UPDATED! Judge Cuts Water To CA:Farmers to Lose $1.5 Billion

[Appaholic]

Can hydroponics produce more per "acre" than conventional? Yes. Can hydroponic methods allow greater control that results in superior product? In most cases, yes. Can hydroponics eliminate conventional farming (i.e., water management)? Absolutely not.

Correct in the east where rainfall is steady and plentiful. But in the west, those costs typically do not reflect the price of water delivery...the REAL cost of delivering the water, not the subsidized cost provided to them courtesy of urban taxpayer. Would be interesting to see those figures, especially with the increase costs in energy.....

[travelinman67]

An update on the severity of the problem...

...jobs lost now projected between 60,000 and 80,000. Ag cities Mendota and Firebaugh are virtually shutting down. Losses originally estimated to be around $1.5 Billion, have risen to around $1.8 Billion.

Here a good synopsis news report...
[youtube][/youtube]

[travelinman67]

But there's too much at stake for the State and Farmers to take this lying down.

First, the State acts to challenge the DWR's data about the Delta Smelt, mitigation efforts, and the validity of the "Endangered" categorization...

Calif. officials fighting federal protections for tiny Delta fish as state's water problems persist

By MATT WEISER
Saturday, 05.09.09

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/environ ... 40477.html

SACRAMENTO, Calif. -- California water officials are fighting back against federal protections for an iconic Delta fish, a tactical shift that threatens to derail a cooperative attempt to fix the state's water problems.

In a petition filed with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Thursday, the California Department of Water Resources argues rules should be changed because new research suggests a separate group of threatened Delta smelt has taken refuge on Liberty Island and is unaffected by water operations.

If successful, the state would avoid future releases of hundreds of thousands of acre-feet of water for the benefit of the tiny fish - water that could otherwise meet needs of users throughout California...

...The federal rules, called a biological opinion, govern water management in the Sacramento-San Joaquin Delta to prevent smelt from being killed in water export pumps. The rules were revised six months ago in response to a lawsuit by environmental groups.

DWR objects to a particular fall condition that could require as much as 400,000 acre-feet of water to be released from its Oroville Reservoir to create downstream flows beneficial to smelt. That's enough water to serve 1 million households for a year.

"The water supply impacts to us are dramatic," Johns said. "We think this idea of creating habitat is a much more effective way to address the Delta smelt issue than throwing a bunch of water at it."

The fall rule won't affect water supplies this year. It only applies in a fall season following a wetter-than-normal winter - expected in one of five years...

Next, water right holders meet with the environmental concern litigants, and SURPRISE!!!!!...both sides agree the existing situation cannot be allowed to continue...and FURTHER...THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS ARE NOT OPPOSED TO CONSTRUCTION OF A PERIPHERAL CANAL WHICH WOULD RESOLVE THE SMELT ISSUE...

Environmental groups meet with state ag board

May 6, 2009
By Christine Souza

http://www.cfbf.com/agalert/AgAlertStor ... 0FDA878AF1

Participating organizations, including Audubon California, the Bay Institute, Ducks Unlimited, Environmental Defense Fund, Natural Heritage Institute and the Yosemite Association, weighed in about the importance of preserving wildlife and agriculture and having a healthy water system for California.

"We do believe that it is possible to provide sufficient freshwater flows to these critical species and sufficient water for thriving urban and agricultural economies, but some changes in water use and water policy are required for that to occur," said Laura Harnish, Environmental Defense Fund regional director. "We are excruciatingly aware of the economic hardships being experienced now in the Central Valley due to greatly reduced water allocations and other economic stressors and we're very interested in exploring how we can avoid this type of hardship in the future."...

...CDFA board member Marvin Meyers of Firebaugh provided several examples of how the regulatory drought is impacting Westside farmers, such as the cost of water and how farmers are simply unable to pass on those costs.

