their families.

On your second point, I believe many are using statistics to base their belief. I will say this aspect of the debate is pretty frustrating. You go to a site, only to see it is discredited by another site only to see that site discredited.

If you don't believe family is the crux, then what is? I have always been on the periphery for this discussion so it has been interesting to read.

[UNHWildCats]

It's a (somewhat) binding statement of commitment to one another and monogamy (usually). Which "promotes family" just as much as straight marriages.

Besides, there are plenty of hetero marriages where the partners families aren't all that united. Hence why many people always get a somewhat sour look on their face when talking about their "in laws"

Yes, there are plenty of heteros that have crappy inlaws. But, if the heteros want, they may start a family of their own by procreation. That is not a prerequisite in my mind for either type of marriage, just pointing out that homosexuals generally don't have that option.

Once again, it is the promotion of family that most opponents are citing.

And a same sex couple can start a family by adopting one of the millions of unwanted children around the world.

[dbackjon]

Yes, there are plenty of heteros that have crappy inlaws. But, if the heteros want, they may start a family of their own by procreation. That is not a prerequisite in my mind for either type of marriage, just pointing out that homosexuals generally don't have that option.

Once again, it is the promotion of family that most opponents are citing.

And a same sex couple can start a family by adopting one of the millions of unwanted children around the world.

Ironically, pretty much all of the gay marriage opponents tend to be anti-choice, and anti-gay adoption. They want women to have babies they don't want "Just put them up for adoption", but at the same time, work to limit the pool of those that CAN adopt.

Bunch of hypocrites.

[wkuhillhound]

Parasitic "christians" really piss me off! They would rather leave children homeless than have be in a loving family just disgusting to me.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

My godmother was a single parent for many years... married several times to men "trying to make it work"... she came out when I was 14 and her partner became a second parent for my cousin... a second parent she really needed. it was then that i became convinced of the value of two parent families... and that quite frankly, gender didn't matter... two loving parents mattered.

quite frankly, i agree with travis and jon on this... there are so many unwanted and neglected children in this world, and these couples have love to give... sounds like a wonderful match if you ask me.

a lot of the objections seem to come from people who 1) dont know any gay folks other than what they see in media. 2) they seem to believe the tired old canard about how somehow gays are all pedophiles... to be honest, there may not be one prejudice-based presumption that sets my blood to boil faster.

for me... i'm in favor of monogamy, two parent families (where possible), and a stable home life for kids... and if gay couples can provide it (which i know they can) than they should be parents... since there are plenty of straights with kids that dont fit that description at all...

[ASUMountaineer]

As a Christian, I think it's a shame we allow the government to decide who can and cannot get married. I know, especially Dback--will think "here we go again." But, a fact is a fact. If you believe marriage is an inalienable right, government has NO RIGHT to decide who can and cannot get married. Government should not be involved one iota. Until people (especially liberals and gay marriage advocates) realize it's the government that's keeping gays from getting married, we can start working towards true equality--which is more personal freedom.

I don't care if gay people want to marry, do what you do. What people can't seem to realize is, you can still disagree with gay marriage and support more personal freedom.

[SeattleGriz]

And a same sex couple can start a family by adopting one of the millions of unwanted children around the world.

Ironically, pretty much all of the gay marriage opponents tend to be anti-choice, and anti-gay adoption. They want women to have babies they don't want "Just put them up for adoption", but at the same time, work to limit the pool of those that CAN adopt.

Bunch of hypocrites.

I agree with you there Dback. If you're not providing a good home for a child up for adoption, quit yer bitchin when one is provided.