"It used to cost $1,500 an acre to grow a crop of almonds in any given year and now our costs are $3,300 an acre and half of it is for water," Meyers said. "Are we in a new era that water is going to cost that kind of money forever? If we are, then I don't see how ag can recover in the Central Valley. The consumer won't pay the kind of money it costs to grow a crop. You'll be paying $3 for a head of lettuce. Obviously row crop guys are thinking, 'we are history in the Central Valley.'" ...

...Environmental groups were questioned whether a peripheral canal or new surface storage would solve the water issues felt by agriculture and wildlife. Thomas supported the idea of a peripheral canal, saying operating the delta as a dual-purpose system with the current conveyance would not work.

"We need more flexibility and that means peripheral canal," Thomas said.

Other groups felt it did not go far enough...

...David Guy, CEO of The Yosemite Association, also discussed the benefits of setting aside differences and working to achieve a common goal.

"The agricultural and the environmental communities have been together in a lot of areas and we tend to, by nature, focus on areas that are dividing, but let's not lose sight of all of those areas where there have been alliances," Guy said. "It is important to build on that culture of stewardship, but the key of course is the economic viability. Without that, stewardship will get lost."

BUT..., in comes the obstructionists. Landholders whose properties will be effected by the canal's construction (most of whom are over-the-hill old-money landholders whose concerns vacillate between their overseas account bank balances and taking their geriatric prostate health medication)...

Delta landowners say no to peripheral canal survey

By Matt Weiser
Thursday, May. 7, 2009

http://www.sacbee.com/government/story/1840673.html

Three dozen property owners in the Delta have refused to let researchers from the California Department of Water Resources onto their land to study soil properties and environmental conditions. As a result, state Attorney General Jerry Brown has petitioned the courts in Contra Costa, Solano, Yolo, San Joaquin and Sacramento counties to enforce access on DWR's behalf.

Property owners oppose the terms of access sought by DWR. But perhaps more importantly, they're challenging the validity of the project itself, claiming the state doesn't have authority yet to study a canal.

"We don't think they're proceeding legally," said Dante Nomellini Sr., a Stockton attorney representing a number of property owners. "We want to get those (questions) framed in these legal actions regardless of the outcome by the court in terms of access."

A Delta canal is drawing renewed interest as a means of addressing environmental and water security problems affecting the entire state.

SMFH...

Once again, the lawyers and the bureaucrats gain job security, while tens of thousands lose their jobs and entire industry's are wiped out.

When will it stop?

[D1B]

Good, fvck Cali Mega Farms. They're massive polluters and their veggies suck.

Here's what you can do to put these welfare whore California farmers out of business:

Ask your local grocery stores to buy and label locally grown produce, then buy it. That 10 pound bag of mega farm carrots travels thousands of miles before it reaches your grocery store.

Buy more organic foods. They're better tasting and healthy. Organic farmers are generally better stewards of their land.

Join a CSA or local food coop. You'll know exactly how and where your food is grown. Many now offer organic grains, dry beans, eggs, cheeses and meats.

Quit eating like fvcking pigs. Restaurant food comes from the pollution factories of California. California produce is loaded with pesticides, pollution and ecoli. Now they want the ability to irradiate produce thus making it even a lesser motivation to be sanitary. A mexican can take a shit on a cauliflower, irradiate it and it will be safe, but of course taste like shit.

California produce sucks, buy local and organic and put these mega assholes out of business.

[Appaholic]

If Cali Agri business is such viable and robust business, why is it failing without massive government entitlement programs and subsidies? Where is the free-market?

At one time, there was a hue and cry to save the jobs of buggy-whip manufacturers............

[D1B]

If Cali Agri business is such viable and robust business, why is it failing without massive government entitlement programs and subsidies? Where is the free-market?

At one time, there was a hue and cry to save the jobs of buggy-whip manufacturers............

Exactly, and the tens of thousands of jobs lost? How many of em are migrant farm workers? So not only does Cali Mega Farming heavily rely on Goverment hand outs, it also relies on slave/immigrant labor. Most of those workers send and spend their money in Mexico.

Folks, find a local food coop near you and support it. You'll be saving the environment, you'll eat healthy foods, and you'll be saving tax dollars.

[Cap'n Cat]

If Cali Agri business is such viable and robust business, why is it failing without massive government entitlement programs and subsidies? Where is the free-market?

At one time, there was a hue and cry to save the jobs of buggy-whip manufacturers............

Exactly, and the tens of thousands of jobs lost? How many of em are migrant farm workers? So not only does Cali Mega Farming heavily rely on Goverment hand outs, it also relies on slave/immigrant labor. Most of those workers send and spend their money in Mexico.

Folks, find a local food coop near you and support it. You'll be saving the environment, you'll eat healthy foods, and you'll be saving tax dollars.

Reppies.

[AZGrizFan]

Good, fvck Cali Mega Farms. They're massive polluters and their veggies suck.

Here's what you can do to put these welfare whore California farmers out of business:

Ask your local grocery stores to buy and label locally grown produce, then buy it. That 10 pound bag of mega farm carrots travels thousands of miles before it reaches your grocery store.

Buy more organic foods. They're better tasting and healthy. Organic farmers are generally better stewards of their land.

Join a CSA or local food coop. You'll know exactly how and where your food is grown. Many now offer organic grains, dry beans, eggs, cheeses and meats.

Quit eating like fvcking pigs. Restaurant food comes from the pollution factories of California. California produce is loaded with pesticides, pollution and ecoli. Now they want the ability to irradiate produce thus making it even a lesser motivation to be sanitary. A mexican can take a shit on a cauliflower, irradiate it and it will be safe, but of course taste like shit.

California produce sucks, buy local and organic and put these mega assholes out of business.

Yeah, what Ted said. Because those 80,000 people in those farm communities got NO right to work!!!

[Cap'n Cat]

Good, fvck Cali Mega Farms. They're massive polluters and their veggies suck.

Here's what you can do to put these welfare whore California farmers out of business:

Ask your local grocery stores to buy and label locally grown produce, then buy it. That 10 pound bag of mega farm carrots travels thousands of miles before it reaches your grocery store.

Buy more organic foods. They're better tasting and healthy. Organic farmers are generally better stewards of their land.

Join a CSA or local food coop. You'll know exactly how and where your food is grown. Many now offer organic grains, dry beans, eggs, cheeses and meats.

Quit eating like fvcking pigs. Restaurant food comes from the pollution factories of California. California produce is loaded with pesticides, pollution and ecoli. Now they want the ability to irradiate produce thus making it even a lesser motivation to be sanitary. A mexican can take a shit on a cauliflower, irradiate it and it will be safe, but of course taste like shit.

California produce sucks, buy local and organic and put these mega assholes out of business.

Yeah, what Ted said. Because those 80,000 people in those farm communities got NO right to work!!!

They're in outdated fields! Broccoli farming is so yesteryear. Go back to school! Get an education. Sheeit, you can do it and live off the government tittie for a while!

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, what Ted said. Because those 80,000 people in those farm communities got NO right to work!!!

They're in outdated fields! Broccoli farming is so yesteryear. Go back to school! Get an education. Sheeit, you can do it and live off the government tittie for a while!

There ya go. If they hold on long enough, hell the gubmint will probably PAY them NOT to farm.

[Appaholic]

They're in outdated fields! Broccoli farming is so yesteryear. Go back to school! Get an education. Sheeit, you can do it and live off the government tittie for a while!

There ya go. If they hold on long enough, hell the gubmint will probably PAY them NOT to farm.

They already pay east coast farmers not to farm so there is more justification for central valley farms which obviously require government subsidized water which require government pork barrel water projects....see, everyone gets paid by the gubmint...it's a great plan....

[Cap'n Cat]

They're in outdated fields! Broccoli farming is so yesteryear. Go back to school! Get an education. Sheeit, you can do it and live off the government tittie for a while!

There ya go. If they hold on long enough, hell the gubmint will probably PAY them NOT to farm.

Hey, I don't disagree, but, for lack of anything better, it's a necessary evil.

Suggestions for farmers?

[AZGrizFan]

There ya go. If they hold on long enough, hell the gubmint will probably PAY them NOT to farm.

They already pay east coast farmers not to farm so there is more justification for central valley farms which obviously require government subsidized water which require government pork barrel water projects....see, everyone gets paid by the gubmint...it's a great plan....

I'm still waiting for my check...musta gotten lost in the mail....

[Appaholic]

Yeah, what Ted said. Because those 80,000 people in those farm communities got NO right to work!!!

Exactly....no more a right to work than a right to healthcare....

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, what Ted said. Because those 80,000 people in those farm communities got NO right to work!!!

Exactly....no more a right to work than a right to healthcare....

Except they're in Kalifornia. Where EVERYTHING is a right.

[Appaholic]

Exactly....no more a right to work than a right to healthcare....

Except they're in Kalifornia. Where EVERYTHING is a right.

If it makes a buck it is.....according to TMan....

[travelinman67]

Blurp!!

Fibz!

GA-RABAWABA!!!

Sources, or STFU...

[travelinman67]

Exactly....no more a right to work than a right to healthcare....

Except they're in Kalifornia. Where EVERYTHING is a right.

Central Valley farming has been a well established industry, dating back to the early 1800's. Originally, farmers build their own reservoirs to store seasonal rain (surface) water, and drew what they needed from natural surface water sources.
It wasn't until 1933, that the foundation for the Central Valley Project was formed for the purpose of equitably distributing Northern California surface water.
These farms were around LONG BEFORE the major population centers which brought with it seemingly endless demands for surface water.

Yet, somehow, the boardtards equate this water distribution as "feeding from the government tit"????

But for the government's decision to take control of surface water distribution, California farmers WOULDN'T be in the position they now face: Industry collapse.

What's remarkable is that at least half of the anti-industry environmental groups who are aware of the severity of this decision, HAVE OPENLY VOICED THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE DECISION...EVEN WHEN CONFRONTED WITH THE RESULTING MASSIVE JOB LOSS.

If Karma holds true, those same tree-huggers will someday be faced with the loss of their job, and their personal economic destruction at the hands of a cavalier, bureaucratically sadistic, no'er do well.

[Cap'n Cat]

Blurp!!

Fibz!

GA-RABAWABA!!!

Sources, or STFU...

Unlike you, D, Appy and I are confident in our opinions. You still need anotated support for yours like a college freshman? Good for you.

Let us know when you wanna play with the big boys. We'll be on the water pipe in Other Sports.

[travelinman67]

Sources, or STFU...

Unlike you, D, Appy and I are confident in our opinions. You still need anotated support for yours like a college freshman? Good for you.

Let us know when you wanna play with the big boys. We'll be on the water pipe in Other Sports.

SMFH...

You remind me of a 15 year old who thinks they know everything, yet knows so little...

None of what was said by any three of you is based upon anything approaching reality. You're really starting to sound like a trio of Area 51 psychos.

[Appaholic]

Except they're in Kalifornia. Where EVERYTHING is a right.

Central Valley farming has been a well established industry, dating back to the early 1800's. Originally, farmers build their own reservoirs to store seasonal rain (surface) water, and drew what they needed from natural surface water sources.
It wasn't until 1933, that the foundation for the Central Valley Project was formed for the purpose of equitably distributing Northern California surface water.
These farms were around LONG BEFORE the major population centers which brought with it seemingly endless demands for surface water.

Yet, somehow, the boardtards equate this water distribution as "feeding from the government tit"????

But for the government's decision to take control of surface water distribution, California farmers WOULDN'T be in the position they now face: Industry collapse.

What's remarkable is that at least half of the anti-industry environmental groups who are aware of the severity of this decision, HAVE OPENLY VOICED THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE DECISION...EVEN WHEN CONFRONTED WITH THE RESULTING MASSIVE JOB LOSS.

If Karma holds true, those same tree-huggers will someday be faced with the loss of their job, and their personal economic destruction at the hands of a cavalier, bureaucratically sadistic, no'er do well.

Were it not for the urban population being available to help pay the exorbitant costs associated with transporting said surface water, the valley farmers would have faced ruinmation decades ago after over-pumping the groundwater....please T, I expect more than an attempot to tug on the heartstrings of the ignorant for the oppressed everyman farmer from you....

[D1B]

Except they're in Kalifornia. Where EVERYTHING is a right.

Central Valley farming has been a well established industry, dating back to the early 1800's. Originally, farmers build their own reservoirs to store seasonal rain (surface) water, and drew what they needed from natural surface water sources.
It wasn't until 1933, that the foundation for the Central Valley Project was formed for the purpose of equitably distributing Northern California surface water.
These farms were around LONG BEFORE the major population centers which brought with it seemingly endless demands for surface water.

Yet, somehow, the boardtards equate this water distribution as "feeding from the government tit"????

But for the government's decision to take control of surface water distribution, California farmers WOULDN'T be in the position they now face: Industry collapse.

What's remarkable is that at least half of the anti-industry environmental groups who are aware of the severity of this decision, HAVE OPENLY VOICED THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE DECISION...EVEN WHEN CONFRONTED WITH THE RESULTING MASSIVE JOB LOSS.

If Karma holds true, those same tree-huggers will someday be faced with the loss of their job, and their personal economic destruction at the hands of a cavalier, bureaucratically sadistic, no'er do well.

Tman, your Kalifornia mega farms can go to hell.

Plant weed and continue making fine wine. We'll handle our own veggies and corn....

[Cap'n Cat]

Unlike you, D, Appy and I are confident in our opinions. You still need anotated support for yours like a college freshman? Good for you.

Let us know when you wanna play with the big boys. We'll be on the water pipe in Other Sports.

SMFH...

You remind me of a 15 year old who thinks they know everything, yet knows so little...

None of what was said by any three of you is based upon anything approaching reality. You're really starting to sound like a trio of Area 51 psychos.

Says the guy with the 51 inch posts no one reads!

[travelinman67]

Were it not for the urban population being available to help pay the exorbitant costs associated with transporting said surface water, the valley farmers would have faced ruinmation decades ago after over-pumping the groundwater....

Hmm...so, you're saying that farmers should bear the burden of the infrastructure that supports their industry, and urban areas pay for only the infrastructure THEY use.

And since the farmers don't use all the high density infrastructures required to support urban density, they'll then be able to afford to pay for the water delivery systems.

Works for me!

[Appaholic]

Were it not for the urban population being available to help pay the exorbitant costs associated with transporting said surface water, the valley farmers would have faced ruinmation decades ago after over-pumping the groundwater....

Hmm...so, you're saying that farmers should bear the burden of the infrastructure that supports their industry, and urban areas pay for only the infrastructure THEY use.

And since the farmers don't use all the high density infrastructures required to support urban density, they'll then be able to afford to pay for the water delivery systems.

Works for me!

What I'm saying is the kalifornia political whores were able to sell these outrageous & unsustainable water delivery projects based upon the urban dwellers ability to pay, not the farmers. Urban people have to have water, especially to support the rate of growth Kali cities were experiencing and trying to achieve in the first part of the 20th century. However, the central valley did not have to be world's bread basket....at least not through socialist public works projects that were a windfall to kali politicians and agri-corps, but to the detriment of farming in sustainable environments with no need for water delivery systems located throughout the midwest and southeast.